Gran Turismo Car Models Now Made in Three Months, Outsourced to India

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 7' started by GTPNewsWire, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. TBR 427

    TBR 427

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    The key point there is that we have confirmation that only the mid-poly work was done, if I'm reading that right.


    Typically it makes financial and practical sense under these two conditions:
    1: You're a small enough company to not justify hiring/funding/training a modelling/art dept full-time.
    2: You're a large company that experiences large fluctuations in asset requirements / staff numbers as you go through cycles of projects.

    For a company like PD, who...just makes GT games, always has need of a full-strength art dept, has no reason to idle/lay off the art dept.
    This has to be a financial decision - cheaper assets elsewhere might save management some bux. Though 3d modellers aren't that expensive as game-devs go? I can't see this being a smart idea long-term. What's japanese for Executive Department Manager Karen?

    You...can't think of any reason why outsourcing had negativity spewed towards it in the past?

    So if this is the case, and I think it is, you're right about this being low-risk. If PD supplies the scans and hi-poly or tesselation-ready meshes, that means two things:
    The vast potential for inaccuracy is gone - they can overlay their mid-poly with PD's hipoly and if it lines up, then it's accurate.
    The outsourced models aren't being used for the up-close beauty shots, so they won't be under high scrutiny.

    Not to GT quality.

    And strictly speaking a designer wouldn't be doing modelling, since that's the modelers job.
    A lot of people think that 3d scanning gives perfect models. Perfect in that the overall shape is good, but the mesh itself is often complete garbage.
    Comparing to full CAD models would be really easy (if you had a machine that could load a >100GB car model, lol). Easiest would be the interior - not only would every bevel and fillet on every switch knob and dial be perfectly shaped, but the materials for seats/stitching would be garbage!

    Too easy.
    F7_GTS_Mcl650.png
    Not even sure if it's (F7) outsourced.


    Having things work with subdivision/tesselation is a special pain in the backside, especially when you've got things like fuel fillers, door seams and other panel gaps to deal with. Often there's just no good clean solution, especially if those idiot car designers put curved seams/gaps in the middle of my nice clean surfaces. :(

    Probably because nobody used the S660 or Tundra for more than 5 minutes in the Beginner Events. And if the only time you see the outsourced models for the 911 is in a race and the car's between 10 and 50m away from you....
     
  2. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    It's literally not even about what is best because we only know a handful from one game. It makes absolutely no sense for you to even try to spin it this way. It's going to turn this way because of people like you, that's it. It's literally just showing that outsourcing is a viable plan to go forward with because it'll only help and very likely wont detract from anything. That you can't comprehend that, again, isn't anyone else's issue than your own. You're the only one making an "endless argument" about it like that so far. If you want to misconceive the situation, and if it's an issue for you, then remove yourself and let everyone have their discussion.

    I think you missed the point, in the past it wasn't mixed opinions of it being good or bad. Everyone hated it, and it was a major selling point people would use to drag other games through the dust. Now the consensus has obviously changed and looks to tip more in favor of it not being that bad of a thing.

    So where's the easy part? It would be nice if you could elaborate on what's inaccurate compared to real life rather than a comparison to each other and showing what you're talking about. On top of that, no one is saying that it doesn't pop its head in, but that the issue is not a common place thing like most are saying. Nor is it isolated to outsourcing.

    That's unlikely. People analyze and look in depth to these models all the time especially within photomode. Hell, even @emula has a thread literally dedicated to that. It's more likely because it's not noticeable rather than you thinking that no one uses them. Which falls in line with the vast majority of outsourced models in the other games in the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  3. Castrol96

    Castrol96

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    Honestly, PD should've began Outsourcing when the PS3 era began. They would've been ahead of the game.
     
  4. Sage Ages

    Sage Ages

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    I'm not terribly familiar with this field so feel free to correct me, but I assume that a decent chunk of how the model is gonna turn out is dependent of the requirements/budgets of the game in question, and the reference materials that have been provided.

    You could have an outsourcing studio work on three different games and you'll end up with three very different models.
     
  5. Castrol96

    Castrol96

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    If its Mid to Low poly work I wouldn't mind doing it at all.
     
  6. Samus

    Samus

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    Pretty much. Hypothetically if a modeller made the same car for Project CARS and Gran Turismo the two resulting models would have a lot of differences because of the different requirements and ethos of each company. PDs model would require minute detail on the visible parts of the car whilst the model made for pCARS would be less detailed but have the drivetrain, suspension and other areas under the skin fully modelled for the benefit of the damage system in pCARS, something PD wouldn't require.
     
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  7. SportCoaster

    SportCoaster

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    Why do I feel like Gran Turismo 7 will have less than 715 Cars on release day?
     
  8. o000o

    o000o

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    Yeah, but as discussed in this thread, probably the quality discrepancy is the reason they're against it (wrong move still).

    Cuz PD are so slow with having so few employees (they're outsourcing, but dunno how impact in speed).
     
  9. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Let's just say, we have 336(as per the Master Car list) cars total, within 3 years. Let's say half(which is the original car list) were done between 2015-2017(remember, we got "new" 2015, 2016 and 2017[the orange GT-R] models on debut).
    PD could have modelled 168 cars from when they said Gran Turismo 7 development began, which is right after GT Sport completion. So, that's 2017-2019 for guesstimating another possible 168 cars modelled for Gran Turismo 7's debut car list.

    Add the undisclosed number of outsourced models, let's say two studios can add 79 cars each. We don't as yet know the size of the outsourced studios. Could be smaller than PD. That would yield 168 cars. Total additional cars to GT Sport could be 338, added to the current GT Sport list of cars. That's 676 for Gran Turismo 7.

    Maybe add the Porsche and "Lambo Lambo Lambo & Omega Moo" VGTs:lol:(sorry, couldn't resist). The Porsche Living Legend car, for an adjusted total of 679 on game debut.

    No doubt some cars may be deleted and some added in their places.
     
  10. Emilius_73

    Emilius_73

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    I don't really care about the exact amount of cars, I just want to see a few of things:

    • Newer GT3/GTE cars
    • DTM and 2020 GT500 to go into Gr.2
    • A paintable modern day F1 car (2020 or 2022, I prefer 2020)
    Add that, along with more real-world circuits, larger lobbies, multiplayer driver swaps and dynamic weather/time, and you're golden.
     
  11. Castrol96

    Castrol96

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    They should outsource assets for their circuits to save time.
     
  12. Sage Ages

    Sage Ages

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    PD (and I assume other racing devs) already have tools to work on tracks with, so I assume that task isn't as taxing as doing things from scratch.
     
  13. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    I think this is positive news, hopefully also leads to PD's staff doing some higher value work like designing decent tracks.
     
  14. queleuleu

    queleuleu

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    Unfortunately, the trees wouldn't change. I can't believe there are 2d spinning trees at Trial Mountain on PS5...
     
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  15. SportCoaster

    SportCoaster

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    Wait, what? 2D spinning trees? That have been common since around 1994? That's weird, I thought they would be genuinely real trees. There goes much of the chance to trick people into thinking Gran Turismo 7 footage & screenshots are real-life...
     
  16. PSN:And-War

    PSN:And-War

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    Golf R32
     
  17. PSN:And-War

    PSN:And-War

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    the golf r32
     
  18. Samus

    Samus

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    Which is one of those cars already mentioned as being very old, having carried over from essentially the first game. You also don't know who modelled it, I assume.
     
  19. MagpieRacer

    MagpieRacer Premium

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    I'm gonna just put it out there here for all to see and say GT7 will have 2000 cars at launch.

    Kaz has said a few times, in relation to GT7, that he sees no reason to discard the standard cars as so many cars have their own unique fans and would like to hold on to the archive of cars they have built.

    "I doubt that we'll be throwing away the standard cars," said Yamauchi. "Each car has its own fans. So I think we'll hang on to the archive. In the meanwhile, some of those cars we may be able to make into Premium cars as they become available - but basically we're more focussed on increasing the number of premium cars."
     
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  20. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    So I guess that's confirmed.
    You're extremely optimistic! Even with all the standards I don't think they've reach the 1500~ mark. Still in my opinion, he may very well not be throwing away those vehicles, but I don't think he'll be putting them back in without being reworked first - They're likely just for reference at this point, while they work on getting a fully modeled version back into the game.

    With how much we've gotten with base-GTS as well as how much have been introduced since then, I don't think we'll be hitting 1000. I think 600-700 is more realistic, but also a bit generous as well.
     
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  21. GBalao888

    GBalao888

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    I wonder if there will be a Red Bull X2021 of some sort. Something as a true successor to the X2014 Fan Car, but more advanced.

    You want 2,000 cars? Combine every premium car from the PS3 era, everything revealed for GT7 so far and everything from GT Sport with every possible car from the Forza series (barring cars exclusive to them and whatever fictional cars they have) and that's pretty close to it. I would wish to have a game like that, but let's be realistic here.

    I really think GT7 would release with around 650 to 750 cars, thereabouts, because 2,000 is simply too great, that we'll need to wait around GT8 or GT Sport 2.0 (whatever it would be called) to have a car list like that. If GT7 is supported for a long time, like say three years, and we launch with around 750 cars at best, we could (hopefully) be seeing around 1,000 over these three years, provided that they give us consistent monthly updates.

    To achieve 2,000 cars, this can be possible, eventually in a future Gran Turismo even way beyond 7, provided they have a gargantuan budget, together with many connections with companies/firms to outsource, technology to build cars at a consistent quality that quickly, as well as having to make deals with many brands, motorsports and car culture companies/organizations/agencies, given that Polyphony doesn't have that large of manpower.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  22. Samus

    Samus

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    Are you seriously suggesting they'll include PS2 models on PS5?
     
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  23. MagpieRacer

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    Kaz suggested it actually. So, yeah, if he doesn't want the work to go to waste. It's his game, he can do as he pleases.
     
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  24. tankuroded

    tankuroded

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    Where did he say that? That's a stretch interpretation on your end from the way I saw it.
     
  25. Samus

    Samus

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    That was six years ago though. In the end they didn't even include the premium cars as is, they needed updating to work for PS4, so I highly doubt the basic PS2 era models were compatible either, and that's ignoring their overall poor visual appearance.

    He could use them again, but I think it's extremely unlikely. They would look absurd among the rest of the high detailed assets.
     
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  26. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    The way it's worded out though is that they're just going to be kept in their archive, and that's basically it. That is, until they get remodeled to at least current gen standards.
    This quote almost confirms it, in my opinion.
     
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  27. MagpieRacer

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    It was a direct quote from his own mouth. :lol: He doesnt want to throw away the archive they've built up. A quick Google search for Gran Turismo 7 standard cars will yield numerous interviews and quotes. But because no one wants it, no one will belive it. Which is fine.

    Don't say you haven't all been warned though. I will welcome them with open arms as there's a lot of fun cars and potential extra content to play with. Only Sony have the power to change his mind on it. If his mindset is on keeping the car archive then in his typically stubborn ways he will keep it.
     
  28. MagpieRacer

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    Perhaps. Similar was said for the previous game but they simply updated the in game models as they went. I would hope the same would be done again.
     
  29. ImaRobot

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    I don't think we should be basing anything off the previous game considering we have a more recent one we can go off of, that seems to support my opinion.
     
  30. MagpieRacer

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    Yeah its personal opinion of course. GTS isn't a main series entry so to me everything that did in no way relates to what I expect from GT7, other than scapes and any potential multiplayer offering. GTS is a spin off to me.

    Time will tell.
     
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