Gran Turismo Car Models Now Made in Three Months, Outsourced to India

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 7' started by GTPNewsWire, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows

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    The best part is that I imagine that you can probably do this exercise for a whole bunch of topics and features present within GT games going back to GT5 (Probably GT4 even, as I feel that was the beginning of this almost habitual process of lying and exaggeration in magazines and outlet press began, certainly the debacle of GT PSP feels like a very noticeable start point) where Kaz says one thing that is against what fans clearly seem to believe, or things that Kaz promised or floated, but often ended up neutered to the point of where one wonders why he bothered hyping it up in the first place.
     
  2. MagpieRacer

    MagpieRacer Premium

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    Indeed, I mean, I doubt it was their soul output for 7 years or whatever. I nitice you havent quoted anything for that.

    You're missing one really key thing though, it isn't Gran Turismo 7. Its Gran Turismo Sport, and is mossing a massive amount of what makes Gran Turisno games Gran Turismo. Nowhere have I suggested they've marketed it as a spinniff or claimed they have. To me, GTS is nothing more than filler, a spin off, it's not part of the main series, it isnt Gran Turismo 7. Heck at launch it was barely worthy KFC the Gran Turismo name.
     
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  3. suomi1

    suomi1

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    And what about:
    "Gran Turismo Trailers Now Made in Three Months, Outsourced to India"

    :gtpflag:
     
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  4. Tornado

    Tornado

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    Since they haven't released any other Gran Turismo games since 2013 (and that game barely had anything in it over the one that had came out three years prior), I wouldn't have thought I needed to.

    Your opinion is irrelevant to the claims and intent of the game that was explained multiple times by the creator of the series in response to the specific assertion you're claiming to be true. Everything that was said by PD about the game and the franchise as a whole was that Gran Turismo Sport was the Gran Turismo sequel to GT6 that was going to be on the PS4; and that those waiting for a "real one" to come out were out of luck because PD were instead going to provide post-launch support to add things to make it the Gran Turismo experience that people wanted.

    That PD didn't actually do that, or never actually understood what people's problems were with the game they delivered when it came to post-launch support, can be added to the broken promises and marketing lies bin that was already overflowing after GT6 with things like placeholder sounds, the "quantum leap" of monthly DLC and the fiasco of the track editor; but for the purposes of this discussion GT Sport was the Gran Turismo game and acting like PD never gave it their full attention and have been squirreling away hundreds of cars for the "real" game that they arbitrarily decided not to put in the one game they've made for an entire console generation is not only baseless but opposite of what was said about the game by the people who made it.
     
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  5. MagpieRacer

    MagpieRacer Premium

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    My opinion isn't irrelevant. But thanks anyway.

    Honestly you are deluded if you think that they're plowing all the content they have into GTS. GT7 has been in development as long as GTS, maybe longer. 2013 it was first talked about being in development, and at that stage we don't know how long for.

    They have already contradicted themselves multiple times by confirming GT7 is under development, then claiming they have no plans, then annoucning GT7, there is no reason to hold them to everything they say. GTS is only considered a main series entry because its the only launch for the franchise on this gen. In the background GT7 has been delayed so much they've missed multiple windows of opportunity to release so they continued support for GTS while prepping GT7 for its grand next gen debut.

    My thoughts, my opinion, quotes won't make it right or wrong as they are my thoughts. Time will tell if I'm proven to be right and until then there isn't a right or wrong way of looking at it. Just differing opinions.
     
  6. Samus

    Samus

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    But "GT7" became GTS. I believe the internal codename is even GT7SP. That's what we're saying. Yes Kaz talked about a GT7 and not GTS in 2013/4 but that doesn't mean they were developing two separate games and that GT7 has been in development this whole time. They started on their next game, assumed to be GT7, and Kaz talked about such, but it became GTS. All efforts went into GTS, that's what their next game morphed into, and where all their development effort and money went into.

    That's what he said in 2017. Now unless he's lying, that says work on GT7 started after GTS launched, it wasn't already happening for four years. The GT7 scheduled for release now is not the same GT7 Kaz was talking about in 2013.
     
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  7. MagpieRacer

    MagpieRacer Premium

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    We shall see.
     
  8. Samus

    Samus

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    Indeed. Soon. :lol:
     
  9. TBR 427

    TBR 427

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    Let's break that down...
    "GT Sport offers a remarkable level of detail in every facet of the presentation. The move to PlayStation 4 means that materials, textures and lighting are all amped up beyond what was previously possible"
    Easy enough - more horsepower, particularly GPU.
    "In making the leap to physically-based rendering, the game features more realistic surfaces and objects throughout its environments and across the lineup of cars. Textures are much sharper and more realistic as a result even up-close."
    I can only guess that 'textures are much sharper and more realistic as a result' means as a result of having more GPU grunt on tap with the PS4. PBR doesn't inherently sharpen textures. It does help surfaces look more realistic though - they respond more accurately to light at more angles and more conditions. HDR also helps a lot with this.
    "The game retains a sense of scale that no other sim racer can quite match - the way its environments stretch out into the distance create the illusion of a large world."
    Again, more to do with GPU grunt.

    As for having to rework everything in a huge ordeal, not really.

    Meshes don't actually need to be changed. PBR is about conserving (light) energy. Mesh quality has little to do with that.

    The vast majority of textures should be in the 0-1 range. Metallic, Smoothness/Roughness, emission masks, etc, etc, etc. You could save them in HDR, but you get very diminishing returns in terms of precision - just more numbers after the decimal point. Smoothness should use the same texture as before, maybe exported at a higher res from (even higher res) source files. Base color for car paint, you'd never save as a texture. Likewise any special color values used for colorshift paints. So, adjusting the textures to PBR isn't THAT hard.

    Shaders? Sure. They were likely using 'physically informed' shaders previously for things like car paint, glass. But the change isn't actually that drastic. And once you set that one shader, all you do is then go and make sure it's still fine for each paint color. Things like carbonfiber, grass, rubber all get written once and they should be fairly well bulletproof after that.

    Actually, ray-tracing responds really really well to low-poly / low-detail stuff.

    The big gains - softer realtime bounced light and nice reflections on everything - don't actually require super-hi-poly models.

    Sure there's gains to be had by having good super-detailed models and well-made textures. But there's nothing really DXR specific that helps with models. You just make better models, that tessellate better, and are more accurate. Which is what anyone would tend to do anyway.

    It should be noted that GTSport is also known as GT7 Sport. This is in internal names, and lasted long enough to make it into various code references (and elsewhere). So when they were talking about a 'GT7' in 2013 it kinda muddles the history a bit.

    Though, having two things named GT7 will tend to do that....
     
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  10. MadMax97

    MadMax97

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    GT7 is made taking GTSport as it is with the content it have and improving it graphics and physics to ps5 levels, as AI, sounds etc. and adding more content and everything to ps5 standard, very simple.

    So they work on it since 2017 but with GTsport base engine and importing what it already have and adding more stuff upgrading visuals, features, audio, AI, sounds, interiors, tracks and adding new stuff and everything
     
  11. OHM_fusion

    OHM_fusion

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    The "gains" are dependent on the artist's vision, no? Like I said above the high poly models aren't required for ray tracing but if photorealism is your desired look you will surely benefit from more polygonal detail. And as we know that's the look GT is going for.

    For example I think Minecraft RTX looks impressive but the low-poly look is part of it's visual identity. Throwing a low-poly PS2 era standard car into a modern GT engine is going to look terrible no matter how nice the ray traced reflections are, because that goes against GT's visual identity.

    No PBR material or ray-traced lightning engine could make those models look acceptable in a modern GT game, surely we agree on that?
     
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  12. TBR 427

    TBR 427

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    Standard cars might be a stretch too far, and a massive waste of RT to be sure. Honestly, most of them are a waste of a cubemap reflection at this point...

    And honestly the amount of resources needed for them means that the RT time per frame would be thousands of times more expensive than the rest of the rendering for a standard car. So you'd be spending 5-8ms/frame on lighting something that's ugly and takes 0.001s frame to render.

    I was just more intent on clearing up a myth I keep hearing about RT needing super-great models needing to be super-high-poly or there's no point. Occasionally I salivate at good looking Cornell boxes, so maybe that's just me.

    Realistically, pretty-much every cool or interesting environment from the PS360 era and on, as simplified as they are, would benefit from RT. Hell, even the tracks from GT4 on the PS2 would benefit from it - especially those with varied lighting (El Capitan's tunnel, Seattle, in fact all the street circuits. Anywhere that has scenery for light to bounce around).
     
  13. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Were the standard cars still under licence? That was a long time to hold onto cars from GT4-GT6.

    We lost some, like the FPV cars, but still kept some like the Holdens and older DTM models.

    We got remodelled standards from the A80 Supra and NSX Type R. Just wonder they'd be able to keep updating past models.
     
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  14. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    That they don't have the licenses anymore doesn't mean that they'd have to trash them completely. They just wont be able to introduce them into current games unless they get renewed. Hell, they can even work on them without having a license, and then just introduce them once it gets approval and whatnot - Likely would be a huge waste of time if it never goes through, but really, nothings stopping them from doing that I'd imagine.
     
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  15. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    They've worked on cars and tracks without a license before (Lotus and Spa) for GT Sport so I think it's pretty fair to say you're correct in assuming there's nothing stopping them.
     
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  16. Rzeractor

    Rzeractor

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    I may be one of the few that actually doesn't mind the encyclopedia of cars when the standard models are included - perhaps a good option would be to optionally install these cars, & that way there are enough premium cars to fill out the races by default anyway for those that want the super res experience. Best of both worlds, I imagine.
    I have just been one of those people that tries to find the obscure car to race, in certain races and having 1000+ cars just adds to that touch.
     
  17. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    In the case of GTPSP cars being transferred, that's fine as an option. However, was so weird seeing my blacked out window MINI Cooper next to the premium cars.

    I guess like a no interior VGT, it's pretty close to being the same thing. ;)
     
  18. Samus

    Samus

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    I am truly baffled that people want these

    [​IMG]

    alongside these

    [​IMG]

    ..and that's a PS4 model, without the further enhancement PS5 will bring. Even if you do manage to look past the massive visual differences, what about the functional differences? No livery editor, no wheel changes, no visual changes whatsoever. No interior view.
     
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  19. WhiteShadw

    WhiteShadw

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    Imagine if the car list is around 3,000 cars... with all of them being unique.

    Instant racing GOTY.

    I have been wishing for years to have a racing game where you could have all the trims of the cars in the game. e.g.

    Honda civic 1996 Sedan/Hatch:
    Trim #1 (LXi): 1.5L SOHC (105hp/134nm) (D15Z4) No VTEC
    Trim #2 (LX): 1.6L SOHC (106hp/140nm) (D16Y7) No VTEC
    Trim #3 (HX): 1.6L SOHC (115hp/141nm) (D16Y5) VTEC
    Trim #4 (EX): 1.6L SOHC (127hp/145nm) (D16Y8) VTEC
    Trim #5 (Si): 1.6L DOHC (160hp/150nm) (B16A2) VTEC
    Trim #6 (Type-R): 1.6L DOHC (185hp/160nm) (B16B) VTEC

    I also think career mode should have a time line like NFS Porsche Unleashed had, where you go through "Era's". That way everyone would be forced to either spend all their money on the most premium trim or save a lot of money, buy a cheaper trim and build it up.

    What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  20. Hellburner

    Hellburner

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    Those 'boring' cars are to me the best thing to Gran Turismo. I never liked GT Sport because you couldn't grow into the game. Usually I spend days about thinking about what would be my first car in Gran Turismo. I like to buy stuff like the Infiniti G20 or a Vauxhall Vectra and using them as long as possible, tuning them to the max on the way up. So for me the more diverse cars the better. I would love to see more old 4door cars and SUV's. The car list of GT Sport is so boring with all the coupes and sportcars.

    In earlier GT's there were more rules for determining which cars you could use for a certain race. That makes a GT game fun, the search for the right car for the right race and I love to think out of the box in those... So if it means that there will be more cars when they outsource the car models to India than I will be happy to give in on the quality (if even so?). I would rather have 500 unique and diverse cars at 80% perfection than 250 copy/paste cars at 100% perfection. I have more fun in collecting the cars than racing with them ;-)
     
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  21. TS050

    TS050 Premium

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    I'm pretty sure he was referencing the quality of the model instead of the actual car
     
  22. Samus

    Samus

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    Exactly, they were random examples.
     
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  23. Hellburner

    Hellburner

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    My bad, I missed the last part of your post. But yes I do not mind that they don't have interior view or livery editing if that means that there will be (a lot) more (different) cars.
     
  24. o000o

    o000o

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    Just that, the problem is the trim, like you listed there has different hp, performance, other specs, and price. They look similar at first glance but the list shows the difference like separate cars. I also want something to sort out this like the car variations but dunno.

    As NFS Porsche Unleashed is about, well, Porsche, how about your suggestion there being used for manufacturer events in Brand Central, integrated with Museum?
     
  25. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    I'd rather fully rendered cars. I use cockpit view most of the time and need that option.
     
  26. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    That becomes an issue when trying to play online. What are you going to do at that point? Segregate the player base?
     
  27. sesven

    sesven

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    Maybe a silly question but it’s been far too long since I’ve played GT6. Could you change color on the standards?

    To me it’s less about the blacked out interior - but the low poly/body being one shell thing going on. I loved the variety of models and the used car section in GT4. But in GT5 and 6 it just felt weird seeing a jagged car model on the track with highly detailed models. Like a surrealist’s fever dream.

    And like I said before I still think if PS2 models were in GT7 - gaming media and Microsoft fans would Find out and be all over it, pointing and laughing.
     
  28. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    Remove Microsoft and replace it with fans of any other racing games. Rightfully so, too.
     
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  29. Samus

    Samus

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    Just gaming in general. Outside of brief jokes/purposely referencing old games with alternative skins it's just unheard of for developers to use such ancient assets. Gamers today can be way too harsh on graphics and even use hyperbole to describe some modern games with slightly iffy graphics as "OMGZ LOOKS LIKE PS2 GAME!" but for a dev to actually use assets which truly are that bad - on purpose - would be quite something.

    I highly doubt PD are going to do it anyway, but if they did - Laughing stocks.
     
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  30. ArR29

    ArR29

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    There's no way they'd bring back those PS2 assets. They didn't even bother importing GT5/6 premium cars into GTSport, let alone a bunch of pixelated cars with no interior models.
     
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