Gran Turismo makes me look bad

  • Thread starter Herrybo79
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152
Germany
Germany
Hey,

I only want to show you what happend to me, and why I am saying "i look bad".

Situation from different views can watched at the Video.

I tried to driving fair, but this guy was so much slower, as you can see in my back mirror, when I look at his view, It looks I bumped him aggressively in to the gras.

I know thats also my mistake, but I think the guy said I am an idiot.
I show this only because a lot of guys are disappointed with the driving skills, but you can see here, if you see the different views, thats not always a stupid bumbing.

For me closed the door aggressively.

 
772
Netherlands
Lienden, Holland
GasMonkey_NL
You were the guy that hit the Ferrari?

At the first contact you make you should get of the gas or brake a bit then you both had a nice race, now the race of the ferrari is done.......

Also looks like the first or second lap why worry about one place at that point?
 
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157
RotorHed
Yeah unlucky one. He probably got an SR degrade and is wondering why.

This is a case I think where the game implements the overtake rules almost too well.

I mean you could clearly make the corner and you didn’t lean on the guy so you weren’t divebombing.

So the question is did you have enough of your car alongside to be able to claim the apex? I think the game says you did because it seems to take any bit of car - even just a front bumpers worth - as enough.

In a real race they might well say you didn’t have enough of your car alongside so you should’ve yielded.
 
1,834
United States
United States
If you look at that video 11 seconds in it is no doubt you are at fault. There is no way you have a clear racing lane into that corner to complete a pass without hitting the leading car. His car is in front of you entering the corner and the racing line he is taking belongs to him.

It does not matter how much "faster" you may be than the car in front of you it is YOUR responsibility to pass the leading car cleanly without contact. You should have backed off and waited until another opportunity arose where you could have passed cleanly.
 

SlipZtrEm

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NewAesthetic
SlipZtrEm
You're the AMG, correct?

You took a long dive into the corner, then repeatedly hit 15th's rear right corner, PIT maneuvering him. You didn't back off after the first contact — it's not his fault you spun him. He was taking a normal racing line heading into the corner, which isn't unreasonable when a car is multiple car-lengths behind.
 
152
Germany
Germany
If you’re the AMG GT then you’re at fault. You weren’t any way near half a car length alongside him. He was out of shape but there was no room inside. Mistakes happen... Even professionals can make this kind of misjudgment.

Yes, I was in the mercedes. Thx for feedback, have to force more the "Half Car Length".

You were the guy that hit the Ferrari?

At the contact you make you should get of the gas or brake a bit then you both had a nice race, no the race of the ferrari is done.......

Also looks like the first or second lap why worry about one place at that point?

Was round 5 or 6, we drove like this for almost 4 Rounds, and thats why I was maybe shocked about the earlier breaking point.
Thanks for reply.
 
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157
RotorHed
he wasn't slow, he was braking early to catch the apex. I'm not sure where you were going because if he wasn't there to get hit you would have over shot the exit.

No he wasn’t. Watch the video again - he made the corner perfectly well, the Ferrari drove across his line and bounced off him so he didn’t need the contact to make it.

I’m not saying he was in the right to put his nose there, but for that corner he was going a decent speed to make the turn.
 
152
Germany
Germany
he wasn't slow, he was braking early to catch the apex. I'm not sure where you were going because if he wasn't there to get hit, you would have over shot the exit.

No, I was not to fast, you can see it also in the back mirrow, that the bmw hit me hard, because it was really slow, in the corner.
So if I don't touch him, I where still at the inside.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
No he wasn’t. Watch the video again - he made the corner perfectly well, the Ferrari drove across his line and bounced off him so he didn’t need the contact to make it.

I’m not saying he was in the right to put his nose there, but for that corner he was going a decent speed to make the turn.

he was going too fast, the Ferrari was clearly going to the apex, its the only line from where he was. unless he could safely overtake the farrari before that apex he should have backed off

the OP wasn't even all the way on the outside, I still think he was too fast and too shallow to not over shoot the apex. he wouldn't have gone in the dirt but he wouldn't have had a rapid exit.
 
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152
Germany
Germany
he was going too fast, the Ferrari was clearly going to the apex, its the only line from where he was. unless he could safely overtake the farrari before that apex he should have backed off

the OP wasn't even all the way on the outside, I still think he was too fast and too shallow to no over shoot the apex. he wouldn't have gone in the dirt but he wouldn't have had a rapid exit.

if you watch complete, you can see he is also much slower in the corner before. So it was for me more a surprise that he slowed down so much at the second corner.
 

rono_thomas

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Yea you have got it wrong but in your defence the ferrari driver has seemingly broken early and seems to be slow on the uptake of throttle, which is why you think he’s left the door open, or why it appears so, where it went wrong is when you chose the inside to pass.

Unless your side by side in the breaking zone your not going to make a pass on the apex, not unless a car that far in front monumentally messed up, so you should be sizing up a pass by getting a better exit.

If you had taken the normal racing line there it seems you would have passed him with ease and without contact on the run up to the next corner.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
if you watch complete, you can see he is also much slower in the corner before. So it was for me more a surprise that he slowed down so much at the second corner.

hey, I'm not saying you're a bad human being. I bet the Ferrari scrubbed off too much speed from bumping the other car and running halfway off of the track. seeing that, I would have assumed that he doesn't know the optimum speed at the next turn and that he would brake early, which he did.

so it's easy for me to criticize since it's not a play I would have made. I would have braked late on the outside, tagged a late apex turn, and then tried to smoke him on the upcoming straight.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
74,261
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Rule 12
GTP_Famine
the earlier breaking point
He's ahead of you. He can choose where he wants to brake. And he's already turning right for the turn before you change your line and come out from behind him.

As soon as it became clear you were not going to slow down in time, you should have aimed for the outside of the corner rather than the inside - as there are no cars turning across your direction of travel at the outside of a corner. This is pretty basic technique for driving in traffic, but you see it over and over again online - and from drivers who otherwise think they're fair because they're not sideswiping people or using them as brakes.
 
1,834
United States
United States
if you watch complete, you can see he is also much slower in the corner before. So it was for me more a surprise that he slowed down so much at the second corner.

That corner many times you have much more success passing on the outside lane as you can generally hold good speed through the corner and make the pass going up the hill. Even if you do not complete the pass going up the hill you can hold to left side lane down the next hill and you have the inside line on the left hand corner at the bottom of the hill.

Does not give you optimum lines through the sector but will allow you to hold a line to complete a clean pass through that left hander at the bottom of the hill.
 
157
RotorHed
Thanks for all the feedbacks, I will do this time for time, because a lot of people thinking -like me here- that all others are enemies, but would be great to see how to Avoid or to handle situations like this.

Actually I think it’s great you posted this and included a comprehensive replay so thank you.

Here is a summary of the FIA rule that applies in this situation.

So the question is how much of your car you got alongside his - if you
Overlapped his axle at the apex, blame is shared, less blame is yours.



f1_apex_c.png

In this case, the attacker’s front axle is ahead of the defender’s rear axle and the two cars are approximately halfway alongside. Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared. It is in this zone that racing incidents can occur. Ayrton Senna was famous for creating situations just like this, as both attacker and defender, where the other driver would have to decide whether or not to yield to avoid a collision.


This is copied from the following link which is a nice summary of the FIA rules.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
Thanks for all the feedbacks, I will do this time for time, because a lot of people thinking -like me here- that all others are enemies, but would be great to see how to Avoid or to handle situations like this.

no worries. up until GT6 I used to think that Barge Passing (aka dive bombing) was how you were supposed to pass people. a lot of us are still going through a learning curve on driving etiquette.

That corner many times you have much more success passing on the outside lane as you can generally hold good speed through the corner and make the pass going up the hill. Even if you do not complete the pass going up the hill you can hold to left side lane down the next hill and you have the inside line on the left hand corner at the bottom of the hill.

Does not give you optimum lines through the sector but will allow you to hold a line to complete a clean pass through that left hander at the bottom of the hill.

and to add to this... if people are killing each other for the inside line, they are also scrubbing speed from each other when they hit, and you can frequently smoke them with a lazy low speed outside line.
 

GTP_Dutchy

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GTP_Dutchy
I'm not gonna zoom in on who's at fault since that's already covered in the posts above.

What I don't like is that you state that GTSport makes you look bad wich isn't the case this is just a driver error. What I do like is that you have the courage to have peers feedback on your driving. Imho this is always a good way to improve.

three things that i'd like to put out there is:
1. Respect your competitors raceline and braking points. in these classes there are cars which are fast/slow on different parts of the track. You should anticipate that if you can't you gotta catch up on your race craft. the goal should be to learn to always be in control of the car and make clear passes.

2. You went on after the first bump. so once you got the indication that you weren't in control you didn't back of and let the guy catch you instead you ruined his race.

3. The vid doesn't show me if you did but if this happens wait for the guy to catch up and give him the position back. This is pretty wel covered in the GTP online rules en guidelines. At least it would have shown him that you're not an "idiot" but just someone who takes responsibillity for his own mistakes. It would have cost you this race but gained you respect. (unfortunatly this type of mindset is way to rare in online lobbies).

I know things can get heated pretty quickly and mistakes do happen there's no shame in that it's just the way you resolved them

Actually I think it’s great you posted this and included a comprehensive replay so thank you.

Here is a summary of the FIA rule that applies in this situation.

So the question is how much of your car you got alongside his - if you
Overlapped his axle at the apex, blame is shared, less blame is yours.



f1_apex_c.png

In this case, the attacker’s front axle is ahead of the defender’s rear axle and the two cars are approximately halfway alongside. Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared. It is in this zone that racing incidents can occur. Ayrton Senna was famous for creating situations just like this, as both attacker and defender, where the other driver would have to decide whether or not to yield to avoid a collision.


This is copied from the following link which is a nice summary of the FIA rules.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/
agreed, but imho the situation was a bit different the overlap was only a tiny bit going into the corner compared to f1 this would have resulted like in mexico with a destroyed front wing and a flat rear tire. going for these moves is almost a certain way of ending up in tears.

if the guy was quicker he could have been a bit more patient and wait throught the esses and than plan the move on the inside before the chicanes.
 
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152
Germany
Germany
Actually I think it’s great you posted this and included a comprehensive replay so thank you.

Here is a summary of the FIA rule that applies in this situation.

So the question is how much of your car you got alongside his - if you
Overlapped his axle at the apex, blame is shared, less blame is yours.



f1_apex_c.png

In this case, the attacker’s front axle is ahead of the defender’s rear axle and the two cars are approximately halfway alongside. Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared. It is in this zone that racing incidents can occur. Ayrton Senna was famous for creating situations just like this, as both attacker and defender, where the other driver would have to decide whether or not to yield to avoid a collision.


This is copied from the following link which is a nice summary of the FIA rules.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/


Yes, I think it´s really important so see all Videos from all Positions, I always are disappointed if somebody talk about real Sportsmanship without Video. Nice link by the way
 
152
Germany
Germany
I'm not gonna zoom in on who's at fault since that's already covered in the posts above.

What I don't like is that you state that GTSport makes you look bad wich isn't the case this is just a driver error. What I do like is that you have the courage to have peers feedback on your driving. Imho this is always a good way to improve.

three things that i'd like to put out there is:
1. Respect your competitors raceline and braking points. in these classes there are cars which are fast/slow on different parts of the track. You should anticipate that if you can't you gotta catch up on your race craft. the goal should be to learn to always be in control of the car and make clear passes.

2. You went on after the first bump. so once you got the indication that you weren't in control you didn't back of and let the guy catch you instead you ruined his race.

3. The vid doesn't show me if you did but if this happens wait for the guy to catch up and give him the position back. This is pretty wel covered in the GTP online rules en guidelines. At least it would have shown him that you're not an "idiot" but just someone who takes responsibillity for his own mistakes. It would have cost you this race but gained you respect. (unfortunatly this type of mindset is way to rare in online lobbies).

I know things can get heated pretty quickly and mistakes do happen there's no shame in that it's just the way you resolved them

Because I was not sure if it was my faut or not, I was driving slower, and was waiting for him, for sure.....
 

rono_thomas

Adrenaline Racing Community.
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ARC_rono_thomas
This is an interesting thread actually, from the members replies you can tell that racing in traffic is something that the GTS population is in need of learning.

My experience from actual sport races seems to me that the “griefers” are not actually out to hurt, they just make poor choices, I avoid most of them by predicting what they are going to do or limiting their choices, if I think there’s even a sniff of a chance that they will attempt an overtake (my general rule if thumb is within three car lengths) I will automatically assume a defensive line. Slower overall laptime, but it means they usually take the outside, I will then gobble up whatever tarmac they leave open for me, limiting their choices further.

But this has come with years of racing online experience.

I do feel that GTS is missing a trick with not having a racing license offline section to even teach the principles in the racing etiquette section, there are parts of the license that start to teach but its disconnected, I think that everyone could start unclassified, and then have to complete License tests offline against AI where hitting them will actually affect your driver rating, a pass of this License would elevate it to E and then online racing would become unlocked. I would make it more interesting that if the License decreased to U then online would become locked again and the License repeated.
 

GTP_Dutchy

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GTP_Dutchy
I think the title refers to the etiquette videos PD make us watch before going online. They use the phrase “make you look bad” a lot - It gave me a chuckle to read the title.
since most of it was kicking open doors for me i just played them and went to bathroom :P
 
157
RotorHed
agreed, but imho the situation was a bit different the overlap was only a tiny bit going into the corner compared to f1 this would have resulted like in mexico with a destroyed front wing and a flat rear tire. going for these moves is almost a certain way of ending up in tears.

if the guy was quicker he could have been a bit more patient and wait throught the esses and than plan the move on the inside before the chicanes.

Oh yeah I quite agree - it was a move that needed the Ferrari driver to agree to it for it to not involve contact.

However, in terms of who is to blame for what eventually happened if you watch the outside view of this incident, the nose on that amg is long - the OP had quite a lot of overlap with the Ferrari and probably his front axle near to the rear of the Ferrari.

Enough to put it in the race incident category? Probably not, but I don’t think it is quite as clear cut the fault of the OP given the FIA rules surrounding this type of overtake.

I can’t say for sure but I do think GTS is trying to apply such rulings when determining SR changes.

since most of it was kicking open doors for me i just played them and went to bathroom :P
Well if you feel like a laugh try watching them and see how many times he says “makes you
look bad”.

Such a weird phrase to use, it’s sort of hypnotic after a while.
 
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1,834
United States
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Many non racers whether in the virtual or real life I do not think understand that sometimes you can follow a vehicle for many laps and never have an opening for a clean overtake.

This is where the casual gamer will become impatient and or frustrated and initiate contact to take the position and really not understand why they are wrong because "they were faster".

A big part of racing involves defensively covering the optimum inside line through a corner to force your opponent to have to take the less desired path to the outside making a pass much harder or not even possible.

I also commend the OP as he is showing a genuine interest in learning the ins and outs of properly racing with others on a road course!