Gran Turismo makes me look bad

[Tekku]

This thread tells me that they really should've expanded on the racing etiquette in the game. They only tell you what not to do, when they instead should show you how to properly do it.

From the F1 link:
"On hairpin corners, an alternative method of overtaking is available, sometimes called the switch-back. If the defending driver takes the inside line, the attacking driver can try to take a wider entry. This results in a later apex, a straighter path under acceleration, and therefore a faster exit. To deal with this threat, defenders often choose to linger at the apex by delaying their application of throttle on exit. Because the attacker must pass over the defender’s line, this creates an obstruction. Now the attacker is unable to accelerate out of the corner until the defender has done the same, undermining the attacker’s advantage on exit."

I try to do this all the time, but I didn't know that it was a valid technique.

 

[Baconink]

if you watch complete, you can see he is also much slower in the corner before. So it was for me more a surprise that he slowed down so much at the second corner.

Doesn’t matter if he was slower than you into the corner at all though, like others have been saying, if you’re not at least halfway to passing him then then line belongs to him and you need to back off, not him. He can do whatever he wants because that line belongs to him. He can’t intentionall block you out or make more than one move or more than one brake to that line which he didn’t do either of. This was completely your fault OP. You may have been faster through than he was but you weren’t far enough along to make a clean pass or to own possession of the line.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I tend to default to the GTP OLR in these situations.

B: You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner's turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver's position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

C: If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.

 

[SeerreuS]

Hey,

I only want to show you what happend to me, and why I am saying "i look bad".

Situation from different views can watched at the Video.

I tried to driving fair, but this guy was so much slower, as you can see in my back mirror, when I look at his view, It looks I bumped him aggressively in to the gras.

I know thats also my mistake, but I think the guy said I am an idiot.
I show this only because a lot of guys are disappointed with the driving skills, but you can see here, if you see the different views, thats not always a stupid bumbing.

For me closed the door aggressively.

Race direction would say the Ferrari had a right to continue his race line. If you were right on his but coming into that corner he would have seen the overtake and wouldn't have been able to continue his line. The Ferrari left the door open, I don't think you were close enough to overtake in my opinion.

 

[trustjab]

@Herrybo79, hey man, I say race how you want to be raced. It's just an online race with randoms. Unless this is a league race or a series you're partaking in, just try to give room. Don't worry about rules and this or that whether you gave the wrong impression. Who cares? Enjoy yourself, that's what a game is meant for. To be played. Often in these races, you think the guys are clean and they ram you. You think you are clean and you ram them. Stuff happens. If you're worried about your reputation I can understand, but if not, it was a misunderstanding and you didn't intentionally do it. You can't read minds and you can often not read drivers. So these little 3, 4 lap races don't really mean much in that respect. Yeah, nearly everyone in these races are aggressive. They all want to win. That's the issue with random daily races. I suggest try to make friends and do a lot of running at these tracks to learn different lines and how cars will behave. If you have friends you can run with them and you will grow used to how they race and their lines. That's a lot easier, cleaner and relaxed than these daily races with strangers.

 

[mattvieri]

Ahhh the classic gt sport drive bomb, mood dependant I would be racing my finest lines just to catch you and ram you straight off as penance

 

[mirial]

@Herrybo79
I think the Ferrari was just far too cautious with an early turn-in and needs to practice before racing a lot more and assuming you were in the Merc, your line and approach were maybe overdone a tiny bit and you would have had to cut the corner possibly to avoid hitting him.

I think you were caught unawares at how carefully he was going too, and this can be the problem whenever faster drivers have a bad start or whatever and then have to make their way past ones who are a lot slower. (The beetle driver seemed irritated and was gone in no time).

 

[ASH32]

Another point to mention is that corner is not one where you should ever be trying to overtake going into it. Even if by a miracle you get clean past (shouldn't be possible) you'll be on the wrong line for a good exit, you'll be slow and likely get hit by someone else and depending on where that contact is it could ruin your race too.

 

[RotorHed]

Ahhh the classic gt sport drive bomb, mood dependant I would be racing my finest lines just to catch you and ram you straight off as penance

This wasn’t a dive bomb by the OP.

Yours is a more dangerous attitude than his if you seek to deliberately cause a crash.

 

[Belifant]

Many non racers whether in the virtual or real life I do not think understand that sometimes you can follow a vehicle for many laps and never have an opening for a clean overtake.

This is where the casual gamer will become impatient and or frustrated and initiate contact to take the position and really not understand why they are wrong because "they were faster".

A big part of racing involves defensively covering the optimum inside line through a corner to force your opponent to have to take the less desired path to the outside making a pass much harder or not even possible.

I also commend the OP as he is showing a genuine interest in learning the ins and outs of properly racing with others on a road course!

I have a question in this regard. I try to race as clean as possible and be as fair as I can, but this is something I have never done, and I wonder if I was expected to do, because I have seen it mentioned in a few places: If I have another racer on my tail for several laps like you describe above, am I expected to let him pass at some point?

I haven't done this so far because 1. It is racing and 2. He might not be faster than me and in return I would be stuck behind him.

 

[JamCar0ne]

I do feel that GTS is missing a trick with not having a racing license offline section to even teach the principles in the racing etiquette section, there are parts of the license that start to teach but its disconnected, I think that everyone could start unclassified, and then have to complete License tests offline against AI where hitting them will actually affect your driver rating, a pass of this License would elevate it to E and then online racing would become unlocked. I would make it more interesting that if the License decreased to U then online would become locked again and the License repeated.

I agree with this. The driving school could have had an underling message of clean driving etiquette. Instead of watching two lack-luster videos to unlock Sport mode, an online license test would have been a whole lot better IMO.

 

[zzz_pt]

I have a question in this regard. I try to race as clean as possible and be as fair as I can, but this is something I have never done, and I wonder if I was expected to do, because I have seen it mentioned in a few places: If I have another racer on my tail for several laps like you describe above, am I expected to let him pass at some point?

I haven't done this so far because 1. It is racing and 2. He might not be faster than me and in return I would be stuck behind him.

Of course not. Unless you're being laped.

The guy on your tail has to find a way to pass you, not expect for you to just give him your position. Also, it's easier to be on the tail of someone due to the slipstream effect. If he's faster he will overtake you. If he's just as fast as you are, he'll be on your tail. No issues with that.


On the OP situation, yes, you look bad because you were behind and didn't have the right to claim an inside line st that point. You should have backed off and try a faster exit into the SS.

 

[pedrocor]

Yeah unlucky one. He probably got an SR degrade and is wondering why.

This is a case I think where the game implements the overtake rules almost too well.

I mean you could clearly make the corner and you didn’t lean on the guy so you weren’t divebombing.

So the question is did you have enough of your car alongside to be able to claim the apex? I think the game says you did because it seems to take any bit of car - even just a front bumpers worth - as enough.

In a real race they might well say you didn’t have enough of your car alongside so you should’ve yielded.

Precisely, I had a race incident where I was on the same place of the Ferrari guy, on my case I had a better drive off previous corner, passed halfway through the straight and even left space on the inside. Still I got a 10s penalty I supposed by the contact on the corner of my rear bumper. The other guy didn't do it on purpose, in my honest opinion, just didn't realize that needed to brake earlier because he wasn't on the ideal racing line. Still, is annoying being put of track and also a 10s penalty.

 

[FUNanywhere]

Too impatient to Overtake. Unless he goes too wide,there is no overtake here actually. You could have waited and got a nice exit from here and overtook him in the straight after few corners.

Bad driving bro but happens to everyone.

 

[Veinz]

This is probably the most common type of collision in the game, way too many people seem to think just because they can stick their front bumper in a closing gap at the last second that they earned the right to be there, not so.

 

[Stotty]

Watched this a few times now, and lot of drivers could learn from what happens here.

If the Ferrari driver was a member on here he'd more than likely be opening yet another thread to complain about the standard of driving on line... first he gets unnecessarily hit by the Beetle on the straight, pushing him on to the grass, and slowing him, then he gets hit twice by the OP, eventually spinning him on to the grass.

OP 100% at fault, but could so easily have been avoided.

First error OP makes is not making an allowance for the Ferrari being pushed off track by the Beetle, and losing some straight line speed - so the Ferrari is coming in to the braking zone with less speed than usual... The OP needed to make allowances for this - Just like when you're catching someone with a tow (draft), you have to make allowances for speed differences in the braking zone.

As a result of the above, OP has to make and unplanned overtake - OP made a late decision to go to the inside primarily because he would have run straight in to the back of the Ferrari if he hadn't (no account taken of speed difference).

At no time was the overtake ever on - There's zero overlap before the turn in point (there's no overlap until the OP actually hits the Ferrari), and the OP hits the Ferrari right on its rear corner at the apex, coming in at an extremely narrow angle. There's no way the Ferrari would have been expecting the OP to make a pass there... probably very difficult to even see it coming and avoid it due to the rear view mirror making cars look too far away and the angle the OP comes in at.

OP then compounds his error by making no attempt to avoid the 2nd contact, which sends the Ferrari spinning.

I find the 2nd contact the most irritating... OP makes a mistake and hits another car - these things happen. Yet instead of trying to avoid further contact, he just keeps his foot in and hits the car a 2nd time. If I was a race steward, I'd be banning him for this alone.

When I read stories of woe from people about online, I wonder how many of them are equally as culpable as the OP for their own predicaments.

 

[Lord Protector]

Hey,

I only want to show you what happend to me, and why I am saying "i look bad".

Situation from different views can watched at the Video.

I tried to driving fair, but this guy was so much slower, as you can see in my back mirror, when I look at his view, It looks I bumped him aggressively in to the gras.

I know thats also my mistake, but I think the guy said I am an idiot.
I show this only because a lot of guys are disappointed with the driving skills, but you can see here, if you see the different views, thats not always a stupid bumbing.

For me closed the door aggressively.

This happens to me literally every freaking race. People are not aware of their surroundings so this happens. You were OK going inside as he did not do any defending move he basically let you go inside and then hit you with back of his car.

I always text people to use the freaking radar and be aware of their surroundings... It's his stupidity.

The guy in Ferrari had enough room in the corner, but instead he chose to block your path.

 

[Scaff]

Hey,

I only want to show you what happend to me, and why I am saying "i look bad".

Situation from different views can watched at the Video.

I tried to driving fair, but this guy was so much slower, as you can see in my back mirror, when I look at his view, It looks I bumped him aggressively in to the gras.

I know thats also my mistake, but I think the guy said I am an idiot.
I show this only because a lot of guys are disappointed with the driving skills, but you can see here, if you see the different views, thats not always a stupid bumbing.

For me closed the door aggressively.

I have to say that from watching this quite a few times the Ferrari driver had that corner, regardless of speed you were not close enough to make that attempt without contact.

The right move at that point would have been to have stuck right behind him, made the most of having closed the gap so much and pressured him (without contact) into the next section, as it would have set you up for a pass into the final corner.

What doesn't help if that after your first tap on his rear you still didn't back out and concede the corner, but pressed again and hit the Ferrari again! That's what forced him off the track.

While the first contact could be argued as a racing incident, the second contact most certainly could not be, at that point you didn't have position, you were never going to pass cleanly and the resulting incident at that point falls entirely to you.

How slow the Ferrari was or was not at any point in this is irrelevant, unless you lapping him or its multi-class racing and you are in a faster class (neither of which was the case) then you have no 'right' to pass him.

 

[Lord Protector]

I have to say that from watching this quite a few times the Ferrari driver had that corner, regardless of speed you were not close enoughto mke that attempt without contact.
How slow the Ferrari was or was not at any point in this is irrelevant, unless you lapping him or its multi-class racing and you are in a faster class (neither of which was the case) then you have no 'right' to pass him.

You're kidding right? He had that corner?? He left him space for the inside dive as he failed to realize there is a faster car behind him that will take his position if he did't defend it. And he did not. So the faster guy went inside and the guy in Ferrari clearly blocked his way, resulting in contact, which would not occur if he would not run to his path.

 

[Famine]

You were OK going inside as he did not do any defending move he basically let you go inside and then hit you with back of his car.

Firstly, what?

Secondly rewatch it. The Ferrari is turning right into the corner long, long before our hero moves out from behind him.

The right move here would have been to go left, avoiding the car turning across his path. It may have helped, with a better exit, to create an actual overtaking chance ahead of the Esses.

 

[Stotty]

This happens to me literally every freaking race. People are not aware of their surroundings so this happens. You were OK going inside as he did not do any defending move he basically let you go inside and then hit you with back of his car.

I always text people to use the freaking radar and be aware of their surroundings... It's his stupidity.

The guy in Ferrari had enough room in the corner, but instead he chose to block your path.

And herein lies the fundamental problem with on-line.

Whilst people think an overtake like that is fine, and wail when their races get ruined as a result, on-line will continue to be a crash fest.

No wonder this happens to you 'literally every freaking race' if you think things like this are OK. It was piss poor driving. Full stop.

 

[Lord Protector]

Firstly, what?

Secondly rewatch it. The Ferrari is turning right into the corner long, long before our hero moves out from behind him.

The right move here would have been to go left, avoiding the car turning across his path. It may have helped, with a better exit, to create an actual overtaking chance ahead of the Esses.

What? The Ferrari guy didn't care to deffend his position despite of his slow driving. To go "left" he'd first need to wait until the Ferrari guy actually cares to go in the corner, resulting in much slower pace.

The wait I see it, Ferrari guy "told" him: go ahead you are clearly faster than me, I'll just stick to the outside as you go by.

@Herrybo79 don't worry about it.

And herein lies the fundamental problem with on-line.

Whilst people think an overtake like that is fine, and wail when their races get ruined as a result, on-line will continue to be a crash fest.

No wonder this happens to you 'literally every freaking race' if you think things like this are OK. It was piss poor driving. Full stop.

Was Ayrton Senna an asshole? Maybe.
Was Ayrton Senna a great driver? Definitely.
Would he win so many races if he didn't take his chances? I don't think so.

 

[Stotty]

Was Ayrton Senna an asshole? Maybe.
Was Ayrton Senna a great driver? Definitely.
Would he win so many races if he didn't take his chances? I don't think so.

Does the OP have Ayrton Senna's skills? No.
Is the OP a great driver? Clearly not.
Would the OP have less accidents if he didn't think he was Ayrton Senna? Yes.
Would you have less accidents if you didn't think you were Senna? Yes.

 

[Lord Protector]

Does the OP have Ayrton Senna's skills? No.
Is the OP a great driver? Clearly not.
Would the OP have less accidents if he didn't think he was Ayrton Senna? Yes.
Would you have less accidents if you didn't think you were Senna? Yes.

This is not about skills. This is about the driving language. If a guy in front of me see that I am faster than him, that I am closing the gap and he doesn't care to deffend his position, why on earth would I not dive inside the corner, forcing him to go outside??? I am not saying off-track I am saying outside. Which results in better corner exit anyway as I have to leave him enough room too. Way I do it, there is no contact trust me Only when people like that guy in Ferrari aren't aware of their surroundings and hit ME.

 

[Stotty]

This is not about skills. This is about the driving language. If a guy in front of me see that I am faster than him, that I am closing the gap and he doesn't care to deffend his position, why on earth would I not dive inside the corner, forcing him to go outside??? Way I do it, there is no contact trust me Only when people like that guy in Ferrari aren't aware of their surroundings and hit ME.

If you, or anyone else, thinks that overtake was ever on, you are one of the fundamental causes of other peoples misery on line.

 

[zzz_pt]

This is not about skills. This is about the driving language. If a guy in front of me see that I am faster than him, that I am closing the gap and he doesn't care to deffend his position, why on earth would I not dive inside the corner, forcing him to go outside??? I am not saying off-track I am saying outside. Which results in better corner exit anyway as I have to leave him enough room too. Way I do it, there is no contact trust me Only when people like that guy in Ferrari aren't aware of their surroundings and hit ME.

When there's no contact, it's OK. The difference is that the OP bumped the other driver and sent him spinning. That is what makes it wrong. If he had space and had overtaken the Ferrari without contact, this thread wouldn't exist.

As others have said, the Ferrari was turning already way before the OP made is move inside. OP had no right to claim the inside line and the Ferrari can slow down on the apex if he wants to keep the OP on his toes.

100% OP's fault, there's no excuse.

 

[rono_thomas]

This is not about skills. This is about the driving language. If a guy in front of me see that I am faster than him, that I am closing the gap and he doesn't care to deffend his position, why on earth would I not dive inside the corner, forcing him to go outside??? I am not saying off-track I am saying outside. Which results in better corner exit anyway as I have to leave him enough room too. Way I do it, there is no contact trust me Only when people like that guy in Ferrari aren't aware of their surroundings and hit ME.

You are wrong.

The Merc was not alongside when the Ferrari turned in on what is the driving line.

It is the responsibility of the Merc to avoid contact in this situation.

 

[Famine]

What? The Ferrari guy didn't care to deffend his position despite of his slow driving. To go "left" he'd first need to wait until the Ferrari guy actually cares to go in the corner, resulting in much slower pace.

Someone didn't rewatch the video then. The Ferrari is making a right turn ages before the following car decides to move out right from behind it.

He was never, ever going to stop that car before their paths met, and quite obviously should have gone left. The outside line is always the safest when there's a disparity in speed and braking, because no-one will turn across your path and you won't hit anyone.

But all the kids and inexperienced drivers will sling it up the inside, fail to make the turn and wipe out anyone outside them. In this case it was a Ferrari who'd picked his braking point and started to turn in (as a lead car may do), only to find a missile coming from his right with no warning or overlap.

Which hit him twice.

Had he gone outside there'd have been no contact, no spin, no SR penalty and two cars with nothing to complain about.

 

[JulesDennis]

What? The Ferrari guy didn't care to deffend his position despite of his slow driving. To go "left" he'd first need to wait until the Ferrari guy actually cares to go in the corner, resulting in much slower pace.

The wait I see it, Ferrari guy "told" him: go ahead you are clearly faster than me, I'll just stick to the outside as you go by.

The guy behind is always the one responsible of a contact/accident when that happens in a move to pass someone,even when you are lapping someone (unless break-cheching or changing lines during the overtake from the guy in front).
How fast or slow the Ferrari is,is irrelevant.Also Ferrari "forcing" OP into a much slower pace is also irrelevant.Ferrari is not blocking or changing lines all the time.You either pass in a clean manner (if you are the OP and faster than the Ferrari guy) or wait for a better oportunity to do so.
Being faster is not an excuse when you hit someone 2 times from behind mid corner,resaulting with that guy to lose control of his car,go off track or whatever.
This is again something I've said a few days ago:being the faster car does not mean you have the right to pass at all costs or that the slower guy should open the door for you/make it easy.They are fighting for position.Ferrari has the right to defend and use the line he wants.OP must overtake in a clean manner.He did not do that,its that simple.

 

[rono_thomas]

This is not about skills. This is about the driving language. If a guy in front of me see that I am faster than him, that I am closing the gap and he doesn't care to deffend his position, why on earth would I not dive inside the corner, forcing him to go outside??? I am not saying off-track I am saying outside. Which results in better corner exit anyway as I have to leave him enough room too. Way I do it, there is no contact trust me Only when people like that guy in Ferrari aren't aware of their surroundings and hit ME.

A. Attacker more than half-way alongside

In this case, the attacker is definitely more than halfway past the defender at the apex. The attacker has the right to the racing line. A collision at the apex is entirely the fault of the defender.

B. Attacker less than half-way alongside

In this case, the attacker has only their front wing alongside the defender’s rear wheel. The defender has the right to the racing line. A collision at the apex is entirely the fault of the attacker.


C. Attacker approximately half-way alongside

In this case, the attacker’s front axle is ahead of the defender’s rear axle and the two cars are approximately halfway alongside. Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared. It is in this zone that racing incidents can occur. Ayrton Senna was famous for creating situations just like this, as both attacker and defender, where the other driver would have to decide whether or not to yield to avoid a collision.

Note that this is a not a new or controversial set of guidelines. For example, here is essentially the same set of rules presented in The Williams-Renault Formula 1 Motor Racing Book, published back in 1994.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/

You are entirely wrong.

Just out of curiosity what penalty did you receive if at all @Herrybo79 ?