Gran Turismo makes me look bad

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Stotty

My other car's a Porsche
Premium
8,642
United Kingdom
London
GTP_Stotty
Brief overview of a race I had last week as an example of how I approach on-line… I know this will be common sense to the old hats, but hopefully helps those who are newer, or less experienced when it comes to racing.

GRP3 daily at Maggiore. Porsche RSR. Full grid of DRB SRS. 10 laps. Tyre wear on. Qualified 2nd, with top 5 all within 1s.

Race started, and straight away, the guy on pole (in a McLaren 650) looked wayward. He was very late on the brakes, wide of the apexes, and oversteering on the exits. There were a number of occasions on the opening lap where I could have gone for an inside pass, but I just didn’t trust him not to come back online and hit me. So I sat back and followed. 3 corners later he went in too hot again, and ran out in to the grass on the outside of the track.

I had a good exit and just drove past him, with the car in 3rd following me through (also an RSR).

So now I’m in 1st, and I start to watch the guy behind in my mirror… how’s his driving? Is he hitting the apexes? Where am I faster? Where is he faster? Where am I vulnerable to a pass?

Overall, we were VERY closely matched… I was faster through the final section of the lap, he was faster through the fast switchbacks.

The guy in 2nd made several threats to pass, but they were all 50:50 at best, and he pulled out of them in good time… but his speed, the fact that his car looked in control all the time, and that he wasn’t trying anything silly gave me the confidence to start trusting him.

3 or 4 laps in, I made a small mistake on one corner exit, got a bit of oversteer on the kerbs, and immediately realised I would be vulnerable in to the next corner if he got a good exit. Which he did.

I considered making a strong defensive move, but with the Mclaren still in 3rd, I didn’t want to slow both of us down and let him catch up. So I held my line, and he got me in to the next corner… but neither of us lost much time in the process.

I knew he was faster in that part of the track anyway, and I was confident I could get the place back.

I then followed for a lap and a half, again, watching his driving (still very good), before getting a slightly better exit out of the final turn. All along the main straight I wasn’t expecting to be able to make the overtake… I was super close, but didn’t quite have the speed to get alongside. But he braked fractionally early, and I slid up the inside in to turn 1.

There’s no way on earth I would have made that move on lap 1 or 2, with a driver I didn’t know.

He left room for me, there was some very minor door rubbing (no penalties or SR demerit), and we ended up side by side approaching turn 2. I left room for him on the inside in turn 2, but got a slightly better exit, and was able to pretty much complete the pass fully half way round the long left.

But I still left him room in to the right on to the straight though… even if you awareness of other position is really good, it’s sometime hard to know 100% if you’ve cleared the car you’re passing.

He then followed me for a couple of laps (my lead varying between 0.3 and 0.6s across a lap), before he passed me in to one of the downhill banked corners. I could have blocked, and I could have turned in on him as he was only marginally alongside. But who would that have helped?

I made what turned out to be the final pass at the start of lap 8 – a clean pass with draft along the start straight – and held the lead to the end. Brilliant race, and after swapping FRQ, we had a good chat about it on message.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Personally, I think the 3 lap format doesn’t help on-line… races are too short to be able to make assessments like this if you’re ‘set on winning’… you simply don’t have the time to ‘have a look’ at another driver and judge their ability. But I would never jump in a race and just expect everyone to approach it like I do. Always think the worst until someone demonstrates otherwise.
 
381
stevenhiggster
And this proves why being a steward and thus programming a decent driving steward system is almost impossible. So many differing opinions of who was to blame.
For me, in the real world this would be chalked up as "a racing incident". The Ferrari was going slower than necessary and did turn in on a clearly faster moving car. But at the same time the Merc should have been paying enough attention to see that the Ferrari was out of shape and allowed space for the mistake to be recovered without incident.
Thus no one is wholly to blame and it is a racing incident, imho.
 

Scaff

Moderator
26,591
United Kingdom
He/Him
ScaffUK
ScaffGTP
And this proves why being a steward and thus programming a decent driving steward system is almost impossible. So many differing opinions of who was to blame.
For me, in the real world this would be chalked up as "a racing incident". The Ferrari was going slower than necessary and did turn in on a clearly faster moving car. But at the same time the Merc should have been paying enough attention to see that the Ferrari was out of shape and allowed space for the mistake to be recovered without incident.
Thus no one is wholly to blame and it is a racing incident, imho.
Its not multi-class racing, as such that the Ferrari was slower doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Nor would it be chalked up as a racing incident wen the Merc hit the Ferrari twice!

Once maybe (but most likely not given how far back the lunge was made from), but twice. Nope that's not a racing incident (intentialy or not).
 

zzz_pt

Premium
8,125
Germany
Porto living in Hamburg
zzz_pt
And this proves why being a steward and thus programming a decent driving steward system is almost impossible. So many differing opinions of who was to blame.
For me, in the real world this would be chalked up as "a racing incident". The Ferrari was going slower than necessary and did turn in on a clearly faster moving car. But at the same time the Merc should have been paying enough attention to see that the Ferrari was out of shape and allowed space for the mistake to be recovered without incident.
Thus no one is wholly to blame and it is a racing incident, imho.

You have wrong and right opinions in this thread. It's pretty clear what was wrong. But of course if you think the Ferrari turned in into the OP, you'll think your opinion is as valid as a correct one.

Yeah, there are wrong opinions, contrary to popular clichés. You're entitled to hold an incorrect one ofc.
 
1,834
United States
United States
I have a question in this regard. I try to race as clean as possible and be as fair as I can, but this is something I have never done, and I wonder if I was expected to do, because I have seen it mentioned in a few places: If I have another racer on my tail for several laps like you describe above, am I expected to let him pass at some point?

I haven't done this so far because 1. It is racing and 2. He might not be faster than me and in return I would be stuck behind him.

You are not required or expected at all to move over for a car you are racing for position. Just because he is matching your pace and staying on your tail does not make him faster, if he is indeed faster it is his job to find a spot that he can cleanly without contact make the pass for position.

If the following car cannot find a place to make a clean pass then he does not deserve the position advancement. Some times with the differences in a way different cars run in different parts of the race track it is possible on an open clear track that the following car may have a faster or better pace but because of the difference in strong and weak points of the vehicles that following car can never pull off getting in position to make the clean pass so even though technically he may be faster he is not fast enough in the right places to make the overtake.

This is just part of what makes racing so interesting, sort of like a chess game trying to outwit and out maneuver your opponent to take victory.
Also the reason that coming in 8th can still be like a victory as your battle in that particular race was to win against the cars in front and behind you.

Also taking a normal inside defensive line to protect the easy way around is also a normal and acceptable racing tactic. That tactic forces the over taker to make a pass on the less desirable longer outside line in most corners.

What is not acceptable is weaving back and forth or abruptly changing your racing line with just the intention of trying to block a faster overtaking vehicle.
 
1,245
Greece
Greece
And this proves why being a steward and thus programming a decent driving steward system is almost impossible. So many differing opinions of who was to blame.
For me, in the real world this would be chalked up as "a racing incident". The Ferrari was going slower than necessary and did turn in on a clearly faster moving car. But at the same time the Merc should have been paying enough attention to see that the Ferrari was out of shape and allowed space for the mistake to be recovered without incident.
Thus no one is wholly to blame and it is a racing incident, imho.

Everybody can have an opinion mate.But there are rules.IRL this would be clear crystal: OP caused this by not following the basic rules in racing.
When someone try to overtake (in a corner),its his resposibility to make that happen in an clean manner (unless there is a sudden line change from the car being attacked-more than once going into the corner-,blocking ext).
Ferrari was keeping a line and did not block.He did not make any kind of mistake.Being the slower car is irrelevent.He is fighting for position after all (even if he is getting lapped he is doing nothing wrong).
OP,because he got over exited propably,was looking for space when there is non.That caused the "contact" (2 times in mid corner btw).OP just made a wrong judgment move and thats it.Its not just a racing incident and should be punished in the game (one way or another).It was not intentional but again that does not mean it was a legit move.
 
1,834
United States
United States
You're kidding right? He had that corner?? He left him space for the inside dive as he failed to realize there is a faster car behind him that will take his position if he did't defend it. And he did not. So the faster guy went inside and the guy in Ferrari clearly blocked his way, resulting in contact, which would not occur if he would not run to his path.

Go back and look at the original video, if I remember correctly freeze frame the video at about 11 seconds in, look at the position of the cars as they are entering the corner and what path those positions will take them on the race track.

if you cannot look at that video and see at the time of the freeze that the 95% or more of the Ferrari was in front of the following car, that even at that point as you look towards the apex of the corner that there was not a full racing lane open on the track and by the position of the cars that inside lane was in the process of closing down even more so by the time both cars would reach the apex the op car would be lucky to have room to have two wheels still on the racetrack without initiating contact with the leading Ferrari.

If after doing that if you still are of the opinion that the OP had clear lane and "legal clean passing opportunity" then your mentality and thought process of what constitutes clean fair racing is exactly the type of racing that prevents a "clean non contact" racing experience.

Granted this is nothing but a game, people are not injured nor are hundreds of thousands dollars worth of machinery torn up and damaged but to get as close to a realistic racing experience as possible and what I think most serious racers in this game are trying to accomplish you have to race with the mentality that those damage and injury scenarios exist in the virtual world.

If your answer does indeed project your attitude toward racing and your competitors I would not want to be in your shoes as you returned to the pits at a real world race track.
 
334
United States
United States
CopperySinger5
CopperySinger5
This happens to me literally every freaking race. People are not aware of their surroundings so this happens. You were OK going inside as he did not do any defending move he basically let you go inside and then hit you with back of his car.

I always text people to use the freaking radar and be aware of their surroundings... It's his stupidity.

The guy in Ferrari had enough room in the corner, but instead he chose to block your path.

I don't think it should be required to use a radar the split second someone a couple car links behind decides to dive bomb the corner.
If he was looking at the radar before the corner crash it would have shown the OP behind and not beside.

Its not multi-class racing, as such that the Ferrari was slower doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Nor would it be chalked up as a racing incident wen the Merc hit the Ferrari twice!

Once maybe (but most likely not given how far back the lunge was made from), but twice. Nope that's not a racing incident (intentialy or not).


Maybe for the first time ever I'm going to have to agree with Scaff and others on this one.

This was dive bombing imo and the OP has received sufficient feedback explaining his errors but still may not realize (the obvious to some of us) it was entirely his fault. It seems the OP has more experience in Timed Trials but need much more race craft experience to gain while racing with actual opponents; but if not at this this point I believe something just seems "Fishy".
 
381
stevenhiggster
I still don't think it looked like the OP was "dive bombing" though. He wasn't going too fast to take that corner, the Ferrari was going too slow for whatever reason. Yes he is entitled to dictate the speed as the leading car, but he wasn't dictating the speed, he made a mistake and was going too slow. The Merc wasn't trying to pass, he was just surprised by how slow the Ferrari was and thus had two options, hit the back of him or dive up the inside. He took the avoiding action and the Ferrari put his car in a position where contact was unavoidable. This can be clearly seen by the fact both the GTR and BMW behind were going the same speed as the Merc and were also surprised by the lack of speed from the Ferrari.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
I still don't think it looked like the OP was "dive bombing" though. He wasn't going too fast to take that corner, the Ferrari was going too slow for whatever reason. Yes he is entitled to dictate the speed as the leading car, but he wasn't dictating the speed, he made a mistake and was going too slow. The Merc wasn't trying to pass, he was just surprised by how slow the Ferrari was and thus had two options, hit the back of him or dive up the inside. He took the avoiding action and the Ferrari put his car in a position where contact was unavoidable. This can be clearly seen by the fact both the GTR and BMW behind were going the same speed as the Merc and were also surprised by the lack of speed from the Ferrari.

On that course, that is not a passing spot. That corner is a bottleneck not a pass opportunity.

That turn is so tight that there's literally only 2 lines there. The Ferrari was working the geometric line for the apex and the other line is the late brake/late apex turn, turning in hard after the blue marker for more exit speed. The Merc was not doing any of these lines. The Merc was coming in too fast and too shallow because he wanted to beat the Ferrari to the corner regardless of his lap time, he would have had to hard brake and block all three cars to not overshoot the course. It's a bull **** line.

The speed of the GTR and BMW are irrelevant, they only smashed into the Merc because of the collision bottleneck that the Merc caused. It was obvious where the Ferrari was going and where he would be, he was in position for the geometric line even if he scrubbed some speed in the dirt up to the turn.
 
334
United States
United States
CopperySinger5
CopperySinger5
I still don't think it looked like the OP was "dive bombing" though. He wasn't going too fast to take that corner, the Ferrari was going too slow for whatever reason. Yes he is entitled to dictate the speed as the leading car, but he wasn't dictating the speed, he made a mistake and was going too slow. The Merc wasn't trying to pass, he was just surprised by how slow the Ferrari was and thus had two options, hit the back of him or dive up the inside. He took the avoiding action and the Ferrari put his car in a position where contact was unavoidable. This can be clearly seen by the fact both the GTR and BMW behind were going the same speed as the Merc and were also surprised by the lack of speed from the Ferrari.

When behind someone, you should never expect them to do anything other then take the shortest route (which is smacking the apex). If you are thinking that they should be thinking what you think, you are thinking untrue.

You have to predict, you know the Ferrari in front was headed straight for the inner corner.

based off what is known we have more options than what you listed.

: go around to the outside corner (rumble strips are over there too)
: slow down and take a sharp race line entrance behind him (my favorite) you will have much more speed than him coming out, eventually passing
: if you can't do these two just run off the track to the left and call it a day until you gain experience
 
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1,245
Greece
Greece
I still don't think it looked like the OP was "dive bombing" though. He wasn't going too fast to take that corner, the Ferrari was going too slow for whatever reason. Yes he is entitled to dictate the speed as the leading car, but he wasn't dictating the speed, he made a mistake and was going too slow. The Merc wasn't trying to pass, he was just surprised by how slow the Ferrari was and thus had two options, hit the back of him or dive up the inside. He took the avoiding action and the Ferrari put his car in a position where contact was unavoidable. This can be clearly seen by the fact both the GTR and BMW behind were going the same speed as the Merc and were also surprised by the lack of speed from the Ferrari.

Again I wonder if we are watching the same replay.
Ferrari did not make any mistake (if he is "slow" has nothing to do with the subject).He did not change his line and he did not block anyone/break-check.His only mistake was that 2 corners before this,he was pushed out of the track by an "I had the right to that line" driver that gave him zero track space -that explains the "slow speed of that Ferrari-.Keep in mind that OP was even further back and had a clear view to all this.Because of that,OP was carrying more speed than the Ferrari and caught up with him 2 corners after.
OP was too agressive,hit the Ferrari 2 times mid corner going to the inside (at that time the Ferrari is already there).
He did not try to avoid the contact,he was trying to do an overtake -from the inside- and did that by hitting the Ferrari.
GTR (behind OP) did what OP did not.Used his brakes to avoid hitting OP in the same corner.
BMW did what OP was doing.Went full speed into that corner and hit OP from behind in the same corner.
To sum it up:
VW did a dirty move to Ferrari (forcing him outside of the track).
OP attacked the Ferrari in the wrong way and caused Ferrari to loose control.
GTR did the right thing to avoid contact with OP.
BMW did not break as he should and hit OP.
 
1,834
United States
United States
I still don't think it looked like the OP was "dive bombing" though. He wasn't going too fast to take that corner, the Ferrari was going too slow for whatever reason. Yes he is entitled to dictate the speed as the leading car, but he wasn't dictating the speed, he made a mistake and was going too slow. The Merc wasn't trying to pass, he was just surprised by how slow the Ferrari was and thus had two options, hit the back of him or dive up the inside. He took the avoiding action and the Ferrari put his car in a position where contact was unavoidable. This can be clearly seen by the fact both the GTR and BMW behind were going the same speed as the Merc and were also surprised by the lack of speed from the Ferrari.

I do not think that the op approached the corner with the intent of dive bombing the Ferrari. I think that the OP from lack of experience possibly saw the Ferrari was going at a slower pace and saw what he took initially to be an open inside racing lane.

It would not be the first time a racer went for an opening he thought would be there but found that space occupied with another vehicle upon arrival.

This is a good learning experience to all racers is part of being a clean racer is not just finding an opening but to correctly gain the skill to anticipate what current speeds, car racing line trajectories and upcoming track demands on all the above and how it will affect what move you may be contemplating to attempt.

This case the OP would have been better off to back off further, allow the Ferrari running his slower speed to reach the apex of the corner and cross behind the Ferrari and exit the corner in the outside lane carrying much more speed and momentum and the majority of the time with that situation would have cleared and passed the slower Ferrari with ease and no contact at all.

All racers learn from studying racing incidents that are somewhat close on the decision that was made and what the end result was from that decision.
 
334
United States
United States
CopperySinger5
CopperySinger5
Hey,

I only want to show you what happend to me, and why I am saying "i look bad".

Situation from different views can watched at the Video.

I tried to driving fair, but this guy was so much slower, as you can see in my back mirror, when I look at his view, It looks I bumped him aggressively in to the gras.

I know thats also my mistake, but I think the guy said I am an idiot.
I show this only because a lot of guys are disappointed with the driving skills, but you can see here, if you see the different views, thats not always a stupid bumbing.

For me closed the door aggressively.



Refer to Mission Challenge in Campaign mode:

1) complete stage 7 Nurburgring Meister 1-8 with all Golds

If you already did this, complete again as a refresher; I think you would "look good" after doing this.
 
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152
Germany
Germany
I still don't think it looked like the OP was "dive bombing" though. He wasn't going too fast to take that corner, the Ferrari was going too slow for whatever reason. Yes he is entitled to dictate the speed as the leading car, but he wasn't dictating the speed, he made a mistake and was going too slow. The Merc wasn't trying to pass, he was just surprised by how slow the Ferrari was and thus had two options, hit the back of him or dive up the inside. He took the avoiding action and the Ferrari put his car in a position where contact was unavoidable. This can be clearly seen by the fact both the GTR and BMW behind were going the same speed as the Merc and were also surprised by the lack of speed from the Ferrari.

That's exactly how I felt. And why I post this, diving bombing for me is something different. I am not a bad driver, not a alien, but I had a lot of good races, and good overtakes. But this forum is full of hating DIVE BOMBS; BAD DRIVERS; DAMN SYSTEM......
I know there is a mistake by mine, because I had to be more defensiv, but honestly for me at this Point, with 2 Cars in the front, and two fast cars in the back, and a surprisly slowly Ferrari I get looks bad.

What I learned now is, if I do a mistake, a corner before, its up to me, going back much slower than the cars in the back, without taking care how fast they are. Which is good, because I win 3 Races today with this handling.

Before I always let the guys pass on the inside, I would do this never again. And I am happy that the drive in the back respect this, and do not thrown me out.
 
1,245
Greece
Greece
That's exactly how I felt. And why I post this, diving bombing for me is something different. I am not a bad driver, not a alien, but I had a lot of good races, and good overtakes. But this forum is full of hating DIVE BOMBS; BAD DRIVERS; DAMN SYSTEM......
I know there is a mistake by mine, because I had to be more defensiv, but honestly for me at this Point, with 2 Cars in the front, and two fast cars in the back, and a surprisly slowly Ferrari I get looks bad.

What I learned now is, if I do a mistake, a corner before, its up to me, going back much slower than the cars in the back, without taking care how fast they are. Which is good, because I win 3 Races today with this handling.

Before I always let the guys pass on the inside, I would do this never again. And I am happy that the drive in the back respect this, and do not thrown me out.

I cannot follow your english but again I think you did not understand some things.
Being slower/faster does not matter if you keep your line.If you are in front,choose your line and keep it.You can change it one time (when you defend) -but not mid corner or when the guy that is attacking is in your side-.
If you are getting lapped by a faster car,keep your line and if possible make it easy for them -giving them a lot of room to pass you-.
When you are trying to overtake someone,its your responsibility to do that clean (no contact or as much as less possible/in either case without upsetting the car you overtake).
Bumps are gonna happen a lot of times.Dont worry about that.In some races you (and the guy around you) can both win possitions by bump-drafting each other -Nascar type of races is a prime example-.
Above all,respect other drivers and have fun.
 
152
Germany
Germany
Again I wonder if we are watching the same replay.
Ferrari did not make any mistake (if he is "slow" has nothing to do with the subject).He did not change his line and he did not block anyone/break-check.His only mistake was that 2 corners before this,he was pushed out of the track by an "I had the right to that line" driver that gave him zero track space -that explains the "slow speed of that Ferrari-.Keep in mind that OP was even further back and had a clear view to all this.Because of that,OP was carrying more speed than the Ferrari and caught up with him 2 corners after.
OP was too agressive,hit the Ferrari 2 times mid corner going to the inside (at that time the Ferrari is already there).
He did not try to avoid the contact,he was trying to do an overtake -from the inside- and did that by hitting the Ferrari.
GTR (behind OP) did what OP did not.Used his brakes to avoid hitting OP in the same corner.
BMW did what OP was doing.Went full speed into that corner and hit OP from behind in the same corner.
To sum it up:
VW did a dirty move to Ferrari (forcing him outside of the track).
OP attacked the Ferrari in the wrong way and caused Ferrari to loose control.
GTR did the right thing to avoid contact with OP.
BMW did not break as he should and hit OP.

You are right with the things, but what you not see in the second video is that the Ferrari breaks again in the full speed corner, which make a big difference, it was not my idea to overtake him. I try to avoid a crash, and used the wrong (Inside) line.

Again, I know there is a mistake by mine, but this is not "Dive Bumbing". The second hit, is because only he hold even with the contact his line, as you can see in the video I used the break.
 
152
Germany
Germany
I cannot follow your english but again I think you did not understand some things.
Being slower/faster does not matter if you keep your line.If you are in front,choose your line and keep it.You can change it one time (when you defend) -but not mid corner or when the guy that is attacking is in your side-.
If you are getting lapped by a faster car,keep your line and if possible make it easy for them -giving them a lot of room to pass you-.
When you are trying to overtake someone,its your responsibility to do that clean (no contact or as much as less possible/in either case without upsetting the car you overtake).
Bumps are gonna happen a lot of times.Dont worry about that.In some races you (and the guy around you) can both win possitions by bump-drafting each other -Nascar type of races is a prime example-.
Above all,respect other drivers and have fun.
sorry for the English...
 
1,245
Greece
Greece
You are right with the things, but what you not see in the second video is that the Ferrari breaks again in the full speed corner, which make a big difference, it was not my idea to overtake him. I try to avoid a crash, and used the wrong (Inside) line.

Again, I know there is a mistake by mine, but this is not "Dive Bumbing". The second hit, is because only he hold even with the contact his line, as you can see in the video I used the break.

He hits the breaks in order to control the car after you hit him in the first place.Either way,if you did not want to overtake him in that corner then you should have simply break really early (since you saw what happend 2 corners before with Ferrari and VW) and avoid him.
Both contacts are your fault.Ferrari had the right to hold his line,even after your first hit.
 
334
United States
United States
CopperySinger5
CopperySinger5
but this is not "Dive Bumbing". The second hit, is because only he hold even with the contact his line, as you can see in the video I used the break.

Think of a bomb that is diving. Does it show any sense or care of what it may hit? No, you didn't either. This is not to say you intentionally did it but you shown situational unawareness when you dove into the corner.
 
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4
Portugal
Portugal
whizz_pt
whizzpt
Some times we are bumped by another player and the game "blame" us for that and penalises our SR even if it's not our fault. Not fair in my point of view.
 
620
United Kingdom
Northern Ireland
GTRP_mirial
Hey,

I only want to show you what happend to me, and why I am saying "i look bad".

Situation from different views can watched at the Video.

I tried to driving fair, but this guy was so much slower, as you can see in my back mirror, when I look at his view, It looks I bumped him aggressively in to the gras.

I know thats also my mistake, but I think the guy said I am an idiot.
I show this only because a lot of guys are disappointed with the driving skills, but you can see here, if you see the different views, thats not always a stupid bumbing.

For me closed the door aggressively.

I've re-watched the video, and if that was your normal approach into that corner, then it was too early a turn-in and too late on the brakes (even if you were by yourself), but certainly 50/50 if we take into consideration your approach and the initial impact and him being too cautious as well if we assume you were caught unaware. As far as I know, it isn't unusual to not look at the car in front and to make it secondary to your primary focus....if you focus on the car in front and he goes off, then you'll likely follow him, but not in sympathy :D

But if that was an opportune move, then there was no way you were going to get through, so I have to say it was your fault taking into consideration his less than (IMO) adequate speed there too.
 
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165
United States
MI
covan2306
The way I would have seen that situation is the ferrari seemed timid, so at that point I would get the turn (where you hit him) lined up for a fast run OUT not IN, the next section of track all the way down to the hairpin is a very easy place to pressure or gain places.

Fault in this case, in my opinion would be the car that hit the Ferrari, seemed careless and impatient and could have been 100% avoided.
 

MikeV27

Premium
2,999
Canada
Kirkland Lake, Ontario.
veinzerrr
Was Ayrton Senna an asshole? Maybe.
Was Ayrton Senna a great driver? Definitely.
Would he win so many races if he didn't take his chances? I don't think so.

The whole "if you no longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver" line was just an excuse he made for crashing Prost. You can be a great driver without being an asshole.
 
7,870
GTP_Royalton
My general rule is that if the following driver does not pull out of line by the time we are within around 150 or so meters of a braking zone then Im assuming hes not going to attempt the pass and I attempt the corner as I normally would. If he does pull out of line and is within a couple of car lengths I'll go wide in the corner and leave him room to attempt the pass. This is how I handle racing against strangers.

As for making passes myself, if Im not within a car length approaching the corner, I never ever try it because more often then not he will not see or expect me to be there, rightfully.

A quick story...I was in one of those indoor electric go kart tracks that go 30, 40mph. I was trying to go around a guy on the outside along a fast sweeping bend. He didnt see me. He hit me and shot my kart straight into the wall at a very high speed almost head on. Being a real racing noob I left my hands on the wheel which resulted in me hurting my wrist. I also discovered a golf ball size bruise on my back later that evening. The lesson I learned? Never, ever trust random drivers to understand racecraft or display situational awareness. Its just not going to happen.

Expecting someone to see you coming from 8 car lengths back into a tricky tight corner thats difficult to take by yourself let alone 2 wide is not the right mindset to have. Attempting the pass on an experienced driver that you trust would have been difficult. Attempting to pass in that turn at all is extremely risky. I think people need to understand that even if a track has 15 turns, usually only 2 or 3 are safe places to pass.
 
539
United States
Minneapolis, MN
Never2fast1
Love reading this thread. SO much good information. There almost needs to be a separate section for inexperienced drivers (like me) to post videos of our mistakes and learn from the rest of you guys. Lord knows that the game doesn't do a great job of teaching racing etiquette, they expect us all to learn while online racing against other randoms.
 
94
United States
Maumee OH
You're kidding right? He had that corner?? He left him space for the inside dive as he failed to realize there is a faster car behind him that will take his position if he did't defend it. And he did not. So the faster guy went inside and the guy in Ferrari clearly blocked his way, resulting in contact, which would not occur if he would not run to his path.
Actually I think it’s great you posted this and included a comprehensive replay so thank you.

Here is a summary of the FIA rule that applies in this situation.

So the question is how much of your car you got alongside his - if you
Overlapped his axle at the apex, blame is shared, less blame is yours.



f1_apex_c.png

In this case, the attacker’s front axle is ahead of the defender’s rear axle and the two cars are approximately halfway alongside. Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared. It is in this zone that racing incidents can occur. Ayrton Senna was famous for creating situations just like this, as both attacker and defender, where the other driver would have to decide whether or not to yield to avoid a collision.


This is copied from the following link which is a nice summary of the FIA rules.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/
Case closed!!
 
531
Finland
Finland
Actually I think it’s great you posted this and included a comprehensive replay so thank you.

Here is a summary of the FIA rule that applies in this situation.

So the question is how much of your car you got alongside his - if you
Overlapped his axle at the apex, blame is shared, less blame is yours.



f1_apex_c.png

In this case, the attacker’s front axle is ahead of the defender’s rear axle and the two cars are approximately halfway alongside. Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared. It is in this zone that racing incidents can occur. Ayrton Senna was famous for creating situations just like this, as both attacker and defender, where the other driver would have to decide whether or not to yield to avoid a collision.


This is copied from the following link which is a nice summary of the FIA rules.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/

This.

But if I were in either car I would say sorry anyway because I'm such a gent ;)