Gran Turismo Sport is Now Twice the Game it Was at Launch

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, May 26, 2020.

  1. larrybr07n

    larrybr07n

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    I totally see your point, so don't get me wrong but the thing is, you don't drive every layout in the same way, so effectively they are different tracks, especially if you leave aside reverse layouts.

    For instance, is it fair to say that Grand Prix and Nordschleife are the 2 layouts of the same track? Not sure.
     
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  2. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Sure thing. What is the objective definition of the term "a full game" that you used in your alternative headline? Does Assetto Corsa Competizione meet that definition and if so, why does GT Sport not?
    Sure thing. However how you're choosing to define things is... a choice. It isn't objective, and thus is not a fact - and we can examine the rationale behind your choice.


    In GT Sport there are 83 different places you can go and drive a car and set a recorded lap time (there is an 84th, but it has no defined layout, and only appears in one place; players cannot select it as a course). I don't really know what better terminology there is than "a track" for "place you can drive a car and set a recorded lap time". Circuit also works, but has the same essential connotations. Course also works, again with the same basic meaning.

    These places are at 29 different named locations (I don't know where you're getting 31 from). But a location is just a broad geographical (whether fictional or not) brush. Let's look at Willow Springs as an example. That's a place/location. There's three different tracks on it (two of which the game allows you to drive in reverse) - and they are completely different. Three different groups of people can drive on all three simultaneously without ever interfering with any other group.

    By the argument that GT Sport has 29 tracks (again, you say 31 but the fact is that there's 29 track locations), Big Willow, Streets of Willow, and Horse Thief Mile are one track. But we've established that there's three completely unconnected circuits here that you can drive on all at the same time. That would make three tracks.

    Here's where "layout" - the term GT Sport uses - falls flat. GT Sport says there's five layouts, but really there's only three - the fact that you can drive the other way around two of the tracks does not actually change how the tracks are laid out. Everything is in the same place; the layout is no different. But you can drive, and set a lap time, on these two additional versions.

    Then there's places like Kyoto and the Nurburgring. Each has two circuits that are completely unconnected; two groups can drive both tracks simultaneously without ever meeting. However, each also has a unified layout, with new crossover sections of track that are not part of either of the other circuits - these sections of road surface are unique to that course, but you cannot drive on the 24hr version of the Nurburgring without also driving on sections of the other two tracks.

    The "location = track" argument says that Nurburgring GP and Nurburgring Nordschleife are one track, despite sharing no section of road surface, while the "place you can record a lap time = track" argument says that they are two - and the 24hr track is a third.

    Let's move to Tokyo. These six tracks look pretty obvious. It's three completely different bits of road, which you drive in opposite (Outer, Inner) directions. Except it isn't; the bulk of each of the three is the same, but the slip roads (or on/off-ramps) are different. Moreover, South Outer skips out an entire section of track that South Inner uses, as well as using different slip roads. The section from the start line to the pits of Outer is broadly the same as the section from the pits to the finish line of Inner (there's a different access road between the pits and the esses), but otherwise they use different sections of road throughout.

    Of course there are tracks where the bulk of the course is shared between two different layouts - Brands Hatch, Red Bull Ring, Blue Moon Bay, Suzuka, Autopolis, Sardegna - and others where there's literally just a corner or two that is different - Fuji, Monza, La Sarthe.

    Ultimately GT Sport has the following breakdown:
    29 geographical locations (12 post-launch)
    37 completely separate individual circuits (15 post-launch)
    83 different courses for which it is possible to record a lap time (44 post-launch)
    84 places to drive (44 post-launch)

    The argument that "it has 31 tracks" (sic) requires you to classify a rally track and three road courses as one track, and three wholly separate road courses as one track, because they are in the same geographical location (Sardegna, Willow Springs respectively). The argument that it has 83 tracks only requires you to classify somewhere you can record a lap time as a track.

    If that's your choice, that's your choice. It seems like an extremely arbitrary distinction to make, and not one borne out by facts.

    For a nice, fun note, the article doesn't contain any mention of the 83/84 figure. In fact it only mentions the locations and number of post-launch courses. My headline also contains no numbers at all...

    What people care about driving is opinion, not fact. However the facts you have stated there don't add up at all.

    Exactly what constitutes a "concept car" is up to you, but even if you limit it exclusively to Vision GT cars only there's 44 - you can cut that to 29, I think, if you exclude all variations (such as Gr.1 and Gr.X Hyundai VGTs, the four SRT Tomahawks, the three AMGs, and so on). Of course the Audi e-tron Vision GT and Bugatti Vision GT are both also actual real cars, but there's a fictional version of both in Gr.X too, so we can keep them in the list.

    Aside from those, there's a load of other concept cars. Take the Abarth BAT1, a concept car shown in 1952, or the Plymouth XNR concept from 1960. More recently there's the GR Supra Racing Concept from last year, and we can't forget the Mazda that arrived this week - a 2015 concept car developed into a GT-exclusive model. That would also ask why we've not included the Citroen GT by Citroen, which had a similar genesis (and was almost a real car), on the concept car list - and its two race car variants.

    That would then also ask questions about other GT-exclusive race cars that are not present in the real world. Have a look at the Beetle Gr.3, or the Atenza Gr.4 and Gr.3 (the Gr.4 actually has a real-world inspiration, but as that car was diesel and not 4WD, sits on the made-for-GT bench), or the mid-engined RCZ Gr.3, or its Road Car alternative, and the other six Gr.3/Gr.B road cars.

    There's a lot of cars you could class as concept cars in GT Sport, but the only way to get a number as low as the one you stated you'd have to exclude everything but the first instance of a Vision GT car - and that number is lower (but should be higher at year-end; there's two more coming).

    As for 20 pick-up trucks and 4x4s... there's two, and they're both pick-up trucks (F150 Raptor, Tundra TRD Pro). There weren't even 20 in GT6.

     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  3. Phaceless_Ph

    Phaceless_Ph

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    This thread is thoroughly entertaining for all of the wrong reasons, also, I seriously wouldn't bother arguing with @Famine when all you're bringing to the table are opinions masquerading as facts with some facts that have confirmation bias applied to them.

    Famine has all of the legitimate facts at his disposal, just take the L before you start looking stupider.


    Can't seem to find the source at the moment, but there was a small handful (5 or 6) which were sold or licensed for road use.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  4. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Citroen planned to make 10, but never did. The one concept actually worked though, albeit with a V8 instead of a hydrogen fuel cell, and it's in Citroen's museum. I keep asking to drive it :lol:
     
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  5. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Another way to look at it, my launch edition says 60GB install size. GTS is currently 103GB. 1.72 times the game it was at launch :dopey:
     
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  6. IXON009

    IXON009

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    They've included the free Scapes add-on too I think, that is really part of the game, just PD thought it would be better to make it optional.
     
  7. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Adding to Famine's post, if d25bev didn't know, these are the Gr4 & Gr3 Atenzas inspired variants.
    One that raced in the Chinese Touring Car Championship(I'm sure I posted it in the Car Suggestion thread) and the other that raced in Grand Am.
    images.jpeg images (1).jpeg
     
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  8. JTB10000

    JTB10000

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    With these intentions in mind for it before they were scraped, this kinda undermines people's speculations that Sport isn't in the same vein as the numbered games doesn't it? It seems like too much of its own thing to just be a prologue to the upcoming GT.
     
  9. The best5

    The best5

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    That is a low amount of road cars. At least for me.
     
  10. HarVee

    HarVee

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    250 road cars isn't enough?
     
  11. 05XR8

    05XR8

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  12. Phaceless_Ph

    Phaceless_Ph

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    I believe it was a Ford engine!
     
  13. DoctorNuu

    DoctorNuu (Banned)

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    It's just the best bang for the buck - EVER!

    Simply amazing, considering I got 'steelbook edition' for €35 just one month after release - due to bad (amazon) rating at the time.
    Now at €15 - it's absolutely insane.

    I wonder if the average guy has any idea how much work goes into replicating a car as a detailed 3d model. And it's costing you maybe 5 cents per car.
    On the other hand, people happily buy die-casts for $5. Or a cup of coffee.

    Now imagine you could buy clean opponents for 5c. That would be the nuts.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  14. MikeV27

    MikeV27 Premium

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    Only the track list bothered me at first. The car list wasn’t too bad imo. We had so many options for gr3 and gr4 which are the bread and butter of GTS. Less is more, in a way.
     
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  15. Phaceless_Ph

    Phaceless_Ph

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    Well, it took 3 years, but finally, someone gets it.
     
  16. DoctorNuu

    DoctorNuu (Banned)

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    Sure, without Monza, Spa and Laguna Seca, it was pretty thin on the "real world tracks" side.
    Still enough for the casual player who has not already mastered/hated all the circuits.
     
  17. redhed17

    redhed17

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    Ah, the argument comparing the cost of one thing to something completely different to try and prove its worth. :rolleyes: I'm glad you are happy and feel you got value for money, but let's not go down that road, because some ridiculous comparisons can arise.

    And for a little bit of fun, let's just say it 5c per car, times 8 million equals $400,000 per car. They are getting compensated quite well per car, and and it works out even better with fewer cars. :rolleyes: They could even pay for a few more people to know them out a bit quicker. ;) :lol:
     
  18. DoctorNuu

    DoctorNuu (Banned)

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    Ah, inventing and attacking an argument that OP did not make, and then backing it up by a nonsense calculation.
     
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  19. Whistle Snap

    Whistle Snap

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    All the course stuff from 1.14:

    The latest update has probably got all the courses set to feature in GT7 listed :eek:
     
  20. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    INTERESTING
     
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  21. CTznOfTime

    CTznOfTime

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    I just read somewhere that Kaz said Deep Forest was imported into GTS already, but due to scaling and redesign of low resolution objects up to 4k standard was taking too much resources for them to make it ready to be driven in GTS.

    Some people here may already know this fact, but I just learned about it today.

    I will put the source here if I can find it.

    Too long of a post, sorry I couldn't read everything.

    But would I be correct if I say:

    A location may have several different tracks.
    And each track may have different layout.
    So in conclusion, can we just say that GTS has 83 different layouts in total?

    Edit:
    And for each layout, you may or may not run it in reverse...
     
  22. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    Did someone say Deep Forest? ;)



    No need to wait until GT7 if you have AC & PC :D
     
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  23. HarVee

    HarVee

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    Yeah but AC has nothing to do with GT franchise though. They're different games on different platforms so I don't see how implying that having a mod for different PC game is the same equivalent as driving the course in its native series.
     
  24. Neddo

    Neddo

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  25. Rubrbrnr

    Rubrbrnr

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    Interesting thread. I’ve been on hiatus from sim racing for awhile after being a diehard GT fan from Gt4 thru Gt6. After diving briefly into AC and PC, I gave GTS a pass, but with GT7 on the horizon I wanted to see what I’ve been missing (if anything).

    They key thing that struck me about the 140+ comments so far is that almost all the comments focus on content. I didn’t see any mention of issues with physics, FFB, annoying settings, annoying bugs/glitches. Putting GTS content aside for a minute, the quality framework that GT has always been built on is at the core of what makes GT special (at least to me) and is the assurance I was looking for to look at jumping back in with GT7 (whenever that might be).
     
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  26. tankuroded

    tankuroded

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  27. Neddo

    Neddo

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  28. NanoSaibou

    NanoSaibou

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  29. anthonyfa18

    anthonyfa18

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    it funny how fast people make update and mod for acc but yet pd takes forever to give us a track, I don’t understand why we can’t have deep forest and midfield or even high speed ring, come in pd wake up
     
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  30. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    It's not ACC it's the first AC game ;).... and if PD released Deep Forest in that state people would have a fit. Because ''the trees, the grass, the car sounds'' etc. etc. :sly: