Gran Turismo Sport Update v1.61 Arrives

231
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Great post.

But I think I disagree with the machine part. I believe machine could be better than human in most ways. And the issue with GT Sport is the association with the FIA which limits what can be done in the game.

I feel GT Sport is emulating FIA rules. I also feel a machine based penalty system would be more logical if the FIA weren't involved/considered the default.

I like the partnership between GT and FIA. But I believe it's the FIA that could learn from the game and not the other way around when it comes to penalties in motor sports.

When people complain about the GT Sport penalty system they need to consider the real life equivalent. It's not like F1 races have a better system is it? So when people complain about the GT Sport penalty system I think it's because they know it could be better than the real thing.

Thing is, when you think about it, on paper it really could be better. The GT Sport automated penalty system doesn't have to deal with multiple people's opinions, nor does it have to deal with favoritism and corruption (*cough* Ferrari International Assistance *cough*).

But the problem is how do you implement it so it makes sense? Let's actually work together here because I really do care for this kinda stuff :cheers:.

-Track limits: This is one part that really doesn't have to be governed by humans at all. If you go off track, penalty and that's the end of that, however this could be improved.

Most people go off track not to cut and abuse track limits but simply because they made a mistake and accidentally cut a corner. In a battle they could've easily lost a position already, but also, they could've gotten a penalty that wasn't really warranted. How do you improve this? I had a few ideas.

Firstly, do it like the FIA does in real life since you are officially sponsored by them and implement return routes like those that are in F1 and such. Return routes are simple enough to understand for everybody; cut the corner? Go through this longer path to rejoin the track safely and we don't have to penalize you. It just works.

Track limit violations are okay in most tracks but the question remains, how much track IS too much track to abuse? La Sarthe needs fixing for example; wildly inconsistent between different corners and different sectors, sometimes penalizing you and sometimes not. It's a downright mess :boggled:. Could say that it's a bit too strict, but I guess it's added challenge.

Nurb GP for example though, could do with being more strict. You can still use miles of runoff at turn 3/4 to set yourself up for the short straight and it's so sad to see.

That's my start, what else can we do? Well, contact of course! Now I think this would take so much time it's not viable / it's impossible to program but here goes.

You could program the penalty system to act based on gaps. For example, PD could calculate the distance in which a car would have an overlap (as minimal as can be) and go from there; since there is overlap, a divebombing penalty can't be applied unless the inside car goes wildly off it's own racing line and pushes the outside car away; maybe take into consideration multiple factors such as track conditions (is it raining, therefore causing reduced grip?), tire wear (are the tires worn for both cars, maybe having caused an accident?), etcétera. But still hold the car on the inside liable for like 50% of the blame; no matter the conditions, it's their job to make the overtake stick in a fair and clean manner.

How do you punish defending like a 🤬? Well... also quite simple, maybe. Straight line weaving could be seen like this; have the racing line be programmed in, and take into account the car in front and the car behind. If the car in front changes it's course more than twice (as per FIA rules you can only move once to break the tow/slipstream and move back to your original position), you could issue an unfair weaving penalty as they are trying to either block or break the tow in an unsportsmanlike manner.

The car/s behind wouldn't be in the wrong in this situation as they are trying to follow the tow of the leading car.

This is a start, but it's all mega complicated stuff to think about, much less to program efficiently; so much so we'd probably have to wait for Gran Turismo 21 to get it all. But I digress. What are your thoughts and ideas for this? :cheers:
 

Touring Mars

Pie variant
Moderator
24,769
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
GTP_Mars
I wasn't able to download the update because there was apparently not enough storage space on the console, but there was around 80GB left, so I don't know why the update wouldn't download.... and, thanks to that, I effectively can't play the game until I cleared enough space... anyone know what was going on with that?

I ended up deleting a new game I downloaded from PS Plus and the update started after that... but it's only a few hundred MB??
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,710
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
I wasn't able to download the update because there was apparently not enough storage space on the console, but there was around 80GB left, so I don't know why the update wouldn't download.... and, thanks to that, I effectively can't play the game until I cleared enough space... anyone know what was going on with that?
The PS4 filesystem, like PS3, copies the entire install to implement an update. You always need at least enough space to do that.
 

Touring Mars

Pie variant
Moderator
24,769
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
GTP_Mars
The PS4 filesystem, like PS3, copies the entire install to implement an update. You always need at least enough space to do that.
I thought that might be the case... it is a bit of a problem, though, now that the game is twice as big as it was when it was first installed... since now GT Sport requires you to devote over 25% of the entire storage of a 1TB PS4 to it just to permit regular play.
 
637
Canada
Canada
xPat_McCrotchxx
I thought that might be the case... it is a bit of a problem, though, now that the game is twice as big as it was when it was first installed... since now GT Sport requires you to devote over 25% of the entire storage of a 1TB PS4 to it just to permit regular play.

my ps4 only has GT, PC2, ACC, and F1 2020 on the 500GB HDD and it is full. Everything else has to go on my 1.5TB external. Without my external i wouldn't be able to have over half my games. I use one usb slot for my headset and one for my wheel so my racing games have to be on the internal HD. Dirt Rally 2.0 got cut for F1 2020. Very annoying. i have 76.22 free but GT is 112GB now so every update i gotta find something to delete like video clips.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,710
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
I thought that might be the case... it is a bit of a problem, though, now that the game is twice as big as it was when it was first installed... since now GT Sport requires you to devote over 25% of the entire storage of a 1TB PS4 to it just to permit regular play.
Indeed. If you're a massive triple-A title whore you can basically have two games. I picked up a 4TB external a couple of weeks back for a reasonable quantity of coins, because I've had two games in to review in the past month and there's more to come.
I use one usb slot for my headset and one for my wheel so my racing games have to be on the internal HD.
Exactly what I do :D
 
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2,100
Canada
Canada
Update 1.61 penalty system sucks and destroys the game. After yesterdays update i played some races after the update. My SR dropped like crazy. I always try to have a fair race. Nothing big happened, got penalties for some small bumps with other cars, mostly when i was hit from behind and therefore bumped into a car in front of me. Just a 3 sec penalty. PD does to have to do his homework again. IT spoils the game.

Regards from the Netherlands
Mart
It's insane. I started the night on SR89 and ended up being reset after 3 races. Most of the time it was me being hit, I made justv2 errors that ended in contact and was reset. Like come the heck on.
 
1,465
Germany
Ludwigsburg, Germany
RocketJoe1-61
... because I only own 2 games. :indiff:

Only 2
IMG_0736.JPG
games ? :)
 

RACECAR

Owner/Promoter/Organizer/Driver/ETC
Premium
32,880
United States
Dallas,Texas
GTP_RACECAR
Love how it's only after this update that now I suddenly encounter way more people who cannot control their cars and in due course, cause me to bump into them due to the suddenly lost in speed and my brakes doing nothing to stop it, giving me a 2 second penalty as if I was taking them out. Vision GTs, Nope. LMP1 Hybrids, Nope. LMP1 diesels, Nope. Group C, Nope. It's like watching that very first race on iRacing after brand new content comes where everyone mindlessly jumps into the new cars and immediately show no sense of car control and a complete lack of practice (Including the good ole' ARCA brakes).

Think I'm done wasting my time on what WAS the easiest combo of the week for cheesing the clean race accomplishment.
 

LeGeNd-1

Premium
6,810
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
Can you actually look at the diff of the M6 and say “that’s how it should be”? Like seriously mate, the stock tune works for some cars far better than others especially in Group 3. The tunes themselves as Gr.3 tunes are trash, and as such they are terrible to drive in comparison to even just a base Gr.3 tune with actual rake and front downforce. And the fact that you write off tuning as “oh it’s unrealistic because of this one example from the Nations T16” is quite insulting. I wouldn’t have a problem with fixed setups if the setups weren’t terrible, with some cars outright needing a rework in how their tunes are.

To comment on your 99% vs 1% comment: tuning your car is part of being a racing driver itself, knowing how to adjust the car and what adjustments need to be made to suit the circuit and conditions. Nothing is stopping these 99%ers from learning how to tune.

I agree with this. ACC for example has specific preset tunes for every car that is different for every track, and the devs got these baseline numbers from the race teams themselves. Whereas GTS has the same values for ARB/camber/toe/LSD/downforce for every single car. It's just daft. I'm not expecting PD to have specific default tunes for every track, but the base tune for a lot of cars could be improved massively with a few small tweaks. The LSD is a glaring one. The Blancpain GT3 cars have high Decel and low Accel, but all the default values are opposite :boggled:

I still think open tuning in FIA is a bad idea though (unless it's just a one off thing like last season's FuguZ/F1500). The championship then becomes who has the most free time to experiment and/or willing to pay money to buy tunes (already happened in the F1500 race).

Yep the slipstream is now back to 8 tenths but it has also gone back to the strength of version 1.56 from what i can tell. You can see the difference in strength between 1.56 and what it was until this update in this video of mine


Think they were right to go back to 8 tenths but should have kept the strength at the 1.57 version

Thanks for testing this. Classic PD though, they have to create more problems with every solution. The 1.57 slip was already perfect for racing. They just need to turn off slipstream effect completely in quali. With the new slipstream, everyone is going to qualify and finish in the same position. Especially because dirty air is still pretty bad and you don't get enough speed benefit from the slip now.

Thing is, when you think about it, on paper it really could be better. The GT Sport automated penalty system doesn't have to deal with multiple people's opinions, nor does it have to deal with favoritism and corruption (*cough* Ferrari International Assistance *cough*).

But the problem is how do you implement it so it makes sense? Let's actually work together here because I really do care for this kinda stuff :cheers:.

-Track limits: This is one part that really doesn't have to be governed by humans at all. If you go off track, penalty and that's the end of that, however this could be improved.

Most people go off track not to cut and abuse track limits but simply because they made a mistake and accidentally cut a corner. In a battle they could've easily lost a position already, but also, they could've gotten a penalty that wasn't really warranted. How do you improve this? I had a few ideas.

Firstly, do it like the FIA does in real life since you are officially sponsored by them and implement return routes like those that are in F1 and such. Return routes are simple enough to understand for everybody; cut the corner? Go through this longer path to rejoin the track safely and we don't have to penalize you. It just works.

Track limit violations are okay in most tracks but the question remains, how much track IS too much track to abuse? La Sarthe needs fixing for example; wildly inconsistent between different corners and different sectors, sometimes penalizing you and sometimes not. It's a downright mess :boggled:. Could say that it's a bit too strict, but I guess it's added challenge.

Nurb GP for example though, could do with being more strict. You can still use miles of runoff at turn 3/4 to set yourself up for the short straight and it's so sad to see.

That's my start, what else can we do? Well, contact of course! Now I think this would take so much time it's not viable / it's impossible to program but here goes.

You could program the penalty system to act based on gaps. For example, PD could calculate the distance in which a car would have an overlap (as minimal as can be) and go from there; since there is overlap, a divebombing penalty can't be applied unless the inside car goes wildly off it's own racing line and pushes the outside car away; maybe take into consideration multiple factors such as track conditions (is it raining, therefore causing reduced grip?), tire wear (are the tires worn for both cars, maybe having caused an accident?), etcétera. But still hold the car on the inside liable for like 50% of the blame; no matter the conditions, it's their job to make the overtake stick in a fair and clean manner.

How do you punish defending like a 🤬? Well... also quite simple, maybe. Straight line weaving could be seen like this; have the racing line be programmed in, and take into account the car in front and the car behind. If the car in front changes it's course more than twice (as per FIA rules you can only move once to break the tow/slipstream and move back to your original position), you could issue an unfair weaving penalty as they are trying to either block or break the tow in an unsportsmanlike manner.

The car/s behind wouldn't be in the wrong in this situation as they are trying to follow the tow of the leading car.

This is a start, but it's all mega complicated stuff to think about, much less to program efficiently; so much so we'd probably have to wait for Gran Turismo 21 to get it all. But I digress. What are your thoughts and ideas for this? :cheers:

Great posts mate 👍

I agree the perfect penalty system is very hard to program and take into account all situations. IMO, the solution is to combine programming with human policing, and then feed that into a machine learning AI algorithm. So let's say for every top split FIA race in every region, someone at PD watches the replay and analyses every incident (any contact, any off track excursions, irrespective of whether the penalty system is triggered). Then they feedback their decision into the "penalty AI". Over time the penalty AI will evolve on its own, making its own fine tuning to its program to become more human like in its judgement and hopefully, with enough data one day it can be pretty close to a real human in deciding who to punish.

Of course, PD could then accidentally create Skynet and it will the end of humanity :lol:
 
231
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Great posts mate 👍

I agree the perfect penalty system is very hard to program and take into account all situations. IMO, the solution is to combine programming with human policing, and then feed that into a machine learning AI algorithm. So let's say for every top split FIA race in every region, someone at PD watches the replay and analyses every incident (any contact, any off track excursions, irrespective of whether the penalty system is triggered). Then they feedback their decision into the "penalty AI". Over time the penalty AI will evolve on its own, making its own fine tuning to its program to become more human like in its judgement and hopefully, with enough data one day it can be pretty close to a real human in deciding who to punish.

Of course, PD could then accidentally create Skynet and it will the end of humanity :lol:

I actually thought about this too, but in a different manner, when I went to sleep yesterday (yes, I take a while to fall asleep); do what CS:GO does.

Yeah, I mentioned CS:GO in a racing game forum, but hear me out because this is not off-topic; CS:GO has this feature called Overwatch (no, not the game), in which a player that has been reported multiple times has a demo (basically a replay of the match) uploaded to the system. Players that have a rank high enough to unlock the Overwatch feature can then download that demo, watch it, and give a verdict as to if the player in question was guilty of unsportsmanlike behavior: stuff like aimbot, wallhacks, griefing his teammates / trolling and so on, and then if enough positive verdicts are given, the player is banned. The reported player also appears as simply "The Suspect", to hide their identity and so does everyone else in his match, appearing with names like "Goose" or "Dolphin".

PD could implement something like this. Seriously, it should be pretty easy. Make it so that players with a high sportsmanship rating can access this feature, give a verdict if the reported player is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct, and have the system ban or restrict the player from Sport-mode related play (maybe give them a badge too so that other players know that they are indeed banned from Sport, mostly useful for lobbies that want clean racing; you can instantly kick them because they are untrustworthy people).

Not only this but the penalty system itself could in some way that I don't know how to deduce because I am not a programmer learn from the verdicts given by players on what is wrong and penalizable and what is good racing. Just my other 2 cents. :cheers:
 
1
Australia
Australia
I was looking forward to racing last night in the dailies after a readjustment to the penalty system. What a joke! My SR took a big hit even when I was being hit! This game has been out for how long, and they still struggle to get it right. I understand it can never be perfect but bugger me they've had long enough to get it somewhere right. Is this what we have to look forward to with GT7?
 
1,409
I will never understand why PD doesn't hand out penalty to both cars during contact.

Or at least a variant that uses shared penalty whenever the penalty system is in doubt.

The current system is rolling the dice every time contact is made and it just seems so random.
 
38,483
Australia
The Bronx
Finished my last Nations race and noticed the tyres stayed activated.
Was in my home screen, View car, Arcade race at Northern Isle, Custom Race loading screen before Big Willow, a Scape. Turned off PS4. Turned it back on. Tyres still activated. Tried another Scape and stickers still on.
IMG_20200718_214012.jpg
IMG_20200718_214021.jpg
IMG_20200718_214003.jpg
IMG_20200718_214028.jpg
IMG_20200718_214035.jpg


Entered livery editor. Open current livery. Exit without saving. Still activated. Enter livery. Place default livery. Save. No tyre branding.

Wonder if it'll stay active next time I do an FIA GR.4 race.
 
531
Finland
Finland
I came here to once again voice my displeasure about another crap update but then read this post as quoted.

Great post.

This is the type of post that makes PD get on my nerves even more because a random person (sorry I'm sure you're very smart) can provide solid ideas about how this game should have been from the bloody start. No hindsight should be needed as these are supposed to be a very experienced dev company and plenty of feedback was given anyway through previous GT games, and there are other racing games to draw inspiration from. Seriously just wtaf are PD thinking with laughable ridiculous penalty system. "Do they think" is a more appropriate rhetorical question. Trying to have a proper race at Lemons this week the penalties just seems totally random and the penalties are more sensitive in the race compared to qualy?



Thing is, when you think about it, on paper it really could be better. The GT Sport automated penalty system doesn't have to deal with multiple people's opinions, nor does it have to deal with favoritism and corruption (*cough* Ferrari International Assistance *cough*).

But the problem is how do you implement it so it makes sense? Let's actually work together here because I really do care for this kinda stuff :cheers:.

-Track limits: This is one part that really doesn't have to be governed by humans at all. If you go off track, penalty and that's the end of that, however this could be improved.

Most people go off track not to cut and abuse track limits but simply because they made a mistake and accidentally cut a corner. In a battle they could've easily lost a position already, but also, they could've gotten a penalty that wasn't really warranted. How do you improve this? I had a few ideas.

Firstly, do it like the FIA does in real life since you are officially sponsored by them and implement return routes like those that are in F1 and such. Return routes are simple enough to understand for everybody; cut the corner? Go through this longer path to rejoin the track safely and we don't have to penalize you. It just works.

Track limit violations are okay in most tracks but the question remains, how much track IS too much track to abuse? La Sarthe needs fixing for example; wildly inconsistent between different corners and different sectors, sometimes penalizing you and sometimes not. It's a downright mess :boggled:. Could say that it's a bit too strict, but I guess it's added challenge.

Nurb GP for example though, could do with being more strict. You can still use miles of runoff at turn 3/4 to set yourself up for the short straight and it's so sad to see.

That's my start, what else can we do? Well, contact of course! Now I think this would take so much time it's not viable / it's impossible to program but here goes.

You could program the penalty system to act based on gaps. For example, PD could calculate the distance in which a car would have an overlap (as minimal as can be) and go from there; since there is overlap, a divebombing penalty can't be applied unless the inside car goes wildly off it's own racing line and pushes the outside car away; maybe take into consideration multiple factors such as track conditions (is it raining, therefore causing reduced grip?), tire wear (are the tires worn for both cars, maybe having caused an accident?), etcétera. But still hold the car on the inside liable for like 50% of the blame; no matter the conditions, it's their job to make the overtake stick in a fair and clean manner.

How do you punish defending like a 🤬? Well... also quite simple, maybe. Straight line weaving could be seen like this; have the racing line be programmed in, and take into account the car in front and the car behind. If the car in front changes it's course more than twice (as per FIA rules you can only move once to break the tow/slipstream and move back to your original position), you could issue an unfair weaving penalty as they are trying to either block or break the tow in an unsportsmanlike manner.

The car/s behind wouldn't be in the wrong in this situation as they are trying to follow the tow of the leading car.

This is a start, but it's all mega complicated stuff to think about, much less to program efficiently; so much so we'd probably have to wait for Gran Turismo 21 to get it all. But I digress. What are your thoughts and ideas for this? :cheers:
 

LeGeNd-1

Premium
6,810
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
Another idea I have with penalties: the system should take into account the two driver's historical SR rating if there is a marginal incident. The driver with lower historical average in theory is more likely to be the one at fault, and should have more likelihood to cop the penalty.

The problem of course, SR 99 is too easy to maintain these days. I've seen lots of dirty drivers where their SR graph on kudosprime goes /\/\/\/\/\ but since the start of the year it has been ---------. If you divebomb someone at the start of a FIA race, you lose maybe 6 SR but because you're now in last place and driving alone, you'll naturally build back the SR to 99 by the end of the race. It's a fail system. IMO, the SR should only be decided after the whole race is complete. Big crashes -10, small crashes -5, track cuts/wallriding -1 for every offence. Then you need to do a full clean race to regain 1 SR. The game tracks your current SR (for race matching purposes), and also the historical average (for penalty assignment). I feel it would help massively with reducing false positives and false negatives.

ACC have this sophisticated system which Aris (the main developer) explained well. I don't know why PD with all their resources still has such a primitive system.
 
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3,879
Australia
Australia
I think the series needs to stop modelling so many tracks with tarmac run-off. No-one tries to carry extra speed by running wide on corner exit at Brands Hatch, Autopolis or Willow Springs, because they'll end up beached or in the wall.
 
16
United States
United States
j-2k
Noticed that they force the new Michelin tire graphics on your car in FIA GT races despite your livery editor choice or the fact that Gr.4 cars don't have tire graphics.
 
637
Australia
Australia
Noticed that they force the new Michelin tire graphics on your car in FIA GT races despite your livery editor choice or the fact that Gr.4 cars don't have tire graphics.

I think it looks great, personally. They also appear on the N-class R32.

For GT7 I hope they add the option of tyre stickers on any car... will need some work as there are variable tyre profiles for many classes.

Another idea I have with penalties: the system should take into account the two driver's historical SR rating if there is a marginal incident. The problem of course, SR 99 is too easy to maintain these days. I've seen lots of dirty drivers where their SR graph on kudosprime goes /\/\/\/\/\ but since the start of the year it has been ---------. If you divebomb someone at the start of a FIA race, you lose maybe 6 SR but because you're now in last place and driving alone, you'll naturally build back the SR to 99 by the end of the race. It's a fail system. IMO, the SR should only be decided after the whole race is complete. Big crashes -10, small crashes -5, track cuts/wallriding -1 for every offence. Then you need to do a full clean race to regain 1 SR. The game tracks your current SR, and also the historical average. I feel it would help massively with reducing false positives and false negatives.

ACC have this sophisticated system which Aris (the main developer) explained well. I don't know why PD with all their resources still has such a primitive system.

At this point I would prefer that PD revert the penalty system changes to the previous update, and then leave it alone until GT7 where they can implement a new system.

After 3 years I don't think it can be fixed by just patching it.
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
If you look at it, it’s not a penalty system. It’s a driver rating system. ACC does 2 things I like
1. Shared fault system related to contact
2. System is always on anytime you are driving., smash past an AI? Rating suffers. Crash in practice? Rating down.

Really the purpose should be to sort drivers by skill and match them.
With shared fault and proper scoring imo after some time quality drivers would almost never see the other types.
Shared fault is fair maybe not with each instance but over time drivers with less would be grouped together and the other end would be wreckfest.

Edit I will say too I like the riskiness of the dailies. Today I was in rooms from b sr to 99.
There’s all types out there.
One more thing the rating should follow the track and class of car.

Final edit
You know GTS is fun. The ups the downs, the imperfections, it’s very public. I think that’s a huge strength. You log on and race, there’s always races.
I like the more sim side like ACC also, but you can end up with ‘sim superior’ types with no offense a long pole up the Keester who are not into fun.
I don’t need an hour long endurance race with super strict rules to have fun. Tbh that’s more like work.
I play GTS the most because it’s still fun. I know most players don’t use cockpit view or wheel but I don’t care. From my first person view I am racing other drivers and that’s what’s important. Hate to say it but I enjoy dealing with dirty players sometimes.
Just going balls out is fun.
 
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mef

209
GTP_Mef
ACC for example has specific preset tunes for every car that is different for every track, and the devs got these baseline numbers from the race teams themselves. Whereas GTS has the same values for ARB/camber/toe/LSD/downforce for every single car.

What makes you think the (player facing) GTS alignment settings are the values used by the physics engine? It is quite possible the shown values to the users are offsets, chosen to simplify the presentation of tuning to not confuse novice players.

I do agree it would be nice to have the actual measurements, but it can't be assumed.

Given that the cars in GTS drive quite realistically and differently I would think every car has unique alignment settings close to their stock alignment from factory. That is what PD do, I don't think it's fair to assume they 'wing' stuff like this without research.
 
38,483
Australia
The Bronx
mef
What makes you think the (player facing) GTS alignment settings are the values used by the physics engine? It is quite possible the shown values to the users are offsets, chosen to simplify the presentation of tuning to not confuse novice players.

I do agree it would be nice to have the actual measurements, but it can't be assumed.

Given that the cars in GTS drive quite realistically and differently I would think every car has unique alignment settings close to their stock alignment from factory. That is what PD do, I don't think it's fair to assume they 'wing' stuff like this without research.
The only cars I've noticed close to any type of stock setting, are the Porsche 996 & 997. I've posted those cars' Porsche Cup car settings in the tuning forum.

PD do wing the set ups. The real '65 Mini Cooper S, do not have a rear anti roll bar. Can't even set rear camber & toe angle. In the game, it has a suspension set up similar to every other FF car in the game.

It's not fair to assume novice players wouldn't understand the different values for each car.
 

TonyJZX

(Banned)
3,945
Australia
Australia
The base tuning is odd. How can anyone come to any other conclusion?

Why does every car have +0.60 rear toe? Why does every car 7 front 4 rear anti roll bar?

Its clear that they have one setup for everything and there's something further underneath that sets the handling.

In their defence it would be hard to expect every car to have a unique tune.

I also think that the vast majority of players do not understand the intracacies of tuning the "PD way".

Further to the above point... yes there are a few cars I've come across myself in the real world that do not have the ability to set camber toe especially on RWD cars and I assume the simpler rear suspension cars that have say a live rear axle or trailing arms.

Have you looked under the rear of a budget FWD hatch? There's not much going on. Nor a 1950/60/70s live axle leaf sprung car.
 
8,187
Canada
Canada
Indeed. If you're a massive triple-A title whore you can basically have two games. I picked up a 4TB external a couple of weeks back for a reasonable quantity of coins, because I've had two games in to review in the past month and there's more to come.

Exactly what I do :D

I use a USB adapter plugged in so I can have more than 2 USB slots for things like that. :)

80331294-24A3-4768-BE7C-B1F82E8EDA84.jpeg
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
Re tuning.
It’s not fun. The way I look at it I have a limited playtime. I like the GTS way. You have exact same spec capable of top ten time. No messing about with your time tinkering with sliders.
Tbh I’ve done tuning time trials but I don’t like them much.
Is that realistic compared to real racing no.
Is it better for a game? Imo yes.
These games already require a lot of time in. I personally don’t want that time to be spent messing about with camber toe gears etc.
Yes I know in terms of real life it’s opposite reality. But imo it’s better.