Gran Turismo Sport Update v1.61 Arrives

3,047
Canada
Canada
Kaizen-Teian
Racing is a contact sport, not everything needs penalising.
Not disagreeing with you entirely. But per the Etiquette video -

"Motor sport is called a non-contact sport. That means it is a sport that absolutely does not allow contact with others.

But in order to achieve this, it is not enough to have a strict set of rules. It is extremely important that everyone works to avoid things that make you look bad. "

I interpret this to mean contact should be avoided. And the ultimate goal (in perfect circumstances) being contact free racing.
 
84
United Kingdom
Cardiff
NGR_ANDY
Question about GT League. I wonder if the game in it's final form is going to be 100% complete = level 50?

As of update 1.59, there's 299 races and 45 events. I believe completing those events once each, plus the Missions, Challenges and Experience is still not enough to reach level 50. But it may be close.

No it won't, you'll have to keep grinding away to reach that milestone.
 
645
Canada
Canada
xPat_McCrotchxx
All you have to do is watch a few real races to realize it most definitely is a contact sport. Not contact sport in the way that you hip check other cars off track but in racing there is going to be contact, trading paint etc its just going to happen and most of the time nobody gets screwed over. Some people on gt be acting like real race cars never touch and drivers are perfect. Cars are gonna touch and bang a bit. grow a set and deal with it. Jesus. Like maxpower is saying there is some contact in racing and not every slight touch is a penalty.
 
1,429
All you have to do is watch a few real races to realize it most definitely is a contact sport. Not contact sport in the way that you hip check other cars off track but in racing there is going to be contact, trading paint etc its just going to happen and most of the time nobody gets screwed over. Some people on gt be acting like real race cars never touch and drivers are perfect. Cars are gonna touch and bang a bit. grow a set and deal with it. Jesus. Like maxpower is saying there is some contact in racing and not every slight touch is a penalty.

Real races have the advantage of light contact that doesn't matter, in GT-Sport light contact can punt cars from the track. Ohh wait the same happens in real races.. because trading paint is not something you want to do in real races..



And what does Jesus and leaving puberty have to do with this discussion?
 
645
Canada
Canada
xPat_McCrotchxx
Real races have the advantage of light contact that doesn't matter, in GT-Sport light contact can punt cars from the track. Ohh wait the same happens in real races.. because trading paint is not something you want to do in real races..



And what does Jesus and leaving puberty have to do with this discussion?


cool story bud but i said contact is going to happen which it does in that video. i didn't say go hit other cars on purpose. A 2 minute clip of bathurst doesn't really prove anything especially when those cars aren't even in gt sport..
 
104
United States
United States
All you have to do is watch a few real races to realize it most definitely is a contact sport. Not contact sport in the way that you hip check other cars off track but in racing there is going to be contact, trading paint etc its just going to happen and most of the time nobody gets screwed over. Some people on gt be acting like real race cars never touch and drivers are perfect. Cars are gonna touch and bang a bit. grow a set and deal with it. Jesus. Like maxpower is saying there is some contact in racing and not every slight touch is a penalty.

well most races especially the entertaining ones have some form of contact ...even f1 has tires hitting each other

I think if you incorporated a better damage algorithm that could help change peoples driving habits
 
1,429
cool story bud but i said contact is going to happen which it does in that video. i didn't say go hit other cars on purpose. A 2 minute clip of bathurst doesn't really prove anything especially when those cars aren't even in gt sport..

So you agree that it isn't a contact sport! See it wasn't that hard.
 
645
Canada
Canada
xPat_McCrotchxx
So you agree that it isn't a contact sport! See it wasn't that hard.

qo2X8Zo.gif
 

oneloops

(Banned)
723
United States
United States
All you have to do is watch a few real races to realize it most definitely is a contact sport. Not contact sport in the way that you hip check other cars off track but in racing there is going to be contact, trading paint etc its just going to happen and most of the time nobody gets screwed over. Some people on gt be acting like real race cars never touch and drivers are perfect. Cars are gonna touch and bang a bit. grow a set and deal with it. Jesus. Like maxpower is saying there is some contact in racing and not every slight touch is a penalty.

Every contact is analysed by the jury if it was intentionated and/or if it caused bad consequences to the innocent driver and/or if it caused benefit to the guilty driver of the contact action... or if it could be avoided.

Only Nascar, rallycross and some others competitions allows "some level" of contact. For the rest, it's not allowed and it's analysed and punished by the rules.
 
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6
Netherlands
Netherlands
Update 1.61 penalty system sucks and destroys the game. After yesterdays update i played some races after the update. My SR dropped like crazy. I always try to have a fair race. Nothing big happened, got penalties for some small bumps with other cars, mostly when i was hit from behind and therefore bumped into a car in front of me. Just a 3 sec penalty. PD does to have to do his homework again. IT spoils the game.

Regards from the Netherlands
Mart
 
231
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Thing is, when you analyse a racing incident there isn't a crystal-clear, "either contact is allowed or contact is not allowed" kind of ideal while going into it. Sure, you can say that racing is a non-contact sport and while that is true, you cannot go into a race and expect it to be fully contact-free, as others have stated; we aren't gaming AIs programmed to drive on racing lines (and even then, AIs can crash).

When a racing incident does happen, it's up to the stewards in the real racing world to determine the course of action, but they have three main things to follow:

*The letter of the law,
*The spirit of the law,
*The spirit of competition.

Basically, while you have to respect the law and it's main intent; that being the mantra that racing is a non-contact sport, you have to take that letter and with it, and your own view of the law (the spirit of the law), call the situation appropiately, while keeping in mind the spirit of competition.

Let's say two Gr.3 cars have been in a battle around the Nürburgring GP, and it's been a great race for a ton of laps; spectators on their feet, commentators on TV super excited and shouting at every move the drivers give, and then contact happens. The car behind gave up and divebombed the leading car into turn 1, and ran away with the leadership for the race.

Letter of the law: Racing is a non-contact sport: contact happened. •

Spirit of the law: The view that most people would have is that a bit of contact is okay as long as it doesn't influence the race result, but must be avoided if possible. •

Spirit of competition: Car number 2 gained an unfair advantage over car number 1 by divebombing, barging through, and ruining the show that was making the spectators all fired up. •

In this case, almost everyone would issue a penalty to car number 2, probably a harsh one at that like a stop-and-go or a 10-second penalty. Thing is, not every incident is crystal clear in the real world and neither are they on GT Sport and by extent, all other racing simulators.

In those instances where contact happens or something funky happens (like Vettel going off track in the 2019 Canadian GP), more time is required for the stewards to come to a consensus. In the example I put, a great race was being given between Vettel and Hamilton, before Vettel went off track and had to cut the corner and rejoined pretty unsafely due to the lack of grip, causing Hamilton to have to back off, and both cars continuing in the same positions.

Did Vettel gain an unfair advantage there? Yes, in my opinion at least, because of the layout and nature of the corner; Vettel was able to cover his mistake by blocking Hamilton (not on purpose though), and it was unfortunate that the race had to be killed with the 5 second penalty that was issued to Vettel. Harsh, but I can get behind it.

You might be wondering "well why is this relevant"? Because we're talking penalty system as well as contact. GT Sport has an algorithm that can't really get much better, as it's an automated system with boxes to tick to give a penalty instead of a system run by humans who can guide themselves by the three bullet points I've established. And we all know that the penalty system is crap and undecipherable at times; largely penalizing small contact that has no effect on the race or is unfair to one of the drivers (like bump drafting now being penalized for instance, or how contact through a corner is penalized inconsistently throughout sessions), or how it's easily gamed (for example, the popular "tap the car in front and drive off track to give them a penalty because I can't be arsed to overtake on track"). And it's pretty much unfixable since day 1, because the nature, it'z roots of how it operates, are plainly and simply broken and are inapplicable to actual racing situations in a consistent manner.

Now you're probably expecting me to say my opinion on how to fix or implement another system that can work like the current penalty system; automated. And I'm going to say "that is a purely mad idea". You can't make a system that operates like the one we have, with the inconsistent penalties being dished out, but you also cannot have a system that only operates with the letter of the law. You need all three of them to make a system work.

And that can only be done by a human. Not a machine, sadly, at least not in these days.

My two cents. Hopefully a civilized conversation can happen as we all see the common problem of the penalty system. Cheers :cheers:.
 
Best comment ever!


Thing is, when you analyse a racing incident there isn't a crystal-clear, "either contact is allowed or contact is not allowed" kind of ideal while going into it. Sure, you can say that racing is a non-contact sport and while that is true, you cannot go into a race and expect it to be fully contact-free, as others have stated; we aren't gaming AIs programmed to drive on racing lines (and even then, AIs can crash).

When a racing incident does happen, it's up to the stewards in the real racing world to determine the course of action, but they have three main things to follow:

*The letter of the law,
*The spirit of the law,
*The spirit of competition.

Basically, while you have to respect the law and it's main intent; that being the mantra that racing is a non-contact sport, you have to take that letter and with it, and your own view of the law (the spirit of the law), call the situation appropiately, while keeping in mind the spirit of competition.

Let's say two Gr.3 cars have been in a battle around the Nürburgring GP, and it's been a great race for a ton of laps; spectators on their feet, commentators on TV super excited and shouting at every move the drivers give, and then contact happens. The car behind gave up and divebombed the leading car into turn 1, and ran away with the leadership for the race.

Letter of the law: Racing is a non-contact sport: contact happened. •

Spirit of the law: The view that most people would have is that a bit of contact is okay as long as it doesn't influence the race result, but must be avoided if possible. •

Spirit of competition: Car number 2 gained an unfair advantage over car number 1 by divebombing, barging through, and ruining the show that was making the spectators all fired up. •

In this case, almost everyone would issue a penalty to car number 2, probably a harsh one at that like a stop-and-go or a 10-second penalty. Thing is, not every incident is crystal clear in the real world and neither are they on GT Sport and by extent, all other racing simulators.

In those instances where contact happens or something funky happens (like Vettel going off track in the 2019 Canadian GP), more time is required for the stewards to come to a consensus. In the example I put, a great race was being given between Vettel and Hamilton, before Vettel went off track and had to cut the corner and rejoined pretty unsafely due to the lack of grip, causing Hamilton to have to back off, and both cars continuing in the same positions.

Did Vettel gain an unfair advantage there? Yes, in my opinion at least, because of the layout and nature of the corner; Vettel was able to cover his mistake by blocking Hamilton (not on purpose though), and it was unfortunate that the race had to be killed with the 5 second penalty that was issued to Vettel. Harsh, but I can get behind it.

You might be wondering "well why is this relevant"? Because we're talking penalty system as well as contact. GT Sport has an algorithm that can't really get much better, as it's an automated system with boxes to tick to give a penalty instead of a system run by humans who can guide themselves by the three bullet points I've established. And we all know that the penalty system is crap and undecipherable at times; largely penalizing small contact that has no effect on the race or is unfair to one of the drivers (like bump drafting now being penalized for instance, or how contact through a corner is penalized inconsistently throughout sessions), or how it's easily gamed (for example, the popular "tap the car in front and drive off track to give them a penalty because I can't be arsed to overtake on track"). And it's pretty much unfixable since day 1, because the nature, it'z roots of how it operates, are plainly and simply broken and are inapplicable to actual racing situations in a consistent manner.

Now you're probably expecting me to say my opinion on how to fix or implement another system that can work like the current penalty system; automated. And I'm going to say "that is a purely mad idea". You can't make a system that operates like the one we have, with the inconsistent penalties being dished out, but you also cannot have a system that only operates with the letter of the law. You need all three of them to make a system work.

And that can only be done by a human. Not a machine, sadly, at least not in these days.

My two cents. Hopefully a civilized conversation can happen as we all see the common problem of the penalty system. Cheers :cheers:.
 
6
Netherlands
Netherlands
I totaly agree with you, it will be very difficult to make the penalty system flawless, even impossible. Penalties given to drivers who bump other drivers on purpose is ok with me. If you make a judgement error and therefore hit somebody else, ok with me. I have also received some penalties because i made an error, you won't hear me complain about that. But it's so annoying. Hope that they will fix IT (again).

Regards
Mart
 
21
United States
United States
xyz
Most noticeable UPDATE change to me: Very minor, incidental rear end taps (for example, when car in front of you brakes early) are a penalty no matter how light, and regardless of the absence of any effect on driver you tapped. I got 2 second penalty tonight when I honestly thought I had avoided any contact at all. Very discouraged by this update so far.
 

oink83

WRS Race Steward
Premium
3,493
United Kingdom
Bristol, UK
oink83
I had to watch spinning cars starting from April...:lol:

The worst thing is you have to actually click X after each one so you can't even just leave it and do something else to get through them all.

The other thing I had hoped it might sort is I still have that (perhaps somewhat rarer) glitch that means you can't see ghosts in time trial. Just sort of, decided it didn't want to work anymore a month or so back. Has anyone else who had that glitch tested it since patch?
 
639
United States
Bedford, Indiana
tmsheehan
You don't need to worry, he is the furthest thing from a dirty racer.

He doesn't punt me or push me wide - he just disappears and then laps me.

That is what he does to me too. He is always in the front, I am strongly holding up the rear.
 
1
Netherlands
Netherlands
I can confirm that the new penalty system is still not working. I drove in the Daily Race - Lago Maggiore East - Ferrari 458 Italia (N600). In lap 1, we went 3 cars wide in turn 3. Inside car taps middle car, middle car taps me, I run into the outside barrier AND get a 2,5 s penalty.

Is the new penalty system fixed? I don't think so!
 

RACECAR

Owner/Promoter/Organizer/Driver/ETC
Premium
33,009
United States
Dallas,Texas
GTP_RACECAR
Most noticeable UPDATE change to me: Very minor, incidental rear end taps (for example, when car in front of you brakes early) are a penalty no matter how light, and regardless of the absence of any effect on driver you tapped. I got 2 second penalty tonight when I honestly thought I had avoided any contact at all. Very discouraged by this update so far.

Same happened to me twice tonight. Someone in front got out of shape, I got on the brakes and made the lightest contact (Not even enough to get them out of shape), got a 2 second penalty.

Also, hope your internet is decent because apparently lagging into someone (Even if you are in front) gets you a 4 second penalty. Basically, it's back to being the over aggressive system it was back in 2019.
 
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5
Brazil
Brazil
Oh PD please... Last nigth on Race A I back to C driver rating losing 17k points ...its a joke? One driver hits me I crash the wall and buuum 3 Second penalty. No more gt sport for me.
 
4
United Kingdom
Leeds
Posmo
Avoiding dailies, yet again penalty system is harsh & wrong people penalised.
2 cars side by side, inside car takes tight line (2 wheels over apex), outside car turns in to try take apex as if other car isn't there, contact but no-one goes off, the car on the inside who took tightest line he could to leave room gets a 4 second penalty.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it, the whole penalty system is a joke.
 
2,865
United States
Theresa, Wisconsin
I am well aware that people still play GTS ( I am one of those people after all) and I too would like some things fixed. However, To troll would imply that they intentionally leave stuff broken just to upset you when what it actually is PD being as usual all over the place and inconsistent with their priorities (Something that has been their biggest flaw for the longest time even before GTS) so no, "troll" is not at all an inaccurate word. Just a word chosen by people who didn't get what they wanted when they wanted it despite never being promised such things.

I think troll is accurate for the broken penalty system. Polyphony's attempt at fixing the penalty system is nothing short of pathetic, what's worse is that we had something much better in the early days when it was shared blame. There is something wrong when another driver can give you SR down or penalties when it is completely beyond your control.
 
4,262
Indonesia
Paint booth
FMecha_EXE
N/A
This tyre branding only applies in the FIA Championships. This will mean people will have to tweak Liveries to have them make sense and not have Pirelli decals with Michilen tyres for example.
Also, many of default liveries of these cars (even PD-designed ones) are designed with other tire brands in mind (Vantage GT3 runs Pirelli, NSX Gr.3 runs Bridgestone, etc).
 
2,545
United Kingdom
Derby, UK
GTP_Abarber95
Also, many of default liveries of these cars (even PD-designed ones) are designed with other tire brands in mind (Vantage GT3 runs Pirelli, NSX Gr.3 runs Bridgestone, etc).

Yeah, this makes the default liveries even less appealing personally, not that I ever use them.
 
411
Canada
Canada
So the penalty system is back to being the dumpster fire of 2019?

Good thing I haven't put the disk in my console for almost a month now, definitely not encouraged to do so.
I spitefully took my GT Sport disc out when I got ACC, and figured I wouldn't put it back in until there was something appealing to do in GTS.

**Checks next weeks daily races**

Looks like it's staying out another week :lol:.
 

RACECAR

Owner/Promoter/Organizer/Driver/ETC
Premium
33,009
United States
Dallas,Texas
GTP_RACECAR
I think troll is accurate for the broken penalty system. Polyphony's attempt at fixing the penalty system is nothing short of pathetic, what's worse is that we had something much better in the early days when it was shared blame. There is something wrong when another driver can give you SR down or penalties when it is completely beyond your control.

"Trash" is what I call the penalty system (Since the 4 letter word I want to use is not AUP safe). Combine that with equally trash servers at times and it all amounts to something that needs to be tossed into the dumpster.

Usually stay away from rant videos, but last night's frustrating attempt at trying to get another achievement is beginning to seriously make me consider one.
 
3,047
Canada
Canada
Kaizen-Teian
And that can only be done by a human. Not a machine, sadly, at least not in these days.

.

Great post.

But I think I disagree with the machine part. I believe machine could be better than human in most ways. And the issue with GT Sport is the association with the FIA which limits what can be done in the game.

I feel GT Sport is emulating FIA rules. I also feel a machine based penalty system would be more logical if the FIA weren't involved/considered the default.

I like the partnership between GT and FIA. But I believe it's the FIA that could learn from the game and not the other way around when it comes to penalties in motor sports.

When people complain about the GT Sport penalty system they need to consider the real life equivalent. It's not like F1 races have a better system is it? So when people complain about the GT Sport penalty system I think it's because they know it could be better than the real thing.