I posted in another thread, but I'll post it here too.
I'd be for more tuners in an FIA manu season if they made it simpler.
I.E. - you get 1 tune per car, per season. You could make an all around tune to use for every round in that season (and an all aroundtune probably wouldn't be that far off of the standard bop), or if you had a really good tune for a specific round, you could run standard bop during the season, and use that tune for a specific round (and any other round you saw fit).
I don't think coming up with an all around tune would be super difficult since you'd have to make compromises for it to work on all tracks. Heck, it could be a simple as changing Diff settings to cure lift-off oversteer (like I do on the Gr.3 458). Or just a quick search for a tune on here or the internets
Tune in Manufacturers series, yes, fully, for all tracks... Yes... Why not? How can anyone expect a BOP Mazda Attenza Gr 3 to be suitable for both Yamagiwa and Monza?
However for those who prefer a more "game" orientated experience BOP.... For me, it should be this progression...
Daily A: Provided car (N class), BOP, no tuning, one tyre, no tyre wear or fuel usage, short race distance (6-8 min), minimal penalties i.e. Anyone can play (game) - but let us use our livery, if we have one
Daily B: Garage car (Gr 3 or 4), BOP, no tuning, one tyre, no tyre wear or fuel usage, medium race distance (12-14 min), medium penalties (in race), for more serious racers
Daily C: Garage car (Gr 3, 2, 1 or X), BOP, no tuning, several tyre choices, tyre wear & fuel usage to ensure pit stop and/or race strategy, 20 min race distance, strong penalties (in race), i.e. serious racers
Nations Cup: Garage car, BOP, no tuning, several tyre choices, tyre wear & fuel usage to ensure pit stop and/or race strategy, 30 min race distance, damage ON i.e. Pro racers
Manufacturers Cup: Garage car, BOP, Tuning allowed, several tyre choices, tyre wear & fuel usage to ensure pit stop and/or race strategy, 30 min race distance, damage ON i.e. Pro racers
Time trials: as they are
New Race: Tuners Run - same as Daily B but with full tuning and power ups allowed
Is it a good time to point out that this 'tuning debate' is yet another reason for Seasonal Events to return oneday? - For all the fun stuff that Sport players for some reason want no part of?
Is it a good time to point out that this 'tuning debate' is yet another reason for Seasonal Events to return oneday? - For all the fun stuff that Sport players for some reason want no part of?
Dailys should be daily
Weeklys should be weekly &
Seasonal should be seasonal
If anyone can explain why a "Daily race" lasts for one week, please stand up
A race available for only one day provides a fun way for everyone to "have a go"... No need to grind for that 0.050 second qualifying improvement. Jump in and do the best you can "because we might not see tomorrow"
Dailys should be daily
Weeklys should be weekly &
Seasonal should be seasonal
If anyone can explain why a "Daily race" lasts for one week, please stand up
A race available for only one day provides a fun way for everyone to "have a go"... No need to grind for that 0.050 second qualifying improvement. Jump in and do the best you can "because we might not see tomorrow"
Daily Races used to be daily when the game first launched and during the Betas. There's significantly more maintenance needed to change and set them up every 24 hours though.
In my opinion, it was too chaotic back then to learn and hone in my racecraft and skills, so changing to weekly was a much better decision, especially if you enjoy a combo but won't be able to race that day.
Is it a good time to point out that this 'tuning debate' is yet another reason for Seasonal Events to return oneday? - For all the fun stuff that Sport players for some reason want no part of?
I think some people are are freaking out for nonreason.PD could easily mix Open Tuning and Fixed Settings in the Daily Races.
Race C could become the Open Tuning Slot
Race B becomes longer but with fixed settings
And Race A is the One Make/Sprint Race slot.
I want to race, not look at google and spend half an hour copy pasting settings into menus because you know everyone else on the grid will have done the same. Even if you like tuning there will be a meta setup and you’ll have to use that anyway.
If gt7 dailies have tuning enabled I won’t buy it.
I can't believe there are as many people complaining about open tuning as there is on reddit. The game literally describes in detail what each setting does to effect the car, in either direction of it's change. If you haven't taken any time in the last 4 years to experiment and learn tuning, it's your own fault.
You don't like taking a few minutes of time if it means improving the handling of your car?
Also, let's not pretend GT's tuning is anywhere near as complex as iRacing's. GT's tuning menu is elementary school work compared to it, and you can learn how it works in an half hour...
Oh, you don't like tuning? Fine, go play an arcade game if you just wanna sit down and race. I hear the new Forza is fun.
Tuning is a part of professional racing. Knowing what makes your car handle the corners better is part of being a good driver. Accept it and shut up or take your whining somewhere else.
Most stock tunes in GT are rubbish anyway. With a tuned field, you'll see a lot more diversity in the chosen cars, particularly in the GT classes.
The problem with GT tuning is, it's mostly iterative trial and error. If you really want a meta tune, you need to spend hours testing every permutation of extreme settings. It's nothing like real life tuning where you're guided by physics principles. We don't even have data like basic tyre temps to guide camber tuning, suspension movement telemetry, or even g-force meter (which was in previous games, but removed for some reason). So it's not realistic, it's time consuming, and it doesn't really teach you any transferable skills to real life racing either.
Example of ride height being backwards (high front, low rear gives less understeer).
Example of camber being backwards (normally front camber is higher than rear).
In real life the driver drives, and the engineer/mechanic tunes. Of course the driver also has to give input and understands what a basic setting change does, but it's not their main job. In GT you're forced to do everything (in addition to planning race strategy). Also in real life you're often track time limited. In F1 you only have 3x1h sessions to nail the setup & strategy for a 2h race. In GT, there is literally no time limit. The track is always under the same condition, no red flag interruptions, no traffic. If you're a couch potato or retiree there is literally nothing stopping you from spending a whole week tuning for a 20 minutes race. Somebody who only has half an hour to tune and practice just can't compete.
And if you think that tuning gives you an advantage, that's not the case either. If you give me a perfect tune and I race against Igor Fraga in a default setup, he would still beat me. Tuning might give you an advantage against people of similar skill level (provided they don't tune themselves), but it won't magically make you a world beater if you aren't already near alien level. So again, it just increases the time commitment needed to do FIA from everyone, without actually making the racing any more engaging or changing the end result significantly.
So basically, tuning in GT is time consuming, not logical/realistic, and doesn't improve the gameplay. I'm fine with 1-2 tuning races in a 10 race season for variety, but if every race is tuning, that would be a huge turnoff for majority of the playerbase. We know only 10% of people play Sport Mode. From that maybe 10% race in FIA. Assume that 10% are interested in tuning races. That's only 0.1% of the playerbase. There are other more hardcore sims if you prefer racing with tuning. The appeal of GT's online races is the pick up and play. If you remove this, you're removing the single USP it has over the competition.
Alternatively, we could have a separate tuning championship as some suggested, but I can bet you the turnout would be so low, PD would just scrap it after a few seasons because it's not worth organizing. The fortnightly Time Trials have proven time and again that the non tuned leaderboard always has more players than tuned.
Final note, I'm not against PD improving the base setup of the cars, but that is PD's job, not the players. And I agree that for Manufacturers we should have a few preset tunes to suit the different tracks (e.g. handling, balanced, top speed), so that some cars don't end up being totally meta/useless in some races. Again, this is PD's job. Heck they could even employ a few of the top tuners here to help out (like they have employed some of the Japanese aliens to help with BOP testing).
Just my 2 cents Now I'm off to scour Prairano's garage for tunes for the season (except for kart, because nothing you do will ever make the karts realistic in this game ).
I want to race, not look at google and spend half an hour copy pasting settings into menus because you know everyone else on the grid will have done the same.
The problem with GT tuning is, it's mostly iterative trial and error. If you really want a meta tune, you need to spend hours testing every permutation of extreme settings. It's nothing like real life tuning where you're guided by physics principles (heck, we don't even have data like basic tyre pressure to guide camber tuning or telemetry). So it's not realistic, it's time consuming, and it doesn't really teach you any transferable skills to real life racing either.
Being capable in the livery editor is also very time consuming and doesn't really translate to anything in real life either. (I'm pretty decent in the livery editor and love to take the time to get all the details correct, but I'm also terrible at drawing lol) Doesn't mean people don't enjoy its inclusion, or the process of creating something. To me, I view tuning in a very similar way... even without the tuning shop in previous games and Sport having possibly the most dull tuning in the series. Just the ability to make my car handle better to another players car that might look the same on track gives me satisfaction and can be very fun. At the end of the day, that's why I play video games. Though, I recognize that might not have a place in ranked races in Sport mode.
Alternatively, we could have a separate tuning championship as some suggested, but I can bet you the turnout would be so low, PD would just scrap it after a few seasons because it's not worth organizing. The fortnightly Time Trials have proven time and again that the non tuned leaderboard always has more players than tuned.
To be honest, if such a championship existed, it would be a mistake to have it be ranked in anyway. I say it would probably best fit in a more casual friendly 'Seasonal Event' or 'Quick Race' type environment like from GT5 and GT6 if possible.
To add on to that, I strongly disagree with the statement that races which gave players the freedom to choose their own car, and change what they wanted (as long as it met the PP limit) would be unpopular. The mainstream/casual crowd always tend to choose what gives them the most freedom, which is a strong reason why F:Horizon is so popular nowadays... and of course, the open lobby feature. I really don't think the player numbers for a open setup time trial is a good metric. I also think the only people who take time trials seriously are really hardcore players anyway. Lapping a track constantly till you nail the absolute perfect lap is already extremely time consuming, and maybe even more time consuming than tuning is. (especially if its as big of a deal as the Olympic Time Trials were.)
If you're a couch potato or retiree there is literally nothing stopping you from spending a whole week tuning for a 20 minutes race. Somebody who only has half an hour to tune and practice just can't compete.
And if you think that tuning gives you an advantage, that's not the case either. If you give me a perfect tune and I race against Igor Fraga in a default setup, he would still beat me. Tuning might give you an advantage against people of similar skill level (provided they don't tune themselves), but it won't magically make you a world beater if you aren't already near alien level.
Just kinda spitballing here, but I think the best way to do this for Sport mode races would to eliminate every single tuning setting except Anti-Roll bar adjustment so players can adjust oversteer/understeer, and fix any handling issues they think the car has. Either that, or bring back the ballast position adjustment from previous games.
This way, players can still adjust the handling of the car to their preference (which is still pretty important in races with different selections of cars and handling styles), and this prevents players from spending 30 hours making a perfect setup trying to have a unfair advantage due to their time allotment. It might even slightly alleviate the 'meta cars' issue, if players can drive the cars they want, and quickly tweak them to handle to their preference before a race.
I still think PD has been giving us more tuning FIA races lately because they’re gathering data to see what the hardcore guys are tuning along with the more casual sport mode players. My hunch is to simplify the tuning menus for sport mode. Like @DefNotJake eluded to, it could be something as simple as adjusting the ballast which would help a lot of cars out
But I think PD could do what @LeGeNd-1 was suggesting (and what ACC already does), and offer a couple preset tunes for each car
I think there’s pros and cons to enabling tuning in the online championships, and IMO it’d be best served by adding a 3rd “tuners cup” to go alongside the Nations and Manufacturers.
Tuning can sometimes break the competitive edge by making the winner the one with the fastest setup rather than the outright fastest driver. The esports series so far has seemed to focus on the driver(s) and finding who is fastest - which would subscribe to the ethos putting everyone in equal/balanced machinery. Not everyone has the knowledge or time to develop the ideal setup, and I think that could break the spirit of the Nations and Manufactures Cups.
By using a “Tuners Cup” it could keep the sanctity of raw driving in Nations and brands in Manufactures, and then highlight the setup experts (and just the functionality itself) with this theoretical 3rd cup. I think it could also lend itself well for part supplier sponsorships.
I still think PD has been giving us more tuning FIA races lately because they’re gathering data to see what the hardcore guys are tuning along with the more casual sport mode players. My hunch is to simplify the tuning menus for sport mode. Like @DefNotJake eluded to, it could be something as simple as adjusting the ballast which would help a lot of cars out
But I think PD could do what @LeGeNd-1 was suggesting (and what ACC already does), and offer a couple preset tunes for each car
The problem with GT tuning is, it's mostly iterative trial and error. If you really want a meta tune, you need to spend hours testing every permutation of extreme settings. It's nothing like real life tuning where you're guided by physics principles (heck, we don't even have data like basic tyre pressure to guide camber tuning or telemetry). So it's not realistic, it's time consuming, and it doesn't really teach you any transferable skills to real life racing either.
Example of ride height being backwards (high front, low rear gives less understeer).
Example of camber being backwards (normally front camber is higher than rear).
In real life the driver drives, and the engineer/mechanic tunes. Of course the driver also has to give input and understands what a basic setting change does, but it's not their main job. In GT you're forced to do everything (in addition to planning race strategy). Also in real life you're often track time limited. In F1 you only have 3x1h sessions to nail the setup & strategy for a 2h race. In GT, there is literally no time limit. The track is always under the same condition, no red flag interruptions, no traffic. If you're a couch potato or retiree there is literally nothing stopping you from spending a whole week tuning for a 20 minutes race. Somebody who only has half an hour to tune and practice just can't compete.
And if you think that tuning gives you an advantage, that's not the case either. If you give me a perfect tune and I race against Igor Fraga in a default setup, he would still beat me. Tuning might give you an advantage against people of similar skill level (provided they don't tune themselves), but it won't magically make you a world beater if you aren't already near alien level. So again, it just increases the time commitment needed to do FIA from everyone, without actually making the racing any more engaging or changing the end result significantly.
So basically, tuning in GT is time consuming, not logical/realistic, and doesn't improve the gameplay. I'm fine with 1-2 tuning races in a 10 race season for variety, but if every race is tuning, that would be a huge turnoff for majority of the playerbase. We know only 10% of people play Sport Mode. From that maybe 10% race in FIA. Assume that 10% are interested in tuning races. That's only 0.1% of the playerbase. There are other more hardcore sims if you prefer racing with tuning. The appeal of GT's online races is the pick up and play. If you remove this, you're removing the single USP it has over the competition.
Alternatively, we could have a separate tuning championship as some suggested, but I can bet you the turnout would be so low, PD would just scrap it after a few seasons because it's not worth organizing. The fortnightly Time Trials have proven time and again that the non tuned leaderboard always has more players than tuned.
Final note, I'm not against PD improving the base setup of the cars, but that is PD's job, not the players. And I agree that for Manufacturers we should have a few preset tunes to suit the different tracks (e.g. handling, balanced, top speed), so that some cars don't end up being totally meta/useless in some races. Again, this is PD's job. Heck they could even employ a few of the top tuners here to help out (like they have employed some of the Japanese aliens to help with BOP testing).
Just my 2 cents Now I'm off to scour Prairano's garage for tunes for the season (except for kart, because nothing you do will ever make the karts realistic in this game ).
Tuning is a very time consuming thing that destabilises the equal playing field. The ones that often are very welcoming to see tuning as another factor are the ones that have tons of time and/or the ones that are very good at it and of course think it’s nice with a little bit of advantage against the plebeians to whom tuning is an unknown or difficult and time consuming concept.
It also creates the absolutely ridiculous market where some people even manage to sell tunes. Come on, man. What made online in Gran Turismo Sport such a fantastic thing is the easy pick-up and play and it’s all up to you and your driving skill.
It’s been mentioned many times, PD suspensions are wrong. Players just need to adjust a little camber for twisty circuits, anti-roll bar for wet circuits and springs & dampers for bumpy circuits/circuits with high curbs.
Tuning a car as a reverse dragster, is silly. Tuning a GT3 car with WRC gearing, is silly. PD need to rectify the programming. An easy slider that goes from understeer to oversteer is fine. However, in depth tuning can still exist. A hardcore tuner can still share the track with a novice. PD need to implement this better.
No matter if you like or dislike tuning (I like it but it can be unrealistic at times in GT Sport) there is no denying that it is a crucial part of real world racing. I know NASCAR best so I will give examples from it.
Mark Martin told stories before of how at Roush the team was more hands on and that helped Martin be able to position his own car bodies how he wanted, though what he did for his car at times would be completely different from what his teammates ran. That worked well for many years but eventually his performance started to fall off. A few years later after racing part time for awhile and most considering him washed up, he went to Hendrick which was a much less hands on experience but Martin still described it as like working for NASA with how much advanced technology and experienced people to help tune the car for him. He was just as competitive with Hendruck as with Roush.
This relates to a Gran Turismo example of I've been tuning for myself for over ten years and made a successful team from it. I've competed in many leagues and series with tuning permitted and made my own tune with great success. Though I have also given my tune to someone else on my team and it didn't work for them. I've used tunes for time trial events made by the fastest players there are that were acclaimed by many that made me much faster than my own tune, but also sometimes slower.
The point is sometimes making your own tune is best, sometimes using the meta tune is best, and it is different for each player, but no matter what tuning in general is important to get the most out of the vehicles possible.
Is it a good time to point out that this 'tuning debate' is yet another reason for Seasonal Events to return oneday? - For all the fun stuff that Sport players for some reason want no part of?
I've always said one of the main thing that makes Gran Turismo great are it's pick up and play either offline or in multiplayer. Tuning, in my personal opinion stops this. If they did go down this route I do hope they enable you to download top 10 setups a bit like Project Cars. I also think if tuning becomes enabled the BoP in GT7 would be all over the place due to some of the extreme setups out there, hopefully not though! The one thing I'd love to see is an additional daily/weekly race for the tuners to really go crazy at .
I’m not thrilled with cars that can be detuned two tiers lower than their stock power. However, I do hope the PP in GT7 will somewhat rectify this. I’d rather cars can only be tuned up. Now, in the real world, sure, there are valet modes that actually run cars at lower boost and or limit revs, etc. Thing is, there are plenty of cars in each of the Groups that don’t need to have other cars selectable. That’s another part of the problem.
So many fun choices out of the 40 N300. From the 29k Focus, up to the 12.5 mil 250 Berlinetta. Cars like the Mitsubishi GTO and A110 come alive when tightened up a bit.
Edit: Gave the X-Bow a try(2:18.645), Fugu Z(2:22.042), E46(2:17.619) this thing is something special. 235km/h before braking at the docks and 245km/h before braking at the pit lane u-turn.
Left the rear downforce of the FD at “0” for my first run(2:19.243) and raised the Level to 40 on my second run(2:18.912). About what I’m seeing with the rest of the N300 JDMs.
The problem with GT tuning is, it's mostly iterative trial and error. If you really want a meta tune, you need to spend hours testing every permutation of extreme settings. It's nothing like real life tuning where you're guided by physics principles. We don't even have data like basic tyre temps to guide camber tuning, suspension movement telemetry, or even g-force meter (which was in previous games, but removed for some reason). So it's not realistic, it's time consuming, and it doesn't really teach you any transferable skills to real life racing either.
Example of ride height being backwards (high front, low rear gives less understeer).
Example of camber being backwards (normally front camber is higher than rear).
In real life the driver drives, and the engineer/mechanic tunes. Of course the driver also has to give input and understands what a basic setting change does, but it's not their main job. In GT you're forced to do everything (in addition to planning race strategy). Also in real life you're often track time limited. In F1 you only have 3x1h sessions to nail the setup & strategy for a 2h race. In GT, there is literally no time limit. The track is always under the same condition, no red flag interruptions, no traffic. If you're a couch potato or retiree there is literally nothing stopping you from spending a whole week tuning for a 20 minutes race. Somebody who only has half an hour to tune and practice just can't compete.
And if you think that tuning gives you an advantage, that's not the case either. If you give me a perfect tune and I race against Igor Fraga in a default setup, he would still beat me. Tuning might give you an advantage against people of similar skill level (provided they don't tune themselves), but it won't magically make you a world beater if you aren't already near alien level. So again, it just increases the time commitment needed to do FIA from everyone, without actually making the racing any more engaging or changing the end result significantly.
So basically, tuning in GT is time consuming, not logical/realistic, and doesn't improve the gameplay. I'm fine with 1-2 tuning races in a 10 race season for variety, but if every race is tuning, that would be a huge turnoff for majority of the playerbase. We know only 10% of people play Sport Mode. From that maybe 10% race in FIA. Assume that 10% are interested in tuning races. That's only 0.1% of the playerbase. There are other more hardcore sims if you prefer racing with tuning. The appeal of GT's online races is the pick up and play. If you remove this, you're removing the single USP it has over the competition.
Alternatively, we could have a separate tuning championship as some suggested, but I can bet you the turnout would be so low, PD would just scrap it after a few seasons because it's not worth organizing. The fortnightly Time Trials have proven time and again that the non tuned leaderboard always has more players than tuned.
Final note, I'm not against PD improving the base setup of the cars, but that is PD's job, not the players. And I agree that for Manufacturers we should have a few preset tunes to suit the different tracks (e.g. handling, balanced, top speed), so that some cars don't end up being totally meta/useless in some races. Again, this is PD's job. Heck they could even employ a few of the top tuners here to help out (like they have employed some of the Japanese aliens to help with BOP testing).
Just my 2 cents Now I'm off to scour Prairano's garage for tunes for the season (except for kart, because nothing you do will ever make the karts realistic in this game ).
It's how you make good races in Open Lobbys. It was fantastic in GT5 and GT6 when all your buddies or even randoms can bring out their tuned cars (meeting the PP number), and you would get really close races with really diverse grid of cars and strengths. Very fun.
Now I'm off to scour Prairano's garage for tunes for the season (except for kart, because nothing you do will ever make the karts realistic in this game 
).
