Grid size - what do you can the PS5 handle?

[CodeRedR51]

One of the biggest changes I am hoping is made for GT7 is the grid size. Right now we are limited to 16 in private lobbies, and 20 in FIA lobbies. Given the extra power of the PS5, I am hoping that this will grow somewhat and allow for large multi-class grids for private leagues.

 

[05XR8]

Offline, by console, PD jumped from 6 to 16 with PS3. 16 to 20 with PS4.
We have 30 in the RSR Mission Challenge. I'm thinking 30 with an even number of multi-class cars, like what we had before the '08 Super GT500 were added.

I'd hope for more than 30 offline, but not sure how many the servers can handle when it comes to online.

 

[GTxForza]

My guess would be from 20 to 24.

 

[Gtsport28]

on a world tour 32 or 34 cars were seen on the same starting grid

 

[MroczMR]

I think 32 should be a standard. With this 30 cars challenge i think it is possible in GT7.

Or Raytracing used too much power and they will downgrade number to 16 or something.

 

[05XR8]

I'd like to know if player created liveries effects online car count.

 

[Samus]

Like most things this is always a matter of choosing how they use resources and what sacrifices they choose to make.

The PS3 even could have handled 30-40 car grids if they reduced poly count on the cars quite a bit, lowered the overall resolution or whatever else.

Obviously with each hardware jump you get a bigger pool of resources to use, but it's still a choice. If PD want 20 super high detailed cars and want to do other things that use up RAM and other resources, then that's what we'll get.

 

[RacingFan1]

I think, regardless of what PS5 can hanle, It would be a bit chaos in many tracks if there are around 30 cars racing together. Also network and desynch problems are another issue which is not really related to pure hardware power. I think 24-26 should be the maximum we could see

 

[MroczMR]

I think, regardless of what PS5 can hanle, It would be a bit chaos in many tracks if there are around 30 cars racing together. Also network and desynch problems are another issue which is not really related to pure hardware power. I think 24-26 should be the maximum we could see

Could be normally 20-24 cars but with some special events with more cars like 32. For example Le Mans event in GT mode with maximum that console can handle ore something.

 

[RacingFan1]

Could be normally 20-24 cars but with some special events with more cars like 32. For example Le Mans event in GT mode with maximum that console can handle ore something.

But with online lobbies how you manage this?

 

[Baka_Marimo]

As evidenced by this video from just after launch in October 2017 GT Sport already supports 24 cars online but PD seems to have retracted from this since. I don't know the reason for this but it might have to do with connection quality.

 

[MroczMR]

But with online lobbies how you manage this?

I think online lobbies will stay the same as GTS maybe max 24 players.

I was talking about AI cars and single player mode.

 

[AlanH49]

24-26 would be the realistic maximum.

Don’t see the need for going upto 30+. Unless it’s track specific like Le Mans or the Nordschleife.

 

[nickf1gr]

30 players with multiclass option!!!! Please PD

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'm hoping they find a way to put a massive grid on the Nordschleife, even if cars that aren't in the same class as you don't exist once they're out of visual range (I think the old Sierra rally did this?). To me the grid size is as important as things like night and day cycles for the Nordschleife... watching the NLS at the weekend and negotiating traffic is such an important factor.

 

[Dave A]

I'm hoping they find a way to put a massive grid on the Nordschleife, even if cars that aren't in the same class as you don't exist once they're out of visual range (I think the old Sierra rally did this?). To me the grid size is as important as things like night and day cycles for the Nordschleife... watching the NLS at the weekend and negotiating traffic is such an important factor.

The difference between the Sierra Rally and having a huge grid in an actual race is staging the positions of the cars and keeping them from gathering in too large a number at all times. In the Sierra Rally the cars started sufficiently spaced out so only thier lcoations needed tracking until you got close enough and due to the nature of the event there would never be a huge number of cars on screen at once. As you only complete 1 lap there was no chance of the cars congesting in a later lap.

It would be great if they accommodate larger grids in the game egine though, tracks like the Nordschleife can feel empty at times even with large grids. And a large grid can make a race at a large oval like Daytona more interesting. Multi-class racing please .

 

[GBalao888]

I'm gonna guess up to a maximum of 24 cars on a single race.

 

[Veinz]

I'm thinking it would be able to handle at least 30. Putting that many players in a public race does not seem like a good idea though, so my guess would be 20.

 

[GMHV8]

I personally think 24 - 30 would be great. I mean let's be honest, a full grid of 6 sucked back in the day. Jokes aside, for AI I'd be happy for 16 to 20 including myself, online I think 24 to 30 (as voted) would be ideal.

 

[RACECAR]

It's interesting to note (At least going off GT Sport) that the majority of fictional tracks supports around 20-30 pit boxes with only Dragon Trail Seaside and SSRX able to hold 40 and 42 respectively while Blue Moon Bay is the only track to hold 50.

And then there is the amount that the Real Tracks have:

Tsukuba - 32
Brands Hatch - 33
Willow Springs (Big Willow) - 20
Willow Springs (Streets of Willow) - 12
Willow Springs (Horse Their Mile) - 12
Suzuka Circuit - 52
Autopolis - 46
Catalunya - 48
Laguna Seca - 24
Monza- 24
Goodwood - 25
Bathurst - 36
Red Bull Ring - 32
Spa - 42
Le Mans - 48
Interlagos - 23
Fuji - 45
Nurburgring - 32

That would give us about 9 Real World circuits that can hold 20 - 30 or so cars, 5 that can hold about 40 or more and Suzuka as the only circuit with 52 . Looking those numbers, that roughly gives us a total of 30 tracks that can hold around 20-30 with 6 that can hold about 40 and only 2 tracks capable of holding up to about 50 or more.

While I would like to see how many more tracks we get in GT7 (With only Daytona and Trial Mountain officially confirmed as returning) before I speculate about offline, online I only realistically expect at most a moderate increase to about 24-28 purely due to connection quality. Even then, That's assuming they actually have servers capable of holding more then at most the 20 we currently have for FIA events.

 

[Samus]

That only matters if they go back to simulating real pit stops though. If they stick with the cut-scenes, it won't matter.

 

[05XR8]

One more thing about the multi-class requests. In the Mission Challenge TT, using the Gr.4 SLS, once completed, watch the replay.

Players notice the AI cars are slow flashing their hazards. One or two cars are driving at speed(I think it's a Gr.4 4C). Flicking through the cars ahead and behind, there are a couple GT3 cars on the track!
You'll never see them while you're setting your time.

It's another feature PD haven't added in Custom Race, Single Race, GT League and Sport Mode. Yet, we see plenty of multi-class pics in teaser pics(like GR.4 cars on the track with N- class cars) before GT Sport debuted.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The difference between the Sierra Rally and having a huge grid in an actual race is staging the positions of the cars and keeping them from gathering in too large a number at all times. In the Sierra Rally the cars started sufficiently spaced out so only thier lcoations needed tracking until you got close enough and due to the nature of the event there would never be a huge number of cars on screen at once. As you only complete 1 lap there was no chance of the cars congesting in a later lap.

It would be great if they accommodate larger grids in the game egine though, tracks like the Nordschleife can feel empty at times even with large grids. And a large grid can make a race at a large oval like Daytona more interesting. Multi-class racing please .

What I mean is, if some of the other cars on track aren't in the same class as you (and therefore effectively not in the same race as you), then they can literally just spawn one up ahead when conditions suit, then despawn it once it's out of range behind you. Really, even if they only did it for the Nordschleife I think it would be worth it.

 

[Dave A]

What I mean is, if some of the other cars on track aren't in the same class as you (and therefore effectively not in the same race as you), then they can literally just spawn one up ahead when conditions suit, then despawn it once it's out of range behind you. Really, even if they only did it for the Nordschleife I think it would be worth it.

That's really hard to do and keep the race real, all of the cars will despawn in that the car models aren't loaded, when they're outside the draw distance, but the game still has to keep track of what is happenning. So the phsyics and position of those cars on the track is still going on. It's not just about the 3d model.

So you would still have a problem that too many cars would cluster together so when they are all drawn the GPU can't handle it. We don't know what that limit is, this is all just theoretical, we could get 30 car grids, who knows yet. If you started adding code that prevented the engine from loading cars into view when there were already x number of cars in view you would end up seeing cars appear then disspear as other cars come in and go out of view and you would see cars dissaprear in the replays at those same points as the limit on cars in view at any time would likey be the same in a replay as it would be mid race.

 

[MatskiMonk]

That's really hard to do and keep the race real, all of the cars will despawn in that the car models aren't loaded, when they're outside the draw distance, but the game still has to keep track of what is happenning. So the phsyics and position of those cars on the track is still going on. It's not just about the 3d model.

It wouldn't have to keep track of them though. Say I'm in Gr.3 car and I pass a few N500 cars and a Gr.4 car, I'm not racing against them. Therefore if I bin it two corners later, it doesn't actually matter if they've despawned and I don't see them come back past me, and I don't need to know where, when or how they finish, they don't even need a fully aggressive racing AI. They literally just need to be track furniture. Yeah, it's not 100% real, but it's more real than doing 10 laps of the Nordschleife and only seeing 1 other car. Perhaps in a GT500/GT300 race at Suzuka the inconsistency of the positions would be more noticeable, but again, I think it would feel like a net gain.

 

[Dave A]

It wouldn't have to keep track of them though. Say I'm in Gr.3 car and I pass a few N500 cars and a Gr.4 car, I'm not racing against them. Therefore if I bin it two corners later, it doesn't actually matter if they've despawned and I don't see them come back past me, and I don't need to know where, when or how they finish, they don't even need a fully aggressive racing AI. They literally just need to be track furniture. Yeah, it's not 100% real, but it's more real than doing 10 laps of the Nordschleife and only seeing 1 other car. Perhaps in a GT500/GT300 race at Suzuka the inconsistency of the positions would be more noticeable, but again, I think it would feel like a net gain.

Maybe they could introduce a game mode like that, like the Sierra Rally, but i wouldn't want that immersion breaking in say every Norschleife race. You couldn't track those cars in replays, you would see them dissapear in replays if you were tracking any car other than your own as well.

I get what you're saying, and I wouldn't object to that kind of AI fudging as part of it's own special mode or special events that work around the ptifalls of it like stopping you switching to other cars in the replays. And then you could have normal races that don't do that as well.

 

[RACECAR]

Players notice the AI cars are slow flashing their hazards. One or two cars are driving at speed(I think it's a Gr.4 4C). Flicking through the cars ahead and behind, there are a couple GT3 cars on the track!
You'll never see them while you're setting your time.

It's another feature PD haven't added in Custom Race, Single Race, GT League and Sport Mode. Yet, we see plenty of multi-class pics in teaser pics(like GR.4 cars on the track with N- class cars) before GT Sport debuted.

Actually, they did for GT League. I have a video from one of the endurance races (GR.3 at Monza I believe) where as I was approaching a car coming out of the final corner, they were actually flashing their blinkers before heading to the pits.

 

[05XR8]

Actually, they did for GT League. I have a video from one of the endurance races (GR.3 at Monza I believe) where as I was approaching a car coming out of the final corner, they were actually flashing their blinkers before heading to the pits.

Super GT500/Gr.2, is the only GT League race with multi-class. There's no Gr.3/Gr.4 multi-class, like what I mentioned above.

for sure about the signalling. There are a couple threads about AI flashing and signals being used.👍

 

[05XR8]

Yes please. 49 cars on track.

 

[NosOsH]

TPC gonna need 32+ car private lobbies!
Also spectating without being on the grid or taking spots away would be nice for both private lobbies and could you imagine spectating world tour and/or top 16 races with commentary?? Instead of watching on a stream...