GT or GT40

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If you can, highlight where Ford specifically said the "GT40" was not a nickname, since I can point out where Ford specifically said it was. At least then we'll be 50/50, since right now I'm way ahead.

I just said it was.
Yes, GT40 was originally a nickname during, again, the 11 prototypes' era. However.
 
Everything you have freakin' quoted in this thread has contradicted you!

The brochure you used is titled for a Ford GT40.

The only Ford GTs were chassis GT 101 to 112. These were all prototypes. In 1965, some were nicknamed Ford GT40s. Because in 1966 the name was so popular now, Ford decided to call it the GT40.

That is the only reason Ford changed the chassis codes.

Yes, it was INTENDED to be a Ford GT, but in the END, it was recognized as a GT40.

Do NOT ask me to prove anything. I have sat here and constantly given out chassis codes and obvious proof while you quote articles that contradict what you're using them for, and use the steering wheel and liveries as proof.

and your chassis numbers are coming from ? with back up that they were called gt40's not just going by the chassis numbers?

you have produced no proof at all yet for support what i say there has been recent and 60's press releases from ford,books on the subject and the fact that ford didnt own the gt40 name which if they did call the gt's in the 60's gt40's they would have which means that company couldnt register the name.

as said in advertiseing they would have called it the gt40 as people would know that name and associate with it,for example called the 350z z.
 
I'd like some proof before just believing that you know more about the car than Ford themselves, since they said it was "just a nickname"
 
Ok again from ford media:

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=12051

While the new concept and the original both share the mystique of the GT40 name, they share not a single dimension. The concept is more than eighteen inches longer and stands nearly four inches taller. Its new lines draw upon and refine the best features of GT40 history and express the car’s identity through modern proportion and surface development.

Also it is not that unusual that Ford didn't trademark GT40 back in the sixties how could they have known that is was going to become the icon it did? they didn't intend it to become a series production car.
 
Also it is not that unusual that Ford didn't trademark GT40 back in the sixties how could they have known that is was going to become the icon it did? they didn't intend it to become a series production car.

it won lemans in 66,67,68,69 and that company didnt register the name till 85 so you cant use the "they didnt know it was gonna become an icon" theory. i know ford can be abit slow but not that slow.
 
and your chassis numbers are coming from ? with back up that they were called gt40's not just going by the chassis numbers?
The chassis numbers are obvious proof Ford decided to call it the GT40.
There is NO other explination for the sudden change of GT101 to GT40P/xxxx.
you have produced no proof at all yet for support what i say there has been recent and 60's press releases from ford,
Those press releases came out in 1964! Of course they're going to call it a Ford GT. The nickname wasn't even around then, and neither was the production car.
books on the subject
Books don't mean crap. I posted books that said the exact opposite.
and the fact that ford didnt own the gt40 name which if they did call the gt's in the 60's gt40's they would have which means that company couldnt register the name.
Exactly! DUH! Because the name was so popular by 1966, Ford produced the car under the GT40 name.
as said in advertiseing they would have called it the gt40 as people would know that name and associate with it,for example called the 350z z.
Then pray tell why Ford put it on the brochure? Nothing in the 1960's had GT40 trademarked but Ford.

I'd like some proof before just believing that you know more about the car than Ford themselves, since they said it was "just a nickname"
Are you just ignoring Gash's posts?

The people you're quoting from are saying GT40 in other articles. Your source contradicts itself as much as Holden using wikipedia.
 
it won lemans in 66,67,68,69 and that company didnt register the name till 85 so you cant use the "they didnt know it was gonna become an icon" theory. i know ford can be abit slow but not that slow.

And pray tell how you know when they registered the name when the brochure said it in 1966? Obviously, Ford had no problem using it then without trademarking it.
 
The chassis numbers are obvious proof Ford decided to call it the GT40.
There is NO other explination for the sudden change of GT101 to GT40P/xxxx.

Those press releases came out in 1964! Of course they're going to call it a Ford GT. The nickname wasn't even around then, and neither was the production car.

Books don't mean crap. I posted books that said the exact opposite.

Exactly! DUH! Because the name was so popular by 1966, Ford produced the car under the GT40 name.

Then pray tell why Ford put it on the brochure? Nothing in the 1960's had GT40 trademarked but Ford.


Are you just ignoring Gash's posts?


The people you're quoting from are saying GT40 in other articles. Your source contradicts itself as much as Holden using wikipedia.

The timeline for the new Ford GT:

1963: Rebuffed in a bid to buy Ferrari, Henry Ford II decides that Ford Motor will build a car to race in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

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April 1964: Ford GT is unveiled.

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June 1964: Ford enters 3 cars in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, where the GT40 moniker emerges. All 3 fail to finish.

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Fall 1964: Ford hires Carroll Shelby to head the GT effort.

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June 1966: The Ford GT40 finishes 1-2-3 at Le Mans. It wins the race again the next 3 years.

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1969: Ford drops GT40 racing.

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1981: Safir Engineering Ltd. begins building replica vehicles.

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1985: Safir registers the trademark for the GT40 name.

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1999: Trademark is transferred to Safir GT40 Spares Ltd.

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January 2002: Ford unveils the GT40 concept car at the Detroit auto show.

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February 2002: Ford commits to the production car.

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October 2002: Ford says the production car will be named the Ford GT.

Nope, I like his posts.
 
ANOTHER from Ford Media:

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=20267

1966
First Place: Ford Mk II driven by Bruce McLaren and Chris Amon
Second Place: Ford Mk II driven by Ken Miles and Denis Hulme
Third Place: Ford Mk II driven by Ronnie Bucknum and Dick Hutcherson

1967
First Place: Ford Mk IV driven by Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt Jr.
Fourth Place: Ford Mk IV driven by Bruce McLaren and Mark Donohue

1968
First Place: Ford GT40 driven by Pedro Rodriguez and Lucien Bianchi

1969
First Place: Ford GT40 driven by Jacky Ickx and Jackie Oliver
Third Place: Ford GT40 driven by David Hobbs and Mike Hailwood
 
And pray tell how you know when they registered the name when the brochure said it in 1966? Obviously, Ford had no problem using it then without trademarking it.
for the simple reason they didnt trade mark it as it wasnt the name of the car :rolleyes:

and again like you said you have no proof that they changed the chassis numbers from gt to gt40 because of the name
 
for the simple reason they didnt trade mark it as it wasnt the name of the car :rolleyes:

and again like you said you have no proof that they changed the chassis numbers from gt to gt40 because of the name

Then why did they?
Tell me as I've asked you 3 times and you just jump over it.
 
Because it did. There is no other explination for suddenly changing the codes from GT to GT 40 P.

If there is, then say so.
back up what your saying cause you havent been! if you are so sure then you would have proof wouldnt you rather than just assuming
 
Full article quote, which shows that Ford backtracked in the press releases for the new Ford GT AFTER they couldn't secure the GT40 name:

KC Crain Automotive News / October 21
Automaker shifts gears on sports car's famous name after negotiations stall

By K.C. Crain
Automotive News / October 21, 2002

For months, Ford Motor Co. has been trumpeting the rebirth of a famous automotive name: the GT40, a short-lived but legendary sports car that dominated Le Mans in the 1960s.

And suddenly last week the new model, which will arrive in limited numbers in 2004, was simply the GT.

How come?

Thirty years ago, nobody at Ford bothered to register the GT40 trademark. And the trademark owner's initial demand, in the $40 million range, led the cost-conscious automaker to drop the "40" moniker and hang onto its money.

"We wanted the (new) car to be called the Ford GT40," says Bob Wood, part-owner of Safir GT40 Spares Ltd. of Cincinnati, which bought the GT40 name in 1999. The company sells replacement parts for the 160 GT40s built from 1964 to 1969.

"Ford was unwilling to negotiate and wouldn't make an offer," Wood said.

Ford spokesman Dan Bedore declined to discuss specifics of the negotiations, saying only that the two parties "couldn't come to mutually agreeable terms."

The name change to GT was announced Tuesday, Oct. 15.

Ford said it would build three copies of the sports car in late 2003 to commemorate the automaker's 1-2-3 finish at the 1966 24 Hours of LeMans as part of Ford's 100th anniversary celebration.

The automaker said it would build about 1,000 GTs annually starting in 2004, at a price of "substantially less" than $150,000.

A hairpin turn

In its press release, the automaker downplayed the name change, stating that the official name of the original race car was the Ford GT, and the GT40 label was only a popular nickname derived from the vehicle's 40-inch height.

That was a hairpin turn from the initial marketing efforts. At the Detroit auto show in January, the Ford stand was awash in GT40 mania. Journalists and Ford employees filled an arena to watch the unveiling of the concept car, and Ford distributed metal replicas of the car's knock-off wheel hub, emblazoned with a GT40 logo.

The concept car had its own stand at the show, where visitors were served "GT40 cocktails."

Forty-five days later, Ford officials said they would build the GT40.

And then the name game turned ugly.

Ford had negotiated limited rights to the GT40 name from Safir GT40 Spares for the concept car, and assumed that the rest of the deal would fall into place. As part of the marketing effort, it had filed a dozen applications with the United States Patent and Trademark Office to use the GT40 name on a wide variety of items, such as clothing, luggage, jewelry and even can openers.

But Safir's $40 million bombshell - a figure provided by a Ford source and confirmed by Wood as the starting point for the negotiations - was the beginning of the end.

Roots in 1985

The trademark problem actually began in 1985, when Safir Engineering Ltd. of Surrey, England, bought the rights to the GT40 name to set its vehicles apart from other replicas that were being made of the race car.

Safir Engineering produced copies of the car in the 1980s and 1990s, continuing the sequence of serial numbers from the original cars.

The company closed in 1999 and transferred the trademark and rights to produce and sell replacement parts for the cars to Safir GT40 Spares, the parts company owned by Wood and partners Brady Pack and John Sadler. So all the GT40s on the road will continue to be vintage models.

Said Bedore of Ford: "In the end, Ford decided to go a different route, and we think it worked out very well."

Bob Wood, an owner of the company that controls the rights to the GT 40 name, says he wanted Ford's new sports car to wear the GT40 badge. But Ford and Wood's company, Safir GT40 Spares Ltd., couldn't agree on a price. PHOTO: JIM CALLOWAY
Ford GT history

1963: Rebuffed in a bid to buy Ferrari, Henry Ford II decides that Ford Motor will build a car to race in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 1964: Ford GT is unveiled.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 1964: Ford enters 3 cars in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, where the GT40 moniker emerges. All 3 fail to finish.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fall 1964: Ford hires Carroll Shelby to head the GT effort.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 1966: The Ford GT40 finishes 1-2-3 at Le Mans. It wins the race again the next 3 years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1969: Ford drops GT40 racing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1981: Safir Engineering Ltd. begins building replica vehicles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1985: Safir registers the trademark for the GT40 name.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1999: Trademark is transferred to Safir GT40 Spares Ltd.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 2002: Ford unveils the GT40 concept car at the Detroit auto show.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 2002: Ford commits to the production car.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 2002: Ford says the production car will be named the Ford GT.
 
Automotive News
"We wanted the (new) car to be called the Ford GT40," says Bob Wood, part-owner of Safir GT40 Spares Ltd. of Cincinnati, which bought the GT40 name in 1999. The company sells replacement parts for the 160 GT40s built from 1964 to 1969.

"Ford was unwilling to negotiate and wouldn't make an offer," Wood said.

Ford spokesman Dan Bedore declined to discuss specifics of the negotiations, saying only that the two parties "couldn't come to mutually agreeable terms."

The name change to GT was announced Tuesday, Oct. 15.

Ford said it would build three copies of the sports car in late 2003 to commemorate the automaker's 1-2-3 finish at the 1966 24 Hours of LeMans as part of Ford's 100th anniversary celebration.

The automaker said it would build about 1,000 GTs annually starting in 2004, at a price of "substantially less" than $150,000.

A hairpin turn

In its press release, the automaker downplayed the name change, stating that the official name of the original race car was the Ford GT, and the GT40 label was only a popular nickname derived from the vehicle's 40-inch height.

Seriously, what more do you need. This relates to our topic more directly than anything so far, and it says GT40 is a nickname.


EDIT: Wow, we both found the same article.
 
back up what your saying cause you havent been! if you are so sure then you would have proof wouldnt you rather than just assuming

What is there to assume? That they suddenly and coincidentally decided to make chassis name GT 40 P?

You don't know any other explination, and therefore, can only assume I'm wrong when my reasoning for it to be changed makes sense!
 
It says the original RACE CAR was called GT that point has never been debated. They went on to call it the GT40 for the road cars and later race cars. Why else was it called GT40 racing in 1969? Or did I edit that in the article that YOU found too?!?
 
It says the original RACE CAR was called GT that point has never been debated. They went on to call it the GT40 for the road cars and later race cars. Why else was it called GT40 racing in 1969? Or did I edit that in the article that YOU found too?!?

Thank you!
Even as I said, the ORIGINAL ELEVEN cars were Ford GTs! When Ford put the car into production (hence the P in GT 40 P) in 1966, the race cars were called GT40s and bared the exact same chassis codes as the Production car.
 
What is there to assume? That they suddenly and coincidentally decided to make chassis name GT 40 P?

You don't know any other explination, and therefore, can only assume I'm wrong when my reasoning for it to be changed makes sense!
if you are so sure then why cant you back it up? you are the one thats so sure but yet to produce proof?
 
That is just plain LIES! I edited it to add one line at the top saying Time line for the new ford GT
Sorry, as you can see I edited that out later, I just didn't find it the first time I looked. Man this moves quick, I edited it like 10 seconds after I posted.
 
if you are so sure then why cant you back it up? you are the one thats so sure but yet to produce proof?

You don't need proof, b/c it's obvious!

But since you can't seem to get your thick skull on your shoulders, the reason the chassis code was changed is because in 1966, Ford decided to produce the GT40. The P in GT 40 P stands for Production, and afterwards, Ford decided to sell the race cars under the same chassis codes.

Now, PROVE ME WRONG instead of saying so.
 
no they didnt it was refered to more times brochure as gt rather than gt40,no doubt gt40 being meationed as that was the nickname and it was so people can relate to it.

Yet the brochured was titled for a Ford GT40. :rolleyes:
It said GT 2 times and GT40 once. This doesn't mean you're right in any form, to begin with.

If by that logic, it said GT40 & GT the same amount of times which means nothing. But the title is more proof than the material in the book.
 
You don't need proof, b/c it's obvious!

But since you can't seem to get your thick skull on your shoulders, the reason the chassis code was changed is because in 1966, Ford decided to produce the GT40. The P in GT 40 P stands for Production, and afterwards, Ford decided to sell the race cars under the same chassis codes.

Now, PROVE ME WRONG instead of saying so.

ill say it slowly

b a c k i t up

you making us prove what we say so why cant you,it isnt obvious to me why they changed it as you havent posted proof.
 
Thank you!
Even as I said, the ORIGINAL ELEVEN cars were Ford GTs! When Ford put the car into production (hence the P in GT 40 P) in 1966, the race cars were called GT40s and bared the exact same chassis codes as the Production car.
Not only the first 11.
media.ford.com
The Story of the Ford GT Name

True racing historians and enthusiasts know the legend behind the name of the Ford GT, which later became nicknamed GT40 in reference to the car’s overall height. The original race program was conceived by Henry Ford II after his attempt to purchase Ferrari fell through. Ford turned his attention to building his own program. The program’s roots can be traced back to England where, in 1963 Ford’s team, under the direction of Roy Lunn, began work on an all-new Ford race car, loosely based on the Eric Broadley’s Lola GT. In April of 1964, the car, proudly bearing the name Ford GT was presented to the press for the first time.

It was at Le Mans in June of 1964 that people began referring to the sleek racer as GT40. In its first year, all the Ford GTs retired from the race. Ford hired Carroll Shelby in 1964 to oversee the program. His first move was to install a 427 cubic inch engine in the car, which became known as the Ford GT40 Mark II. In February 1965, Ken Miles and Lloyd Ruby drove the Mark II to its first win at the Daytona 2000-km race breaking almost every established track record. The cars went on to their famous 1-2-3 victory at Le Mans in 1966 and dominated the endurance racing world for four straight years.

Throughout the years and despite the GT40 nickname and various versions including Mark II, III, IV and the less known and aesthetically best-forgotten “Mirage” models, at the insistence of Henry Ford II, the cars continued to the nomenclature “Ford GT” or just “Ford” on their body-sides and steering wheel hub.

The legendary Ford GT racing program culminated in June of 1969 with its last victory at Le Mans. Some cars continued to compete after 1969, but the Ford factory program came to a close. Various attempts to keep the flame burning in the form of newly available cars built from spare parts and replica parts continued through the 1970s to present, including a line of cars known as GT40 Mark Vs built by an aftermarket company, which even picked up on the chassis numbering sequence. No Ford badging appeared on these cars. The side stripe carried the name “GT40” or a “GT40 MkV” badge on the wheels.
So no, not just the first 11. That last part explains the "gt40" striped cars.



You don't need proof, b/c it's obvious!

But since you can't seem to get your thick skull on your shoulders, the reason the chassis code was changed is because in 1966, Ford decided to produce the GT40. The P in GT 40 P stands for Production, and afterwards, Ford decided to sell the race cars under the same chassis codes.

Now, PROVE ME WRONG instead of saying so.
We aren't the ones making the claims. I say I went to the moon, PROVE ME WRONG!! Also, I own a Ferrari F40, now you have to prove me wrong!
 
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