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That result shows there are no adults in the room at Manthey. They had 5 hrs to take that deserved penalty and try to race and get that time back, but instead played the "dont you know who we are card".

Did I hear the Aston driver was still in the hospital?
 
What's that the driver said to Kaz? oh yes, how able a competent GT mode, Multi class timing and scoring and 24 hour races. Oh wait no. I think I misheard.
 
I'm just leaving now, and Kaz is walking right infront of me! Wonder if he's heading for the same bus as me?

20250622_164955.jpg
 
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Ford in 4th 5th place
Damn. :indiff:

Ah well, was wishing for a Porsche victory other than Mustang, but BMW did really well with their only car. A faultless drive throughout the 24 hours together with a really strong package of a car means it deserved the victory that eventually went their way.

Aston is nowhere to be found near the top of the finishing order, and their highest-finishing car is actually a pre-Evo car :dunce: They deserved it for introducing that ugly duckling of an update to an already forgettable design of the Vantage :P

But eventually this is a much more entertaining race, even if we’re comparing it to Le Mans of a week ago, not to mention that humdrum of an endurance race called 2024 N24. :D

BTW, I’m kinda gutted to see no Merc GT3s finishing in the top 10. Do any of you know what happened to the #14 & #17 AMGs? I’d be happy to find any approximate relevant timestamps if their tumble was due to an accident on-track too. :)
There was a pass for that position somewhere at the end of that last lap but the broadcast didn't show it... :indiff:
Yeah, after some review of the live stream I heard the English commentators saying that there could’ve been an incident between the #28 Lambo and #65 Mustang in the run up to the chequered flag after Dottinger-Hohe that allowed the #28 to leapfrog the #65 in the final order. Really wishing they could’ve shown that battle instead of only showing the ROWE crew celebrating/Manthey in that disappointed state for 3 minutes straight…

I mean, they have covered battles further down the grid once the winner crossed the finish line before, so why not again? 🫤
 
That result shows there are no adults in the room at Manthey. They had 5 hrs to take that deserved penalty and try to race and get that time back, but instead played the "dont you know who we are card".
Damned if they did, damned if they didn't. The penalty was issued with about 3'ish hours to go, serving it would've handed the win to ROWE on a platter so the only hope they had was a reversal of that decision, slim a chance as it was. The result on the road showed they didn't have the pace to pull in a 2min gap that quickly.
Yeah, after some review of the live stream I heard the English commentators saying that there could’ve been an incident between the #28 Lambo and #65 Mustang in the run up to the chequered flag after Dottinger-Hohe that allowed the #28 to leapfrog the #65 in the final order. Really wishing they could’ve shown that battle instead of only showing the ROWE crew celebrating/Manthey in that disappointed state for 3 minutes straight…
That's what is annoying, they're more than capable of showing split-feeds but they didn't for that section after the chequered flag, to be honest the TV direction was a bit scattergun the entire race...
 
Different spelling?
So... kinda maybe but also maybe kinda not.

As you likely know, Japanese doesn't truly have a romanised alphabet. Romaji - the romanised form of the language, wherein the sounds of the phonetic/digraph kana and logograph kanji are transcribed into western lettering - depends on what method you use. In the most commonly used and the only one I know, Hepburn, 山内 is Yamauchi (山/yama is mountain, and I think 内/uchi means inside, so his surname means "inside the mountain" I guess) but it I suppose it could be Yamaouchi in a different one: the a-to-u sound might make an "o" on the way through, so another romanisation method might stick the "o" in there.

Yamauchi himself spells it that way, so really it should be that.

Also it could be an error, 'cos they happen :lol:
 
On one hand I do feel bad for Grello, they were doing a great job up until that point, but that one was definitely on Estre. Maybe they should have served that penalty early and got it over with save any doubt. Ah well, well done BMW.
 
On one hand I do feel bad for Grello, they were doing a great job up until that point, but that one was definitely on Estre. Maybe they should have served that penalty early and got it over with save any doubt. Ah well, well done BMW.
Definitely feel for them. They started on pole and lead for pretty much the entire race
 
Amazing 24h race. Maybe the most fun I ever had watching one.

Bit bummed that the "influencer BMW" lost to a car that probably should not have been in their class.

The ROWE win still leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth.
I think they penalized the outcome and not the offense.
A gap presented itself and Estre got his nose in. Had the Aston used its mirrors it could/would/should have seen that and just taken a wider line to not interfere with what was an amazing battle for the lead 20 hours into a 24 hour race up to this point.

Don't really care for who wins in the end because I don't have a dog in this race, but I feel like I've been robbed of an epic battle to the end.


Anyway - fantastic race. Can't wait for next year.
 
I think they penalized the outcome and not the offense.
A gap presented itself and Estre got his nose in. Had the Aston used its mirrors it could/would/should have seen that and just taken a wider line to not interfere with what was an amazing battle for the lead 20 hours into a 24 hour race up to this point.
I would hope that if a similar thing happens without the victim's car flipping, the penalty is the same. If it's not, there will be a tonne of conjecture. THEN we can talk about whether or not we were robbed of a proper fight to the line.
 
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I really enjoyed the race week, and I was v lucky to catch the Estre incident on TV just as I came out of the shower - its surprisingly difficult to follow what's going on with sketchy/no Internet, so knowing exactly what happened then was v useful.

I'm also on the side of Manthey here, but I was impressed by Olaf Manthey's decision not to appeal, and for the result at the podium to be respected.

I'm waiting on my bus out of Adenau right now, and the Subaru team are having a debrief in a car park 50 yards away - Adenau is a terrific place to stay for the N24, and someone just went past in a Porsche Carrera GT... onwards to Spa for me...
 
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I would hope that if a similar thing happens without the victim's car flipping, the penalty is the same. If it's not, there will be a tonne of conjecture.
Hindhaugh said during the commentary that the N24 doesn't operate on a strict offence-not-outcome basis, with stewards making it clear that if you end someone else's race you will be more harshly penalised.

__

Yes it's unfortunate that it affected the outcome of the race, but imagine for a moment that van der Linde had made that exact move on Estre, and flipped him out of the race... I cannot believe for a second that Estre, Manthey, and Porsche fans wouldn't be expecting, demanding, or hoping for a penalty for the BMW.
 
Hindhaugh said during the commentary that the N24 doesn't operate on a strict offence-not-outcome basis, with stewards making it clear that if you end someone else's race you will be more harshly penalised.

__

Yes it's unfortunate that it affected the outcome of the race, but imagine for a moment that van der Linde had made that exact move on Estre, and flipped him out of the race... I cannot believe for a second that Estre, Manthey, and Porsche fans wouldn't be expecting, demanding, or hoping for a penalty for the BMW.
To be fair in that hypothetical scenario Estre would not have been shown blue flags twice and would have been overtaken in a fight for position and not lapped like the Aston was.
 
To be fair in that hypothetical scenario Estre would not have been shown blue flags twice and would have been overtaken in a fight for position and not lapped like the Aston was.
Neither of those things change anything, the cars don't have to yield to Blue flags, and it's still down to the overtaking car to make the move cleanly. You might disagree that either of those things should be the case, but at the end of the day, that's how it is - and Estre, and Manthey, know that.
 
Neither of those things change anything, the cars don't have to yield to Blue flags, and it's still down to the overtaking car to make the move cleanly. You might disagree that either of those things should be the case, but at the end of the day, that's how it is - and Estre, and Manthey, know that.
It seems less about yielding and more about simply holding the outside line when you're being lapped, doesn't it? I get that Estre wasn't fully alongside, but he did make contact with the side, not the rear - he had his nose in.

Yes, it was clearly clumsy from Estre, but I’d argue the Aston shares some of the blame. A quick glance in the mirrors could have prevented the whole incident.
 
Adding to that, I remember reading somewhere that one of the reason these penalties were implemented for the Nürburgring 24h was that apparently some GT3 drivers were pulling off risky maneuvers on GT4 cars in the past because in their mind, these „lesser“ slower cars should pay attention to them and be careful, not the other way round. I‘m not saying that Estre shares this mindset but it would explain why the N24h’s race control is so strict with penalties now.
 
Didn't the contact happen in Miss-Hit-Miss, where you're literally supposed to miss the first (and third) apex?
Yeah it did. He was still outside relative to Estre who got his nose in by keeping it tight. Estre was certainly betting on the Aston looking into his mirror and going wide into the next corner given Estre got his nose in.

Anyway. It was clumsy.
 
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It seems less about yielding and more about simply holding the outside line when you're being lapped, doesn't it?
Then perhaps they should make that the rule, and Estre can make that assumption in future. But for now, the car in front is entitled to hold the racing line, which the Aston did. It's simply not the responsibility of the car in front to jump out of the way - so it should not be an assumption the following driver makes (unless the car in front is signalling or has clearly pulled off line before hand)

I mean I get it... a 0.5 sec stupid decision undid 23:59:59.5 of great work that was absolutely deserved of the win... but that's racing.
 
He was still outside relative to Estre who got his nose in by keeping it tight.
I have no idea what the overlap requirements are in GT3/N24, but just having your nose in doesn't seem like enough - even on blue flags, or perhaps especially on blue flags as the onus is on the leading car to make the pass on the lapped car safely while the lapped car is supposed to stay on its regular line. Which it did.

There's an ideal spot just after Miss-Hit-Miss. And isn't it convention for about-to-be-lapped cars in the N24 to indicate the side on which to pass them?

It was clumsy.
I'll say!

The magnitude of the penalty is its own discussion and I'm not sufficiently au fait with the penalty matrix to agree or disagree, but shoving your nose in on a car you intend to lap while it's clearly on the racing line (which is off-apex there) and not giving you an indication which side it wants you to go is... yeah, let's go for clumsy.
 
Didn't the contact happen in Miss-Hit-Miss, where you're literally supposed to miss the first (and third) apex?
Was it the first apex where they collided? I'm not sure exactly, but I thought that the racing line at that point avoided the apex, hence why Estre might have felt that the AM would not turn in so much?
 
Was it the first apex where they collided? I'm not sure exactly, but I thought that the racing line at that point avoided the apex, hence why Estre might have felt that the AM would not turn in so much?
I only caught it briefly but it looks like the second - so the Aston missed the first apex as it ought and turned in for the second, and the Porsche appears to have interpreted that as room being left on the right and aimed to make the pass at, as these things go, Hit.

The braking from the Aston on the entry for Hit probably didn't help with that interpretation, though it is a GT4 car, nor the BMW being half a second behind the Porsche.
 
Taking the curbs on the right of Estre as the subject.

Miss:

1750684469988.png


Hit:

1750684504881.png


Miss:

1750684586958.png



I think the giveaway is in the first frame. The Aston isn't leaving Estre a gap, he's just on the racing line, and that's evidenced by the fact the M4 we're on board with is taking the same line.
 
Adding to that, I remember reading somewhere that one of the reason these penalties were implemented for the Nürburgring 24h was that apparently some GT3 drivers were pulling off risky maneuvers on GT4 cars in the past because in their mind, these „lesser“ slower cars should pay attention to them and be careful, not the other way round. I‘m not saying that Estre shares this mindset but it would explain why the N24h’s race control is so strict with penalties now.
Estre always takes a lot of risk while overtaking slower cars. I remember seeing him multiple time overtaking cars with 2 wheels on the grass.

I guess it's a risk vs reward thing and this time he went a tiny bit too far. And yes I feel like it was deserved.
 
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