GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[Imari]

You obviously never had a good feel for the game if thats what you think, ABS did limit suspension travel in GT6, and i did corner better with ABS off, its very slight so i can understand you may have missed it

It's very slight, so you may have made it up over the guy who has thousands of hours digging into the physics systems.

 

[Haitauer]

It's very slight, so you may have made it up over the guy who has thousands of hours digging into the physics systems.

could this be related? just my observations/opinions why cornering is different w/wo ABS in GTS - could also work similarly in GT6. Just a guess..

Tried several lap around brads indy in gr4, and didnt notice any difference in grip. The difference in car behavior i believe comes from brake balance working differently. When abs is off, theres either brake balance working as it is set front/back or then one locks the wheels. When using abs there is the full brake balance effect where in full braking front is always braking more due to more powerful brakes and weight transfer and brake balance ie. All the way back works only when not on full braking.

This can easily be seen as using abs full braking will result understeer, and slightly easing the brakes will engage oversteer.

Quoting my self feels always kind a lame.. Here is the test by GordonS 👍



this shows we only have so much control over the brake balance which leads to different behaviour w/wo ABS.

 

[killerjimbag]

You obviously never had a good feel for the game if thats what you think, ABS did limit suspension travel in GT6, and i did corner better with ABS off, its very slight so i can understand you may have missed it

Sorry Jimmy, but that was the best I've read in awhile. Lol. Yeah, he's had no feel for the game. God I'm still laughing. You just made my day.

 

[PJTierney]

You obviously never had a good feel for the game if thats what you think, ABS did limit suspension travel in GT6, and i did corner better with ABS off, its very slight so i can understand you may have missed it

Gran Turismo 6 had exportable telemetry via MoTeC. If what you say is true, surely there would be some objective data to back it up somewhere?

Outside of initial tuning research I didn't follow the physics discussion for that game so apologies if such research was already posted before.

 

[Johnnypenso]

could this be related? just my observations/opinions why cornering is different w/wo ABS in GTS - could also work similarly in GT6. Just a guess..



Quoting my self feels always kind a lame.. Here is the test by GordonS 👍



this shows we only have so much control over the brake balance which leads to different behaviour w/wo ABS.

No one is disputing that car behaviour changes under braking without ABS. This is a given. Once you have the ability to lock up front and/or back tires everything changes - under braking - as expected.

 

[OdeFinn]

 

[Johnnypenso]

A short video of a car swerving in the physics thread. Cool story bro'.

 

[diesel97]

A short video of a car swerving in the physics thread. Cool story bro'.

I must have missed the SRF light on the dashboard being in the off mode.

 

[Haitauer]

No one is disputing that car behaviour changes under braking without ABS. This is a given. Once you have the ability to lock up front and/or back tires everything changes - under braking - as expected.

Once again aggressive reply for no apparent reason.

No one is saying its not changing. That post was my thought why and how it might change and why it could make one feel the car corners or grips differently. And you missed the point in my post - as using abs more easily generates the point in full braking where front is dominating even if balance is all the way rear and wheels are still not locking.

Think few steps beyond the obvious answer to find the right question.. Things are a lot less black and white like that and a lot less to argue. It seems to be all about who's right and who's wrong in this thread instead of conversation to find the best answer for all..

 

[diesel97]

Once again aggressive reply for no apparent reason.



Think few steps beyond the obvious answer to find the right question.. Things are a lot less black and white like that and a lot less to argue. It seems to be all about who's right and who's wrong in this thread instead of conversation to find the best answer for all..

This is what they call"alternative facts"

 

[Haitauer]

A short video of a car swerving in the physics thread. Cool story bro'.

This attacking on every post is 🤬 ridiculous..

That was very much physics related and yet you have problem with it

This is what they call"alternative facts"

Didnt quite get that - but ok.

 

[ImaRobot]

Think few steps beyond the obvious answer to find the right question.. Things are a lot less black and white like that and a lot less to argue. It seems to be all about who's right and who's wrong in this thread instead of conversation to find the best answer for all..

Its a thread about physics, there should be no wiggle room or guesses. So those that are going to repeatedly post incorrect information are going to get called on it, especially if that person has a horrible reputation of making plenty claims of things that he has no idea about. The best answer is accurate information, and sometimes, thats not best for all.

This attacking on every post is 🤬 ridiculous..

That was very much physics related and yet you have problem with it

He posts a 15 second video of a car with absolutely no context. What exactly is the relevance here and what does it have to do with the tire model?

 

[Haitauer]

I must have missed the SRF light on the dashboard being in the off mode.

I must have missed the point of this message..

Its a thread about physics, there should be no wiggle room or guesses.

Its a thread about a game simulating physics and trying to make it feel like the physics of the real world. As far as i know no game has been able to recreate 100% real physics and until that happens theres plenty of wiggle and guesses.

Ps. If the recreation happens let me be the first to know..

He posts a 15 second video of a car with absolutely no context. What exactly is the relevance here and what does it have to do with the tire model?

15 seconds of tires flexing has nothing to do with tire model.. Wow.. What..

 

[OdeFinn]

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I must have missed the point of this message..

Try reading it again, then.

15 seconds of tires flexing has nothing to do with tire model.. Wow.. What..

The video is posted without any context, with no explanation given. As far as this thread is concerned, it's fifteen seconds of random slowed-down beta footage.

What insight is there? We've known about the tire flex for a while now. Is this some sort of evidence for the "hand of god"/ABS-off-unlocks-different-physics argument? Who knows, since the creator of the video doesn't bother telling us.

It's yet another example of person X asking Y to do all the legwork for X's claim.

 

[ImaRobot]

Its a thread about a game simulating physics and trying to make it feel like the physics of the real world. As far as i know no game has been able to recreate 100% real physics and until that happens theres plenty of wiggle and guesses. The person that we're talking about has made nothing but guesses, and every single one has been wrong, so I fail to see how that should be allowed.

Ps. If the recreation happens let me be the first to know..

The fact that there hasn't been a game to 100% recreate reality doesn't mean that physics are open to a subjective opinion. It is still grounded in fact, the tests that are done, therefor no wiggle room or guess should be included, at all. It's all verifiable, or it isn't.

15 seconds of tires flexing has nothing to do with tire model.. Wow.. What..

and in relation to the thread or discussion, whats the context? There is absolutely none. This might as well be posted in the videos/pictures thread rather than this thread.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Once again aggressive reply for no apparent reason.

No one is saying its not changing. That post was my thought why and how it might change and why it could make one feel the car corners or grips differently. And you missed the point in my post - as using abs more easily generates the point in full braking where front is dominating even if balance is all the way rear and wheels are still not locking.

Think few steps beyond the obvious answer to find the right question.. Things are a lot less black and white like that and a lot less to argue. It seems to be all about who's right and who's wrong in this thread instead of conversation to find the best answer for all..

What is aggressive about stating facts? We're still trying to determine if switching off ABS removes the hidden driver's aids no? In that case it is black and white and someone is right and someone is wrong. It either happens or it doesn't. There is no best answer for all, there is the truth and then there is everything else, essentially nonsense.

This attacking on every post is 🤬 ridiculous..

That was very much physics related and yet you have problem with it



Didnt quite get that - but ok.

See above. I've seen plenty of cars swerving and changing direction in the dozens of videos I've watched so far. So what? It's related to physics only if someone adds some context to relate it to physics which wasn't done. Also, the previous assertion that the hidden driver aids disappear upon removing ABS has yet to be adequately demonstrated.

 

[OdeFinn]

The video is posted without any context, with no explanation given. As far as this thread is concerned, it's fifteen seconds of random slowed-down beta footage.

Sorry if first video leaves no contexts, second shows also how body reacts to that sidewall flex, making me to believe at it's in physics engine, not only eye candy.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry if first video leaves no contexts, second shows also how body reacts to that sidewall flex, making me to believe at it's in physics engine, not only eye candy.

It makes me believe it's a visual representation only until and if someone puts forth some evidence that it's also a part of the physics engine. Evidence other than, "making me believe" that is.

 

[diesel97]

Sorry if first video leaves no contexts, second shows also how body reacts to that sidewall flex, making me to believe at it's in physics engine, not only eye candy.

What does this have to do with driver aids? Stop trying to move the goal post.

 

[marcvic]

Try reading it again, then.



The video is posted without any context, with no explanation given. As far as this thread is concerned, it's fifteen seconds of random slowed-down beta footage.

What insight is there? We've known about the tire flex for a while now. Is this some sort of evidence for the "hand of god"/ABS-off-unlocks-different-physics argument? Who knows, since the creator of the video doesn't bother telling us.

It's yet another example of person X asking Y to do all the legwork for X's claim.

I think there have maybe been 2 or 3 videos or gifs that display the tire flex (which is not very much). I for one, welcome as much footage of it as possible. And in his video this seems to be one of few videos that really shows the entire cars weight transfer in relation to the deformation.

Yeah, there is no text context, but the poster has gotten himself into quite a bit of heat with his explanations in the past

 

[Haitauer]

Try reading it again, then.

Still cant quite grasp the point how SRF light is relevant to sidewall flexing..

Is this some sort of evidence for the "hand of god"/ABS-off-unlocks-different-physics argument?

Im not the one dragging old irrelevant posts to this new one. And i don't have to take sides to say nor is OdeFinn.

The video is posted without any context, with no explanation given.

The title of the video reads "GTS beta 1.05 Tire Model Sidewall Flex?". Are subtitles or voice over required? This is the kind of nitpicking that fills the threads with irrelevant wise:censored: comments.

Few active members are getting awfully little comments from moderators concerning the habbit of picking a fight where there isn't one to fight.

What does this have to do with driver aids? Stop trying to move the goal post.

It doesnt - no one said it does. I didnt know there was a goal post to move aside the physics conversation..

 

[ImaRobot]

Im not the one dragging old irrelevant posts to this new one. And i don't have to take sides to say nor is OdeFinn.

No, you're the one dragging a discussion about how someone is posting as nice as you wish they would.

The title of the video reads "GTS beta 1.05 Tire Model Sidewall Flex?". Are subtitles or voice over required? This is the kind of nitpicking that fills the threads with irrelevant wise:censored: comments.

Few active members are getting awfully little comments from moderators concerning the habbit of picking a fight where there isn't one to fight.

No, the title of the video we are talking about(the first one that was posted) was just labeled "Tire Model" with a question mark at the end of it. No, what would be required is some actual context as to why it was even posted in here. If not, like I said, go post that in the video thread. It's funny how you talk about nitpicking and irrelevancy when you keep talking about how someone isnt responding nice. Whats the relevance of that and the thread, and how is that not being picky?

Report the posts then, and move on.

 

[Scaff]

I'm going to make this really simple.

• Any videos or images posted without explanation will be deleted.
• Any claim made must be supported with some form of evidence that can be tested by any member who wants to
• Any claim of how that then relates to real world physics must be backed up with good, independent sources.

Should any member fail to follow these requirements going forward the posts will be removed and formal warnings will be issued.

This is not subject to debate or complaint, it will be followed from this point on.

It will be added to the opening thread and any attempt to ignore it, argue against it or circumvent it in any way will be considered an AUP violation.

 

[Haitauer]

It makes me believe it's a visual representation only until and if someone puts forth some evidence that it's also a part of the physics engine. Evidence other than, "making me believe" that is.

And how is anyone ever going to do that? By analyzing the code behind the game? I thought this is a discussion not a fact sheet..

It's funny how you talk about nitpicking and irrelevancy when you keep talking about how someone isnt responding nice. Whats the relevance of that and the thread, and how is that not being picky?

The difference is that im not creating a problem but reacting to one that already exists.

 

[ImaRobot]

And how is anyone ever going to do that? By analyzing the code behind the game? I thought this is a discussion not a fact sheet..

Its both, A discussion about facts. You do that by providing evidence. This is not a new thing. Discussion of physics and what games are doing what, and providing video proof and actually knowing about what you're talking about, has been going on for quiet a long time.

Slapping a video on a thread with not so much as a single letter, and running off is not a discussion. At all.

 

[Tornado]

This attacking on every post is 🤬 ridiculous..

Once again aggressive reply for no apparent reason

Things are a lot less black and white like that and a lot less to argue. It seems to be all about who's right and who's wrong in this thread instead of conversation to find the best answer for all..

The title of the video reads "GTS beta 1.05 Tire Model Sidewall Flex?". Are subtitles or voice over required? This is the kind of nitpicking that fills the threads with irrelevant wise:censored: comments.

Few active members are getting awfully little comments from moderators concerning the habbit of picking a fight where there isn't one to fight.

The difference is that im not creating a problem but reacting to one that already exists.

OdeFinn is a big boy. He can defend his own posts. Unless you're just a sockpuppet account, there is even less point in you posting a half dozen variations of LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE than there is OdeFinn posting videos that don't mean anything without any explanation on his part.

 

[marcvic]

I'm going to make this really simple.

• Any videos or images posted without explanation will be deleted.
• Any claim made must be supported with some form of evidence that can be tested by any member who wants to
• Any claim of how that then relates to real world physics must be backed up with good, independent sources.

Should any member fail to follow these requirements going forward the posts will be removed and formal warnings will be issued.

This is not subject to debate or complaint, it will be followed from this point on.

It will be added to the opening thread and any attempt to ignore it, argue against it or circumvent it in any way will be considered an AUP violation.

I legitimately really appreciated the video - it showed the entire cars weight transfer in relation to the deformation. Very few, if any, posted gifs/videos have shown that. Had he typed "Tire deformation in relation to weight transfer" would that have made it OK?

I'm not defending the poster, but I did like his video, and was able to take away something from it.

 

[Haitauer]

OdeFinn is a big boy. He can defend his own posts. Unless you're just a sockpuppet account, there is even less point in you posting a half dozen variations of LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE than there is OdeFinn posting videos that don't mean anything without any explanation on his part.

OdeFinn is just a tiny piece of this problem and doesnt need defending. If you read the posts you see its not just the comments this one video got im pointing out.

 

[ImaRobot]

OdeFinn is just a tiny piece of this problem and doesnt need defending. If you read the posts you see its not just the comments this one video got im pointing out.

Odefinn is the main part of this problem, as he is constantly posting false information, or just completely wrong about it when he discusses it. It's the reason this started, again.

I fail to understand how you say he doesn't need defending, but thats what you're constantly doing.