GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[diesel97]

It doesnt - no one said it does. I didnt know there was a goal post to move aside the physics conversation..

I guess you should have backed up a page or so before jumping in, the conversation was about "god mode"/ SRF. It was stated that it could be turned off and on by the ABS mode. Somebody got called out on this and was asked to prove the claim and the goal post got moved to tire flex to pivot the conversation.I hope this clears your questions up and if doesn't sorry it is out of my hands

 

[marcvic]

Whoever has the Beta (and time to spare) - could you make a video that compares tire deformation at varying speeds? And maybe comparisons of deformation from violently jerking the wheel vs. more subtle steering inputs?

 

[diesel97]

I guess you should have backed up a page or so before jumping in, the conversation was about "god mode"/ SRF. It was stated that it could be turned off and on by the ABS mode. Somebody got called out on this and when there was no evidence provided the goalpost got moved to tire flex to pivot the conversation.I hope this clears your questions up and if doesn't sorry it is out of my hands

 

[Motor City Hami]

You obviously never had a good feel for the game if thats what you think, ABS did limit suspension travel in GT6, and i did corner better with ABS off, its very slight so i can understand you may have missed it

I would agree partially with part of your statement. I'm not sure that ABS limited suspension travel. I would agree that suspension movement or front end dive could be different with ABS zero in the hard braking zones. Just a hypothesis, but having to be more careful on the brakes to keep the car from locking up is much more difficult than just standing on the brakes for the full braking zone with ABS1. ABS zero made it more difficult to reach to right on the limit of threshold braking. You have to be a pretty experienced gamer to consistently be right on top of threshold braking with ABS 0. Thus, most racers have to ease off a bit more to avoid lockup and therefore are not as close to threshold braking than ABS1 situations. And if you are less close to threshold braking, you are braking less and could see less front end dive in the process? Which, could lead to a need for different brake balance and damper settings to make up for the difference on corner entry.

Braking zone and corner entry aside, I could not find a difference in mid to high speed sections of the track where either a touch of the brakes is needed or none at all. Maybe the differing settings needed for ABS 0 on corner entry had a trade off effect to other areas of your tunes? Regardless, ABS 0 did not solve the massive understeer on exit issue that most cars in GT5 and 6 had. Only the ride height glitch and massively odd damper settings could help solve that, not ABS 0.... in my opinion.

 

[Haitauer]

Tried several lap around brads indy in gr4, and didnt notice any difference in grip. The difference in car behavior i believe comes from brake balance working differently. When abs is off, theres either brake balance working as it is set front/back or then one locks the wheels. When using abs there is the full brake balance effect where in full braking front is always braking more due to more powerful brakes and weight transfer and brake balance ie. All the way back works only when not on full braking.

This can easily be seen as using abs full braking will result understeer, and slightly easing the brakes will engage oversteer.

I guess you should have backed up a page or so before jumping in, the conversation was about "god mode"/ SRF. It was stated that it could be turned off and on by the ABS mode. Somebody got called out on this and was asked to prove the claim and the goal post got moved to tire flex to pivot the conversation.I hope this clears your questions up and if doesn't sorry it is out of my hands

I already tested that ABS god mode and reported my thoughts about it..

Going to test few things tonight if i have time. Some thoughts on tire flexing.

 

[diesel97]

I already tested that ABS god mode and reported my thoughts about it..

Going to test few things tonight if i have time. Some thoughts on tire flexing.

You didn't make the god mode claims..., or did you?

 

[Haitauer]

You didn't make the god mode, claims..., or did you?

No.. Not the ABS+SRF. But i looked into it, tested it and moved on. Thats allowed? I am a strong supporter for the idea of forced srf though. And as long as theres this srf like effect, what ever it is, its very hard to make any too credible testing over the physics.

Has anyone else tested the collisions? Is there more vertical movement or has it just been few occasional cases.

 

[diesel97]

No.. Not the ABS+SRF. But i looked into it, tested it and moved on. Thats allowed? I am a strong supporter for the idea of forced srf though. And as long as theres this srf like effect, what ever it is, its very hard to make any too credible testing over the physics.

As long as we can turn it off with ABS

 

[cjr3559]

I haven't played the beta in a while, but last time I played was around when the media cup started which was shortly after the release of v1.05.

If my memory serves, the car handling characteristics became much more arcade like, or SRF-like, or "god like" or whatever you want to call it. ABS or not, whatever it is, it's terrible.

 

[PzR Slim]

I haven't played the beta in a while, but last time I played was around when the media cup started which was shortly after the release of v1.05.

If my memory serves, the car handling characteristics became much more arcade like, or SRF-like, or "god like" or whatever you want to call it. ABS or not, whatever it is, it's terrible.

This mirrors my experience almost perfectly. And this is why I haven't played the beta for a while. I hear a lot of people saying that they think the physics are now good and the ffb feels really good, some say even better than AC and I just do not understand how anyone could come to that conclusion.

 

[fortbo]

So is SRF forced on?

 

[Johnnypenso]

So is SRF forced on?

That's what I see a lot of people assuming but there's no definitive proof either way. Cars behave as if it was forced on apparently but it could be simply baked right into the physics for all we know. We'll have to wait and see what happens with 1.06 and beyond and what options are available.

 

[praiano63]

From what i remember of SRF , 1 year and a half i´ve burned my PS3 , we can´t call this GT sport aid SRF.
SRF was a huge help that let you trash the car across any turn succession like the first 2 km of the nordschleife for example, not only limiting and assisting your drift but also your rear end under accel out corner even with a high LSD accel setting and extra grip everywhere.

This is not happening in GT sport. In my point of view this new help behavior work together with tire physics only.
It just stop the rear end at a certain angle of drift and kick it back inline. You can feel a bigger amount of rear grip entring to rescue you from a spin , or at least maintaining you in the pace of a pack if you´re racing.

We have now a GR3 Nordschleife event for the americas. Take a fast car like the GTR or BMW or any top car with extreme settings on this track, take flugplatz double right full gas.
After the first apex , to be fast there you need to open a bit your driving input after the little depression because at the landing there is a little compression that give you an excess of front grip , right in the middle of the double turn.
If you insist to give more wheel input there , you´ll feel your rear end going away very hard.
Any car in a normal game physics condition (of course with the extreme settings that the help allow to drive there) would spin immediately. Here is a great point to feel the help. It correct immediately your driving line and stop the rear drift after just a few degrees out of the line.

Excuse my english , sorry if i was not very clear in my report, but this is what i feel about this driving help.

 

[Haitauer]

SRF was a huge help that let you trash the car across any turn succession like the first 2 km of the nordschleife for example, not only limiting and assisting your drift but also your rear end under accel out corner even with a high LSD accel setting and extra grip everywhere.

That is pretty much how i feel the game is after 1.05. Even off track.

Then again i recognize the srf stopping a slide, but the difference is that its how i felt it at gt6. Like rear wheels hitting perfect glued asphalt when they should start sliding. a matter of driving style? Should be similar feeling since most of my tunes in gt6 are based on yours..

Cars behave as if it was forced on apparently but it could be simply baked right into the physics for all we know.

Im also just using forced srf as a term to describe my feel with the game not knowing if it is an aid or part of the physics. Im hoping for the former of cource. it could just be too much grip and grip loss off track similar to gt6 "low". Then again i havent played gt6 for a while, but my impression is theres even more grip offtrack in GTS at the moment.

 

[super_gt]

This is not happening in GT sport. In my point of view this new help behavior work together with tire physics only.
It just stop the rear end at a certain angle of drift and kick it back inline. You can feel a bigger amount of rear grip entring to rescue you from a spin , or at least maintaining you in the pace of a pack if you´re racing.

I wonder how effective is this new hidden AID.For example if you put front racing soft/rear comfort hard tyres will you be able to spin the car at 180 degrees and completely lose control.

 

[another_jakhole]

Is it more difficult or impossible to drift as practically as before? Does it affect driving more like a technically realistic driving aid?

 

[Haitauer]

I wonder how effective is this new hidden AID.For example if you put front racing soft/rear comfort hard tyres will you be able to spin the car at 180 degrees and completely lose control.

As long as we are not given any choice of tires this is hard to tell. As is how the physics would work on "street" tyres.

 

[praiano63]

I wonder how effective is this new hidden AID.For example if you put front racing soft/rear comfort hard tyres will you be able to spin the car at 180 degrees and completely lose control.

Is it more difficult or impossible to drift as practically as before? Does it affect driving more like a technically realistic driving aid?

I´ll do some more test with road cars later , it seems to work the same way as racing tires but with a softer reaction and more amplitude according to the grip. I´ll try to push harder we have the dragon trail option today for the americas , i´m not good at all for drift but i´ll do my best for the test.

 

[Haitauer]

Sidenote: was yesterday testing the tire flex (which i couldnt see that well in regular ps4) when i noticed i had very strong lift-off oversteer in megane, and what more that oversteer was instantly corrected by accelerating. Will post a video later if necessary. Havent driven too much of the fwds in gts yet, so dont really have any comparison.

 

[praiano63]

I´ve take the genesis N300 on Dragon trail to check his drifting behaviors when the car reach a certain angle where the AID clearly make his effect.
It´s easy to drift ,less than 1.04 but still easy , even for me , i´m a very bad drifter and my skills are too poor to perform this without any kind of help... i´m really horrible for this kind of stunts....
You can clearly feel that the car stop on his angle and you can control it easily with wheel and accel inputs.
At the end of the video i´ve tested if it was possible to spin and it was doable only with an acel input at the right moment . My LSD accel was setted around 40 , hand brake of course give the same result cuting clearly the aid , this is why i think it is limited to the new tire physics model and not to the entire car´s physics like SRF seems to be in GT6. The inertia only is not enough for a full 180° spin.

 

[sems4arsenal]

That's what I see a lot of people assuming but there's no definitive proof either way. Cars behave as if it was forced on apparently but it could be simply baked right into the physics for all we know. We'll have to wait and see what happens with 1.06 and beyond and what options are available.

Like stated above, it isn't really SRF but some sort of aid that sorts out the car for you. The cars are still easy enough to initiate a spin but the game kicks in and adds some extra grip to avoid a crash.

I feel that assist would be more effective with the DS4 (with the very fast steering of the Analog) but you can still lose the rear with the wheel.

I quite enjoyed the GT3 at the ring combo of yesterday (missed the races though) so hopefully it is still there.

 

[cjr3559]

Ok, here are my thoughts on the physics/handling since day 1 beta release. I use no aids (ABS, TCS, etc).

First time playing through I had no wheel and used a controller with default settings and it was brutally difficult to control the cars without spinning, running off, etc.

Then I picked up a G29 still early on during the release. Ran default settings and felt the physics/handling were good. The brakes took some getting used to, but the cornering characteristics and FFB were solid.

Then came along v1.05, and all of the sudden everything changed for the worse. You could basically drive over curbs, hit cars and turn on a dime with no repercussions. It was so bad I started playing PCars, but when that became tedious I just put the G27 back on my rig, swapped out the PS4 with my PS3 and played GT6.

Since then I've moved the PS4 into my living room (without my rig) and fired up the beta and used the DS4. The beta plays completely different from way back in March. It's almost as if the physics were tailored to make driving with a controller easier. It was actually kind of fun, but I still want the original physics so I can use a wheel.

I'm starting to think v1.05 was designed for the media cup in mind, as I wonder if the media players are probably using the DS4. If they had to use the DS4 with the original physics it may have been too much to manage.

 

[Haitauer]

posting here as even if not totally physics related this has a pretty big impact how the car feels G29 vs DS4.

No Aids here and the steering angle limit for DS4 is massive. At 50kmh steeringwheel goes from 180degrees to about 90degrees and around 100kmh to around 45degrees.. And one can see the actual difference how the wheels turn.

And the fact the steeringwheel only turns 180 degrees in the first place..

there is difference on my speed there through gears so its not 100% relevant (its 3am here) and i hit the grass slightly, but to see just how differently im able to unsettle the car on G29 shows just how different game it is with Wheel vs DS4.

DS4:



G29:

 

[Haitauer]

(double due to media limit)

And you introduce that difference to a MR GT3 car and.. BWOAH.. you get the point..

Full acceleration 1st gear full steering locks from 60-70kmh

DS4

G29

 

[wrighton]

So I don't know how related this is but I thought I'd give the Ring a go with ABS Off for the first time.

It took me a couple of laps to get the feel for no ABS as I've been driving with it on since the start of the beta.

Anyhoo, once I set a time with it off I then turned it back on to see if I could tell if there was any difference. Here's the result of the back to back laps:

Probably best watched full screen on a PC.


For me personally I couldn't feel any difference in the physics of the car. The only thing that changed was me being more conscious of braking and using less pedal in the braking zones. After comparing my two laps afterwards I was quite suprised at how close they where!

I use the t300rs for GTS with all assists off in manual mode. I also have (for now) a G29 I used to drive with if there's anything that wants comparing.

 

[praiano63]

So I don't know how related this is but I thought I'd give the Ring a go with ABS Off for the first time.

It took me a couple of laps to get the feel for no ABS as I've been driving with it on since the start of the beta.

Anyhoo, once I set a time with it off I then turned it back on to see if I could tell if there was any difference. Here's the result of the back to back laps:

Probably best watched full screen on a PC.


For me personally I couldn't feel any difference in the physics of the car. The only thing that changed was me being more conscious of braking and using less pedal in the braking zones. After comparing my two laps afterwards I was quite suprised at how close they where!

I use the t300rs for GTS with all assists off in manual mode. I also have (for now) a G29 I used to drive with if there's anything that wants comparing.

What GR.3 car is it?

 

[Haitauer]

So I don't know how related this is but I thought I'd give the Ring a go with ABS Off for the first time.

It took me a couple of laps to get the feel for no ABS as I've been driving with it on since the start of the beta.

Anyhoo, once I set a time with it off I then turned it back on to see if I could tell if there was any difference. Here's the result of the back to back laps:

Probably best watched full screen on a PC.


For me personally I couldn't feel any difference in the physics of the car. The only thing that changed was me being more conscious of braking and using less pedal in the braking zones. After comparing my two laps afterwards I was quite suprised at how close they where!

I use the t300rs for GTS with all assists off in manual mode. I also have (for now) a G29 I used to drive with if there's anything that wants comparing.

What GR.3 car is it?

Didnt find any difference either as i tested with gr4 earlier. Only difference comes from how one is able to use the pedal.

 

[wrighton]

What GR.3 car is it?

It was with the GTR.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So I don't know how related this is but I thought I'd give the Ring a go with ABS Off for the first time.

It took me a couple of laps to get the feel for no ABS as I've been driving with it on since the start of the beta.

Anyhoo, once I set a time with it off I then turned it back on to see if I could tell if there was any difference. Here's the result of the back to back laps:

Probably best watched full screen on a PC.


For me personally I couldn't feel any difference in the physics of the car. The only thing that changed was me being more conscious of braking and using less pedal in the braking zones. After comparing my two laps afterwards I was quite suprised at how close they where!

I use the t300rs for GTS with all assists off in manual mode. I also have (for now) a G29 I used to drive with if there's anything that wants comparing.

Very nice and smooth driving without ABS. Well done:tup: Your observations seem to match the video. There were corners in the beginning that I swear were exact duplicates of each other

 

[PlutoDelic]

I may get roasted for this but...

Motion Steering + All "helpers" turned off put's the fun factor back to GT4 level. Stress factors too.