GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Robin]

the only think thats annoyin is the shadow.....shouldnt there be black under this bit of the tire???

 

[TriplePlay]

Newsflash: PLASTIC IS IN!!!!!!!!

The first two look horrid. The last two look great, but the plastic is back, and it's worse then ever. From what I've seen, forza looks like it's another power-sliding PGR.

 

[Robin]

I must say that the colours look abit of a MATT finish.....quite dull and not shiny like paintwork should be.....this has been one thing I have seen constant with Forza for a long time..hope they sort it out!

 

[Earth]

From what I've seen, forza looks like it's another power-sliding PGR.

I've noticed this. In most of the pictures and videos the cars seem to be sliding alot, and they break loose quite easily, and they also seem to be able to be controlled quite easily when getting sideways a bit.

And those screenshots arent going to make me me put a smilie in my text. The wheels look great. Other then that..well...I'm being completly honest here. It may sound like I'm some GT fanboy, I can be one at times, but I am honestly evaluating those pictures Front posted and, I'm not impressed. I expected more. I can see the cars use more polys and are higher resolution but it seems thee graphics are missing something...realistic lighting maybe? Anyways GT's graphics got it beat in some areas and Forza got GT beat in others, but overall, at the moment, GT4 pics that I have seen look better then Forza's pics. I guess (hope) it looks better in motion.

 

[McLaren]

btw McLaren F1GTR, what's so special about Enthusia?

What's so special is that its about the first game that even comes close, and is similiar in about every way, and equals alot of GT4s details. Enthusia is a promising game, and I know it will turn out to be GT4s closest competitor.

 

[code_kev]

Earth, what are you on about man, those piccies look really nice, I was certainly impressed by the bottom and top ones. I dunno how you can complain, it's sharp, detailed, superb reflections, and a whole host of other little details (many of which Gt4 seems to miss). It doesn't look as realistic as Gt4, but Gt4 sacrifices a lot of things to look how it does.

And lets save judgement on the handling etc of BOTH games till we playe em eh?

Maclaren, you don't know that, your guessing.

 

[McLaren]

Well, from the looks of it, it does. And it does look like a very close competitor.

 

[code_kev]

From the looks of it nothing, you have about as much idea as I have. See I think forza looks good, I don't know anything about how it will play until it's finished, just as you know even LESS about enthusia. Enthusia could be a competitor yes, I think it looks good.

 

[Dave A]

The physics are very good, if you've seen the real car test vs the ingame test it's very close to real.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Reminds me of concept sketches of how the car may look if built from concept designs.

I know what you mean. I'm amazed that the cars in Forza don't look better than that...they should! They have more polys and a better resolution. But the wheels are nice
There are some members here that draw some pretty good cars using vector graphics, and those cars in the pics have the same "feel" about them. Super crisp and clean but somewhat lacking in....hmm something, I'm not sure what

On the Gt Killa note though...that is just a tag line designed to create headlines. In the interviews with the developers, they said they were honoured to have the game compared to GT. I'm sure they are working just as hard as PD, and I do hope it is as good as they promise

 

[kinigitt]

I've noticed this. In most of the pictures and videos the cars seem to be sliding alot, and they break loose quite easily, and they also seem to be able to be controlled quite easily when getting sideways a bit.

And those screenshots arent going to make me me put a smilie in my text. The wheels look great. Other then that..well...I'm being completly honest here. It may sound like I'm some GT fanboy, I can be one at times, but I am honestly evaluating those pictures Front posted and, I'm not impressed. I expected more. I can see the cars use more polys and are higher resolution but it seems thee graphics are missing something...realistic lighting maybe? Anyways GT's graphics got it beat in some areas and Forza got GT beat in others, but overall, at the moment, GT4 pics that I have seen look better then Forza's pics. I guess (hope) it looks better in motion.

I get what you're saying, and agree with some of it (namely it doesnt look realistic). But it impresses me greatly, because if you know anything about graphics, this game gets your blood running. Real-time relfections (not faked ones a la GT3), light bloom effects, real time per-pixel shadowing (despite not looking as "real" as GT4's lighting, is a technological feat in itself, also unlike the faked ones in GT3), hi-res textures, etc. etc.

Whether it looks real is pretty irrelevant to me. Whether it looks pretty, however, does. This game is very pretty.

btw, because it looks like PGR, you think it handles like it?

 

[Front]

That enthusia video was indeed impressive but all data can be manipulated to advantage "Insert Title Here" but indeed it did look impressive, graphics wise Forza is certainly shaping up the polygon counts, are getting better and better by the looks of it, and from what i've read about programming for XBox developers tend to add the harder details (Graphics) last because it's so easy to program for.

I really expect these screens to come on leaps and bounds within the upcoming months, and I don't know why the Forza Dev team insist on showcasing the car's at Laguna Seca it's a bright barren track and is reflected in these screens they could have picked a better location when you watch the Ferrari Video you see what the Forza Team can actually do with Track Detail

People bash Forza for having 'Cartoon' graphics or 'Sketches' as people so colorfully put it, now look at the screens first thing that strikes me is oh you can actually see through the glass and can see a dash with dials and everything, and if you watch the Corvette Video you can actually see a CD player or video screen within the car it even glows blue these details GT4 cannot boast.

Forza's graphics will improve greatly when showcased in better conditions until then enjoy the hype all three games are generating because soon we will be test driving them

 

[Earth]

Earth, what are you on about man, those piccies look really nice, I was certainly impressed by the bottom and top ones. I dunno how you can complain, it's sharp, detailed, superb reflections, and a whole host of other little details (many of which Gt4 seems to miss). It doesn't look as realistic as Gt4, but Gt4 sacrifices a lot of things to look how it does.

I expected it to look alot better then it does....or could it be that Forza and GT4's graphic styles are so different, that you have to see the beauty in each one? GT4's beauty is how it looks real at certain points but you cant see that village up on the hill, but in Forza the cars look like ahigher poly count, but not as real, but you can see that village , avery detailed village on the hill. I dont know, this is confusing. Very different graphic styles.

As for Enthusia, I have these points to say about it.

- Konami is making it, and they arent well known for this, and are new to it (except for maybe a couple of small titles they released in the past that I am not aware of)

- The head developer refers to Enthusia as his 'current project' , giving the impression he was probably making fighting games last year and was given the task to make a race car game this year. Not a car guy like KY

- So far extras seem to just be weather change. Other then that, I dont see what groundbreaking features or modes it brings to the table

 

[Earth]

Whether it looks real is pretty irrelevant to me. Whether it looks pretty, however, does. This game is very pretty.

btw, because it looks like PGR, you think it handles like it?

So it is graphics style. I prefer the real look. That is why I liked GT way back when the first was released. The cars looked like pictures! I thought that was neat.

And for the PGR comment, I thought the guy said it looks like a powersliding PGR, I never played PGR, so I thought he was saying the cars powerslide alot in PGR, and it looks like it does too in Forza.

 

[kinigitt]

"- Konami is making it, and they arent well known for this, and are new to it (except for maybe a couple of small titles they released in the past that I am not aware of)

- The head developer refers to Enthusia as his 'current project' , giving the impression he was probably making fighting games last year and was given the task to make a race car game. Not a car guy like KY

- So far extras seem to just be weather change. Other then that, I dont see what groundbreaking features or modes it brings to the table"

That's just plain ignorant.

Whether a game PUBLISHER starts PUBLISHING a racing game is irrelevant.

The developer could have a had a big hand in previous racing titles, or is going to working of future racing titles. Him being the project lead on a Racing sim, I would assume he's a "car guy"

You don't know jack **** about the extras. And weather itself hasnt been officially been announced for GT4, so that's a feat in itself, since the almighty PD doesn't think the ageing ps2 hardware can handle it.

Stop assuming so much.

 

[code_kev]

No it doesn't. The game moves nothing like PGR2, I should know, I've played PGR2 for HOURS upon HOURS. It doesn't even look anything like PGR2.

I find most assumptions are negative towards forza, weird that...

Konami are good, play sparkster!

 

[Earth]

When I think of Enthusia I think of Driving Emotion Type-S...that is the reason for so much negative assumptions

 

[code_kev]

That's not exactly fair.

 

[Front]

When I think of Enthusia I think of Driving Emotion Type-S...that is the reason for so much negative assumptions

When I think of Apples I think of Pears both are fruit but neither have anything in common, what's your point earth ?

 

[Earth]

When I think of Apples I think of Pears both are fruit but neither have anything in common, what's your point earth ?

Konami reminds me of Squaresoft alot. They make a ton of RPGs, action games, fighting games. They hardly EVER make racing games. And when they try to go all out and make a big one, not some small title that gets released only in Japan, I get real nervous, because Square made Type S and boy did it stink.

There is a thing they call trust. I do not trust some developers to make sim racing games.

Would you look to lucasarts to make a great sim race game? Or to squaresoft?

I just dont trust them. And some could prove me wrong. But Type-S is pulling a dark blanket over my eyes, and my vision is clouded. If Konami pulls this one off, I will be freed of my slavery and will be able to trust again.

 

[Zer0]

What OPM wrote about GT4 is about the only thing I read which clearly says that GT4 has become a new game and way more challenging.

OPM was the first explaining a real situation example of the upgraded physics, maybe this new build it's more evident than ever I don´t know, but the updated physics are related in many more articles and people impressions since the first playable demo builds at E3 2003 to now:

"It doesn't take rocket scientist to know that the physics have been tweaked to near perfection. Even the pre-Beta build we tested at E3 started to feel worlds apart from the initial build we played at E3 2003."
Source.

KY said in many interviews that the game is constantly work in progress in all the aspects, including physics, and when GT4P was out said that his physics not are the definitive of the final build.

Before your register in this forum you follow the news about GT4? all this are old news, you thought that GT4P arcade mode would be the same as finished GT4 simulation mode in realism?, it´s the same as AI, expect a very important upgrade in the final build, both aspects now have a very important priority in the GT4.

I know the the differences of DFP vs DS2. When playing with a dual shock2 the front wheels get corrected. I can still drift a Mclaren F1 GTR. :|

Yep, I expect that in the final GT4 it can disable all the assist with a Pro handling mode or a selectable option on a DS2 or any wheel and not only with the DFP.

All the people? :| The point is that I heared that E3's forza without driving aids is more challenging than GT4. Only thing I've heared about GT4 being more challenging is the OPM article. I'm worried that GT4 won't be challenging enough. Got it? I want GT4 to be better. Can't wait to drive the nurb with a shelby cobra or ruf yellow bird. I want it to be realistic/challenging too unlike GT4p.. and then I hear opinions about forza being more challenging, I get worried ;p

Where you heard that Forza was more challenging? played with pad or wheel? more than GT4 E3 demo with DFP and without assists or don´t known? what do you mean for challenging? realistic or difficult? because playing a game without assists and a loose cheap wheel could be very challenging.

"When I tested out all the racing games, they sit you down in racing seats (Sony had Corbeau, MS had Sparcos), and you use a wheel. The Sony wheel was very realisitc. If they fix the pedals to also be realistic, you would think you were in a car. The MS wheel was cheap and light. It had no resistance so it made it nearly impossible to hold the car steady. I would need to play both with a gamepad to really decide, but as far as playablity goes, GT still holds the crown."
Source.

*Le Mans demo was the same as Nurburgring 24h, not Le Mans track in.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Oh please lay off Earth, he is only expressing an opinion

first thing that strikes me is oh you can actually see through the glass and can see a dash with dials and everything, and if you watch the Corvette Video you can actually see a CD player or video screen within the car it even glows blue these details GT4 cannot boast.

Not something a racing game would really want to boast about...a CD player and blue glowy dials, save that for the photo mode. Yes its a nice touch, but boasting about it..hmm

Heres an assumption If GT4 is released this year, I'm willing to bet Code_Kevs life that it will be the biggest selling racing game of 2004.

 

[Dave A]

That very flawed reasoning Earth. When you heared PD were making Gran Turismo back in 96 did you trust them since their biggest accomplishment was Motor toon GP? Your vision is very clouded, it's the people in the team that matter not what the team is called.

 

[kinigitt]

you have already played with the DFP?

Sure? What previews apart of this.

This:
http://www.konami.co.jp/movie/tv_special/0408/enth_2_bb.asx

*Go to 7:00

awesome video! 👍

the screens were awesome too.

 

[code_kev]

If GT4 is released this year, I'm willing to bet Code_Kevs life that it will be the biggest selling racing game of 2004.

Gt4 could be a pile of crap and it would still sell on name alone

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Gt4 could be a pile of crap and it would still sell on name alone

Exactly (seems like you'll live after all ) but its a HUGE ask, to take on a giant like GT and try and beat it on your first outing.

 

[Front]

Exactly (seems like you'll live after all ) but its a HUGE ask, to take on a giant like GT and try and beat it on your first outing.

Forza is hardly a GT Killer Forza's task right now is to create a franchise and brand identity on the XBox and hopefully steal some PS2 users in the process

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Forza is hardly a GT Killer Forza's task right now is to create a franchise and brand identity on the XBox and hopefully steal some PS2 users in the process

Indeed. It will take years for any racing game to kill GT, it won't happen overnight. The thread is GT v Forza and this round will no doubt go to GT, as Code_Kev says even if GT4 is ****e it will still sell bucketloads on reputation alone. (imagine the pre-orders from last year, there must be millions ) Forza 1 will get everyone talking, and should raise the bar. Forza 2 (if Forza sells well) might steal away some hardcore GT fans...who knows.

All I know is competition is good, you can bet PD have scouts checking on all racing games and if damage etc is what people want, expect to see it in GT5.

 

[kinigitt]

Sales mean squat. Grand theft auto vice city is the "gt killer" if that's your line of reasoning.

The only Gt killer as far as I'm concerned is a game that manages to raise the bar on quality and innovation.

 

[_aj]

That very flawed reasoning Earth. When you heared PD were making Gran Turismo back in 96 did you trust them since their biggest accomplishment was Motor toon GP? Your vision is very clouded, it's the people in the team that matter not what the team is called.

Exactly, the team is what produces and develops the game, the publisher just makes it available to the world and stamps their badge on it. And if this is still your way of thinking what Racing Sim have MS developed recently to show their competence in this area? As with almost every job, it's the people you work with, the team that produce the goods.