GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

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Yep, it's a picof the real car pasted onto that background and made to look like it was actually there but t's not the best job I've seen. The car is real and the environment is real they just wern't taken together.
 
We arn't, we are comparing the shot of the Tuscan R in Forza to a shot of a real Turcan R. The Tuscan R and the Speed 12 are the only two TVR's confirmed in Forza so far, it's a Turscan R not a 400R and yes they are different.
 
I thought the Forza pic was a T400R

[
TVR%20T400R.jpg


T400 R ---- Forza


TVR%20Tuscan%20(Orange)%201.jpg



Tuscan ---- Random Photo


Tuscan_R2.jpg
Tuscan_R.jpg



Tuscan R ---- Random Photo


920720_20040809_screen002.jpg



Forza --- Tuscan R
 
Nope, Forza's is a Tuscan R. You don't know your TVR's do you? They look almost identical granted check here http://www.fast-autos.net/tvr/tvrtuscanr.html and you'll probably think your seenig pics of that T400R you posted. Basically TVR WAS going to build the Tuscan R as the top spec performance Tuscan, instead they ended up building the less powerful T400R and T440R which was also less powerful and then the Typhon which was significantly more powerful with 580Bhp. The Tuscan R produces 450Bhp to the 400's 400 and the 440's 440Bhb and it has a few other differences but the body is pretty much the same between them, and the random Tuscan is a Tuscan Speed six.
 
I like that wild side, each to his/her own but IMO TVR's are the best performance cars in the world.
 
Well TVR just switched owners...to a Russian one :indiff: . So if they decide, TVR might come to America after all... I hope so for you guys, you are missing out on something..
 
BTW that photo you posted of the Tuscan R is not the Tuscan R that was pened in for release, that was an earlier concept of it.
 
live4speed
BTW that photo you posted of the Tuscan R is not the Tuscan R that was pened in for release, that was an earlier concept of it.

someone knows way tooo much about TVR's :dopey:

I'll change the Image promptly !

I also found another view of the Tuscan R that you thought was cut and pasted into the scene :) might wanna amend that hehe 💡

The Green TVR Tuscan R images are From the official 2000 TVR CD-rom

"the following pictures are taken which show the newest Tuscan R model, that is finally put on the streets at the end of 2002."

Tuscan_R.jpg
Tuscan_R2.jpg
 
The second picture could also easily be copy and pasted, and because it's a side view it's less noticable

you could be right but doe's it really matter :)

TVR's must be a ***** to model with all those curves lol
 
No that's because they're all made of glass fibre. They fill up a mold, wait till the glassfibre hardens, and then apply some finishing touches.
 
Dev_Zero
Ah I assumed that you ment IRL. Because modelling a curve is just as easy as moddeling a straight surface digitally..

umm.. explain?

Straight lines don't have varying degrees, they are always 360 degrees, hence making a straight line look like a straight line has the be the simplest of tasks when modelling a car.

The curves require the modeller to choose where he wants most of the polygons to be more concentrated (creating better curves without as many jagged edges, not to be confused with jaggies, which are a result of lack of anti-aliasing.) Don't forget that the more polygons in the model, the more processing power it takes to draw each frame, so even with xbox's hardware, the modellers still have to "economise" in certain parts to save power for more intensive parts of the car, like scoops, door crevices, converging curves and details like mirrors and wheels.

Wheel arches that look like they were badly cut with a band saw are a result of lower polygon models. It's up to the developers to figure out how to hide the edges best, and PD are great at that.
 
I've been doing alot of reading about the Pokemon element for Forza, it really does sound quite interesting , here's what happens..

You pick a region Asia (inc Aussies), America, Europe (I imagine) and from picking that region you are limited to the car's avalible to that region, now the only way to get the car's from other regions is to trade with people online...

This brings a structured online practice outwith the actual racing which add's a nice touch to the actual game, for example you picked europe and you really wanted a GT40 your going to have to pay quite an ammount to get it imported to europe and you will have to contact those annoying Yanks :)

It also means that each region will have it's own true to life racing style Yanks (Super Charged V8's)

I personally think this add's a nice touch of realism to the game and racing styles will be broken down until there are well formed communities within the online world of Forza.

imagine how hard it will be to get the Ferrari's, NSX, GT40 if your in another region just like real life, it will be class :)

#edit
It would be nice to see this mode in GT4 because well GT4 has 500 cars :)
 
Information from Team xbox

Suspension

A good place to start when trying to hammer out the feel of a certain car model is to gain an understanding of how its suspension works. There are few car manufacturers with a better grasp on suspension and handling than Ferrari, so it was natural for Forza’s dev team to consult with the makers of those perfect red cars on what is truly important. The first area of importance, and that was touched on in part one, is the physical way in which the suspension mounts to the hub, and ultimately the tire. Certain layouts will allow more camber when torqued into a turn, and some will also gain caster in similar situations. Forza’s team individually modeled each car’s suspension type so that gamers would actually be able to experience the correct feel of the model, even slight changes in alignment depending on how the wheel is situated.

Tires

The other area which inspired our title to the physics and handling segment of Seat Time part 2 is how the physics between tire and pavement have been handled. People always wonder what the single most important aspect of car handling is. Forza’s response to this question is that, without a doubt, it’s the tire, since it is the only part of the car actually in contact with the road. The team spent over a month on the tire model alone, then another two months to tune said model into something they were happy with. Teaming up with Toyo allowed the team access to some very inside information on how cars react with changes in shoes. Forza has been built around the tire model, and what will separate it from the competition. Knowing that tires on high speed autos rely on non-Newtonian physics, this was an immensely difficult but extremely important area to focus upon. Simply put, the more load put on the tire, the more friction that that it will create on the asphalt, but not in a linear fashion. What that means in normalspeak is that, since the tire model is so accurate in Forza, the team didn’t have to dial in the handling characteristics of the cars as much. For instance, the NSX, with its rear weight bias, naturally oversteered when thrown into a corner with Forza tire model applied to its layout. What this means for the gamer is the absolute closest thing to the organic feel of a bunch of cars that most of us will never even be able to sit in, let alone drive. Yes, tire heat and wear have also been considered. Tire pressures will rise with heat individually, which will raise pressure, and thereby change tire friction. This will affect wear and can also cause the handling to be thrown off. Gamers with a clue will know that warming up the tires before a race is a very good idea in Forza.

Skidmarks

Tire marks are left and will stay for the remainder of the race, which is a huge deal since a car will grip rubber much more aggressively when in contact with additional rubber. Dropped oil from a wreck stays as well and will wreak havoc for the remainder of the race since it will be carried about the track

Now how realistic is that....

I'm not bashing the gran turismo series but if I was PD i'd be slightly worried that Microsoft will steal there crown of best Racing sim on console I have no doubt GT4 will be a great game, will it be the greatest racing game from this generation of consoles has yet to be seen...

Forza has so many things going for it right now

Drivetar [AI that learns]
Exotics [Ferrari, Porsche etc...]
Graphics [High Res]
Online [XBox Live]
Pokemon [Cars Limited per Region]
Vehicles on screen [15 compared to 6]
Physics [That have been quoted by many as amazing and unforgiving]
Things GT4 will missed out on [Graphicial Touches Skidmarks, Reverse Lights etc...]
 
Well in my opinion Team Xbox isn't the place for a independend view for a game like Forza, it's the same for GT 4 if you look on a sony site. So it's a nice article but I prefer to see it with my own eyes before I judge either Forza or GT4...
 
Pak
Wow, sounds amazing. The drivatar, exotics, graphics or the online mode don't really attract me, but those physics and dynamic track blabla are great.

I'm loving the whole dynamic tracks thing I don't think it's EVER been done in a simulation, PC or console

Skidmarks

Tire marks are left and will stay for the remainder of the race, which is a huge deal since a car will grip rubber much more aggressively when in contact with additional rubber. Dropped oil from a wreck stays as well and will wreak havoc for the remainder of the race since it will be carried about the track

Skidmarks = Grip for Cars
Oil = No Grip for Cars

Now that is extermly impressive, also the fact they have hooked up with the following companies :-

TOYO for realistic tyres
Ferrari for realtistic suspesnsion

Both games are gonna be awsome but for realism I don't see how Gran Turismo can win this one, correct me if i'm wrong :)
 
Anybody know of any sites that specialise in sim racer reviews?

I have black hole motorsports on my favourites list, but they only do PC stuff. :grumpy:

I'd have to see what some hardcore sim-freaks have to say before I believe a preview from an xbox fan site.

I'm not doubting it or anything, but considering the source of the article, it's gonna be tough to use it in any arguments with crazy mob-mentality GT fanboys, if you know what I mean.
 
GT can and will win on this one, sure PD don't go paying people from Ferrari to test the suspension in the game is accurate, PD use real race drivers to test it and all the drivers they've used agree on how accurate it is. Tyre's wise yes GT has been very poor so far, we should be able to change things like tyre pressure and also have more different types of tyre's like low profile and differnt types of off road tyres too, but ew currenty don't kno whatr that aspect of GT4 will be like. Forza includes two major things that I really wish GT will eventualy have thoes are damage and the ability to transplant parts from other cars into yuour own including engines but only withing reason, you can't put a Viper V10 into a Civic ect. However the whole GT4 experience IMO will be better than the whole Forza experience although I'm not writing Forza off, I just don't think it will be until Forza 2 or 3 before GT will risk being overtaken in terms of the game as a whole.
 
live4speed
GT can and will win on this one, sure PD don't go paying people from Ferrari to test the suspension in the game is accurate, PD use real race drivers to test it and all the drivers they've used agree on how accurate it is. Tyre's wise yes GT has been very poor so far, we should be able to change things like tyre pressure and also have more different types of tyre's like low profile and differnt types of off road tyres too, but ew currenty don't kno whatr that aspect of GT4 will be like. Forza includes two major things that I really wish GT will eventualy have thoes are damage and the ability to transplant parts from other cars into yuour own including engines but only withing reason, you can't put a Viper V10 into a Civic ect. However the whole GT4 experience IMO will be better than the whole Forza experience although I'm not writing Forza off, I just don't think it will be until Forza 2 or 3 before GT will risk being overtaken in terms of the game as a whole.

my sentiments exactly. 👍
 
I agree Live. but not every one is going to care for all those features and it wont make me (Already got one though)go out and by an Xbox for them. GT4 has a better driving aspect(low powered and everyday cars, a 900 degree FF wheel that tops all those Forza features IMO. I played GT3 with a wheel for the first time a month ago and I cant imagine going back to the joypad :). Because the point of these 2 games is driving(I think Forza has a driving aspect and not just racing) and only one has a 900 degree Force feedback wheel, GT4 will be the better game regaurdless of a car list and online features. Fact is there are less people playing PGR2 now(XBLive) and the single player side is too linear and bland to keep playing it. GT3 has no online play i still play it without the need to beat it (67% after 3 years). I even play GT2 still.

And oh yeah, drifting with wheel is pure heaven :).

A 900 degree FF wheel "imo" tops all those features. If it comes down to a comparision. not that forza will suck it could be great just not as good.
 
LaBounti
I agree Live. but not every one is going to care for all those features and it wont make me (Already got one though)go out and by an Xbox for them. GT4 has a better driving aspect(low powered and everyday cars, a 900 degree FF wheel that tops all those Forza features IMO. I played GT3 with a wheel for the first time a month ago and I cant imagine going back to the joypad :). Because the point of these 2 games is driving(I think Forza has a driving aspect and not just racing) and only one has a 900 degree Force feedback wheel, GT4 will be the better game regaurdless of a car list and online features. Fact is there are less people playing PGR2 now(XBLive) and the single player side is too linear and bland to keep playing it. GT3 has no online play i still play it without the need to beat it (67% after 3 years). I even play GT2 still.

And oh yeah, drifting with wheel is pure heaven :).

A 900 degree FF wheel "imo" tops all those features. If it comes down to a comparision. not that forza will suck it could be great just not as good.

While I totally agree with you i'd like to point out, Microsoft's position on a Force Feedback Wheel has never been fully established people say XBox don't support Force Feedback and others say it Can, although if Microsoft fail to bring out a force feedback it will kind of defeat the whole point of creating a realistic racing sim...
i'd personally find it strange that they don't bring out a wheel of there own since they do develop Force Feedback wheels on the PC, rather good ones at that !

Live4Speed
PD use real race drivers to test it and all the drivers they've used agree on how accurate it is

I've read that Microsoft is also using real drivers to collect data and even a few members of the development team used to be or are pro race drivers, when I find the link again i'll gladly post it.

Microsoft has obviously spent alot of Money on the Forza titles the ferrari and Porsche Licence from EA must have cost a fair ammount it's also entirely possible Microsoft bought every exlusive licence EA had..

Lamborghini
Ferrari
Porsche
McLaren

And no doubt i've missed a few :)

Both games are great Gran Turismo is doing what it doe's best is graphics, and Forza is trying to find it's feet with truely unique and interesting features.

I for one am supporting the underdog, he won't win but he'll certainly die trying and may even give Gran Turismo a welcome run for it's money :)
 
The better Forza is the better Forza 2 should be, and the better the Forza series is the more KY will push PD to make sure GT is the better of the two series so even if your a solid I won't buy any other racer than GT and I've managed to brainwash myself super dope you should still hope that other games get better to ensure GT continues progressing at a decent rate.
 

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