GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

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Dynamic weather in Gran Turismo simpily would not work for a couple of reasons

[A] PD Can't perfect the weather "physics" therefore cannot be included until the PS6

Gran Turismo players complain about the lack of emotion in rain

:dopey:

It would be cool I know GTR is including dynmic weather for there 24 hour events should be fun after a few laps sudden downpour :)
 
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Dynamic weather in Gran Turismo simpily would not work for a couple of reasons

[A] PD Can't perfect the weather "physics" therefore cannot be included until the PS6

Gran Turismo players complain about the lack of emotion in rain

:dopey:

It would be cool I know GTR is including dynmic weather for there 24 hour events should be fun after a few laps sudden downpour :)


that was funny, but you're treading thin ice man.

:)
 
I ****n hate Forza having ferrari and porsche, and most of all, they have the classics, and the racing cars of them...................

Classic Sports Car Roster

* 1966 Ford GT40 MK II
* 1967 Ferrari 330 P4
* 1967 AC 427 MKIII
* 1964 Ferrari 250 GTO
* 1969 Ferrari 246 Dino GT
* 1974 Lancia Stratos HF Stradale
* 1961 Jaguar S1 E-type 3.8
* 1967 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 427 L-88
* 1972 Lotus Elan Sprint
* 1954 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing Coupe
* 1972 Datsun 240ZX
* 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS
* 1955 Porsche 550 Spyder (James Dean Edition)
* 1969 Toyota 2000gt

And look at this ones, would GT4 have more aftermarket tuner cars????????

Aftermarket Tuner Roster

* 1995 Tom's Tom's T020 (MR2)
* 1995 VIS Racing MR2 Turbo T-bar (Widebody)
* 1995 Border MR2 Turbo T-bar (Widebody)
* 2002 Tom's Tom's W123 (Toyota MR-S)
* 2000 Aerogear Integra R (Widebody)
* 2000 VIS Racing Integra R (Widebody)
* 2004 Wings West Civic R J Spec (Widebody)
* 2002 Mugen Mugen Integra Type R (Japan)
* 2003 APR Performance Celica GTS (Widebody)
* 2004 Mugen Mugen Civic Type R Hatch
* 2002 Guldstrand Corvette Guldstrand Edition
* 2000 Saleen Saleen S281 (Based on the Mustang)
* 2003 Mugen Mugen NSX
* 2003 Mugen Mugen S2000 (Hardtop)
* 1995 INGS RX-7 (Widebody)
* 1995 AB Flug RX-7 (Widebody)
* 2002 Tommy Kaira Tommy Kaira 2002 R34
* 2002 Mine's Mine's GT-R (R34)
* 1995 Mine's Mine's Skyline R32 GT-R
* 1998 Tommy Kaira Tommy Kaira Impreza M20b 2002
* 1995 Mine's Mine's CP9A Lancer Evolution VI RS
* 2004 Sparco Sparco Lancer Evo
* 2002 Tom's Z382 (SC430)
* 2000 Hennessey Hennessey Viper 800TT
* 2002 Lingenfelter Lingenfelter 427 CID Twin Turbo Corvette
* 1998 AB Flug Supra Turbo S900 (Widebody)
* 1998 VeilSide Supra Turbo 99 (Widebody)
* 1998 VeilSide Supra Turbo 03 (Widebody)
 
It would be intersting if you put Forza's carlist and GT4's carlist side by side which one would the "true" car enthusist choose.

I'm willing to bet it would be Forza's :)


QUALITY OVER QUANTITY :dunce:
 
You don't know much about Forza, you played GT4, played Nurburgring, know that GT4's new physics engine is damn good (not GTR but good) yet you just assume Forza is better cause Microsoft says it has damage? How gullible can you be? I can only judge what I know, I played and love GT4 so I can speak on its behalf...have you guys played Forza? I have to admit the pics are mighty nice for Forza but the vids....even if they were old (they were posted this month though on IGN) it does not look like it plays any good. I just seen the vids for GTR and I can tell just by the vids the physics engine is superb...compare w/ Forza and tell me what you think.
 
dunkee
You don't know much about Forza, you played GT4, played Nurburgring, know that GT4 new physics engine is damn good (not GTR but good) yet you just assume Forza is better cause Microsoft says it has damage? How gullible can you be? I can only judge what I know, I played and love GT4 so I can speak on its behalf...have you guys played Forza? I have to admit the pics are mighty nice for Forza but the vids....even if they were old (they were posted this month though on IGN) it does not look like it plays any good. I just seen the vids for GTR and I can tell just buy the vids the physics engine is superb...compare w/ Forza and tell me what you think.

I don't know who this post is directed at but i'll respond anyway..

dunkee
yet you just assume Forza is better cause Microsoft says it has damage? How gullible can you be?

I'm not assuming Forza is better because of the damage but it is a huge step forward for simulation racers on consoles, now PD's attitude show's me how arrogant they actually are since the PS2 is not up to delivering the level of accuracy PD demand in damage "physics" then we will not even attempt it. they must think highly of themselves if thye think they can perfect damage "physics" in one go on a future console.

dunkee
I just seen the vids for GTR and I can tell just buy the vids the physics engine is superb...compare w/ Forza and tell me what you think

Please try watching a video of GTR in arcade mode and see how un realistic it is same applies to Forza, it's a magical setting called ARCADE ! :dunce:
 
Front
I don't know who this post is directed at but i'll respond anyway..



I'm not assuming Forza is better because of the damage but it is a huge step forward for simulation racers on consoles, now PD's attitude show's me how arrogant they actually are since the PS2 is not up to delivering the level of accuracy PD demand in damage "physics" then we will not even attempt it. they must think highly of themselves if thye think they can perfect damage "physics" in one go on a future console.



Please try watching a video of GTR in arcade mode and see how un realistic it is same applies to Forza, it's a magical setting called ARCADE ! :dunce:

You must be really young...that would explain a lot. I did not know the physics engine changed while you were in arcade. In GT4 it doesn't...the only dif is TCS & ASM. I'm guessing GTR is the same. So have you played Forza? Has anyone else here who actually likes it?
 
dunkee
You must be really young...that would explain a lot. I did not know the physics engine changed while you were in arcade. In GT4 it doesn't...the only dif is TCS & ASM. I'm guessing GTR is the same. So have you played Forza? Has anyone else here who actually likes it?

I never said the physics change, I merely said that it is Arcade mode which would mean all the assists on :dunce:

But regardless, if you watch GTR with all the assists on

Anti Lock Brakes | High
Wheelspin Reduction | High

it doe's look unrealistic in the replays, I was just saying those Forza video's that are MONTHS old more than likely have all the assists on !

💡
 
Front
I never said the physics change, I merely said that it is Arcade mode which would mean all the assists on :dunce:

But regardless, if you watch GTR with all the assists on

Anti Lock Brakes | High
Wheelspin Reduction | High

it doe's look unrealistic in the replays, I was just saying those Forza video's that are MONTHS old more than likely have all the assists on !

💡

They reasons why GTR & GT4 look real (to me) are because of the way the cars shift their weight, the way the springs and shocks move, the way the cars react under braking & accelerating not because they spin out. You can spin out in almost any racing game. Also in Forza when a car hits something it reacts unrealistically. It may have damage but still the collision looks unrealistic, sparks come out when there not supposed to, when you're rear ended it just looks weird. I would seriously like a biased opinion from someone who has actually played the game :dunce:
 
Yeah, the game's animation isn't so hot from the vids I've seen, but good animation doesnt have that much to do with a good physics engine (a physics engine in a racing game is for FEEL, not looks). LFS doesnt look realistic, but damn does it feel it.

P.S.

GTR doesnt look all that spectacular in replays either buddy.

edit: wrong box.
 
kinigitt
good animation doesnt have that much to do with a good physics engine. LFS doesnt look realistic, but damn does it feel it.

That is just my perception from the vids. I haven't played Forza or GTR so I can't give my opinion on the way the physics engine feels w/ input. All I can judge is the animation from the cars when in motion which GTR & GT4 have proven to be quite nice. I haven't seen LFS but I have heard it has a great physics engine. It would prob look better if the cars had more animation along w/ the physics.

BTW, I haven't seen the replays in either Forza or GTR. All vids were in car or out while playing. And I agree physics is how a car feels in a turn, braking and accelerating but like I said I haven't played Forza & GTR so I can't comment. I haven't read a bad complaint about GTR's physics and it doesn't seem like any die-hard sim fans here have played Forza either so why the hype?
 
yeah I know exactly what you mean.

realism isn't just in the look of a game however, though it helps.

it already looks good enough to purchase due to the car list and options alone, but I never really considered this game better than GT. Yet.
 
kinigitt
yeah I know exactly what you mean.

realism isn't just in the look of a game however, though it helps.

it already looks good enough to purchase due to the car list and options alone, but I never really considered this game better than GT. Yet.

I agree. I love cars and play every racing game out. I will prob play the $hit out of Forza but I don't understand why ppl think it will be better the GT4 when they haven't even played it?
 
Some people are just fed up with the same old thing from Gran Turismo, that's why they get excited when they hear about a shiny new thing like Forza. Who can blame them? Until we get our hands on GT4, a lot of us are wary about KY's big talk. After all, we got a lot of that prior to GT3's release.

Personally, I think they'll deliver the goods this time.
 
kinigitt
Some people are just fed up with the same old thing from Gran Turismo, that's why they get excited when they hear about a shiny new thing like Forza. Who can blame them? Until we get our hands on GT4, a lot of us are wary about KY's big talk. After all, we got a lot of that prior to GT3's release.

Personally, I think they'll deliver the goods this time.

I always liked GT...only thing I didn't like was AI (which they better fix). Forza had me wanting to buy an XBox for a second but then I saw the vids...now I'll just play on my friends XBox.
 
back onto the whole cars list thing, I think they should definitely consider making a deal with SCC to test and feature some of their project cars.

Especially their SRT-4
 
Hey, just check this new batch of pictures from Forza:
Forza Motorsport new screenshots at IGN

forza-motorsport-20040915041736570.jpg


Those graphics seem improved...
 
Interview - Forza Motorsport Interview [Source]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all, what is your position at Microsoft Game Studios?

I’m Dan Greenwalt, the lead designer for Forza Motorsport.


What does the team creating Forza Motorsport want to accomplish with this game?

With Forza Motorsport, we want to create the most realistic racing sim available for Xbox. We are aiming to bring some new and innovative gameplay to the racing sim genre. Forza’s going to introduce new features to this space, including a powerful damage engine and customization options that you typically don’t see in racing sims.

How long has the team been working on this title? And how many people are involved?

Any game is only as good as the people who built it, and we made sure to hire all-stars every step of the way. We hired from across the industry, including EA, DICE, Boss Games, Nintendo, Crystal Dynamics, and Neversoft. We also hired great newcomers from other areas of Microsoft, including our computer opponent programmer. He’s a PhD Learning AI researcher from the Microsoft Research group. Our Audio developer is from the Xbox ATG (Advanced Technology Group) team. Our networking guru was instrumental in building Direct Play for Windows. We’ve got huge car fans, two guys who race motorcycles, a guy who races his Mini in rally and auto-cross events and a guy who left the Star Mazda open-wheel racing series to come help build this game. This is a group of very passionate and very experienced people. The team is well over a hundred people. We’ve been developing Forza Motorsport internally for over two years now.

What will the career mode entail? For example are there different types of racing we'll take part in or will it simply be different car classes?

Forza’s career mode is structured more like a playground featuring lots of event types serving as apparatus to play on. Money is the structure that holds this playground together. You’ll be able to select from a good mix of cars to start with. By “good”, I mean that players won’t be stuck with econo-boxes as they launch their careers. As you go through the career mode, you’ll earn money to trick-out your current car, or spend it on buying something extraordinary and rare, like high end Ferrari’s and Porsches or even the Audi R8.

Of course, you’ll earn money by winning races. However, you’ll also be rewarded for challenging yourself. By turning off assists such as automatic transmission, limited damage and traction control, the game gets tougher. At the same time the monetary rewards become greater. Thus advanced players will find plenty of challenge to keep them busy, while casual gamers can still earn cash, progress through the game and enjoy racing.

We want to make sure Forza is enjoyable to even those gamers who might not have hours to invest in building a career, so we’re starting online and arcade gamers off with the vast majority of the cars already unlocked – including our high end race cars.


What do you think about the Xbox gaming community calling Forza the “Gran Turismo Killer”? Is that an accurate translation on what the Forza team is trying to do here? Outshine the GT franchise?

We get asked that pretty frequently, and honestly, we don’t like to consider Forza a “GT killer.” We have tremendous respect for Yamauchi-san and his team, and the original Gran Turismo is why some of us got into developing games. While Forza’s in the same genre as Gran Turismo, it offers a lot of new gameplay vs. GT. For example, we have a vehicle damage system and car customization features, neither of which is currently available in GT games. We think these features will really help us push the genre forward, as gamers will be tweaking, tuning and customizing their cars in ways they never have before. And our damage engine is going to ensure that racers don’t use other players as “brakes” or track walls as “rails” during a race.

When it comes down to it, we’re very honored to be compared to Gran Turismo, but we’re also going to be offering a very different gameplay experience.

We know the Subaru WRC is going to be included in the game. Will rally racing be an option or will we be racing this car on the asphalt?

Forza Motorsport will not feature the Subaru WRC (World Rally Championship). We have included the Subaru WRX STi, the 22B, the Cusco JGTC WRX as well as several aftermarket tuner WRX’s,

We looked into including Rally tracks and events a couple of years ago. However, Forza Motorsport is first and foremost a track based racing simulator. We wanted to spend the majority of our time delivering the best wheel-to-wheel racing simulation available. We’ve included some surprise event types that go beyond standard wheel-to-wheel action, but to answer your question, there won’t be any rally.

What is your favorite car in the game so far?

There are so many cars in the game, and so many ways to customize them, it’s tough to pick just one. I drive a Stage 2 tuned 2000 Audi S4 to work every day. Because of this, I guess my ultimate car in the game would have to be a Audi S4 bi-turbo, tuned to make 500 plus horsepower and sporting racing slicks. I’d also change out the rims, hood and add a “touring car” style rear wing. Finally, I’d give it just the right paint scheme complete with decals to it to make it really look like a race car. At that point, it would be “mine.”

Will gamers be able to customize any car? If so, in what ways?

Customization is one of the key elements of Forza, so you’ll be able to change the look, feel and driving characteristics of every production car in the game. We have well over 200 cars in Forza. Our production cars range from hot sport compact cars like the Dodge SRT4 or Acura RSX to exotic supercars like the Mercedes SLR or Porsche Carrera GT. We even have classics like the 69 Chevy Camaro SS and Pontiac GTO.

We have an extremely powerful paint job editor. This editor allows you to place decals and vinyl primitives all over the car. You’re not limited to specific shapes and locations – go ahead and freestyle.

As I mentioned before, first and foremost, we are a simulator. Therefore, all upgrades in the game have a performance characteristic. For example, while a player might swap out a few aftermarket parts purely for cosmetic purposes, it will also have an effect on the car’s weight and aero. Other upgrades, like engines and rear wings, will make a huge difference in gameplay.
We’ve got a mountain of customization options – you can change bumpers, scoops, side skirts, paint schemes, decals and of course the engines. And that’s just for starters. Since every gamer is different, we felt we should offer enough customization options to ensure every gamer’s car is different. In Forza Motorsport, you are what you race.

Onto the technical side: What can you tell me about the graphics engine that is being used with this game? How is it pushing Xbox to the next level?

We’ve put a lot of time into Forza Motorsport’s graphics engine. Especially in the details of the tracks and the cars. We’ve painstakingly photographed each and every car and track in the game, and we’ve even built scale models of some of the cars to use as a reference. All the details, right down to the depth of the wheel-wells are in there.

Tracks are detailed right down to the skid marks that were present on the track the week we captured them. On top of that, we also maintain the skid marks you left three laps ago. And if you bump your car against a wall, you’ll be leaving a paint trail in your wake.

How about the sound engine that game will use? How is it utilizing Xbox’s powerful audio processor?

Forza is a sim, and as such, we want to make absolutely sure every aspect reflects reality. So, we aren’t skimping on the sound. When you’re racing in Forza, you’ll really hear your 5.1 audio system come to life, as each tire is tied to a speaker, giving you instant feedback as to who’s slipping and who’s gripping the pavement. Our sound engine is going to let you know when you’ve managed to bite into a turn, or when you’re about to lose it. And of course, you’ll hear those other drivers coming up on your tail.

On the multiplayer side: How many people will be able to compete on the same Xbox at once?

Forza will support two player split-screen and tons of multiplayer modes and options.

What features from Xbox Live 3.0 will this game be supporting?

Xbox Live is obviously a big deal for Forza Motorsport, and right now we’re fleshing out all the details on gameplay modes, Live features and the number of players who will race in a round. Stay tuned for more info later.

When will Forza Motorsport ship for Xbox?

Forza Motorsport is expected to ship in Winter of 2005. And when it does, it should really change how gamers think of racing sims.

Talk Xbox would like to thank Dan Greenwalt for answering our questions about Forza Motorsport. It's gonna be a great game!
 
kinigitt
Yeah, the game's animation isn't so hot from the vids I've seen, but good animation doesnt have that much to do with a good physics engine (a physics engine in a racing game is for FEEL, not looks). LFS doesnt look realistic, but damn does it feel it.

P.S.

GTR doesnt look all that spectacular in replays either buddy.

edit: wrong box.




I agree, i havent played a racing game that felt as real as LFS. Man... Racing hard is really fun. The way you can feel the weight shifting in the car and everything is amazing. Its probably the most rewarding game to drift in. I hope gt4 is even more rewarding... I wanna feel proud of myself for taking the perfect line and speed through a corner like i do in LFS, or pulling off a "perfect" drift.



Jeez... forza isnt gonna be out till winter 2005??!?!?!
 
Yep, that kind of prevents it from going head to head with GT4, comparisons will be made but there shouldn't be, I think by then I will have an X-box readied up with live for Forza.
 
One huge problem for Forza is lack of support for FF and a good wheel. And Microsoft hasn't plans for an official wheel or something...
 
Samelborp
One huge problem for Forza is lack of support for FF and a good wheel. And Microsoft hasn't plans for an official wheel or something...


yep that is true, what is the use of having realistic phyisics if you can't use a wheel, a game pad doesn't do it justice.
 
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