GT5 AI superbad ?

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You care about that to that depth of detail? maybe Kaz does not want us to know as it is too complicated for non specialist comprehension.



But the point is that you didn't make it... :rolleyes:

Actually I did make it and the user I made the post to even claimed I made the same point. But hey if you want to troll that's all you. Perhaps you should learn to read

What racing series are you watcing? If it is a certain open wheel series then okay you have a slight point. However, that isn't the model one should run any simulation by unless it were a sim for that very league.

Also mr_serious didn't seem to be implying that you get rammed repeatedly. Actually to be honest I myself have never had that happen to me on GT5, if anything the AI move out of the way and slow down just so they don't ram you or make any sort of contact.

No I was saying despite all the problems GT AI has, being repeatedly hit by them is not one I have experienced or seen in any videos.

If anything I think they are far too tame. They don't react as if they are trying to win a race at all.

^ Exactly the point I was trying to make.

👍 I should have read your posts before replying to his!

Ulitmately we need options for the AI from easy win mode to hardcore aggressive reality mode.

Unfortunately the hardcore mob who might be willing to suffer being banged about a bit by the AI at times (as long as they are fast & competitive) are probably a minority and PD makes more sales by concentrating on the graphics rather than realistic racing - which makes me sad.

Read much??? From your post above it doesn't look like you do.

 

[ItsHim]

My two gripes with the AI is that there's apparently no custom setting for AI aggressiveness in A Spec as there is for Arcade mode. The latter is quite decent on a setting of 9 to 10 if and when the player is prepared to ditch the RS tyres and himself drives reasonably. That includes not dive bombing the AI or abusing them as brake obstacles.

The second one is that by chance, good races can be had in the higher ranking a spec races. But more often than not a strong AI gets a weak car.

Anyway, the Arcade AI on high aggressiveness is quite decent for most of the time.

I just wonder how many complaints there would be if the AI drove like your average online douchebag. Quite a lot I'd imagine.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

But clearly it is not fine according to your semantical illiteracy my son . I WAS referring to the IMMEDIATE post that did not include "the point" you were trying to make if you weren't aware. But NOW i have moved on.

You've only moved on because I've shown you why you were wrong to begin with. Also why would you make and/or pass judgment on a single post that works in unison with several post prior to it? That just baffles me at how naive that would be, but it is the internet so it isn't that surprising.

Another bit of info I'm not your son, for future insight that is.

Back to the topic at hand. I agree with many others and this has been asked several times of different important aspects of a racing sim. Options are key!

 

[thesuperfunk]

It's a shame that they never included the extra 'hidden' difficulty option of the GT3 arcade mode or some similar 'slider' in the race options ... Apart from braking too early and not carrying enough apex speed, the other gripe I've noticed with the AI is usually when you've passed someone in a corner, they seem suddenly to drop right off the pace, briefly, not only allowing you to build a healthy advantage but also disrupting the race behind.

 

[Morgoth_666]

My two gripes with the AI is that there's apparently no custom setting for AI aggressiveness in A Spec as there is for Arcade mode. The latter is quite decent on a setting of 9 to 10 if and when the player is prepared to ditch the RS tyres and himself drives reasonably. That includes not dive bombing the AI or abusing them as brake obstacles.

I recently suggested changing exactly that - search "AI aggression" in the Feedback page. Apparently no one else ever did, and still no one deems it worthy of a vote yet. I'd post the direct link but it's too long for PS3.


Unrelated -- I'd sure like to get ahold of one of the GT5 copies with AIs that don't ram me repeatedly and predictably when I'm racing beside them quite respectfully and giving them all or more than they need -- even 90%+ -- of the road to drive on. If you get in front they'll still often try to spin you until you get a little lead. Then they vanish.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I beg your pardon? ... I was not informing you about the medium we are using but rather on how it has affected your ability to convey initial meaning plus i do not think that i high AI threshold is fundamental to users despite what others might feel is right as it is clear that the career mode is not the focal point alas online mode.

If online is so big then why were they many threads prior to this one on the same subject? If online is the focal point then you must have a graph or some kind of key evidence to varify this?

It seems there is a good group of people who use the arcade and GT life gameplay, many of which do so because the racing online wise isn't what one would call a simulator for the most part or simcade for that matter. Unless you do a league on here or another website.

Also I conveyed the initial meaning, the issue I had is you were wrong and it was proven. Gallivanting about and casting stones at the most miniscule parts to detract from threads isn't going to get you far on this forum. Like I said I'm past that, and if you want to continue about that then you can pm me.

 

[sesselpupser]

Superbad? No. Ultrabad? Maybe. Megabad? Yes. That's a million bad. Every time I get close enough to pass an AI, even if I'm overspeeding into a turn or drifting past them or doing something else that any human player could easily counter and hold their position, and hear them not only back off the throttle but pretty much turn the engine off immediately, I can't help but be disappointed. The AI has always been bad in GT, and the series goes back quite a long way. You would've thought it would be acceptable by now, but the AI has gone from stupid and inconsiderate to Luca Badoer.

 

[ch3ng]

Superbad? No. Ultrabad? Maybe. Megabad? Yes. That's a million bad. Every time I get close enough to pass an AI, even if I'm overspeeding into a turn or drifting past them or doing something else that any human player could easily counter and hold their position, and hear them not only back off the throttle but pretty much turn the engine off immediately, I can't help but be disappointed. The AI has always been bad in GT, and the series goes back quite a long way. You would've thought it would be acceptable by now, but the AI has gone from stupid and inconsiderate to Luca Badoer.

Totally agree. Nice Post. After 5 Full GT ans Several other Games like Prologe....

I have to say they HAVE to deliver a better AI.

 

[RedBaron]

superbad? No. Ultrabad? Maybe. Megabad? Yes. That's a million bad. Every time i get close enough to pass an ai, even if i'm overspeeding into a turn or drifting past them or doing something else that any human player could easily counter and hold their position, and hear them not only back off the throttle but pretty much turn the engine off immediately, i can't help but be disappointed. The ai has always been bad in gt, and the series goes back quite a long way. You would've thought it would be acceptable by now, but the ai has gone from stupid and inconsiderate to luca badoer.

+1

 

[ItsHim]

I recently suggested changing exactly that - search "AI aggression" in the Feedback page. Apparently no one else ever did, and still no one deems it worthy of a vote yet. I'd post the direct link but it's too long for PS3.

.

Shame, really.

 

[mister dog]

Superbad? No. Ultrabad? Maybe. Megabad? Yes. That's a million bad. Every time I get close enough to pass an AI, even if I'm overspeeding into a turn or drifting past them or doing something else that any human player could easily counter and hold their position, and hear them not only back off the throttle but pretty much turn the engine off immediately, I can't help but be disappointed. The AI has always been bad in GT, and the series goes back quite a long way. You would've thought it would be acceptable by now, but the AI has gone from stupid and inconsiderate to Luca Badoer.

Something PD could easily correct with a update no? My hunch it's just simple code "bot encounters object within 1 meter, bot turns of engine temporarily".

 

[Morgoth_666]

Something PD could easily correct with a update no? My hunch it's just simple code "bot encounters object within 1 meter, bot turns of engine temporarily".

They could improve it tremendously by removing that, or by letting us adjust AI aggression and maybe difficulty in GT Life. They changed it in a patch to add that, completely ruining GT Life. So it's tough to see why they couldn't fix it in a patch.

The ramming I can deal with, but the parking just makes me die a little every time, and they get me almost every time they park directly in front of me. I never see that one coming.

I still think it is tied to their updated behavior when lapping them. And in my opinion they can throw that behavior off a cliff too. I'd rather they just raced me instead of swerving all over the place when way in front of me and then diving "out of my way" directly into my path on the racing line where there was room before they did so and then parking. But it does help the AIs lap each other.

 

[mr_serious]

(verify*) Just as good as i am with statistical interpretation it only takes common sense to imagine this. After all people where weeping over how the career mode is critically underdeveloped and skeletal in its content abundance.
...
Answering your own question should not be so hard, should it?
...

should be 'were', you might want to look back at some of your other posts for some more atrocious spelling and grammar if you are going to start criticising others and going completely off-topic. I just assumed English wasn't your first language.

Please try to actually make sense with your needlessly long words and stay on topic. I can't actually tell if you think the AI are good or bad?

 

[another_jakhole]

this isn't directed at you ^^^

Something PD could easily correct with a update no? My hunch it's just simple code "bot encounters object within 1 meter, bot turns of engine temporarily".

simple code, AI, words?

noooooo way. Everybody can only guess what can be changed to fix ONE thing. This is GT on the PS3. It's more complex than +10 years of experience with GT and its AI can fix as simple as you think it is.

2:24


my hunch: improving/revising/adjusting/"fixing" anything having to do with AI isn't so obvious. The video was to kind of show that they don't leave something alone because of incompetence on specific PD workers' parts. Some members like to suggest that problems arise and stick with the updates because of that. I think it's obvious that Kaz and the AI programmers know that the AI isn't fast enough for most and isn't risky renough to reflect a human's complex problem-solving and concept grasping skills.

The AI will try to avoid you, provided you don't drive like an ass around them.

But they are somewhat cowardly and give up their spot to you quickly.

👍 + they're not fast enough around corners/turns. Daytona and Fuji Speedway, the turns are/can be wide and go a long way before the straights or another turn immediately afterwards.

Bad AI goes off track or crashes often, whether it be once every race or multiple times in one race. Unless it's an endurance race, humans don't realistically crash in 5 lap races. I'd rather have humanly realistic AI that I have to handicap myself against by simply lowering the power using the power limiter. As has been repeated, video games need to cater to the casual gamer more than the serious gamer.

It's not a pain making non-racing games more difficult with difficulty settings. It's difficult to make a sim-racing game that can cater to everybody, because of nitpicking. Kaz had a power limiter added to the game that can be used for more than just one reason. It's there to help make a certain car be able to qualify in a regulated race/event, and also, to help make racing more difficult for many of you. You can complain that the AI makes the cars too easy to race against. Just don't say we shouldn't have to be forced to have to make our cars weaker to have a decent race. It's stubborn and only shows that perfection is expected. For the most part, AI in video games won't be able to replicate the way humans react in every scenario imaginable.

GT5's AI needs improvement. It's far from being terrible, though. There's no reason to think it has to be brilliant, especially with it being on the PS3 (the PS3 isn't the simplest to work with).

Kaz resorted to making Seasonal Events more difficult by having the lead car be way up front. Don't you think he'd rather it not have to be that way? It's compromising for the lack of human-like AI, problems matching cars up, and in compromisation to the weaker racers, which is my guess. Why the AI aggressiveness setting isn't applicable here, we don't know. Why Kaz hasn't added more A-Spec events, even though he's recognized it, we don't know.

I could go on for a looooong time, and all we can do is guess the reasons for these things not being changed. It's not due to incompetence. A good number of you who've posted in here and around the forum, only some, seem to think Kaz could manage this game better, but you have no idea. He isn't where he's at now because he knows the right people. PD and Kaz are so revered because of how dedicated they are to improving this gem since '92. JUST saying. They have know-how and it's all a matter of time. As technology and conditions improve, so will everything else.

I felt like ranting.

 

[mr_serious]

Well now that you are clearly fascinated about my opinion on this to the point of not being able to intellectually infer from previous statements,

This sentence may be grammatically correct, but when someone is fascinated by something it usually drives them to make inferences. Unfortunately in your previous statements your sentence construction was so awful and unnecessarily verbose I really couldn't be bothered.

i think the AI is bad as from my experience it fails to provide and stimulate excitement that i had experienced in previous titles despite with the addition of apparent improvement on the issue. However this does not affect the overall game to a detrimental level as it seems that online acts as a metaphorical buffer.

This doesn't work if your PS3 is not connected to the internet, or you are autistic, or just simply anti-social though does it?

 

[mr_serious]

I assume you fit into these categories simultaneously so i do understand and sympathize when taking this into consideration.

Actually no, but there is no harm in understanding how bad design decisions might detrimentally affect certain members of the player base.

But yet again it is clear that online mode was priority for Kaz in the sense of the ultimate experience from the franchise especially with the huge fanbase that is exclusively engaged.

Anyway putting your beligerent attitude to one side, your assertions are not 'clear' at all. This is what LSM was asking you. Where is your evidence? Without it your facts are actually opinions. Not that there is anything wrong with having opinions, just don't try belittling others because they have a different perspective.

 

[mister dog]

this isn't directed at you ^^^



simple code, AI, words?

noooooo way. Everybody can only guess what can be changed to fix ONE thing. This is GT on the PS3. It's more complex than +10 years of experience with GT and its AI can fix as simple as you think it is.

2:24


my hunch: improving/revising/adjusting/"fixing" anything having to do with AI isn't so obvious. The video was to kind of show that they don't leave something alone because of incompetence on specific PD workers' parts. Some members like to suggest that problems arise and stick with the updates because of that. I think it's obvious that Kaz and the AI programmers know that the AI isn't fast enough for most and isn't risky renough to reflect a human's complex problem-solving and concept grasping skills.


👍 + they're not fast enough around corners/turns. Daytona and Fuji Speedway, the turns are/can be wide and go a long way before the straights or another turn immediately afterwards.

Bad AI goes off track or crashes often, whether it be once every race or multiple times in one race. Unless it's an endurance race, humans don't realistically crash in 5 lap races. I'd rather have humanly realistic AI that I have to handicap myself against by simply lowering the power using the power limiter. As has been repeated, video games need to cater to the casual gamer more than the serious gamer.

It's not a pain making non-racing games more difficult with difficulty settings. It's difficult to make a sim-racing game that can cater to everybody, because of nitpicking. Kaz had a power limiter added to the game that can be used for more than just one reason. It's there to help make a certain car be able to qualify in a regulated race/event, and also, to help make racing more difficult for many of you. You can complain that the AI makes the cars too easy to race against. Just don't say we shouldn't have to be forced to have to make our cars weaker to have a decent race. It's stubborn and only shows that perfection is expected. For the most part, AI in video games won't be able to replicate the way humans react in every scenario imaginable.

GT5's AI needs improvement. It's far from being terrible, though. There's no reason to think it has to be brilliant, especially with it being on the PS3 (the PS3 isn't the simplest to work with).

Kaz resorted to making Seasonal Events more difficult by having the lead car be way up front. Don't you think he'd rather it not have to be that way? It's compromising for the lack of human-like AI, problems matching cars up, and in compromisation to the weaker racers, which is my guess. Why the AI aggressiveness setting isn't applicable here, we don't know. Why Kaz hasn't added more A-Spec events, even though he's recognized it, we don't know.

I could go on for a looooong time, and all we can do is guess the reasons for these things not being changed. It's not due to incompetence. A good number of you who've posted in here and around the forum, only some, seem to think Kaz could manage this game better, but you have no idea. He isn't where he's at now because he knows the right people. PD and Kaz are so revered because of how dedicated they are to improving this gem since '92. JUST saying. They have know-how and it's all a matter of time. As technology and conditions improve, so will everything else.

I felt like ranting.

To make a long story short, still think it must not be a nobel price winning effort to make the bots stop backing off and holding the gas for 3 seconds whenever you pass em

 

[Morgoth_666]

To make a long story short, still think it must not be a nobel price winning effort to make the bots stop backing off and holding the gas for 3 seconds whenever you pass em

There might just be a better solution than that.

 

[mr_serious]

I am not disputing this "bad design decision" as you describe it and has been apparently improved in update as it should go unsaid. But as i will repeat for another time there are alternatives which such groups can enjoy from. Multiplayer for example or even photo mode.

Yet the forums have shown that there are still many who gain no satisfaction from multiplayer or photomode. This thread is full of those people.

You have forgotten that i can return the ball over the fence and ask you the same question so lets just assume for a moment that it is true

You can expect a large majority of people who have invested in a product to take full advantage of its features (online for example) despite some flaws that it might have. I mean there is always ways around a situation or problem where for example using a car with inferior performance in races which is what i ironically did with great success.

What question are you asking me? There is no reciprocal of what I asked you.

My personal solution was to go and play one of my many other racing games, almost all of which provide a better single player racing experience. The sad fact is that for the first time since GT1 I am not anxiously awaiting the next instalment in the series as I have lost faith in PD's commitment or even ability to provide a racing experience.

 

[another_jakhole]

To make a long story short, still think it must not be a nobel price winning effort to make the bots stop backing off and holding the gas for 3 seconds whenever you pass em

righhhhhhhT........


I don't get it. you didn't reply seriously.

to be clear, you're wrong.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

(verify*) Just as good as i am with statistical interpretation it only takes common sense to imagine this. After all people where weeping over how the career mode is critically underdeveloped and skeletal in its content abundance.

No it doesn't? That is a vague assumption to think that people revert to online all the time. Especially when there is a vast amount of threads to say otherwise. Most (here) play in leagues in private rooms and those who play in the public area make complaints on the forum to show that even that area is in need of improvements. To say it takes common sense to imagine that is just naive, this forum says the opposite. Use the search bar, learn the forum, don't act as if you already know or have been here for some extended amount of time.

Answering your own question should not be so hard, should it?

I must ask what is with the eye roll? It comes off as if you have this self proclaimed sense of worth over the rest of us. To be honest most of what you say is all over the place and many of us don't understand what you're saying. Could you try and be more clear? Also why would I answer a question I posed to you?


The question I ask of you compared to me has an answer, I can use the search bar and bring several past threads showing a sense of distaste for GT5 set up over the year plus it has been around. You're obviously missing the mark in what I'm saying.

Can't see the image.

 

[JBanton]

So far as I've experienced the GT5 AI has absolutely no aggression whatsoever, as soon as they see you get close they surrendertheir position.

Something else I've noticed is that the AI seems to love forming a train, It's almost comical, all the cars follow meach other around the track like a line of sheep.

One example is that if the AI is forced off the track, they will sit there and wait for everyone to merrily pass by until they leave a clear track. What is this? A gentleman allowing female racers through?

 

[BWX]

I recently suggested changing exactly that - search "AI aggression" in the Feedback page. Apparently no one else ever did, and still no one deems it worthy of a vote yet. I'd post the direct link but it's too long for PS3.


Unrelated -- I'd sure like to get ahold of one of the GT5 copies with AIs that don't ram me repeatedly and predictably when I'm racing beside them quite respectfully and giving them all or more than they need -- even 90%+ -- of the road to drive on. If you get in front they'll still often try to spin you until you get a little lead. Then they vanish.

Page two, about 23rd in list with 1,808 votes. ''A.I. more intuitive.''
http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums/96709-gt5-feedback?filter=top&page=2

That list of feedback suggestions is ridiculous. Either it's not modderated at all, or very poorly. Look on the last couple pages.

Here are a few examples..
http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums/96709-gt5-feedback/suggestions/2368446-g
g <--- WTH?


http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums/96709-gt5-feedback/suggestions/2343025-more-ideas
More ideas
Would it be possible to have the White Stig and Black Stig and Green Stig from Top Gear as an outfit please and please can you program in to the game an invitation system for online multiplayer <--- How do these get approved?

This proves that the feedback system is seriously flawed and needs moderation-->
http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums/96709-gt5-feedback/suggestions/2591527-fawk-you-b-tches-
FAWK YOU B ! TCHES!!!
S U C K My NuTs!!

Yeah... with so many nonsense feedback enties, and duplicate entries (how many mention better AI?) - Most of the entries just get lost in the mess.

 

[NotSoSilentBob]

S

One example is that if the AI is forced off the track, they will sit there and wait for everyone to merrily pass by until they leave a clear track. What is this? A gentleman allowing female racers through?

No that is considered track Etiquette, as in yielding to on course traffic. Go to a real course and spin out. If you even try to move your car while other competitors are around you will be black flagged if not banned from the whole course for life.

 

[JBanton]

No that is considered track Etiquette, as in yielding to on course traffic. Go to a real course and spin out. If you even try to move your car while other competitors are around you will be black flagged if not banned from the whole course for life.

I can understand etiquette but the AI just sits there like it was me daydreaming about my gf, and then once everyone has passed they calmy cruise back on to the track, there's just absolutely no aggression or sense of urgency. It's like the AI is programmed to Sunday drive.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I can understand etiquette but the AI just sits there like it was me daydreaming about my gf, and then once everyone has passed they calmy cruise back on to the track, there's just absolutely no aggression or sense of urgency. It's like the AI is programmed to Sunday drive.

It is the real driving simulator after all .

 

[omgitsbees]

I can understand etiquette but the AI just sits there like it was me daydreaming about my gf, and then once everyone has passed they calmy cruise back on to the track, there's just absolutely no aggression or sense of urgency. It's like the AI is programmed to Sunday drive.

Well I can say that if it was modeled after my style of driving, it would be realistic.

 

[another_jakhole]

lol BWX, I thought you were seriously replying with those stinging words.

I think that feedback section is a bit useless, now. PD answered some of them and some of them have too many votes by now. A refreshed feedback section would be great without the "answereed" feedback options.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Page two, about 23rd in list with 1,808 votes. ''A.I. more intuitive.''
http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums/96709-gt5-feedback?filter=top&page=2

...

I'm aware of how hopeless a mess the feedback is, but sadly it is about the best avenue we have for communicating ideas, other than never-seen discussion threads and random twitter comments. Until something gets over a few hundred votes it's completely invisible.

But the suggestion was not out there before and now it is. If people would rather put their votes into something complicated like "make the bots drive better" and not into something specific and relatively basic like "make an existing option added in a patch apply to the same exact thing in another game mode, which was also changed in a patch" then so be it.

I never expected it to get many votes anyway, though I hoped for 1 or 2. Everyone's too excited about about the livery editor and 200 new premium cars coming in the next patch.

 

[BWX]

LOL, yeah 200 premiums next patch. Can't wait!