GT5 AI superbad ?

LMSCorvetteGT2 · Feb 23, 2012

ReincarnationB
And it is a vague assumption to think that people revert to moaning about something in their spare time when they could be enjoying the game.

I didn't say that the AI did not need improvements but online mode needs improvements which i would prioritise over with out much fuss.

Never said you didn't, I know you believe in AI improvements because unlike you I actually take the time to read post

Trust me i have but hadn't registered.. so having said that you are biting on your own words now.

Now you are avoiding the question and become irritable..... Take a deep breath..... I implicitly asked you do you have evidence to show that people play more online because you begin to give me hyperbolised answers about how everyone think that the AI is such a big problem when this is simple untrue.

Not really, just was curious seeing it in many of your post even those aside from this thread I just wanted to know. If it is that personal to you or you feel I'm attacking (not sure how seeing it's the internet not the emotion-net).

The part I bolded is a run on sentence, also "about how everyone thinks" the other should be "this is simply not true"

You can do whatever you like but i have stated that because of the AI, which i am not entirely defending, more people are seeking to go online and engage (as you basically can not imagine) in order to maximize their experience of the franchise, Otherwise they would not be taking advantage of the game's potential. Therefore becoming dependent on AI does your experience an unhealthy favour.

I never said people weren't going online at all, I even pointed out that people do by joining the racing groups on GTP, are you that absent minded that you just jump over these key things I say. The ending to what you say makes little sense really, and if I understand it correctly is a subjective view point at the end of the day. A lot of what you say reads that way to begin with but you pass it off as fact. So I ask once again, what sort of tangible evidence do you have to show that more people are going to online and not making complaints about it as well? I gave you several links that show complaints, criticisms and so on.

Morgoth_666 · Feb 23, 2012

ReincarnationB
Well i have said it now OK , but the point is that the remainder of indeed GTP and beyond can be content with the quality of the AI and i am certainly one of them.

I don't want to get in the way of the fun you two are obviously having, but on this one point I do have something to add.

I recently had two people use GT5 with my wheel for the first time. One is a DS3 veteran, the other had never touched the game before. Both frequently had problems with the AI doing horrible things that made trying to learn very frustrating(and these instances were not the player's fault).

If a non-gamer who has never played GT5 or used a wheel can correctly identify clear idiocy on the part of the AI(slamming on the brakes for no reason right in front of them causing a crash) then there is in fact a serious problem. Whether this is enough to make it important since it seems this is all about priorities I suppose is another matter.

mr_serious · Feb 23, 2012

ReincarnationB
Well use a thesaurus and you will eventually strike gold.

You should put your thesaurus down because your penchant for long words is obfuscating your meaning more often than disambiguating. Have you heard of the campaign for clear English? You should look it up.

ReincarnationB
But you still assuming as you still think that the majority of users are up in arms about this subject and therefore thinking i am wrong.

No one here has said the majority of users are up in arms about it, we have just said whether we think the AI is superbad (see title of thread) or not and how we would like it improved (or not)

ReincarnationB
I will repeat for the final time i am not disputing what is needed and what is not needed so this statement is irrelevant. And you don't believe major changes are needed somewhere else.... like online mode

No one said major improvements aren't needed anywhere else however this thread is about the AI not the online portion

ReincarnationB
Well i have said it now OK , but the point is that the remainder of indeed GTP and beyond can be content with the quality of the AI and i am certainly one of them.

Many in this thread and the other threads linked to by LSMCorvette are not content with the quality of the AI. In addition the bolded section contradicts what you said previously.

ReincarnationB
Yes really, because you keep going off at a tangent just like your hormones i can imagine just because i had a skewed or different view on how the AI is not paramountly fundamental to the experience of the franchise which demonstrates you don't have a grip of your argument at all.

You are the one going off on a tangent. If you want to discuss what improvements should be prioritised then you should start your own thread for that.

ReincarnationB
1)I will continue to prevent the stoop down to this form of cowboy behavior. 2)But as seen you clearly assume that AI that is implemented for a relatively short A and B spec series should be seen as more importance over various improvements in the quality of online racing which as it still seems is the "creme de le creme" of the GT5 experience. OH there is even someone moaning about how too much focus is on online multiplayer. Which seemed to be contrary to your belief.

1) What does this even mean?
2) This is not the subject being discussed in this thread

I won't be responding to you further since you are repeatedly contradicting yourself and seem to be taking an antagonistic stance merely for the sake of it.

Have a good day sir

LMSCorvetteGT2 · Feb 23, 2012

ReincarnationB
Well use a thesaurus and you will eventually strike gold.

But you still assuming as you still think that the majority of users are up in arms about this subject and therefore thinking i am wrong.

Never did I say a majority, show me where I said that and I'll apologize because I know there isn't a majority. It is a large group of people that dislike it but not the majority who still play the game.

I will repeat for the final time i am not disputing what is needed and what is not needed so this statement is irrelevant. And you don't believe major changes are needed somewhere else.... like online mode

I said several threads ago that I think online needs fixing if you actually looked to the links I gave you instead of being a smart ass you'd see that many are about online. You'd also see that I post in those with complaints about online. So once again you're missing the mark and forgetting points made earlier and just coming of ignorant and allowing a massive ego to see past any point but the one you make. I'm confused why you can't remember key points in this thread between us, yet I can?

This is an inadequate quantity i am afraid
As this does not answer my question.

How is it inadequate, there are obviously several more, I'm not going to do all the searching for you. Part of a debate is providing evidence I have done so you say common sense is yours however that isn't real evidence at all. At this point you're just back tracking and trying to make quick pot shot with no real success.

Well i have said it now OK , but the point is that the remainder of indeed GTP and beyond can be content with the quality of the AI and i am certainly one of them.

No where, and I mean no where do I say that the majority of GT5 players hate the AI or other features. So to act as if I am and put words in my mouth with each response, you tend to prove to many of us that you don't know what the hell you are going on about. There is a good group of people that dislike it and if you did a search of GTP's GT5 sub-forum you'd see that. The feedback area is another section as well that proves what I'm trying to say.

Also you nor I know what the remainder is as far as numbers go. You don't know how many are mad about the game, but the several threads I gave you plus the multiple more that I didn't are a good indicator that it isn't a small group.

Yes really, because you keep going off at a tangent just like your hormones i can imagine just because i had a skewed or different view on how the AI is not paramountly fundamental to the experience of the franchise which demonstrates you don't have a grip of your argument at all.

What? Like I said I just was curious because to me it seems as if you think you may know more than the many of us who actually have debated this topic many times before this thread. However, you obviously don't believe there are several threads prior or going on that talk about GT5 let downs, or missing parts to the games and wish lists. You not being able to believe me and then jumping to this I'm all emotional banter, seems to show more about you honestly.

I will continue to prevent the stoop down to this form of cowboy behavior. But as seen you clearly assume that AI that is implemented for a relatively short A and B spec series should be seen as more importance over various improvements in the quality of online racing which as it still seems is the "creme de le creme" of the GT5 experience. OH there is even someone moaning about how too much focus is on online multiplayer. Which seemed to be contrary to your belief.

Cowboy behavior? Please explain this. Seeing as this thread is about GT5 AI and how bad it is, obviously I'm we are going to talk about that. It is the topic of the thread, are you that dense and daft that you can't understand that? Why would I talk about how bad online is when the topic isn't that. If you want to talk about how bad online is you can find the necessary thread. However, I don't say anywhere that I see the AI more important than online or vice versa. This may come as a surprise to you but I may find both important, however since the topic is horrible AI that is why I'm so critical of it at the moment. Also AUP would like us to stay on topic so a thread doesn't get closed down, something you should have learned when you joined the forum.

CSLACR · Feb 23, 2012

ReincarnationB
Well use a thesaurus and you will eventually strike gold.

But you still assuming as you still think that the majority of users are up in arms about this subject and therefore thinking i am wrong.

I will repeat for the final time i am not disputing what is needed and what is not needed so this statement is irrelevant. And you don't believe major changes are needed somewhere else.... like online mode

This is an inadequate quantity i am afraid
As this does not answer my question.

Well i have said it now OK , but the point is that the remainder of indeed GTP and beyond can be content with the quality of the AI and i am certainly one of them.

Yes really, because you keep going off at a tangent just like your hormones i can imagine just because i had a skewed or different view on how the AI is not paramountly fundamental to the experience of the franchise which demonstrates you don't have a grip of your argument at all.

I will continue to prevent the stoop down to this form of cowboy behavior. But as seen you clearly assume that AI that is implemented for a relatively short A and B spec series should be seen as more importance over various improvements in the quality of online racing which as it still seems is the "creme de le creme" of the GT5 experience. OH there is even someone moaning about how too much focus is on online multiplayer. Which seemed to be contrary to your belief.

You seem to be clever, so I'll put this here directly.
If you don't think GT5's AI is very poor, you don't know how to drive properly.

They drive like absolute nimrods 99% of the time. The 1% is in the F1 championship, and they're still kinda slow there.

UnkaD · Feb 24, 2012

Well, at least the game physics don't change for the AI drivers, like in other games I've played. lol In the newest Driver title, I notice that any AI that you're chasing seems to shoot out of a rocket from any corner with any vehicle. In one mission, I blocked the path of the AI with my car. He just drove up to my passenger door, and from a dead stop he was doing about 80mph in 2 seconds with my car stuck on the front sideways. BS

But back to the thread topic... Yeah, GT5 AI sucks and is way too mild and polite. However, I don't remember it being like that when the game first came out. I loved the AI at first, so when did they change it?

elston87 · Feb 24, 2012

It's supposed to be a simulator, where you properly obey the rules of racing such as common courtesies and the like (notice how the AI brakes for you if you decide to Brake Check them slightly), but because most players seem to ignore, they often ram the AI off into oblivion...

GT5 has great artificial intelligence because it was programmed to be realistic. If the AI gets ran off the track, he waits for the oncoming drivers to make the corner before getting back on the road, unlike GT4 where the AI just braces for it. Try racing around Suzuka on Racing Hard tires in a Super GT500 race. It's a great experience...

Samus · Feb 24, 2012

elston87
It's supposed to be a simulator, where you properly obey the rules of racing such as common courtesies and the like (notice how the AI brakes for you if you decide to Brake Check them slightly), but because most players seem to ignore, they often ram the AI off into oblivion...

GT5 has great artificial intelligence because it was programmed to be realistic.

Sorry but that is complete baloney.

Duck · Feb 24, 2012

Aside the lack of overall speed, the AI wasn't that bad before 1.06 update. After that, PD introduced the 'scared kittens' mode, which make them brake if you approach overtake on the outside. Before 1.06 they also slammed you a bit less.
I think it's one of the features they worsen through the developing process

BWX · Feb 24, 2012

elston87, it's balogna too.

mr_serious · Feb 24, 2012

elston87
It's supposed to be a simulator, where you properly obey the rules of racing such as common courtesies and the like (notice how the AI brakes for you if you decide to Brake Check them slightly), but because most players seem to ignore, they often ram the AI off into oblivion...

GT5 has great artificial intelligence because it was programmed to be realistic. If the AI gets ran off the track, he waits for the oncoming drivers to make the corner before getting back on the road, unlike GT4 where the AI just braces for it. Try racing around Suzuka on Racing Hard tires in a Super GT500 race. It's a great experience...

First in many RL race formats break checking is considered extremely discourteous and dangerous. Repeatedly doing so frequently results in a DQ for the break checker.

Secondly why not watch some actual racing, anything from the Ginetta juniors to BTCC or DTM and compare that to one of your GT5 replays.

[edit]
Try reading this rather long post which explains why GT (or FM for that matter) will never implement a remotely realistic, challenging AI

CoffeeKaioken · Apr 5, 2012

Online racing = problem solved

The only problems I've ever had with the AI is how you can't even budge them when you press your car up against theirs, that gets super frustrating. Even ramming them from behind by braking late doesn't upset their line, wtf? Yet if they do it to you, you're screwed.

Samus · Apr 5, 2012

CoffeeKaioken
Online racing = problem solved.

No no no no no no no. No. No. Not sure how many times I can say no. But suffice to say, I do not agree with this statement at all. Racing online doesn't solve any issues, it just avoids them whilst creating many others.

ItsHim · Apr 5, 2012

The closest offline races I experienced were in Midnight Club 3. But the AI was both scripted and rubberbanded. It did work though, usually down to a neck on neck finish. Is this a road PD will follow? Unlikely.

There's also little chance any AI can account for the setups the player uses. Slapping on a race suspension gives 10-20 seconds a lap on the Nordschleife. So while running stock cars the AI might show a decent pace, it gets destroyed otherwise. Who's to blame?

I too would like to have the possibility to increase the pace of the AI. But what would happen? Everyone would max the difficulty out and then bitch about not being able to beat the opposition. Well not everyone but a very vocal group of the user base.

It happened to the original seasonal, to the expert seasonal, which was a one off, and to the licence tests. The difficulty was toned down afterwards. Though in my opinion there was nothing wrong in the first place.

It's a shame and I don't like it either, but I fear if there's no rubber banded AI then this is all we get in the next couple of years. More and faster options would be nice though. But that would probably offend some again so that's not going to come I fear.

Morgoth_666 · Apr 5, 2012

ItsHim
The closest offline races I experienced were in Midnight Club 3. But the AI was both scripted and rubberbanded. It did work though, usually down to a neck on neck finish. Is this a road PD will follow? Unlikely.

There's also little chance any AI can account for the setups the player uses. Slapping on a race suspension gives 10-20 seconds a lap on the Nordschleife. So while running stock cars the AI might show a decent pace, it gets destroyed otherwise. Who's to blame?

I too would like to have the possibility to increase the pace of the AI. But what would happen? Everyone would max the difficulty out and then bitch about not being able to beat the opposition. Well not everyone but a very vocal group of the user base.

It happened to the original seasonal, to the expert seasonal, which was a one off, and to the licence tests. The difficulty was toned down afterwards. Though in my opinion there was nothing wrong in the first place.

It's a shame and I don't like it either, but I fear if there's no rubber banded AI then this is all we get in the next couple of years. More and faster options would be nice though. But that would probably offend some again so that's not going to come I fear.

The thing is... the AI in GT5 is rubberbanded, at least when you are ahead. However, they tend to release the "pull" when they get within a few seconds which doesn't produce the sorts of close finishes you describe, and which I've seen in some other games.

The biggest problem with the AI in GT5 isn't that they are slow - that is surely a problem and needs to be fixed but you can work around it. The real issue is that they refuse to race with you to the point of trying to kill you when you get close. Even someone with no experience in racing games can tell that it isn't right that the AI jams on the brakes when you are coming up behind them with no danger of hitting them unless they jam on the brakes. When that doesn't happen you have no chance of racing them most of the time since they wave you through... except once in a while when you least expect it they fight for the spot and you make contact expecting them to back off.

And the funniest bit is that they didn't always do this, someone thought it would be a good idea to add it, and they don't do it in Arcade races.

One day, perhaps, PD will come to understand why most other games have difficulty settings that apply to BOTH quick exhibition-style game modes AND to the in-depth career modes. Making your game easier for a lot of people with no option just makes a lot of other people not want to play your games any more.

Furinkazen · Apr 6, 2012

I got my own theory on GT5 AI.

I have an age-old PC sim NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, and for each track you can edit AI just by changing their settings via simple numbers in the file for each track (drag, fuel use, etc..), but a couple things made me think.

There is a file called "AI_line_modifier" and this affects how AI react. At 1.0 they drive the line that they are primarily programmed to and generally race pretty clean and neat without incident. However if you raise the number they become more aggressive, hunting for line's and basically becoming a lot more aggressive. However this require more grip and they often make more mistakes and crash a lot more because of it.

On the flip side if you turn it down to something like 0.9, they become more conservative, they hold their line and rarely move, even when coming up on traffic 30mph slower. Deleting this line entirely does a bit of both, as they are free to pick where to go and this strikes a good balance.

This makes me think that GT's AI almost has a similar principle. In A-Spec, where AI has not been tweaked much, and the Seasonals, AI is heavily scripted, like it is running a regular conservative line (much like the 0.9 value I mentioned above). This is why it can be so zombie-like at times with regards to where they are, they are so focused on holding their line, they are reluctant to let it go or end up in trouble, hence the conservative approach.

The opposite can be said of Arcade mode, with aggression 10, it's still on rails but it's definitely turned up, AI will try and run around you, but only if they can't hold their line. Basically the AI in GT5 appears almost set to be on their own race and track, oblivious to the player.

The major question is does GT with its complex physics engine have it to have more dynamic AI, like when I mentioned my AI on my NR2003 sim without a modifier? Could it withstand AI freely able to make their own calculations and decisions. The answer is partially yes and no.

Yes in that B-Spec, drivers are more dynamic with pace changes and overtaking, but that is expected by GT5's engine. When you give a B-Spec driver the command "Speed up" that gives the driver AI a set parameter to speed up to. Whereas with the player in A-Spec, the AI does not know what the player will do and cannot adjust accordingly, hence the simplified AI structure.

(Now, did that make any sense?)

mr_serious · Apr 6, 2012

CoffeeKaioken
Online racing = problem solved

The only problems I've ever had with the AI is how you can't even budge them when you press your car up against theirs, that gets super frustrating. Even ramming them from behind by braking late doesn't upset their line, wtf? Yet if they do it to you, you're screwed.

oh really?

I have a friend who recently got GT5 after years of me trying to persuade him to try some driving games instead of all the fantasy stuff. He's been working through A-space and doing seasonals. He finally felt ready for a race, so I dusted off GT5 (because I simply don't play it anymore) and popped it in the PS3.

My PS3 is wired to a gigabit router, although my internet bandwidth is only 6mbps I didn't used to have any problems in the past with the network.

Now however it can take five minutes just to retrieve the news & load the game. My friend and I spent 4 hours of dropouts and super slow PSN speeds, sometimes taking 10 minutes to join our private lounges. We managed about 5 races in that four hours. The online performance is currently a joke and solves nothing.

ItsHim
There's also little chance any AI can account for the setups the player uses. Slapping on a race suspension gives 10-20 seconds a lap on the Nordschleife. So while running stock cars the AI might show a decent pace, it gets destroyed otherwise. Who's to blame?

Actually Shift 2 in quick race mode tailors the AI cars to your setup - go in with a heavily modified car, the AI will have those upgrades too. It's perfectly possible to implement this, unfortunately PD are a bit odd in their feature selection (I am being polite here!)

mr_serious · Apr 6, 2012

please delete me - got a double post for some reason

Giygas · Apr 6, 2012

The AI isnt bad at all, but i do think that a problem would be that they dont seem to like some cars.

looking at the stats, a Panoz Esperante Gtr-1 should wipe the floor with most of the race cars it competes against, but the opposite is true.

ItsHim · Apr 6, 2012

mr_serious
Actually Shift 2 in quick race mode tailors the AI cars to your setup - go in with a heavily modified car, the AI will have those upgrades too. It's perfectly possible to implement this, unfortunately PD are a bit odd in their feature selection (I am being polite here!)

While it's both true that PD is "odd" and Shift 1 and 2 match the player's car in terms of upgrades, the latter is not true for a setup as in gearing or suspension settings. The AI in Shift 1 (on the 360) was quite ok after a patch which cut down the general a-hole attitude (I guess SMS got their inspiration from looking at a random open lobby). But they completely failed to keep up with me on the Nordschleife in a stock car. No wonder as my daily Shift 1 fix consisted of a quick lap in a Ferrari in the Eifel.

The only way I can think of fixing this is either the developers thinking up setups for 1000 cars on 20 tracks, or using some form of rubber banding or cheating, sorry, I meant scripting.

A guy took 20 seconds out of me just the other day because he set up his GT86 with a race suspension and I had my car completely stock. No abuse of the power limiter or the ballast from me either.

I really see no feasible way at all to account for user settings. In Arcade mode the cars are fairly matched, if you can live with the blasted rabbit cars that do show up at random, as long as you give the AI an tyre advantage (depending on skill) and don't fiddle with suspension and/or tranny settings, it's fairly good.

I don't do much online nowadays, but I'm always amazed what incompetent people populate public servers. I'd rather take the Arcade mode AI any day, because overall they do slightly better on average.

sinbad · Apr 7, 2012

I find the a.i incredibly annoying for a few reasons:

1. Their outright pace is very slow.

2. If you so much as look to the outside line whilst behind one, they just lift completely. This really annoys me. Any potential "battle" just ends before it even starts.

3. They do not "see" positive road camber or the extra grip it will offer.

4. They're hopeless on most user created tracks.

5. They always make the same mistake after flugplatz!

6. You can't choose their car or tyres.

7. In one make cup, they use stock versions of whatever car you use, why not just use the car you're using??!

My personal theory is that (the frankly rubbish) b-spec mode forced an over complicated and unsuccessful new approach to the a.i.

I'm not saying that creating good, fast, realistic a.i is easy, but if the way you do it results in what we have, then you're doing it the wrong way.

Lots of games have fine a.i. Gt5 online isn't good enough to make up for it.

ItsHim · Apr 7, 2012

Are you referring to A-spec or Arcade Mode with an AI aggressiveness setting of 10? I suspect the former. Because Arcade mode AI is much better than A-spec for whatever reason, whilst all your points are for the most part true for A-spec.

sinbad
I find the a.i incredibly annoying for a few reasons:

2. If you so much as look to the outside line whilst behind one, they just lift completely. This really annoys me. Any potential "battle" just ends before it even starts.

6. You can't choose their car or tyres.

My personal theory is that (the frankly rubbish) b-spec mode forced an over complicated and unsuccessful new approach to the a.i.

I'm not saying that creating good, fast, realistic a.i is easy, but if the way you do it results in what we have, then you're doing it the wrong way.

Lots of games have fine a.i. Gt5 online isn't good enough to make up for it.

Concerning Arcade mode:

2: Try giving the AI some space. Basically not act like the notorious DTM or BTCC hooligans. I was surprised how clean the racing was for instance in the Australian V8 series. Helps a lot because most Bobs will avoid trading paint. Not all, but a fair share.

6: Fit your car with the compound you'd like the AI to use. Load up an Arcade race. Before race start switch to the tyres you'd like to use yourself and then start the race. The AI will use your original tyre compound.

Your theory: there was much complaint the license tests being unfair because contact between cars would fail the test. In an update PD introduced the scared kitty mode (to quote another user) to address this issue. With the known consequences to overall gameplay. Personally I would like a much much tougher opposition, but it seems many other people dont like losing to the game. And have little understanding of race etiquette on top of that.

I would very much like more control over the opponents right down to specific cars or them using my setups. Or assign a specific Bob to a (fast) car, because there's usually one good AI driver or two in Aspec, but very often he gets assigned a weak car. I had brilliant races running 6th and fight for 4th place, but those races can't be staged for running for the lead unfortunately.

The basic AI is sound in my opinion, unfortunately it was toned down to cater for the tastes of the more casual player in Aspec.

Care to share which console games have a good AI, or for that matter a better AI? Can't be Shift (too slow and plain), can't be Supercar Challenge (no awareness of players car whatsoever), can't be Codemasters. Well, could be, but they rely heavily on rubber banding in my experience. Could have been Midnight Club 3 for the PS2, but the AI was both scripted and staged. Yet this game yielded the closest races I have experienced. But please do share your experiences.

CorvetteConquer · Apr 7, 2012

Yes, the A.I. is silly. For that, perhaps PD could somehow integrate online racing with A-Spec mode.

At the end of the day, racers want a good, clean, but close race. The A.I. cannot provide that.

Matty · Apr 7, 2012

ItsHim
.Care to share which console games have a good AI, or for that matter a better AI? Can't be Shift (too slow and plain), can't be Supercar Challenge (no awareness of players car whatsoever), can't be Codemasters. Well, could be, but they rely heavily on rubber banding in my experience. Could have been Midnight Club 3 for the PS2, but the AI was both scripted and staged. Yet this game yielded the closest races I have experienced. But please do share your experiences.

CodeMasters have great AI from my experiences. Put difficulty on 'Legend' and will find it hard to out qualify them, have them a second in front of you and it won't be easy to reel them in.

mr_serious · Apr 7, 2012

ItsHim
Care to share which console games have a good AI, or for that matter a better AI? Can't be Shift (too slow and plain), can't be Supercar Challenge (no awareness of players car whatsoever), can't be Codemasters. Well, could be, but they rely heavily on rubber banding in my experience. Could have been Midnight Club 3 for the PS2, but the AI was both scripted and staged. Yet this game yielded the closest races I have experienced. But please do share your experiences.

I don't know about Shift 1, but the AI in Shift 2 are really pretty good (they could still do with an extra hard mode, but the lines and techniques they use to try to pass you or to defend their position are far more realistic than either GT5 or FM4

I agree with your ideas about setting up races in Arcade mode. Now that sounds like a proper simulator, not a levelling game pretending to be an arcade racer.

karelpipa · Apr 7, 2012

SimonK
No no no no no no no. No. No. Not sure how many times I can say no. But suffice to say, I do not agree with this statement at all. Racing online doesn't solve any issues, it just avoids them whilst creating many others.

100% agree.

I'm okay with slight rubberband effect. But only slight, its obvious, that they can't manually set every car (even only premiums) on every track with every rules possible.
One way is to ban suspension settings (or any other) in some championships.

Zoom!Zoom! · Apr 7, 2012

ItsHim
The basic AI is sound in my opinion, unfortunately it was toned down to cater for the tastes of the more casual player in Aspec.

No doubt since Fm4 WT was also made super easy. Just like Gt5 Arcade you get a little tougher AI in Fm4 Event List. As far as Shift 2 AI I got mixed results. Maybe it's the fact if you come in contact with the AI your cars are "superglued" which means you got to avoid all contact with the AI.

Forgetful · Apr 7, 2012

mr_serious
oh really?

I have a friend who recently got GT5 after years of me trying to persuade him to try some driving games instead of all the fantasy stuff. He's been working through A-space and doing seasonals. He finally felt ready for a race, so I dusted off GT5 (because I simply don't play it anymore) and popped it in the PS3.

My PS3 is wired to a gigabit router, although my internet bandwidth is only 6mbps I didn't used to have any problems in the past with the network.

Now however it can take five minutes just to retrieve the news & load the game. My friend and I spent 4 hours of dropouts and super slow PSN speeds, sometimes taking 10 minutes to join our private lounges. We managed about 5 races in that four hours. The online performance is currently a joke and solves nothing.

Just because network issues keep you from connecting easily doesn't take away from the fact that once you get in to online racing it is an infinitely more rewarding experience than playing against AI. This is not only true in sim racing games, but in shooters, sports games and any other kind of competitive game. We're deep in to the online era of gaming already. Just look at the online racing section of this forum. It's hopping! There are obviously enough people who get a stable enough connection on a regular basis to be able to enjoy racing online.

I've been racing competitively online with GT5 since early in the Prologue days, and had I only ever had AI to race against I would never have put in a fraction of the time I have. Racing real people, especially like minded sim racers, is thrilling, unpredictable and adrenaline pumping, and you don't have to take a silly winner-take-all attitude like you do in a single player campaign. It's a lot closer to real racing and it's highly addictive. I've never enjoyed a third place finish against AI (and I bet most of us don't finish races where we'd finish 3rd against AI, how cool is that? :rolleyes:

), but if I drive well and come thrid to the highly talented drivers I compete against on a regular basis, then I'm thrilled and very satisfied.

Ever seen an AI race like this?

smrtb0mb · Apr 7, 2012

Anyone find it strange that GT5's "new" new track, Cape Ring, is so difficult for the AI? They need a 100pp advantage to make any race there challenging. I don't understand the thinking behind creating a giant loop that your AI is incapable of driving.

The single file nature of the AI is probably the most noticable problem to me. They don't understand the idea of racing side-by-side or late vs early apex. They basically give up when The One True Racing Line is unavailable. They're frustratingly oblivious to any car coming up fast behind them and will swerve into the way just to stick to that invisible line.

They behave totally docile if you drive dirty, but also have this uncanny ability to stabilize an out of control car in a fraction of a second.

It makes them feel like robot obstacles rather than competitors. In most other racing games I've played, the AI at least has some character.

HKS racer · Apr 7, 2012

If we don't consider the A-spec routine to slow down when approached by players, the other biggest advantage of human vs. AI is on braking. If you start running abs OFF you'll find you need a bit of strategy, you can't late brake every corner or you lockup. Modulate braking while making a pass and avoiding lock up can give new life to this game. Expecially in arcade mode with decent AI.

GT5 AI superbad ?

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