GT5 and Forza 3 comparison (video) by Machinima

[balang_479]

Who cares about Forza... GT will be amazing.

 

[phil-t]

Sort of OK comparison I guess.

GT5 replays and interiors are a total notch above FM3 which is nice to see and always PD's speciality.

But apart from that, what is there really to say, except fanboys on here who would take a pop at anything non GT..

The most important thing, GT has better physics.

I'm happy with SRT's comparison of FM3 to PC sims, it isn't perfect, it's not visually shown very well in replays, but it's there or there abouts.. and room for improvement. So far, the GT5 TT shows a lot of traits that are highly unrealistic too, so I think this round of games still will pander slightly to entertainment over what can be quite 'boring' pure sims..
Oh, and the TCS light coming on in the FM3 vid shows it's got assists on!

The damage, well, come on, anyone with FM3 knows setting damage to 'simulation' means you'd be lucky to have limped away with smoke pouring out the back. Of course it's quite 'canned' visually, and I hope GT5 improves on this, but remember that for high speed crashes, PD won't be able to totally destroy most cars either due to manufacturers licensing..

Sound wise, although the TT is still a bit off, I actually have faith PD might actually pull their heads out of the sand and really improve this for the final game, that and some improved tyre sounds would be great..

I don't get the obsession with graphics though, it's as if that's all that matters, how much HDR, how many polygons etc, if that really is your thing, I envy you, I quickly tire of the graphics, and it's everything else that really makes a game a 'game'..

 

[TokyoDrift]

Flawed comparison. PS3 has HDMI and GT5 can output 1080p.

• 
  The most important thing, GT has better physics.

• As for graphics, in this comparison you can tell GT has far better lighting. FM3 uses HDR at FP10 precision. Not sure what GT is using but it is most likely NAO32, or it could be FP16. Either way it is significantly better. Just look at the lighting in the cockpit view.

• Car models are much better in GT.

• Better AA in GT

• Background in these perticular tracks are much different, so you cant really compare. But for now I'll give that to FM3. But other tracks we've seen (Eiger, London, Tokyo etc.) look better then this Forza track.

• Sound, Forza has better sound

• GT has more AF

• GT has better post processing effect's in replays

GT wins this bad comparison.

What's up? Is it not fare to compare the two games at 720p? I think so. You can say what you want about the games - it's all on deaf ears anyway. If you want a racing game, you'll be happy with FM3. If you want a driving game, you'll be happy with GT5. If you are not bothered, and just like car games in general, then you'll be happy with both, and refrain from spurting verbiage about one game vs the other.

These kinds of threads are pointless at the best of times, but made even worse when you get fanboy posts like that one showing so much bias towards GT. Never mind the fact that FM3 has consistent damage on all cars, a superb livery editor, arguably better AI, and from what I have heard, better audio.

Both represent their genre very well. I own a PS3, specifically for GT5 it has to be said. I really don't want more than one major come console in my room, so I'm happy to wait for my racing game. However, if there was ever a reason for me to own an Xbox 360, FM3 would be it. I'd happily buy that to pass the time, rather than talk trash about it and miss out on a good racing game out of spite.

 

[Seismica]

What's up? Is it not fare to compare the two games at 720p? I think so. You can say what you want about the games - it's all on deaf ears anyway. If you want a racing game, you'll be happy with FM3. If you want a driving game, you'll be happy with GT5. If you are not bothered, and just like car games in general, then you'll be happy with both, and refrain from spurting verbiage about one game vs the other.

These kinds of threads are pointless at the best of times, but made even worse when you get fanboy posts like that one showing so much bias towards GT. Never mind the fact that FM3 has consistent damage on all cars, a superb livery editor, arguably better AI, and from what I have heard, better audio.

Both represent their genre very well. I own a PS3, specifically for GT5 it has to be said. I really don't want more than one major come console in my room, so I'm happy to wait for my racing game. However, if there was ever a reason for me to own an Xbox 360, FM3 would be it. I'd happily buy that to pass the time, rather than talk trash about it and miss out on a good racing game out of spite.

Aye you just highlighted why these comparisons are pointless, because we know very little about the features in GT5. We still havn't seen the 'finished' damage model, we have no further info on visual customisation or online, we havn't been able to test the AI for ourselves, noone thinks to test the AI in the demos... Still no word on Porsche; i guess thats not happening then. PD have been keeping their cards close to their chest, they had better have something really good to show us. The audio doesn't seem to be that bad from recent videos, engine sounds need beefing up a bit (well... a lot ), but the execution/arrangement of the sounds in gameplay and replays is excellent.

I must agree with that second highlighted bit though

 

[TokyoDrift]

Aye you just highlighted why these comparisons are pointless, because we know very little about the features in GT5. We still havn't seen the 'finished' damage model, we have no further info on visual customisation or online, we havn't been able to test the AI for ourselves, noone thinks to test the AI in the demos... Still no word on Porsche; i guess thats not happening then. PD have been keeping their cards close to their chest, they had better have something really good to show us. The audio doesn't seem to be that bad from recent videos, engine sounds need beefing up a bit (well... a lot ), but the execution/arrangement of the sounds in gameplay and replays is excellent.

I must agree with that second highlighted bit though

As you say, we know very little really, and the imbalance in this kind of thread just adds to the pointlessness.

Who cares how good or bad FM3 is? If it's an awesome racing game, and you are a real racing fan, platform will not matter to you, and you will buy and enjoy the game. If it's not such a good game, then you can choose to ignore it and wait. Either way, it should not have any bearing on anyone's decision to buy GT5. It's almost like some people take it personally when something negative is said about GT5, which is, to be quite honest, pathetic. It's just a game people - there to be enjoyed, or not, as you see fit.

 

[Topsu]

Forza's damage modeling makes me want to puke. It also makes me scared; GT's damage might not be much better than that. *Puke*

 

[TokyoDrift]

Forza's damage modeling makes me want to puke. It also makes me scared; GT's damage might not be much better than that. *Puke*

So herein lies your choice. You have practically zero influence on the damage model, so if you don't like it, you can always choose to not buy the game and wait for GT6 to see if that improves things.

 

[iced16]

About the numbers... Forza has 400+ cars and 22 tracks (over 100 with variations and reverses).
GT5 will have 1000+ cars and I'm pretty sure about 40-50 tracks WITHOUT variations (over 70 with variations, and ~100 with reverses).

thanks for correcting me... im sorry for my mistake...

cheers mate!

 

[iced16]

Flawed comparison. PS3 has HDMI and GT5 can output 1080p.

• 
  The most important thing, GT has better physics.

• As for graphics, in this comparison you can tell GT has far better lighting. FM3 uses HDR at FP10 precision. Not sure what GT is using but it is most likely NAO32, or it could be FP16. Either way it is significantly better. Just look at the lighting in the cockpit view.

• Car models are much better in GT.

• Better AA in GT

• Background in these perticular tracks are much different, so you cant really compare. But for now I'll give that to FM3. But other tracks we've seen (Eiger, London, Tokyo etc.) look better then this Forza track.

• Sound, Forza has better sound

• GT has more AF

• GT has better post processing effect's in replays

GT wins this bad comparison.

hehe... you just qouted me... look on page 2 for iced16... you will see... we have same opinions...

cheers mate!

 

[Seismica]

As you say, we know very little really, and the imbalance in this kind of thread just adds to the pointlessness.

Who cares how good or bad FM3 is? If it's an awesome racing game, and you are a real racing fan, platform will not matter to you, and you will buy and enjoy the game. If it's not such a good game, then you can choose to ignore it and wait. Either way, it should not have any bearing on anyone's decision to buy GT5. It's almost like some people take it personally when something negative is said about GT5, which is, to be quite honest, pathetic. It's just a game people - there to be enjoyed, or not, as you see fit.

👍

Forza's damage modeling makes me want to puke. It also makes me scared; GT's damage might not be much better than that. *Puke*

They're both limited by the licenses they have with the manufacturers. Its the damage on the race cars we want to watch out for, because neither is restricted with those.

To be honest i think they both (or will in GT5's case) have rubbish damage. On Forza you crash at 180mph and it looks like you crashed from 30. Plus you get Carbon fibre bending and stuff like that, which i hope PD have thought through - Though it doesn't really matter to me, damage is damage. The PSOM article had some info about crashes in GT5, but it just basically stated what we saw X months ago with the Impreza WRC - which was also rubbish.

Surely we will see some good damage for Nascar at least. They can't implement the rules properly unless damage is implemented properly, with debris falling off etc.

 

[Hypo_Pylon]

Forza's damage modeling makes me want to puke. It also makes me scared; GT's damage might not be much better than that. *Puke*

It's a lot better than no damage at all. I'm happy if GT's damage on production car's is simular to FM3. Damage to race cars in GT5 will be more realistic though by the sound of things (interior deformation, bumpers, doors , bootlids), looking forward to that.

 

[The_Hate_U_Gave]

These kinds of threads are pointless at the best of times, but made even worse when you get fanboy posts like that one showing so much bias towards GT.

I'm not being bias my friend.

• GT is using a superior light format.

• The car models are more accurate. Look at the interior. GT5's car model's have better shaders and other things like head/tail light detail.

• GT5 in 720p has 4xAA. FM3 has 2xAA.

• Like i said can't tell much from the different backgrounds on different tracks.

• FM3 does have better sound.

• Xenos while being a better GPU than RSX struggles with AF for what ever reason. RSX handles AF better.

• The post processing effect's are better in GT's replays. Look at the heat haze and DOF.

nothing biased about this.

 

[Heath_1]

The point is clearly this lol.

 

[TouringDevotee]

I'm not being bias my friend.

• GT is using a superior light format.

• The car models are more accurate. Look at the interior. GT5's car model's have better shaders and other things like head/tail light detail.

• GT5 in 720p has 4xAA. FM3 has 2xAA.

• Like i said can't tell much from the different backgrounds on different tracks.

• FM3 does have better sound.

• Xenos while being a better GPU than RSX struggles with AF for what ever reason. RSX handles AF better.

• The post processing effect's are better in GT's replays. Look at the heat haze and DOF.

nothing biased about this.

While I tend to agree with your the main idea of your view (though we're on opposite sides as far as sound is concerned), the idea of it lacking bias is not reasonable.

Although a detailed study is done with set criteria and parameters (including double blind), is inherently biased. Measures have simply been instituted in an attempt to curb the bias we (through our own bias) can identify.

A judgment by its very nature is a bias. Yes, you've listened to arguments, but by the end you are reporting the lean of your bias and/or the law's. Impartiality of a party is truly a fallacy, a non-sequitur. I have listened to an argument, and therefore will give an unbiased opinion (oxymoron). A judge is unbiased, and yet ends with an opinion.

Just my bit of bias (no slight intended).

 

[Clark]

Nobody ever mentions the main problem.

There is no passion in Forza, it misses the point of liking cars. Trying to much to mimic other things, such as, *shudder* Top Gear, and having 'cool' cars. I think and always will think that T10 have no passion for cars unless it's been on Top Gear or some other tripe (Not Fifth Gear, which is/was brilliant ).

GT has always oozed with KY's passion for cars as art, racing machines, engineering masterpieces etc. It is a celebration of cars, not a game.

 

[Coiler]

This is like STAR WARS vs STAR TREK from the Fanboys movie

 

[GT]

A judge is unbiased, and yet ends with an opinion..

That sounds great, but as a law-student at the University of Leiden I can tell you that a judge is far more complicated that that; if you really feel like discussing this, PM me

other than that, Forza is just a great game; but it's no GT

 

[paulpg87]

that's not gt5 it's a compressed demo.

 

[cletus 669]

Forza's damage modeling makes me want to puke. It also makes me scared; GT's damage might not be much better than that. *Puke*

I have only played FM3 for about 5 minutes in a store and I have been with GT since thi begining, that said, I think that as far as damage and a livery editor go in GT5 both will suck because it is the first time either will be in GT, but PD amd KY had to start somewhere. That is what I love so much about the GT series, after they put a feature/option in they then improve on it until it is something to be proud of. So if it sucks in the beginning( and it probably will) it will be improved upon via updates.

 

[Lucas]

These kinds of threads are pointless at the best of times, but made even worse when you get fanboy posts like that one showing so much bias towards GT.

Moreover, you know how is it going to end: everyone will say GT is better, no exceptions at all. But there's always the need to compare the game to FM3. I wonder why is that? If people believe GT is as good as they think, so awesome of a simulator, compare it then to PC simulators.

Never mind the fact that FM3 has consistent damage on all cars, a superb livery editor, arguably better AI, and from what I have heard, better audio.

From what I have heard and seen on YouTube, I agree with this. There's no need for someone to play the game to know these things.

Both represent their genre very well. I own a PS3, specifically for GT5 it has to be said. I really don't want more than one major come console in my room, so I'm happy to wait for my racing game..

Same here, though I doubt my PS2 could be called major, I bought it for GT4 alone. Tried to play other PS2 games, failed miserably, still playing GT4 because I love it.

However, if there was ever a reason for me to own an Xbox 360, FM3 would be it. I'd happily buy that to pass the time, rather than talk trash about it and miss out on a good racing game out of spite.

Same here. There are two reasons I wouldn't buy a Xbox 360, though:

1 - It isn't available here, in Argentina (Microsoft is well aware of what and what not can we pay for).
2 - I don't want to risk money for a console that has been repeatedly criticized for its high failure rate.

I will definitely buy a PS3 if I get the money to do so, along with GT5. But forget about me buying a wheel and things like that. A PS3 is all I need to play GT5. The wheel and things like that are extras. The same goes to Forza (though I would pay for additional content, both cases). Besides, I have already played GT4 and GT2, I doubt GT5 will disappoint me. I don't doubt Forza 3 is a great game, but I'd rather not take my chances with that console.

I can't get more honest than this.

 

[TouringDevotee]

That sounds great, but as a law-student at the University of Leiden I can tell you that a judge is far more complicated that that; if you really feel like discussing this, PM me

other than that, Forza is just a great game; but it's no GT

Love to have a friendly discussion in PM, so as to not derail the thread.

 

[phil-t]

Nobody ever mentions the main problem.

There is no passion in Forza, it misses the point of liking cars. Trying to much to mimic other things, such as, *shudder* Top Gear, and having 'cool' cars. I think and always will think that T10 have no passion for cars unless it's been on Top Gear or some other tripe (Not Fifth Gear, which is/was brilliant ).

GT has always oozed with KY's passion for cars as art, racing machines, engineering masterpieces etc. It is a celebration of cars, not a game.

FM has passion, it's just different..

GT5 is as you say an extension of KY's passion for cars..

FM3 is more about you expressing your own passion for cars by upgrading/tuning and painting your own cars to express yourself..

I think both seem valid, but I can see that certain people will lean toward one over the other..

I do agree that attention to detail is where PD/KY excel, if that is your thing, it's quite compelling..

 

[Salmonboy]

These threads always make me cringe.

One aspect that is never brought up though, is the community support that FM3 lends itself to. The customisation of the game is fantastic. The storefront is one of the best additions to a game like this and some of the work that can be created in the livery editor is sublime.

Also, the online community is fantastic (apart from T10 messing with the hoppers - but that's another story).

For instance. I'm on the Forza UK site which organises many competitions and racing leagues. I've just signed up to the Yaris Cup, which has been organised by one of the site's founders. We have 40 racers signed up and qualified, split over 5 lobbies (wish there were 16 per race as in GT).

FM3 has options so you can set up qualifying sessions easily (10 seconds between each car launch, sorts the valid times out, etc).

The forum is buzzing about the first upcoming race on Sunday and everyone is up for it. We've all been practising together, pushing each other and having a laugh at the same time. It all gets serious on Sunday (well - sort of )

Each racer has created their own livery for the event too (mine is below ) This helps bring individuality to the event in which all the cars are the same

What I'm trying to say is that it is not enough to have a decent offline mode these days as the community aspect of these games have taken over. It has certainly increased the longevity of FM2 and 3.

I truly hope that GT has a livery editor, decent online mode and community support so the likes of these racing competitions can thrive.

So, it's not about which game has the best damage model, the better interior or superior sound. It's about having fun with like-minded people, making friends and having fun. THAT'S what racing games of 2010 should be about!

 

[TokyoDrift]

Nobody ever mentions the main problem.

There is no passion in Forza, it misses the point of liking cars. Trying to much to mimic other things, such as, *shudder* Top Gear, and having 'cool' cars. I think and always will think that T10 have no passion for cars unless it's been on Top Gear or some other tripe (Not Fifth Gear, which is/was brilliant ).

GT has always oozed with KY's passion for cars as art, racing machines, engineering masterpieces etc. It is a celebration of cars, not a game.

Top Gear is entertaining, so what's wrong with that? Fifth Gear has more information for Joe Average, and that's good too. There is room for both, just as there is room for both games. They take different approaches, and neither is rght or wrong. Still, if Top Gear is so crap, I take it you will not race around the Top Gear Test Track in GT5 out of protest?

GT is not a game? Er, yes it is!

 

[Dan_]

Top gear does make a comedy/motor show, it's not to be taken too seriously, the car reviews, interviews, challenges, all is made to resemble the point of view of the presenters, so if you watch Top Gear, you're watching Hammond, May and Clarkson show, they're the stars, not the cars and because of that, the show is so good, it's a step out from the serious and technical boring reviews, it's all made to demonstrate passion for the automobile, exactly as Kaz do but in a very different way, so there's no show which Top Gear can be compared with.

 

[The_Hate_U_Gave]

While I tend to agree with your the main idea of your view (though we're on opposite sides as far as sound is concerned), the idea of it lacking bias is not reasonable.

Although a detailed study is done with set criteria and parameters (including double blind), is inherently biased. Measures have simply been instituted in an attempt to curb the bias we (through our own bias) can identify.

A judgment by its very nature is a bias. Yes, you've listened to arguments, but by the end you are reporting the lean of your bias and/or the law's. Impartiality of a party is truly a fallacy, a non-sequitur. I have listened to an argument, and therefore will give an unbiased opinion (oxymoron). A judge is unbiased, and yet ends with an opinion.

Just my bit of bias (no slight intended).

Yeah that is what i felt my stance was on the sound, an opinion. You're right, an unbiased opinion is an oxymoron.

Most of my other points are technical facts though. All one needs is a trained eye. You can see the grass in FM3 blurs sooner then GT5's. Most cross platform titles have better AF on PS3, even when the PS3 version of the game is inferior in many other aspects. It's a hardware thing.

Same goes for the lighting, on PS3 you'll find all games either use FP16 or NAO. This is because RSX has on chip hardware support for FP16 and not FP10. NAO32 saves bandwidth on a bandwidth starved console, though it does use more processing power. The 360's Xenos is more or less confined to FP10. It has hardware support for FP10 not FP16. And if you use NAO32 you give up the ability to use the eDRAM for blending.

The other points are known. 4xAA@720p(At 1280x1080p with 2xAA the added resolution basically becomes AA when scaled down to 720p), car detail (Even GT5p cars are more detailed then FM3 when looking at magnified shots of the rims, car lights etc.) Post processing effects. Another technical one. The SPU's are better at handling many little tasks such as these. As evident by Killzone 2.

This is why I though it was a bad comparison. Really there isn't much to compare here. We have a demo with two cars and one track. So the graphics are about all you can compare on that video. As far as graphics are concerned, technically GT5 is easily defined as superior. And if one can't see this, you are either letting your bias cloud your judgment or you don't know what to look for.

 

[Stonemonkey]

I don't like that wierd perspective they put in Forza to increase the impression of speed, it makes the scenery distort as it moves across the screen during cornering.

 

[Lucas]

GT is not a game? Er, yes it is!

I agree, and I hate when people try to make GT look like anything but a game. I also hate when they talk about Kaz perfectionism, which judging by the last four installaments of the series lacking reverse lights, leaves much to be desired. True, reverse lights aren't such an important matter, or at least weren't at the first game, but for someone called a perfectionist, it's a detail that he has obviously missed, and should have been there since the second game.

I don't like that wierd perspective they put in Forza to increase the impression of speed, it makes the scenery distort as it moves across the screen during cornering.

In this particular subject, I had rather not have impression of speed than the one Forza has. It looks odd to me.

 

[Coiler]

And it's sad that forza is just a game ... No one thinks it's something more

 

[Seismica]

Yeah that is what i felt my stance was on the sound, an opinion. You're right, an unbiased opinion is an oxymoron

*Points at the quote in my sig*