GT5p vs GRID (First, and only, take)

[homeforsummer]

 

[750F-RM]

There isn't this incentive in GRID and because of the factors you mentioned, it tends to attract the more agressive, arcade-focused drivers who aren't adverse to a little punting

You've got that right i got punted into a wall and wrecked the other night, race over

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

It's safe to say that 99.998% of the drivers racing on GRiD at the moment have absolutely no clue or even the tinniest notion of an idea of how to race.

Mind you CM encourages that racing philosophy right down the line. The proof is in the game. The game's not about racing, it's about drifting, and smashing the hell out of people. Even on the road courses and such, you can't drive a clean line you'll be too slow. You have to throw the car around, I like doing that so that's ok sometimes, but it would be nice to actually race like, well.... racers. 👍

It's very apparent that CM botched the MP aspect of the game, with little testing of it. There's no way they could have, unless they're complete morons.

Today was the last day on GRiD, I'm tried of the game hanging my PS3, so it's been deleted and that's that. I've never had a game lock a system up so much. I don't think the game will be around long, ya it's fun for a bit and not hard to play, but there are way way too many bugs and just bad code. The last time something with code like this came out M$ released Winbloz ME...

 

[sxboyd]

Well you have me there.... I'm a mere 46...

Not offended on the name thing at all, no worries. I do think it's amusing when other players want to be PSN friends because they think I'm a girl. .[/I])

A mere 46. You are up there where your opinion should garner more respect for you life experience, so you have it now. You also earned it with the sense you made in your replies. Sorry if you felt disrespected by anything I wrote.

Again I wasn't specifying you in general, I have no idea how you drive in GRiD or any other game for that matter. I mean the game in itself is pretty easy to drive, driving single player sure winning everything isn't a hard task. Online in the open 'pits' well that's another story only because it's open season on anyone that wins a lot. .[/I])

The online thing is just as you said. When I get online and get in the zone, there are a few of the guys that will sstay in the races with me and we can do some serious racing. However, there are those nights when I go on line and the number of racers will start at 12, then after I win a few, the number drops again, then again, until there are only 3 or 4 (or sometimes 2) of us racing. On other nights, there is always someone that feels that they have to take you out soe that anyone ELSE can win. It doesn't bother me too much, I just lay back and watch them wreck out, then I can still post a 2nd or 3rd.

The best driving MP driving/racing game I ever played was Viper Racing. It was great. It has great damage, if you ever played that game I'm sure you liked it. It did have issues with SB cards though..[/I])

I will have to look Viper Racing up. I've tried about everything that came out for the PS2; some sucked canal water, some proved to be lots of fun. One of my favorites was Test Drive Unlimited, but it had NO steering wheel support for the PS2. Too bad, because it was a great fun, but I SUCK at driving with a control pad.

👍

Yep, no doubt about that. I put GT5P back on and I thought perhaps my hand/eye internal wiring was shot. The tendency to over-steer everything because of the power-sliding you do in GRiD is pretty funny.

(But you still watched the replays, right? I mean that's pretty cool you gotta admit.)

The first time I went online after driving GRID for a couple of hours, I raced against Joe_Kerr, joeinda808, and TAKATA_DOME. I had to send apologies to all of them. In the first race, I garnered 5 penalties because I was voersteering so badly - it was ugly. In the next couple of races, I managed to punt both of them off into the kittylitter because the braking disstance was so much greater in GT than it was in GRID, then I almost killed my self in the street when I got into my classic 86.5 Toyota Supra and went down the road - oversteered the first curve badly enough to put me into the oncoming lane.

Although the replays may be fun for some, I have never enjoyed that feature in ANY of the racing/driving simulators or arcaders. Just not my thing. The only time I ever go look at my replays are to see where I am makinig driver errors in races or on certain tracks.

Here is hoping that in GT5 that PD makes some great additions/changes to the game. But here is also to hopes that Codemaster brings us some more great racing in the order of TOCA Race Driver and Rally for the PS3. I still keep my PS2 hooked up to my monitor (use common steering wheel for both platforms) so I can continue my quest for 110,000 A-Spec points in GT4 and still enjoy the great racing and record that I have in TOCA Race Driver 2 and 3, plus my Colin McCrae Rally series. I would love to have those on the great high definition support of the PS3.

Oh, by the way. Thanks for NOT flaming me about the age thing, OK?!

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

I will have to look Viper Racing up.

It's for PC only, as far as I know. We were running it on 98se, that's how old it is, well in game life. I always wondered what happened to it, Seirra did it. Much like the 'Avro Arrow' the game was way ahead of it's time.

Viper Racing

The screen shot they have make the game look really bad, it looked way better than that when I was playing.

After playing racing games for the last 10 years I can see that. It had good car physics, the damage system was fantastic, if you ran curbing too hard you'd damage the suspension, and on separate wheels no less! You could drift, 360, the suspension would unload over inclines and bottom out in dips.

It had a weird beachball mode, where you would race around and fire beach balls at the other cars, it was a strange thing to see, but it was fun.

What it did have was an awesome bumper view, where you would see each of your front wheels and suspension as you drove, and they moved as convincingly as it does on the F1 2007 in Prologue.

Yep if you have a PC running 98 find it, I don't think it will run on XP, I seem to remember trying it. And dump your SoundBlast Live card if you have one. 👍

 

[Wolfe]

If you really feel that Polyphony Digital spewed out garbage, and still sold millions of copies, I must wonder how you feel about the fact that Konami's Waste Management sized steaming pile of excrement, aka...EPR, managed to sell any copies at all?

So...you're saying you think EPR is bad, and asking me how I feel about the fact that it sold copies. Old information and a pointless question do not good trolling make. Go practice some more and perhaps you'll have better luck riling me up next time.

I didn't call Codemaster's games driving sims, I called them realistic race titles Subtle but significant difference.

Gotcha. I see what you mean now.

That said, the handling in all of those games is better than GRID.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

About GRID, from the litle I still know of this game, I only think that we're not talking about a "TOCA Race Driver" game anymore. Now, we're facing a game with almost no real world tracks (TRD3 had a full load of them), without pits, fuel and tyre wear, tuning of the cars, a wide range of cars and race series to race (Aussie V8s , Formula 3, Caterhams, GT, Oval Racing, DTM, Classics, etc, etc).

What did we get? Better graphics, sure (that was expected); a few Le Mans prototypes and the Le Mans track with day/night cycle; and ... drifting contests

You could certainly put it that way, but because the TOCA Race Driver series never interested me, I wouldn't. The way I see it, GRID took the TRD formula and streamlined it, removing some of the simulation fluff from what was always an arcade-handling series and replacing the more eccentric racing disciplines with ones that are much, much more relevant to the interests of the average racing game player.

In my opinion, the TOCA Race Driver series always seemed to be confused about what it was. A bad simulator? A staid arcade racer? A freakshow of racing series most people have never heard of? I can appreciate sim-like touches in otherwise unrealistic games, but pit stops, tire wear, and tuning seemed like pointless extras in TRD. Plus, I only ever wanted to drive maybe a tenth of the available cars. I'm all for variety, but not when a game loses focus and becomes oversaturated with "alternatives." GRID isn't all that much better with this, but at least I can enjoy driving pretty much all of the choices.

I now see where you guys are coming from in preferring the older Race Driver games. I just think their physics engines are neither fun nor rewarding. I'm picky about the way my virtual cars handle.

 

[GTP_Cobra]

GRID is for fans of crashes, drifting, and aggressive high-speed racing, and GT isn't. Many GRID fans like to race aggressively, which is fine, because that's partly what GRID is built on. Again, it's how games are designed and marketed to consumers: you know what you're going to get. Don't expect to have tea parties in Grand Theft Auto IV. Likewise, don't expect to find clean and respectful racing in GRID.

I'm sorry but your saying GT is'nt full of crashes and aggressive drivers.... hate to say it but there is, everytime i am on GT5P online theres a noob waiting to punt me off, thats why i aint touched the game for 2 months. theres even a full forum page of its own to the lovely drivers that do haha did you miss it?

 

[igniz248f1]

Grid is the absolute mirror image of DiRT and a glorified NFS. It is flashy in it's presentation which at sometimes looks cool (sorry). But in the end it's "All show, no substance".

 

[JosVerstappen]

I'm sorry but your saying GT is'nt full of crashes and aggressive drivers.... hate to say it but there is, everytime i am on GT5P online theres a noob waiting to punt me off, thats why i aint touched the game for 2 months. theres even a full forum page of its own to the lovely drivers that do haha did you miss it?

every game where you play on public servers has wreckers/punters, even the toughest PC sims.

that's why private servers where invented.

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

But in the end it's "All show, no substance"

Well I don't know if I'd go that far, as I said in one post, there is a lot more to driving in GRiD than first appears. That's why a lot of people have a hard time with it I think, from a driving aspect. It's been so spread around as an arcade racer that people think they can whip the cars around like Mario Kart, not so.

It's too bad it's so messed up though, because it is fun when you're racing with people that know how to drive the cars right, and that can race clean. Out of the oh say 200 races I've had online with it, I'd say I had a dozen maybe, all out good races.

I'll try it again in a few months when some more patches have come and gone and the game doesn't crash out so much. The public MP crap is not a problem, just join up somewhere. I went with Team BEER and they are a bunch of decent people there that do a great job of running good races. Mostly PC based though. 👍

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm sorry but your saying GT is'nt full of crashes and aggressive drivers.... hate to say it but there is, everytime i am on GT5P online theres a noob waiting to punt me off, thats why i aint touched the game for 2 months. theres even a full forum page of its own to the lovely drivers that do haha did you miss it?

Haha no we didn't If you're prepared to leave the game aside just because you've been hit off a few times then that's a shame, but it's been covered in a number of threads before that if you're quick enough then the punters don't pose a problem anyway.

Personally I'm prepared to shrug off the 20% of races where I come across someone a little too agressive for the 80% of races that I really enjoy.

If you'd like to try playing GT5P against some better drivers then feel free to join us from around 7pm and every 15 mins each night in the professional classes - you're sure to find some good, clean racing there.

But I'll defend 91hondawagon in his point - GT is a much cleaner racing environment than GRID.

 

[GTP_ENERGIYA]

GRID is different but,GT5 full version ( 2009 ) will remain the best driving game ever.

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

GRID not worth bying, played the demo. GT5 full version ( 2009 ) will remain the best driving game ever.

 

[91hondawagon]

I'm sorry but your saying GT is'nt full of crashes and aggressive drivers.... hate to say it but there is, everytime i am on GT5P online theres a noob waiting to punt me off, thats why i aint touched the game for 2 months. theres even a full forum page of its own to the lovely drivers that do haha did you miss it?

Full of punters? I don't think so. They are certainly there, but GRID is so much worse. And yes I've read that thread - I've posted in it multiple times. Don't patronize me.

 

[GTP_Cobra]

Haha no we didn't If you're prepared to leave the game aside just because you've been hit off a few times then that's a shame, but it's been covered in a number of threads before that if you're quick enough then the punters don't pose a problem anyway.

Personally I'm prepared to shrug off the 20% of races where I come across someone a little too agressive for the 80% of races that I really enjoy.

If you'd like to try playing GT5P against some better drivers then feel free to join us from around 7pm and every 15 mins each night in the professional classes - you're sure to find some good, clean racing there.

But I'll defend 91hondawagon in his point - GT is a much cleaner racing environment than GRID.

Granted thats your point of veiw but its not just the punting keeping me away, the online rooms are limited at the momment what happened to all the PP races?

Also thanks for the invite too may join you sometime. I dont like the penaltie system either its all backwards why should i be penalized for someone hitting me and getting punted off at the same time im a BIG GT fan but it needs sorting out...

but my point of view is i crash more on GT then grid because of people maybe i expected more from GT same as others did of GRID......

 

[GTP_Cobra]

Full of punters? I don't think so. They are certainly there, but GRID is so much worse. And yes I've read that thread - I've posted in it multiple times. Don't patronize me.

I aint patronizeing anyone just simply stating my point of veiw . if u dont like grid then u dont like grid simple. your in the us right? so u dont get all the europeans from spain, france ect well i do and it aint pretty i can tell you that yeah grids not perfect but lets face it what game is really is there anone out there that dont complain abotu a game?

 

[MustangSVT]

GRID not worth bying, played the demo. GT5 full version ( 2009 ) will remain the best driving game ever.

It hasn't even come out, but it will "remain the best driving game ever". This goes to show that most posts on this forums are indeed from people who are just full of Gran Turismo kool-aid.

 

[sxboyd]

It hasn't even come out, but it will "remain the best driving game ever". This goes to show that most posts on this forums are indeed from people who are just full of Gran Turismo kool-aid.

Huh? Most of us, those with whom I've corresponded have several racing (and other) games that we enjoy beside GT (any version). I personally enjoy the GT series, TOCA Race Driver 2 & 3, Enthusia, Colin McCrae World Rally Series, and several others for the PS2; Forza for the Xbox; GT5, DiRT, and Motor Storm for the PS3; GTR2, GT Legends, Race '07, SEGA Rally Revo, most of the Need for Speed series, and Test Drive Unlimited for the PC.

Most of the comments and repsonses in this thread have been informative and intelligent until THAT remark. Notice that GRID is no longer in my list of games listed - I was so disappointed I took it back and started this thread with my initial posting - still feel the same way. I don't think I will be going out to get another copy of it real soon, but I will try to enjoy those which I still have. By the way. Is there any such thing as GRID Kool-Aid (notice that I capitalized it because it is a TRADE Name like GRID).

 

[neil_1980]

ok well may as well give my 2 pence worth...

I've only played the demo of grid but found it pretty enjoyable for an arcade style racer (which im nit a fan of NFS etc). I found the DTM style race enjoyable and am considering it as a purchase (maybe when its been out a while and can be picked up pretty cheap)

Now as for comparing against GT5 I dont think you really can as they are very different... but one thing that made me chuckle and I guess the reason why Im posting this is people saying that you cant compare as GT5 is a sim and GRID is an arcade...

whilst I agree you cant compare I wouldnt really classify GT5 as a sim yet as the only game id classify as a race sim is Live For Speed.... graphics arnt all that but the physics are VERY good!

Also whats this about codemasters making sims previously? although I agree toca 1 and 2 were very good fun they were a mile off being sims (unless theres another codemasters game people are on about?)

So yeah to conclude personally I think its all about enjoying something for what it is... the GT series I do really like as like a half way house between arcade and sim but I got the feeling from the dmeo that id enjoy grid as a kind of pick up and play for 10 mins at a time kind of game.

 

[Scaff]

ok well may as well give my 2 pence worth...

I've only played the demo of grid but found it pretty enjoyable for an arcade style racer (which im nit a fan of NFS etc). I found the DTM style race enjoyable and am considering it as a purchase (maybe when its been out a while and can be picked up pretty cheap)

Now as for comparing against GT5 I dont think you really can as they are very different... but one thing that made me chuckle and I guess the reason why Im posting this is people saying that you cant compare as GT5 is a sim and GRID is an arcade...

whilst I agree you cant compare I wouldnt really classify GT5 as a sim yet as the only game id classify as a race sim is Live For Speed.... graphics arnt all that but the physics are VERY good!

Also whats this about codemasters making sims previously? although I agree toca 1 and 2 were very good fun they were a mile off being sims (unless theres another codemasters game people are on about?)

So yeah to conclude personally I think its all about enjoying something for what it is... the GT series I do really like as like a half way house between arcade and sim but I got the feeling from the dmeo that id enjoy grid as a kind of pick up and play for 10 mins at a time kind of game.

The people who have classed the Race Driver series as sims are Codemasters themselves....

...its a bit hard to miss a tag line that runs "The ultimate racing simulator", and if you read most peoples posts across the series they consistently complain that CM have moved the series further and further away from any form of sim comparison.

Its Codemasters own presentation of the series that causes these discussions. Even in regard to GRiD thsi has not changed that much, this is CM's COE talking about gaining the F1 licence..

He also emphasised the team's commitment to making the car damage as realistic as possible. But what about the handling? Codies has turned the Colin McRae and Toca franchises, previously known for their hardcore realism, into more arcadey experiences for the mass market.

Cousens says the F1 game will do both. "We want to be able to offer both things within the game, - simulation for the hardcore gamers, but also an arcade experience that you can truly pick up and play. I believe we've balanced that in Grid and I believe we're going to balance it in Formula One."

Link - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3049641&postcount=105

...so CM have still maintained a claim to sim status (to a less degree yes - but its still present) even with GRiD.

Given this its no small wonder that threads like this still pop up.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Hun200kmh]

Scaff, if you just consider PS2 games, TRD3 was a better simulation of racing than GT3, GT4 or Enthusia ever were. Larger grids, evenly matched cars, better AI. You couldn't have better racing in that console.

AND, you could spend endless hours racing online, having great fun. With a maximum of 8 players in each session, but with online features that, so far, remain the best, PS2 and PS3 driving/racing games included.

TRD3 was the last game I played in the PS2, did it (online) up until the day I bought the PS3. And it was the last because, after driving miles and miles in GT3, GT4 and EPR, the only thing that kept me playing was the fun of racing.

 

[Monkey House]

I got GRID as a gift. It's ok as a game, but it IS just a GAME. There's no comparison with the GT series.
The sense of speed seems very exaggerated, too. It can be very confusing.

 

[Barbados246_8]

I also downloaded the demo, its the most horrible thing ive raced from Codemasters.
I kept trying & trying, but finally realised how poor the driving physics were.

I would drive that old arcade game Pole Position before driving that .............


DONT BUY THIS GAME, ITS A WASTE !!!!!!!!!!

 

[MustangSVT]

Huh? Most of us, those with whom I've corresponded have several racing (and other) games that we enjoy beside GT (any version). I personally enjoy the GT series, TOCA Race Driver 2 & 3, Enthusia, Colin McCrae World Rally Series, and several others for the PS2; Forza for the Xbox; GT5, DiRT, and Motor Storm for the PS3; GTR2, GT Legends, Race '07, SEGA Rally Revo, most of the Need for Speed series, and Test Drive Unlimited for the PC.

Most of the comments and repsonses in this thread have been informative and intelligent until THAT remark. Notice that GRID is no longer in my list of games listed - I was so disappointed I took it back and started this thread with my initial posting - still feel the same way. I don't think I will be going out to get another copy of it real soon, but I will try to enjoy those which I still have. By the way. Is there any such thing as GRID Kool-Aid (notice that I capitalized it because it is a TRADE Name like GRID).

GRID is indeed a terrible game. Maybe I overgeneralized with what I said by most and should have said "some".

The worst thing about GRID is how it has damage, but yet no pit stops. Also the fact that the touring cars have the braking and turn-in capabilities of an open-wheeler.

 

[GeoQuin4]

I don't know what wheel you're using, or how small your TV must be. I don't know what your system setup is, but the simple fact of the matter is that I have to completely and totally disagree with you.

First and foremost, you're told SPECIFICALLY that you only have to finish the qualifying race. If you didn't get that, you haven't a clue about the game. Secondly, if you didn't win that race, wheel or not, you shouldn't be racing in the first place. And immediately after your qualifying race, you can either enter GRID World, and race cars you're not familiar with on tracks you've never been on; or, you can go to Race Day and practice on those tracks, with those cars first... I guess you didn't try that.

While I'm racing the cars dip and sway. The braking is a little too responsive, but I have no problem with the handling of the cars. If anything, it's almost more real than GT, at least you can compare your times with real world records on the tracks set by real drivers in real cars. The problem I've always had in GT was that if you set up your Honda Civic exactly the way you set up your Minolta, you'll get different lap times, but your "marks" will stay the same. In GRID, your marks change. This means that if you're in your Boss 302, you have to start braking at a different time than if you're in your Lamborghini... Far more realistic in my opinion.

The loading screens are just that, loading screens. I'd at least like to have something to look at rather than a blank screen with a GT and a circle loading.

The gameplay is phenomenal. Yes, you have to worry about AI getting in your way, getting rough with you, and contacting you. BUT, you don't have to worry about time penalties when you get hit by them, you don't have to worry about time penalties if they push you off the track, or if they slam on the brakes in front of you. GRID offers a variety in the racing that no other game offers without putting traffic on main roads and calling it street racing. In the racing aspect, GT is just plain boring by comparison. In GRID, you can choose from one of 5 difficulty levels, letting you challenge yourself to the max. The only challenge I've EVER gotten from GT was the license tests in GT1, the racing against people of this group with GT3 and GT4, and dealing with the online morons of GT5. And I can't STAND racing online with these people (GT5P). It's horrible. No matter what level you race on, there's always someone that can't drive properly, or is simply hitting you on purpose. Given the "safety's" that PD put in place to take that opportunity away from people, it takes a bit of skill for people to learn how to still screw you over. Another problem with GT5P is the penalty system. It's ****ing HORRIBLE!!! The AI is slow, quite slow... in fact, really slow. Only two races in the entire game gave me trouble when it came to beating the AI. But EVERY Super License race was trouble right from the start. If you went into a turn and a car rear-ended you, not only did you go flying out of the Apex, but you got a collision and short-cut penalty too. If you were going through the Apex of the turn and the AI came in under you and hit you, you'd get a ramming penalty. And since most of this happens in technical turns, just before long straights, it's ten times as aggravating. Not to mention, GT5P seriously lacks car setup as well.

But here's the best parts. Who here has played GT and had little money, went out and bought a car and it couldn't compete in the race? Well, in GRID, that doesn't happen. With each race, they give you a list of cars that qualify for that race, from that screen, you can either purchase a new car, or use one already in your garage. On top of that, they use charts to show how the cars in the list compare to one another. You don't get that in GT. No more buying a Honda Civic that you'll NEVER use again! No wasted money, wasted spending. No racing one race dozens of times just to earn enough money to race others... NONE of it! You race, win money, and move on. You have the choice of racing for other teams, or for yourself once you reach a certain point. Choosing the sponsors (and their objectives), paint schemes, and team colors... A little further on, you get to hire a driver to race with you and earn you even more money. You get to choose the driver based on a chart of skills, so you can compare each one straight by the numbers.

And the Instant Replay and Flashback options or brilliant. Who here hasn't been running a perfect lap only to get hit by the AI and spun out, or slightly run off the track and into the grass? With GRID, you can hit the Instant Replay button, go back to a certain time in the race, and redo that particular spot and go from there. I use it quite a bit with my teammates. If you see them spin out or crash either in front of or behind you, you can hit the Flashback and it gives THEM the chance to correct it! When it comes to handling, the cars are spot on. Like I said before, the car dictates your marks, and thus when you turn. In GT, you just hit your marks on every track the same way with every car and you're perfect. Damage not only looks good, but it also affects the handling and performance of your car. So in essence, you're penalized for contact, but the game itself doesn't decide your penalty, you do. The level options are a great way to challenge yourself. The only way to challenge yourself in GT is by either racing here, or by driving a Civic against a Minolta... The amount of control you have in this game is not only dictated by you, but rewards you as well. Anything from the car, teammate, sponsors, colors, schemes, which races you do, types of them, etc. Oh and one more thing about GT, it doesn't have NEARLY the options that GRID has for racing. In GT, you race other cars and that's as hard as it gets. With GRID, you're forced to learn new styles, rules, etc. In some races, no contact is allowed at all, in others, it's recommended. You don't have to go online to get a challenge, which is wonderful since I can't stand the idiots that purposely crash into you. And your situation ALWAYS changes. In GT, the AI does the exact same thing every race. So if you go into turn 1 and hit a car, you can simply restart and adjust your entry angle from there. In GRID, you can't do that... You have to be prepared or you're simply going to crash. There is variety in the races... and that is really something new to everyone I think... Very much like DiRT in a lot of ways.

The basic fact of the matter is that unless GT5 makes some HUGE improvements, it will be the first GT installment that I don't even pre-order, let alone buy. GRID beats GT in every way, shape or form... Hands down, GT doesn't hold a candle to GRID. But if you like the same old, boring, repetitive crap all the time, GT is the game for you... If you'd like some variety in your racing, GRID is head above the rest.

 

[McLaren]

While I'm racing the cars dip and sway. The braking is a little too responsive, but I have no problem with the handling of the cars. If anything, it's almost more real than GT, at least you can compare your times with real world records on the tracks set by real drivers in real cars. The problem I've always had in GT was that if you set up your Honda Civic exactly the way you set up your Minolta, you'll get different lap times, but your "marks" will stay the same. In GRID, your marks change. This means that if you're in your Boss 302, you have to start braking at a different time than if you're in your Lamborghini... Far more realistic in my opinion.

That's got to be the biggest load of poo I have ever read regarding GRID. You're practically saying GRID is actually realistic in its physics engine that you can set a lap time close to the real world's.

As for your 2nd to last sentence, you have to do the same thing in GT5.

In the racing aspect, GT is just plain boring by comparison. In GRID, you can choose from one of 5 difficulty levels, letting you challenge yourself to the max. The only challenge I've EVER gotten from GT was the license tests in GT1, the racing against people of this group with GT3 and GT4, and dealing with the online morons of GT5. And I can't STAND racing online with these people (GT5P). It's horrible. No matter what level you race on, there's always someone that can't drive properly, or is simply hitting you on purpose.

Really? Because the nightly races held here say otherwise.

The AI is slow, quite slow... in fact, really slow. Only two races in the entire game gave me trouble when it came to beating the AI. But EVERY Super License race was trouble right from the start. If you went into a turn and a car rear-ended you, not only did you go flying out of the Apex, but you got a collision and short-cut penalty too. If you were going through the Apex of the turn and the AI came in under you and hit you, you'd get a ramming penalty. And since most of this happens in technical turns, just before long straights, it's ten times as aggravating. Not to mention, GT5P seriously lacks car setup as well.

Must be your experience, then. I've never had the AI hit me. In fact, they do their best to avoid me when they know they're faster.

But here's the best parts. Who here has played GT and had little money, went out and bought a car and it couldn't compete in the race? Well, in GRID, that doesn't happen. With each race, they give you a list of cars that qualify for that race, from that screen, you can either purchase a new car, or use one already in your garage.

Ugh, pretty sure we had similar lists in all the GTs that said what was & wasn't allowed.

And the Instant Replay and Flashback options or brilliant. Who here hasn't been running a perfect lap only to get hit by the AI and spun out, or slightly run off the track and into the grass? With GRID, you can hit the Instant Replay button, go back to a certain time in the race, and redo that particular spot and go from there. I use it quite a bit with my teammates. If you see them spin out or crash either in front of or behind you, you can hit the Flashback and it gives THEM the chance to correct it!

Oh goody! A system that basically lets you go back in time. Yeah, that's super realistic.

When it comes to handling, the cars are spot on. Like I said before, the car dictates your marks, and thus when you turn. In GT, you just hit your marks on every track the same way with every car and you're perfect.

Simply untrue.

In GT, the AI does the exact same thing every race. So if you go into turn 1 and hit a car, you can simply restart and adjust your entry angle from there. In GRID, you can't do that... You have to be prepared or you're simply going to crash. There is variety in the races... and that is really something new to everyone I think... Very much like DiRT in a lot of ways.

Of course, not. But you can go back in time which is practically the same thing to me.

The basic fact of the matter is that unless GT5 makes some HUGE improvements, it will be the first GT installment that I don't even pre-order, let alone buy. GRID beats GT in every way, shape or form... Hands down, GT doesn't hold a candle to GRID. But if you like the same old, boring, repetitive crap all the time, GT is the game for you... If you'd like some variety in your racing, GRID is head above the rest.

How can GRID beat GT5 in every shape or form when GRID is nothing but arcade racing?

 

[Scaff]

I know that McLaren has already covered a lot of these points, but I'm compelled to comment.

While I'm racing the cars dip and sway. The braking is a little too responsive, but I have no problem with the handling of the cars. If anything, it's almost more real than GT, at least you can compare your times with real world records on the tracks set by real drivers in real cars. The problem I've always had in GT was that if you set up your Honda Civic exactly the way you set up your Minolta, you'll get different lap times, but your "marks" will stay the same. In GRID, your marks change. This means that if you're in your Boss 302, you have to start braking at a different time than if you're in your Lamborghini... Far more realistic in my opinion.

Please for the love of all that is holy tell me that you are joking!!!!!!

The physics engine in GRiD is about as far from a realistic sim as you are going to get, seriously PGR is less arcade like than this. I honestly could spend pages going through everything that is wrong with GRiD, but to summarise in a few bullet points.

• Fixed centre point rotation with no regard for forward velocity or tyre yaw
• Grip co-efficient for the tyres that has NO basis in reality
• Braking distances around a 1/4 of what they should be
• Understeer = non-existent
• Over-driving a car is almost totally impossible and not punished at all

Cornering is one of the biggest jokes in regard to calling this realistic, you don't have to follow a line through the corner at all, you can simply pile in at warp factor six, slam on the brakes at the last second and turn. The car will rotate on the spot to face the direction you want and you simply accelerate away. Every single corner is turned into an angle, the entire concept on apexing a corner is simply gone.

Not to mention, GT5P seriously lacks car setup as well.

As opposed to those detailed and in-depth set-up screens that every car has in GRiD? Post a quick picture of one up again just to remind us exactly what they look like.

And the Instant Replay and Flashback options or brilliant. Who here hasn't been running a perfect lap only to get hit by the AI and spun out, or slightly run off the track and into the grass? With GRID, you can hit the Instant Replay button, go back to a certain time in the race, and redo that particular spot and go from there. I use it quite a bit with my teammates. If you see them spin out or crash either in front of or behind you, you can hit the Flashback and it gives THEM the chance to correct it!

I hate this with a vengeance, its racing for those with an attention span of zero, the ultimate distillation of the 'restart' race option. "Ohh I messed up, don't worry soon fix that". Give Ferrari Challenge a go,seven event series, with 2 x 15 minute races with NO option to even restart a race, never mind an option to rewind it.

A racing sim should not give you the chance to undo your mistakes, it should punish you for them and make you learn. Rewind time = arcade feature.

When it comes to handling, the cars are spot on. Like I said before, the car dictates your marks, and thus when you turn. In GT, you just hit your marks on every track the same way with every car and you're perfect.

I honestly had to check your age on your profile when I read this to check that you were old enough to drive.

The handling of cars in GRiD is about as far from spot on as its possible to get, no car on earth handles in the way they do (and in my line of work I have driven quite a few over the decades).

Your comment on GTs lines and braking points is also nonsense, you most certainly do not drive every track in the same way no matter what the car. However it does force you to look at an evaluate the line, and racing lines do not vary hugely from car to car on the same track. GRiD however allows you to take no notice of the racing line at all, as apexing a corner is simply not required.

Damage not only looks good, but it also affects the handling and performance of your car. So in essence, you're penalized for contact, but the game itself doesn't decide your penalty, you do.

Just about the only thing I agree with you on, but its not enough to either make GRID a sim or redeem itself as a game.

The basic fact of the matter is that unless GT5 makes some HUGE improvements, it will be the first GT installment that I don't even pre-order, let alone buy. GRID beats GT in every way, shape or form... Hands down, GT doesn't hold a candle to GRID. But if you like the same old, boring, repetitive crap all the time, GT is the game for you... If you'd like some variety in your racing, GRID is head above the rest.

Personally if GT heads in the direction GRiD has been taken by CM then I will want nothing to do with it at all, just as many want nothing to do with the F1 game they are now going to put out (for exactly the same reason - they want a sim not an arcade game).


Regards

Scaff

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

McLaren & Scaff have already done a great job of dissecting and exposing GeoQuin4's unique take on these games, but the reality is that there are a lot of people like GeoQuin4, who , while they may not admit it, prefer arcade like racing games, what with all the "excitement" they can offer with their exaggerated gameplay, and over the top crashes, and you know what, there is nothing wrong with really enjoying those kinds of games.

However, as pointed out by both McLaren and Scaff, and many others, you really do a disservice to the validity of your own opinion when you make such absurd comments, and *exaggerate or make up facts in order to support your opinion.

* Something unfortunately many of the same small cast of characters do when criticizing GT over and over again... including GT5P although curiously they only have XBL tags, but no PSN tags... hmmm possible motivation?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there is plenty about GRiD to enjoy, and for those that prefer that style of game, then it is equally understandable why many gamers will prefer GRiD over GT5P. It also doesn't hurt GRiD being a multiplatform game that those who don't own a PS3 but do own a 360 can enjoy as well. 👍

The important thing to remember is that while based on personal preference, you can prefer GRiD and another person can prefer GT5P, and you would be both right. The problem occurs when someone exaggerates and or falsify facts in order to make their personal preference more meaningful. Doing so not only makes your opinion less meaningful to those who know better, but it can also mislead others who may not know any better and may very well regurgitate the same false info in other posts, and this is how false facts get perpetuated through this and other forums... and is also why the first rule in GTP's AUP is:

You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

While the vast majority of GTP members abide by this rule, which is one of the reasons this place is a good deal better than most forums, especially when it comes to getting accurate and informative information, and the civil discussions that often come from such posts. However, and unfortunately, there is also a small group of GTP members who often disregard this rule, and often promote heated and uncivilized arguments.

[/soap box]

 

[homeforsummer]

I've argued pretty hard in favour of GT5P in this topic so far, but I honestly can't add anything to the above three posts. GeoQuin4's post, be it his opinion or his genuine belief, was way off the mark, and doesn't show much evidence of having read the previous twelve pages of discussion on the GT5P vs. GRID debate...

 

[MustangSVT]

I can understand someone liking GRID over GT5P. It's a much more complete game and offers a lot of racing action. However, trying to say GRID is even remotely accurate is misleading. There's no way it has accurate physics. I'd go as far as saying that Race Driver 3/2006 which is not really accurate physics by any means had more accurate physics than the drifty physics of GRID.

That being said, I wouldn't say at the end of the day physics make the whole game. I liked PGR2 a lot more than a LOT of racing games. More than Forza 2 even, more than PGR3 and PGR4, and more than Gran Turismo 4 and GT5 Prologue. I also like Live For Speed more than any other racing game ever made. So my taste is pretty varied. But yea, GRID is not realistic. The only reason I don't like it is because it's just too un-realistic while it's trying to pretend it is, also how it doesn't have pit stops, yet it has damage (i guess they force you to use the re-wind thing, which I don't really like).