GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

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Yep Tacoma, surprisingly. ;) Easier to drive, faster out of the corners, generally feels more balanced overall. Plus you get to sit up higher than in the RSX and get a better view of the track. Old farts with poor vision and depth perception such as myself need that.
 
The Acura RSX is essentially a rebadged Honda Integra DC5. It's a plain looking car, almost like it's a depressed car. Under the hood there's 200 HP and a generic slow car exhaust note. Looks are just as bland, however, driving it was pretty nice. The front wheel drive helps it take corners with little understeer. Still though, it's a plain car to me.

Then you have the X-Runner. This is a street version of the Tacoma, packing a 246 HP engine and a body kit to throw into the mix. On the track it was fun, having just enough power to get tail happy yet be able to control it. Naturally, you'd think that the car is faster than a truck, but think again. This week, my vote goes to the Tacoma.

Both cars tested on Snetterton, CS tires, no aids except ABS 1.

RSX: 2:08.319
Tacoma: 2:06.501

And the votes:

RSX: 0
Tacoma: 6

And the winner is.....

003-toyota-tacoma-x-runner.jpg

The '04 Tacoma X-Runner!!!

Congrats to @GT_Alex74 for setting a winning time of 2:06.776 in the RSX and for setting a winning time of 2:05.449 in the Tacoma! Before we go any further, let's take a moment to remember the victims of the Orlando shooting on Saturday night.​
 
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This week I chose two cars that with a body style that seems to be getting more and more popular these days, hot hatches! This week's duel is.....

2013-ford-focus-st-photo-435051-s-1280x782.jpg

The 2013 Ford Focus ST

vs

4.jpg

The 2004 Honda Civic Type R (EP3)!!!

Two hatchbacks, two front wheel drives. This will be the final duel before the Duel of the Year, so nominations are now open. Choose from week 1-52 to have back at it again in battle. Nominations will be accepted only by conversation/PM. But for now, take these two for a spin and let me know what you think! This week's trial will be at Autumn Ring.​
 
Sorry to miss the last one. I got half way into it but got stumped at the names... The Tacoma instantly conjured up a picture of Galloping Gertie... (What?)
Narrows%201%20hanging.jpg

(Famous Suspension Bridge over the ... Tacoma Narrows (Near Seattle - North West USA) which collapsed 75 or so years ago.
The RSX - well the name was just to rude for me to do my usual hack job of the spelt out name from the letters.

Sorry chaps!
 
One thing about that Focus : PoDi totally messed up the gearbox in-game. In real life, that car has a different final drive ratio for 5th and 6th gears (in fact on those gears, the final drive used depends on the throttle input), but the game doesn't take that into account so it runs 5th and 6th on the slow final drive ratio only.

You can kinda fix that in GT6 though by installing a custom gearbox with the following settings :

DTWo4Gu.jpg


Trial Mountain was run on GT6 default, the Autumn Ring TT will be as well (shouldn't make use of 5th gear on this track anyways), but I'll use this fixed version on my custom track test ;)
 
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I need to go try those settings for the Focus ST and give Mid-Field another run like, now.

Edit: It won't let me get 3rd through 6th to be the same numbers in the settings. I think it's a translation thing.
 
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Yeah, I had to do a bit of shenanigans to manage to put those numbers in. Don't remember if tweaking the max speed preset was what did the trick or if there was more stuff involved. If playing with the preset is not enough, get back to default, and move the gears and final to the left or the right before changing the preset again. But I don't remember spending that much time to do it.
 
Well PD's screw ups aside, I'm running my cars stock as they are in GT6 rather than real life. After all, that's what my voting is based on.

Hot hatches. Don't recall a duel where we've had the Focus, but I recall the last time we've had a Civic in here, it didn't fare well. Let's see how it goes this time around.

Autumn Ring Trial:
Focus - 1:34.058
Civic - 1:35.602

Rotenboden Trial:
Focus - 1:58.997
Civic - 1:57.021

SSR5 Trial:
Focus - 1:43.460
Civic - 1:43.727

Well, the primary reason the Focus won is because of its power advantage over the Civic. The Focus was frustratingly numb in the corners. Not to mention, if you went up the first chicane odd on the Rotenboden, the tires would furiously spin and smoke, destroying your chance at getting a decent lap. (That was on lap 2 for me.) Meanwhile, the Civic was loads more lively. It felt fun going in corners, much unlike the '08 model that we tested a while back.

My subjective vote would go to the Civic, but as my true vote is centered on which one is faster, my vote would go to the Focus, as it won two out of three of the trials.
 
The FWD on both cars is quite anoying.. You really need to watch corner entry speed and stay off throttle until the car is pointing in the right direction :irked:

The clear winner of this duel is the Ford Focus ST '13. In my opinion everything about it is better: looks, sound, speed, handling, FFB, cockpit view, customizing, colors.. you name it. Hmm okay.. third gear might be a bit to long, and 5th and 6th are obviously messed up. Can be rectified, but then you have to deal with the gearbox wine.

Enjoy Le Mans this weekend :cheers:
 
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Hey everyone, I've received only one nomination for duel of the year. All you have to do is choose one duel from the past year (listed in the OP) and send your nomination via conversation. Posting nominations here will not count.
 
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Cowboy
Hey everyone, I've received only one nomination for duel of the year. All you have to do is choose one duel from the past year and send your nomination via conversation. Posting nominations here will not count.
Click to expand...
💡 Tip.. I just noticed the list of past duels in the OP..:rolleyes:
 
Ford Focus vs Honda Civic

Some front wheel drive fun with teammate bashing corner exit Understeer as standard - As approved by five time Canadian Grand Prix winner Lewis Hamilton.


Honda Civic Type R (EP) 2004
7th Generation
Paint Chip Selection... hope you like Championship White.
23.310cr - 414pp
1998cc - 212bhp/20.6 torques
Front wheel drive/Naturally Aspirated
4135x1695x1430mm
1190kg - 61:39 - comfort soft
From Anglo-Saxon hill fort of Swindon in Engerlandshire

Ford Focus ST 2013
3rd Generation
6 chips (Oxford White)(White... Oxford - I always thought Navy Blue was Oxford...)
24,500cr - 429pp
1999cc - 252bhp/34.2 torques
Front wheel drive/Turbo
4361x1824x1483mm
1462kg - 54:46 comfort soft
From the French built fortress of Saarlouis ... in Germany.
- This Focus celebrates the towns 333rd anniversary (It didn't, but it should have.)

-------------

On paper the Ford has a big 15pp advantage - It should see off the Japanese hot hatch, shouldn't it?

*** Round 1 *** Price ***

23,310 Kazulas - Honda
24,500 Kazulas - Ford

The Ford is destroyed by the Honda in terms of price... with that 1,190 kazula though I can't even afford to get some green paint.

Honda - 10
Ford - 9​

*** Round 2 *** Power ***

Honda - 212bhp
Ford - 252bhp
40 Horses is quite a margin. That's like 160 extra horse legs!

Honda - 9 (19)
Ford -10 (19)​

*** Round 3 *** Weight ***

Honda - 1190kg
Ford - 1462kg

372kg = ... wow That is almost as much as I can bench press... almost. But the Ford is much more evenly balanced at 54:46 compared to the 61:39 of the Honda.

Honda - 10 (29)
Ford - 7 (26)​

*** Round 4 *** Is it one of those horrible wonky front wheel drive cars? ***

Honda - Yes
Ford - Yes

Devastating double knock down. Both cars are rocked hard and on all fours trying to get up from the canvas like a dodgy Rocky Film.

Honda - 6 (35)
Ford - 6 (32)​

*** Round 5 *** Displacement matters ***

Honda - 1998cc
Ford - 1999cc

So close, I don't really think a judge could split them if you poured the capacity out.

Honda - 10 (45)
Ford - 10 (42)​

*** Round 6 *** Parking in the old city of ... Baku ***

So which car is the most practical for tight city streets?

The Honda is a sleek slim short car - and can slide into any parking spot with minimal hassle.
The Ford is a longer and a much fatter car that would struggle to fit in a supermarket space that the R-Type can flash into. (Too much local chocolate eh?)

Honda - 10 (55)
Ford - 8 (50)​

*** Round 7 *** Stunning Range of Colours ***

The Honda has one to the Fords six.

If you like white, then all is even, but the Ford has five extra colours in a good range.

Honda - 7 (62)
Ford - 10 (60)​

*** Round 8 *** Meaningful name? ***

This round tripped me up so badly last week, I didn't post the review. (You can thank me later!) -
But which name is best? Most historical, least cringeworth cars.

These are lucky bag words with a Latin origin. BUT these are cars that need to appeal to the masses (nerve stapled drones) -

But what do these words evoke in your head...

82 saavik.jpg (1982 Honda Saavik, yesterday)

Civic - Some Vulcan officer in a Star Trek Movie?(Saavik) A Stinky wild cat from Africa? (Civet) - Nope it belongs to the City...(Boring)
Focus - 70's Dutch Prog Rock Band... Famous for such songs as...Sylvia, House of the King and Hocus Pocus.

I have to say the Dutch Prog Rock angle wins this, Classical Flutes and Electric guitars - cool as flared trousers and a kipper tie! - Though classy Kirstie Alley with pointy ears is nice - Almost a win/win. (Don't mention Kobyashi Maru to the Lieutenant, she gets all prissy.)

Honda - 9 (71)
Ford - 10 (70)​

*** Round 9 *** But what about that extra name? ***

Of course, these two cars are the upper echelon of front wheel drive tomfoolery.

Type-R vs ST

Type-R conjures up another Japanese Icon. R-Type - which was a sweet sideways scrolling shoot 'em up back in the 80's (Not the 1880's!) (Gradius/Nemesis/Salamander - you youngsters!)

Of course the ST has the problem of that pesky Diesel engine option...the STD... you should go to the doctors with that!

Type-R wins... quickly onto the next round!

Honda - 10 (81)
Ford - 8 (78)​

*** Round 10 *** Home town History ***


Fighting for Ford the town of Saarlouis

Home town of Marshal Ney, Marshall of France who lost at Waterloo with his pal Napoleon, to the Duke of Wellington...
(The Iron Duke saved the English Pint from the tyranny of the Napoleonic Metric System, huzzar!)
(As a result of the 1815 Treaty of Paris, Saarlouis became the property of Prussia.)​

Fighting for Honda the town of Swindon

Mentioned in the doomsday book
Home of the "Magic Roundabout"
Built in not just the same town but the very same factory as... the Supermarine Spitfire!
It would amaze me if they didn't put a little Union Jack on the car some place...​

A Win for the Swindon!!

Honda - 10 (91)
Ford - 8 (86)​

*** Round 11 *** Track Test - Event 1 - Handling/Fun rating ***
Seasonal Track Day Midfield Raceway

The Focus felt odd to drive. The gearbox felt sweet as a nut until 4th passed the baton to 5th... and then we were in the low rev zone! - Speeds under 110mph were great fun but over that and it felt like the car was turned into a dribbling zombie. The Handling was much better than I expected from the layout (Comfort tyres, nearly 1500 Kilo-napoleons in weight and a turbocharged engine. but understeer was not in your face.

I had a dash in a PD scaled 6 speed gearbox... a bit more rowing the car about but not having a 5th gear that bashed its forehead on over door lintel was a refreshing change.

---
Honda. I just looked at the stats as I turned off the training wheels (ABS, TCS, Active Suspension) - And the huge weight over the front axel gives me a reason to be scared...
...But on the track it was fine. The Engine felt great, high revving, consistent torque. The Lack of a comedy gearbox really added to the driving fun in comparison to the Focus.

Actually had a good deal of fun in these two cars, but the stand out things were the better (Noise and revs) engine in the Honda and the Worse gearbox in the Ford.

Honda - 10 (101)
Ford - 9 (95)​

*** Round 12 *** Track Test - Event 2 - Lap dancing skills.***

1m28.1 (7m48.0) (Focus at historic Midfield) - 1m27.3 (7m46.6) (6 speed gearbox)
1m27.7 (7m47.6) (Civic at historic Midfield)

I judge my races bone stock, so the trick gearbox time from the Ford has to go. Very close between the pair in my ham fisted hands. I probably left more on the table with the Focus, but it did understeer hard if you pushed it hard into the brake zone, I felt the Honda was a bit more forgiving easier to place, less all or nothing in comparison to the Focus - and that is due to the low weight and the more refined engine. (And a dominant 5th gear ratio!)​

Honda - 10 (111)
Ford - 9 (104)​


*** Round 13 *** Dashing good looks ***

Tough to compare as one is much younger.
The Hocus Pocus has an evil vacant eyed ghostly front end, sunroof, four doors, I quite like the rear lamp cluster shape and the single centreline exhaust - Like a short fat tubby offspring of a Murceilargo?

--
Civic. (Odd having a car named after "belonging to a City" that is, in fact, made in a Town.) The car is much less fussy to look at than the morose looking Focus.

Neither are stunners. the Civic is a boxy econobox and the Focus is an even more bulky econobox. But I think the time difference has gifted the Ford a few more styling good things than the rather simple looking Civic.


Honda - 8 (119)
Ford - 10 (114)
-----------
savvik 04.jpg

Final score ::: Honda 119 - Ford 114​

Ryk recommends the Honda Saavik Type R from 2004.
 
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Lap times (comfort softs, ABS 1, oil change on the custom track only) :

Trial Mountain

Honda Civic Type-R EP3 '04 >>> 1:43.836
Ford Focus ST '13 >>> 1:44.159

Autumn Ring online TT

Ford Focus ST '13 >>> 1:32.265
Honda Civic Type-R EP3 '04 >>> 1:32.725

Custom track (same as the one used for the Elise / SLK duel)

Ford Focus ST '13 >>> 4:16.748 (corrected gearbox)
Honda Civic Type-R EP3 '04 >>> 4:17.135


Those cars are a nearly perfect match for each other. The custom track hierarchy is down to the fact I had a better run in the Focus, since I ran it in second there, but I truly think it's a draw there. Although with the stock GT6 messed-up gearbox, the Focus would have lost at least one second, if not more.

The power advantage of the Focus over the Civic only shows at higher speeds. Acceleration on the 3 or 4 first gears is actually pretty similar between those cars, and the Honda has a small advantage when it comes to traction, which makes it generally faster on corner exits. The Ford has a bit more trouble getting the power down the road with the front wheels turned so you have to feather the throttle a bit more.

But the Focus feels sharper and more responsive on entries, even though it can feel slower to react to direction changes sometimes. But it seems like feeling doesn't always reflect which one is faster through one specific corner on this duel, as I've seen the Civic go noticeably faster through short tight kinks while the Focus is able to carry a bit more speed through some longer high speed turns. I concluded that basically, the Ford is better on corners you go through with the throttle lifted, while the Honda is better on corners you can tackle keeping some throttle in a good part of it.

The club time trial on Autumn Ring was a good judge after two comparisons that really didn't allow me to determine clearly which is really the fastest. Despite the time difference being not that big again, it felt pretty obvious the Focus is more at ease on this track. I think the difference is all made in the first section, where the front's sharpness really helps going into that double chicane after the left hander, and tackle the right hander which follows. And it naturally likes to go there without much throttle input, while you don't really know how much throttle to give to the Civic here. Everywhere else on this track, they feel either pretty equal, or a slight advantage to the Honda, but that first section is a sweet spot for the Ford.

The rear on the Honda is too planted, having it a bit looser would help the car to be even better. The Focus on the other hand would mainly need a bit more traction (larger front tyres and / or a different LSD setup), but its chassis feels a bit superior to me, considering it weights quite more than the Civic. But the high revving engine with a shorter gearbox in a lighter car suits my philosophy better, and that K20 is the best naturally aspirated inline four ever fitted in a car...

Although corner entries make me want to vote for the Focus, I always had asomething for K20 engined cars since the day my brother bought an EP3 (early 2005, though it was an european spec without all the interesting changes the Japanese made for their own market). In the end, my vote goes to the Civic mainly for the performance to PP value (and also because it increases the odds of a draw, which would be deserved in this duel :P )
 
I'll start with the Focus. The middle child of the Focus family (between full stock model and RS model), this one puts out a modest 250 HP. I've rode in a Focus before, but that wasn't the ST version sadly. But anyways in GT6, it's kind of a numb car to drive. Looks are good nonetheless, but the driveability is tough, especially in corners. A lot of turns will greet you with understeer followed by squealing front tires because front wheel drive. However, this car proved to be faster than the opponent on the trial run, so how did the rival compare?

The Civic. The EP3 isn't the most common Civic out there. When one thinks of one they think of the EK, EG, etc. This car also is a standard model, and for some people it leaves the question of driving it out the window. This was a top of the line Type R model, and did Honda work magic on this! This was much more lively, more fun, energetic and easier to drive. It is a little slower than the Focus, having 216 HP, but in the end, the Civic gets my vote.

Both cars tested at Autumn Ring, no aids except ABS: 1.

Focus: 1:33.614
Civic: 1:34.107

And the votes:

Focus: 2
Civic: 3

And the winner by a narrow margin is.....

car_photo_565258.jpg

The '04 Civic Type R!!!

Congrats to @Draggon for setting a winning time of 1:30.542 in the Civic and for getting a winning time of 1:29.851 in the Focus! 52 weeks down, so you know what that means. 2016 Duel of the Year will be posted sometime today, so if you want to submit a last minute nomination, now's your chance!​
 
Well here we are, one year into this thing. When I first made the thread I didn't expect much out of it, maybe a couple of likes or comments about which car people choose. But I was wrong. From the very first week this thread has had a spot in the GT6 forum, and essentially succeeded the Forgotten Cars Thread, if you remember that. Some of my friends on here came from chatting in this thread, like @ThrasherDBS, @Ryk, @MrWaflz55 and @GT_Alex74. Anyways, thanks everyone for helping keeping this thing going and without your support this would be nonexistent. Cheesy speech aside, let's get to this brawl. I received a notification from a person who's nomination happened to be one of my personal favorite duels on here. This week's duel and the 2016 Duel of the Year is, drumroll please...........

maxresdefault.jpg

The 1991 Acura NSX LM Race Car

vs

19329_HD_ren2008meganetrophy_64BD056B.jpg

The 2011 Renault Mégane Sport Trophy!!!

This week's time trial will be at the Nürburgring 24hr variant with 12 minutes on the clock, so make your one lap a fast one!​
 
Congrats on 1 year of Dueling!

This was the first time I have driven both the NSX and the Megane and I must say I was looking forward to this duel based on the stats of the cars, and the track to be driven! I was a little worried they might be tricky to drive because they are MR drivetrains.

So I jumped in the NSX first and I was pleasantly surprised at how well that car drove! Surprised, because I was expecting some sort of snap oversteer, which MR drivetrains seem to be prone to. However, it sticks to the road, hardly ever steps out, never understeers, the steering is nicely balanced, the suspension absorbs curbs easily and stays planted in the corners, and the brakes are pretty effective. It basically drives like a racecar is supposed to! It does everything very well, the only thing that would improve this car is more power, or a better driver :sly:

Next up was the Megane, and the first thing I thought after bouncing off the first set of curbs was "is this thing FF?" because when the front wheels lifted off the ground, it sure felt like there was power going to them because of the torque steer when they came back to the ground. In the end, I guess the suspension is so stiff that the the front and back wheels were off the ground on the side that hit the curb? Either way, the Megane can not drive over curbs and maintain its line. Consequently, I had to alter my prefered lines through a number of corners :banghead: Overall, the Megane drove fairly well, its a bit more tail happy than the NSX, but the steering and the brakes were fine. Not sure if it was down on power compared to the NSX but it did have a 6th gear so over the course of a long track like the 'ring those gear extra gear changes to keep the Megane in its powerband add up. But what really hurt its time was adjusting for not being able to run over curbs.

I drove each car for a total of 3 laps of the 'ring (1 red outlap, 1 timed practise lap, and then started the time trial for 1 lap). I figured that would be the best way to get used to the cars without having to spend all day doing it - 30 mins in each car. My first lap had 2 spins in the NSX and 4 in the Megane. I was trying to find how much to push and getting familiar with how they drove. 2nd lap I was more conservative but still pushed a bit and only spun 1 in the NSX and 2 times in the Megane. I realized that I couldn't touch any curbs in the Megane at the end of that lap. On my final Timed Lap, I was even more conservative and put in a consistent effort, but not being able to practice Not hitting the curbs in the Megane, my lap time was slower.

I am voting for the NSX because I love how it drives, and the Megane is a great car, just not as great as the NSX!
 
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Renault Sport Mégane Trophy '11
3.5L
359 hp / 7,500 rpm
288 ft-lb / 5,000 rpm
955 kg (2,105 lbs)
511 pp

Acura NSX LM Race Car '91
3.0L
373 hp / 7,800 rpm
264 ft-lb / 6,300 rpm
1,045 kg (2,304 lbs)
515 pp

The Renault has great torque. I could power out of most corners a gear higher than in the NSX. But it required much more patience and skill. That's where the NSX shines. It makes me feel great whenever I drive one. Never a bad time. Closest I'll ever come to having a NSX is the MR2 Spyder. That's not a bad car to settle down with either...Anyway...

Lap times at Mid-Field on CS tires, ABS-1, Grip set to Low.




It's been a while since I drove these two, so I may give them a try tonight since it's Friday and I'm 32 and don't party anymore, but I do have work at 8am tomorrow :indiff:

Congrats on the 1 year milestone, Cowboy! I'm glad to have participated in this awesome thread of yours 👍:dopey:
 
I'm 41 and just came home from a party :cheers:

Unfortunately I've injured my left arm and probably won't be able to complete this duel. I did drive the NSX last thursday and had a hard time keeping it on track. For me it wasn't easy to drive at all, the back end kept trying to overtake the front end. Would need to spend more time with it to understand it better..

Congrats Cowboy on the 1 year anniversary of this thread. It's been good fun! :gtpflag:
 
The 2016 Duel of the Week Awards

gold-trophy.jpg

"Hey Cowboy, isnt this a bit much?" Well, in my opinion, no. I had to figure out a way to give back to you guys, so why not a little awards ceremony! You guys have put plenty of work and typing and testing into this thing, so this what I'm doing to give back. Hope you guys aren't real picky on the material of the awards, they're plastic spray painted gold. Besides, the kids over on the Beater or Sleeper thread do this every year, so.....

Most Creative Member
@Ryk

Hardest Working Member(s)
@Ryk and @ThrasherDBS

Best New Member
@pretend racer

Friendliest Member
@everyone

Fastest member
@Draggon

Most Suggestive Member
@MidFieldMaven

Most Opinionated Member
@ThrasherDBS

Best Quote
"Listen up you absurdly large vertically-placed rectangular prism, Aunt Jemima would never associate with a conversion kit-car as dastardly as that! How dare you?!?!?!?!?!?" by @MrWaflz55

Darwin Award
@XtremeEdward​
 

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