GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Arp 273

    Arp 273

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    Thanks Cowboy for the extention :p and congrats on your graduation :cheers:

    Last week i decided to stop using the driving line and abs. Probably not so smart to quit both at the same time :banghead:. However, for casual races with the AI it's fine to have a handicap and its great fun actually learning the tracks. Without abs differences between cars are enhanced so its good for car comparisons too.

    I cheated a bit and put CS tires on the CRZ as the Punto had them aswell.. Liked both cars (looks, sound, handling) so it took some time to find something that would tip the scale. Found it on a 5 lap race on one of my CM tracks that has some steep slopes. Going up in the CRZ I could only see its (fantastic) dashboard, not the road, which would have been nice considering it was the first time on this track without driving line.. Even worse.. the CRZ was very slow uphill, rpms kept dropping no matter what gear, even more so after the hybrid battery was depleted. The Punto had none of these issues and was happily purring to the top.

    So based on that my vote goes to the Abarth Grande Punto '09

    edit: I keep choosing the CRZ though to race the AI.. On a track with steep downhill the battery can be recharged. Nice extra dimension to manage the charge using lift&coast. Plus painted in graphite and decked out with front splitter and rear spoiler it does look very cool! So now I'm torn but not enough to change my vote.. I think..:boggled:
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  2. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The Punto. Interesting name isn't it? When you hear it though, you know it's a Fiat. But this one though is the V12 twin supercharged version, or to be realistic, the Abarth version. I never cared much for the Punto, though after driving it in NFS MW I recognized it a bit more. In GT6 it's a cute little car, with the signature white paint and red stripe. I used it in the 350PP quick match last summer and it fared somewhat OK. It's got a common FF character on the track, powering on the straights while understeering in the corners. I dont hate it though, and it's a car that maybe a beginner racer would consider buying.

    Then you have the CR-Z. The world's first hybrid sports car, it has a common look of most Hondas. It has a very strong resemblance to the Insight of the late '90s and has some technology to go with it. This too was never cared much by me, though when I noticed the Spoon version I had a thing for it. It's a nice car to drive though, having a tame attitude in the corners but suffering with acceleration. Another downside is that the hybrid battery........thing doesn't last forever, and on a track like Trial Mountain you'll only get two laps in before you run out. This car I dont hate as well, it's just that I'm going to choose the Punto this week.

    Both cars tested at Trial Mountain Reverse, no aids except ABS: 1, comfort soft tires.

    Punto: 1:50.830
    CR-Z: 1:51.294

    And the votes:

    Punto: 5
    CR-Z: 2

    And the winner is.....

    abarthgpuntodr_1_560.jpg
    The '09 Grande Punto!!!

    Congrats to @GT_Alex74 for getting the winning time of 1:50.473 in the Punto and for getting a 1:50.928 in the CR-Z!​
     
  3. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    We've reached week 50! Literally seems like yesterday since I started this thread and it has come a long way since, so thanks for the great times guys. This week we're speeding things up, and upping the price as well. This week's duel is.....

    one77-04.jpg
    The 2011 Aston Martin One-77

    vs

    2011-pagani-huayra_100338530_l.jpg
    The 2011 Pagani Huayra!!!


    FR vs MR, Britain vs Italy, it should be a good battle as usual. This week's time trial will be at Spa Francochamps, though the time trial won't be up until tomorrow because I'm not near my PS3 today. Anyways, let the battle begin!​
     
  4. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Good way to kick off the 50th duel! Can't wait to see how these two spendy supercars stack up against each other.

    And in another two weeks, we get to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of this whole duel thing. Hopefully we get an equally good duel then as well.
     
  5. girabyt3

    girabyt3 Premium

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    Happy 50th week!!
     
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  6. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Time trial is now up.
     
  7. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    And a few days later, here's an actual review.

    Some mad hypercars up for a face-off this week. Each have their own problems, one moreso than the other.

    Spa Trial:
    One-77 - 2:35.625
    Huayra - 2:30.530

    Rotenboden Trial:
    One-77 - 1:44.454
    Huayra - 1:44.923

    SSR5 Trial:
    One-77 - 1:30.294
    Huayra - 1:28.565

    The Huayra is clearly the better car, though with all the elevation changes on Rotenboden, it wound up losing that trial because I couldn't be consistent and fast. Both cars require you to be very careful, considering their high power outputs and propensity to throw themselves all over the place. Other than that, the Huayra definitely has more PP than the One-77 for a reason.

    Pagani wins this one.
     
  8. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Does it have dark green paint? Does it have right hand drive?

    Aston Martin 177

    1,320,000 kazulas - 580pp 77 made
    7312cc V12 749bhp/76.5torques - 6 gears
    1630kg 48:52
    FR / Sports Hard Tyres
    4601x1999x1222mm
    0/0 Magic Aero
    7/35/15 Diff
    248mph (Unaided top speed) - 4m52.8 Route X time (B spec)​

    6 chips (Black.White, silver/grey, dark red, orange brown and a light blue)

    Huayra '11

    1,350,000 kazulas - 618pp 100 made
    5980cc V12 Twin Turbo 719bhp/102 torques - 7 gears
    1350kg 45:55
    MR / Sports Hard Tyres
    4605x2036x1169mm
    80/200 Magic Aero
    7/30/15 Diff
    256mph (Unaided Top Speed) - 4m35.8 Route X time (BSPec)​

    Chips options loads!
    Naked Carbon Fibre with Black bits with Tan leather trim
    or
    12 other colours which you can have with a black leather interior and a few bits of Black trim or a consistent outer body shell and tan leather goodness inside.

    I picked... The Naked Carbon Fibre one... I thought it was just black, Now I look like an extra from a Fast and Furious Film, fiddlesticks!

    La Sarthe run out
    4m15.6 - 1-Seventyseven
    4m06.2 - Huayra

    Aston was a tough drive. Loads of power, loads of speed, not alot of grip or braking strength. So you can enter a brake zone very quickly but find the front tyres get pulverized by the huge weight of the car and the high speed.
    The Pagani was much faster to lap a track with and fractionally easier to balance in the brake zone.

    I looked at the stats and the Huayra has lots of advantages over the Aston, less weight, much more torque, magical aero (If I ran ABS I guess I would get even more of an effect of the little canard winglets.)

    Looks
    Now this may seem like the wrong thing to say about these cars but I am not a huge fan of either of them. The Hyundai concept style floating front bumper on the Aston... Girly wine bar fairy lights... have no place on a car. It also seems "too long" in Ryk's car proportion scale... Looks like a Limo with small wheels that had a sporty body dropped on it... which as a first impression did spoil things for me. (I wanted to like it, honestly!)

    The Huayra? It is a car I didn't love at first sight. I like certain bits - the wing mounted "Snail eye" mirrors gives it the look of a slug or maybe an insect. The Quad head lamps. It is a definite step up over the Kardashian Sized Rear on the Zonda. Again the car has wonky proportions and the styling of the body shape towards the rear of the car seems a bit plain.


    Engine note
    Aston - a bit nasally and doesn't really sound that powerful
    Better than the Zonda - but not great.

    Handling
    Aston Once you get the slowing down bit out of the way the car is quite nice, no overt understeer.
    The Huayra has the same base issue as the Aston. Front tyres overworked in the brake zone.
    Both cars require you to be gentle as a virgin's first kiss, but the relative lightness of the Pagani lets you corner with much more poise than the ponderous Aston.


    Active Aerodynamics...
    The Aston has a comedy pop up rear tea tray wing... that slides down when not needed. The Pagani has flip up active canards in the nose and at the back of the car that should give the car much more balance.

    ---------

    Right This isn't really a test of ability. The Pagani smokes the Aston when it comes to actual performance on a track.
    Both had woeful brakes and grip. Could be the Super Hard Sport tyres and the top shelf power and the heavy weight (The Huayra isn't that heavy but the tyres and brakes can't live with the speeds the engine was serving up.

    Looks - The Aston is okay. A Bit like a catwalk Fashion model... almost alien in how they look, The 1-Seventyseven is nice, a bold brave styling exercise and maybe the stand out bits you would grow to love, but my first taste was the car wetting the bed under brakes at Le Mans.

    But this sort of car is about "American" style high speed straight line point to point cruises with no corners to trouble you, much as the Bugatti Veyron or the MercLaren SLR.

    Which to pick?

    The Pagani - it is left hand drive as it should be; it is an Italian car. The Aston is also left hand drive... which is reprehensible for an English car. And it doesn't have Dark Green Paint? Really Aston... Really? Also first impressions tend to last, and the milk bottle top brakes and the Hyundai front end scuppers the 1-Seventyseven... left hand drive... No Dark GreenPaint ... mumble grumble (Best Danno Ricciardo impression ever)

    Ryk recommends by default, the latest comedy clown car from Pagani, the Huayra-tata.
    1.3 million... ouch my wallet!
    (But a swift 5 lap run in a trusty but rusty TVR Tamora got me 1.1million in the current seasonal on Comfort Softs...
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  9. Arp 273

    Arp 273

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    It's a good thing I don't have to pay for all the crashed Astons.. :cool:

    I very much like the looks of both cars, the Huayra is probably a bit more special but from certaint angles the 177 is just beautiful.

    I started with the Aston on a CM track I had not driven in a while. Its a fast track with some difficult braking zones and blind corners. Took a while to be able to complete a race without crashing. Then hopped in the Pagani. It had much better FFB, even though it is lighter I could feel its weight a lot better, both in corners and under braking. And man those brakes come in hard and fast. Standard racing brakes.. on SH tires.. really?!? Power delivery is much smoother and not as prone to power oversteer as the Aston. Its still there if you need/want it though..:mischievous:

    AI opponents are about the same meaning the race in the Aston was a lot more exiting as I had 2 on my tail right up to the finish line.

    My vote goes to the Pagani Huayra '11 because of its better FFB feel and smoother power delivery.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  10. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    So I went down to Eifel like usual and recorded some lap times. I got a 1:28.648 in the Huayra and a 1:32.783 in the Aston Martin. The Aston is heavy and likes to under steer a lot with traction control on. But with it off it's somewhat manageable in the corners despite the weight. The Huayra is one of the harder cars to drive T/C off, but it's a rewarding drive if you can master it.

    Overall including looks I give the vote to the Huayra. I wish I could write longer reviews, but I've been busy recently. Maybe I'll be more free over the summer. Happy 50th week. Here's to 50 more! :cheers:
     
  11. pretend racer

    pretend racer

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    I drove the Aston first - glad I did! Took a minute to realize the brakes don't work all that well, and the Aston seemed a little slow to respond to inputs - mushy controls? but once that's factored in it was just a matter of controlling the understeer, which could be done with the throttle. Pushing the front tires sideways through corners is prob not the fastest way to do it, but it worked for me. So in the end it only felt fast because you had to concentrate so hard on not under steering off track that when you didn't you felt like "insert favourite F1 drivers name here".

    Next up the pagani - after a few spins and realizing that not only does it suffer from corner entry understeer like the Aston but it has more than enough power to swing the tail around unexpectedly on corner exit if you get on the gas too hard or early. The Aston could get throttle induced oversteer but by that time you had already understeered way past the apex it couldn't help anyways. So once I realized it drove a lot like the Aston but with no sloppiness in the controls, I tamed the understeer/oversteer issues and I was able to lay down some pretty good lap times - I also hit all of my marks unlike my Aston trial. I think g_asher is right, the Aston is capable of low '28's.

    I think pagani looks like a super car whereas you'd have to explain to people that yours is the cool Aston (even though it looks like all the others) because of the cool engine etc...

    So pagani gets my vote it look better going faster and is easier to drive faster, which means it checks more super at boxes imo than the Aston.
     
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  12. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Not sure if anyone else noticed this...

    IMG_20160604_232446.jpg

    Happy 1,000 thread posts everyone! :cheers::gtpflag:
     
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  13. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Can we have a just under 500pp normal car duel? Two of the current seasonal's pay out lots of cash and buying every shade of Huayra hurt Ryk's formerly big bag of Kazulas.
     
  14. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Too busy this week to actually drive more than championship races sadly (which is a bummer since I love Spa), so I can only give an input on my classic Trial Mountain times (comfort softs, abs 1) :


    Pagani Huayra '13 >>> 01:33,148
    Pagani Huayra '11 >>> 01:33,149
    Aston Martin One-77 >>> 01:34,533

    I put both Huatcha times here as they're so close, to showcase how the 2001 has already too much power for it to cope with, until long and flat straights that will allow you to get 300+ km/h. But all in all, it is still pretty driveable as long as you're cautious enough with the right pedal. Still, I found the active aero to be a bit tricky, since the panels get up on both sides when some brake is applied : that can cause some understeer when trail braking, defeating the purpose of that technique, which means you should lift off the brake before turn in. Anyway, I much prefer the Zonda to that, in how it looks and how it drives, and how you can actually manage to pronounce its name without sounding like being allergic to something.

    The Aston can't manage all of its power either, despite having less of it. I think it is pretty fun for an experienced driver, but most people would probably enjoy it more with, say, 100 or 200 hp less, and maybe a bit less weight then, as it has a more refined kind of image. In fact, it feels like a car on which you'd made an engine swap without actually improving anything else : brakes are undersized for the task, traction is definitely too low so I suspect tyres not to be wide enough as well, and the front end doesn't feel nervous or responsive enough for that kind of speeds.

    The Huatcha gets my vote : with a name you can only sneeze, speeds that won't help you about that, and turbos sounding like a sick man breathing, it's not surprising how lethal it can be. But it has so much more raw performance than the Aston it is difficult to not give it the point.
     
  15. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Ass-ton Mah-tawn
    Une swah-sawnt-deese-set

    - as I think they say in France...

    Pah-gar-knee
    Why-Rah

    - as they say in England...
     
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  16. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    You actually nailed that 77 perfectly. But I never heard anyone say the Aston's name in french actually :p

    Also, nice trick for the Huayra. I'll continue to sneeze when talking about this one though.
     
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  17. Draggon

    Draggon

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    This weeks duel made me remember why I've bought and quickly sold the Aston more than once. Tuned up its decent, but it takes a lot of work. The Pagani is better right out of the dealership.

    Even though the Aston has 1100 + hp available and can go over 300 mph with nitrous, the verdict belongs to Pagani :tup:
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  18. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    SSRX in International A, that is all.
     
  19. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The Aston. A looker at that, and a powerful machines also. It's not a big surprise that Aston Martin made a car like this, hence the V8 Vantage and so forth. I dont really have much to say of this car because it drives kinda bland. As usual for a car with this much power, you're gonna have a tough time keeping it under control. I'd say that it's better off staying in those Route X lobbies.

    The Huayra. This too is a powerful one, but is a little more safe coming out of the showroom. This one has aeo options, a better exhaust sound, and looks better in my opinion. It definitely isn't the easiest car to drive, but it doesn't take all that long to get the hang of it. So as you can tell by now, I choose the Huayra.

    Both cars tested at Spa, no aids except ABS: 1, SH tires.

    One-77: 2:30.291
    Huayra: 2:27.418

    And the votes:

    One-77: 0
    Huayra: 8

    And the winner is......

    pagani-2511111948589981600x1060.jpg
    The '11 Huayra!!!

    Congrats to @pretend racer for setting a winning time of 2:24.063 in the Huayra and for setting a winning time of 2:29.649 in the Aston!​
     
  20. Draggon

    Draggon

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  21. pretend racer

    pretend racer

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    Thanks except I probably don't deserve those accolades... I noticed that most of you guys don't use any driving aids. Well I have to confess that I was using abs 1 - not too terrible, and TC 1, these cars do come stock with traction control but it still kinda cheesy to use it when not everyone else is, and lastly the Worst of them all I had SRF On, gasp! The option to use SRF wasn't prohibited, so...

    Next week I'll use nothing but abs 1 and we'll see if I can still maintain a top tier pace - as long as it's not FF car cause I really haven't spent any time learning how to drive them faster than Mrs. Daisy.
     
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  22. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    This week's duel is a battle between classes. Someone here told me that these are neck and neck, so this week's duel is.....

    acura-rsx-type-s-photo-6119-s-429x262.jpg
    The 2004 Acura RSX Type-S

    vs

    2005-toyota-tacoma-xrunner-00006.jpg
    The 2004 Toyota Tacoma X-Runner!!!

    (Thanks to @MidFieldMaven for the suggestion)

    Car vs truck? That's something we haven't seen here, so tell me what you think of these two. This week's time trial will be at a recreation of Snetterton that I made with the course maker, and starting this week there will be no driver aids permitted except ABS. So with that, let the battle begin!​
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  23. Neddo

    Neddo

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    I think ill take box 45 instead of box 51
     
  24. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    ...okay. Nonsensical statement aside, I think it's odd that we've gone nearly a year in this without having a truck duel. (Well, a duel without a truck in it.) I never really see these two vehicles and I wonder how they'll stack up against each other.
     
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  25. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Ha ! That Tacoma is definitely going to surprise a few people out there, I should have enough time to go deeper into that duel this week :)
     
  26. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Until that happens, I'll dive deeper into it myself!

    These were two cars that I never necessarily associated with one another. The RSX I imagined to be put up against a Civic or a Galant or something. The Tacoma is usually in the company of the F-150, Ram, Silverado, and SSR. But, lo and behold, they're on relatively even ground. Let's see what happened.

    Snetterton Trial:
    RSX - 2:11.958
    Tacoma - 2:09.560

    Rotenboden Trial:
    RSX - 2:01.436
    Tacoma - 2:02.467

    SSR5 Trial:
    RSX - 1:46.081
    Tacoma - 1:44.712

    I'm amazed how well the RSX did on the Matterhorn. The car paled in comparison to the Tacoma's power, not to mention the understeer from being FF. That said, both of those attributes are what held it back from beating the Tacoma. The Tacoma was actually fairly enjoyable to drive. Not the most fun, but fun enough.

    My vote goes for the truck!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  27. Draggon

    Draggon

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    This is a very different comparison, on a track I've never driven. That seems to make me more focused on the car/truck itself and not use common tricks on a well known course. Both require completely different techniques. Should be interesting :tup:
     
  28. pretend racer

    pretend racer

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    Well with this weeks duel being a new to me track and both a FF and FR vehicle I though I'd have half a chance of pulling off a good time. I held true to my word and only used abs 1 this week. however, with both of the vehicles being lower pp the extra aids weren't really needed honestly.

    First up was the Acura, I wanted to get it out of the way since it was FF. On my first sighting lap, I will say I was pleasantly surprised at how well it handled. It drove a lot like my old 1995 dohc dodge neon I had once upon a time. So I surprised myself at how well I adapted to the acura in game. I completed three laps to get the hang of the track and went for it. The steering is nicely weighted and direct, with predictable understeer and enough FFB communication to let you know what the front wheels are actually doing. The engine power is nicely matched to the chasis, which makes the understeer managable and not frustrating.

    Tacoma time! During my sighting lap, the first thing I noticed was how quiet it is - I had to turn the volume to be able to hear that engine note (I preferred the acura's). Then it was fun to feel a little familiar power oversteer again! The steering is lighter and does a good job of telling you whats going on, a little corner entry understeer under trailbraking, and a 100% controllable power slide on exit if wanted/needed. It certainly didn't feel like a worktruck!

    In my younger days I would have picked the Acura in a heartbeat over the truck, it looks sporty, good on gas, cheaper insurance etc. in fact I remember beating a few Acura's with the old neon back in the day, so that was the path I took!

    But now with age and wisdom and a steady job to keep the gas tank full, I'd pick the Tacoma everyday! Its more comfortable, drives better, has room for everything, and looks great for a truck.

    So in the end this duel was a lot closer than I though it would be at first glance. But (for me) the truck is quite a bit faster, easier to drive and for this duel I vote for the Tacoma!
     
  29. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Trial Mountain times (comfort soft, ABS 1)

    Toyota Tacoma X-Runner >>> 1:44.506
    Acura RSX Type-S >>> 1:45.455

    Custom track baby (same settings but with oil change)

    Acura RSX Type-S >>> 4:28.155
    Toyota Tacoma X-Runner >>> 4:28.744

    Snetterton Club TT (comfort soft, ABS 1, no oil change)

    Toyota Tacoma X-Runner >>> 2:05.449
    Acura RSX Type-S >>> 2:06.776


    Quite different vehicles this week, which are much more close than expected in terms of performance, despite of different they drive and feel. A big pick-up truck that is lighter than a R35 GT-R, and a civilized version of the Integra Type-R DC5 - which specs are much closer to a EU EP3 Civic, only not looking like a cropped station wagon.

    The RSX is not up to par with its japanese market pumped up cousin, but it is still a great FWD car nonetheless, offering good performance and fun. It definitely has a great turn in and feels at ease at high speeds and on short kinks, but will show weaknesses in long medium speed corners, where some typical FWD understeer will show up, and sometimes on slow exits. But generally, if you're not afraid to give it enough steering, it will eagerly stick to the inside.

    The Tacoma has a bit of trouble with initial turn in on tight sections, and can have some tricky snap off oversteer during long corners or direction changes on bumpy surface. But it remains quite nimble for its footprint, and totally owns the truck game in that regard (hey, I even won a online 550 PP race with a tuned version of that... on Tsukuba :D ), and despite being globally behind in terms of cornering speeds, it is not put to shame by the RSX. There's even a section on my custom track which consists of two progressively decreasing radius half circles where it would be a bit faster by maintaining a slight drift (being right behind the ghost with the Acura there felt like an awkward Initial D battle).

    The Tacoma is clearly the best performer on a racing circuit, as they generally hit the sweet spot where it is at its best. But the comparison on that custom fantasy piece of road was much more interesting. From a standing start, the Tacoma gets a bit of an advantage and gains one car lenght, but once 170 km/h is achieved, the aero drag actually makes the RSX accelerate better from there, and be pretty much equal at 190 km/h. Raw acceleration is not very different in the end between those two cars : what will make more of a difference is how you exploit traction and where the corner puts the cars in their respective powerband. On that course, I ran both cars once, then did a few runs with the Tacoma, then with the RSX. Turns out I could basically run the RSX with the Tacoma ghost activated and not seing it for most of the run. And when the ghost was not merged with me, it would be only sligthly in front or slightly behind. That was a lot of fun, and certainly the closest duel I had on there.

    In the end, the time difference is not big enough to call the Acura the clear winner on this, but it was much more consistent and precise here, and felt easier. Also, the fact you sit lower than in the Tacoma gives a greater sense of speed. If given the choice between those two in real life, I'd still go for the RSX. But you can really enjoy the Toyota in GT6, which can fight with a MR-S or a GT 86 (done a themed event with those three cars, lot of fun).

    The choice is really tough, but despite what I would choose in real life, I'll vote for the Tacoma here just because taking on some hot hatches (stock) or some supercars (tuned) with a truck is priceless. (And it's harder to overtake :lol: )


    PS : that Snetterton reproduction is quite nice, didn't know the track layout before but I liked it a lot, especially the Nelson and Murrays kinks.
     
  30. Arp 273

    Arp 273

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    93
    The Acura RSX didn't do it for me. It's not a bad car, and probably very nice to drive IRL. The FWD understeer was not too bad and it has pretty good brakes and a high revving engine. Someting was missing though and with the Toyota Tocoma I had lots of it.... fun!

    Driving was more fun, drifting was fun :D and being chased by a RUF BTR for 3 laps in arcade was epic. Was looking more in the mirror than ahead... He was much much faster so I had to block him on the straights. He did pass me a few times but I could slide past him in the corners because of the Tocoma's great brakes and easy to control back end with the throttle. Even saved the replay.. :O

    So my vote goes to the Toyota Tacoma X-runner '04