GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Ryk

    Ryk

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    SRT Viper GTS '13
    123,000 credits (Has 6,800cr Sport Hards fitted)
    15 paint options 8 base colours - 7 of which have a stripy option. The odd one being Stryker Red Tinted Pearl - But no British Racing Green?
    In the end I went with Race Yellow Clear Coat Black Stripes.

    566pp 640bhp/83 torques, FR, Normally Aspirated 8.4 litre V10 1556kg, For some reason the Engine size has been Censored. 50:50 weight distribution.

    Looks... One OCD thing that annoys me are the stripes... they miss out the tab at the top of the rear window...
    You can buy 3 flavours of aero kits - Chin whiskers and black aero diffuser bits and side skirts..
    You can also get 3 special wings for the car beyond the usual bolt on generic stuff...
    A is a simple black addition to the rear spoiler
    B is a smaller carbon fibre effect addition, with a gap in the middle for better rearward visibility.
    C is a large boomerang Rear wing that matches the shape of the rear much more than your standard bolt on job. Any colour you like so long as it is black.

    You can also get - door mirrors with a much smaller post and they come in three colour options All Glossy Black, Your Car colour with a Black bracket or a Matt Black with a bracket that matches the colour of your car. If you drive in car you will actually see the effect this has.


    Gearbox - 6 gears - but 5th and 6th are "Offensive Linemen" sized brutes seemingly designed for low rev cruising more than high rev racing.

    4th tops out at 136mph at 6400 RPM.
    6th tops out at 247mph in a draft before you hit the rev limiter (7000RPM). The car got to 220mph on its own quite easily.

    Track - Route X - Like the Wind. - 4m58
    Car had a top speed unaided of about 230 - if you sneak a draft you can coax it to 246, if you are subtle on the throttle near the ultimate rev limiter you can rub up against 250. On the banking the car is a bit wriggly. but you could hold a low line without that much buttock clenching. Soft but manageable suspension.

    ----------------

    Nissan GT-R NISMO '14
    154,440 credits (Has 9,750cr Sport Softs fitted)
    3.8 litre Turbocharged straight 6
    574pp - 591bhp - 66.5 torques - 1720kg - 4WD 52:48 weight distribution

    5 options - All have the bolt on Rear Wing and all have a red detail effect - Colours? White Pearl / Matt Grey / Silver / Black or Red... No British Racing Green here either!

    External Parts - You have the option to remove the rear wing. But no other cosmetic effects other than an even larger bolt on rear wing...

    If you paint the car a custom colour it retains the red detailing at the bottom of the car and the intake area, as well as the Black skirts and front bumper.

    This car comes with... Sports Soft tyres... I swapped to Sports Hard to even things out... A two grade tyre advantage isn't cricket. And we are testing the cars not the Yokohama grade rubber.

    Gearbox - 6 speed but the default box looks much more normal... probably not long enough.
    Free Aerodynamic downforce- the GT-R has 120/200 aero out of the box.

    7600rpm is the rev limiter and in 6th you are pushing 206mph. The Red line is 7000. And the car just about gets up to its top speed without needing a slipstream.


    Track - Route X - Like the Wind. -5m42
    =========


    Maybe a run at the 20 miles at Willow Springs - Maybe not ... as this isn't a "Normal Car" - But the Viper GTS '13 is...

    So that is 2-0 to the Viper on the track. Demolition job really.

    Looks - The Viper isn't as good as it used to be the front wheel looks tiny, the lines look a bit "plastic surgery" generic compared to the old bold brassy look from the 90's but it is still much better than the GT-R and its slab slided Aerobrick. If I gave the Viper a 85% on looks the GT-R would be very middling.

    Track performance.
    This didn't go well for the Nissan - blown away in terms of out and out pace and than unable to compete in a second race. Having "cheaty" tyres and a couple of spoons of free aerodynamic downforce didn't make me any more sympathtic to it.


    До скорого!

    (I wrote this twaddle today after I actually drove the cars at a track with proper corners...)

    After the Destruction of the Nissan GT-R at Route X and then Willow Springs I'll take the third test to the serendipitous sunshine of Switzerland. The spikey scenery of the swiss alps watch on as I circle the car that vanquished the pride of Nismo in the two previous events. Yellow with Black stripes, this is a classic feral warning from the animal kingdom - Danger.

    The venomous bite comes from an 8.4 litre V10 that has no need for rinky dink superchargers or turbochargers - this is raw meaty power, it doesn't scream like some pestering wasp. This is a predator. The looks are stylish, swooping curves. Not as instantly pleasing as previous models but this third incarnation seeps into you, coils around you like a constrictor, crushes your initial reservations, leaving you breathless.

    Sure it looks nice but how is it to drive? The first impression is the power. Those huge rear tyres struggle to put all the power onto the asphalt and the back end wriggles like a Sidewinder - but unlike a heat seeking missile, this car is a wild beast that needs taming with wheelmanship and talent. This is no boosted up Datsun, this is a primal animal harnessed into a chassis and mated to a tuned V10 engine. Able to blast its way up to close to 250mph before the gearbox limits your progress to the sound barrier.

    Okay. So it is fast in a straight line ... but this is an american car, What is it like in the twisties? The car has soft suspension rolling before it bites into the tarmac, and it bites hard. The grip level is like the front tyres have fangs - over crests the back end will skip out like a rattlesnake thrashing its tail. A warning as the car has Oversteer. Novice drivers should take heed and step away from the Viper, step away carefully. If you have some degree of talent you can play with the snake and charm it with a dab of oppo and some naturally aspirated music on the throttle.


    ---------------

    The brused and beaten Nissan. Crushed at Route X. Then humiliated at Willow Springs. Can it reclaim the mistique that was the R32 Godzilla, or will it be on the Nephew, a Godzucci trading on the name hard earned by the R32?

    The GTS has thrown down the gauntlet and this time the Nissan picks up the challenge.

    The track is hard, full of ups and downs, blind cresting corners that reward the brave and punish the foolish. The Slab silded GT-R has the looks of a wheeliebin but will it finaly take out the trash and earn a win? Gearchanges are as punchy as Mike Tyson in the late 80's. Loads of grip, the all wheel drive isn't a recipe for chronic understeer. Infact with the computer girlyman aids turned off you can chuck the car about like a lunatic and get away with alot. The turbos spool is subtle and that mechanical straight six sound is reassuring. The car feels fast and you are able to place the car without the usual issues you get with an all-wheel drive car. Its brakes are as solid and dependable as a wookie co-pilot. Turn in is as neat and tidy as an autistic childs lunchbox. Balanced like a ballerina on a high beam - it made corners seem effortless and graceful. Even if you get out of shape the car will save you and you will dismount form a corner with a toothy smile and both arms aloft to the adulation of the crowd and the lamentation of the women. But its lack of "meat" in the power department left it struggling in the wake of the barbaric GTS.

    Coming in hot to an especially nuggety left hander, I palm hard on the wheel and as we crest the bend I feel the playful tail step wide. I simply catch it with a dab of oppo and the yokohama tyres scrabbling for grip like a wild eyed kitten up your curtains.


    --
    ... The times... The GTS beat the GT-R by just over a Second (No driver aids) - To be fair The GT-R felt very easy to chuck about whereas I had to be a bit, okay, alot more careful with the GTS over the crests and I probably lost alot more time with the Viper than I did with the GT-R. If I had to repeat the laps I can see the GTS extending the gap in times as I was able to actually put down the power and balance the car better over crests.

    Three times I've posted here, one was my gut feelings, one was a test last night that just grumped me out how many advantages the Nissan has yet squanders and today when I gave them a both a fair run. And if you are still reading this give them a drive, they are really quite good.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  2. Il_Conte_Sky

    Il_Conte_Sky

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    This post doesn't contain a lap dance *ding*
     
  3. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Before I start doing my testing, does anyone know if there's any performance difference between the Launch Edition Viper GTS and the regular Viper GTS?
     
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  4. Giygas

    Giygas

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    I think they might have different gearing.
     
  5. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Right then. So, since they're geared differently, I'll play it safe and get a new GTS straight from the dealership.

    It's readily apparent that the GT-R is the quicker and more stable car, chiefly due to the 4WD. The Viper takes more skill to drive, and while it's considerably more fun than the GT-R, it's not exactly quicker.

    Mountain Trial:
    Viper GTS - 1:44.877
    GT-R NISMO - 1:40.316

    City Trial:
    Viper GTS - 1:32.724
    GT-R NISMO - 1:29.901

    As you can see, the GT-R outclassed the Viper on both the mountain and flat ground. Thus, the GT-R is the clear winner.

    But the Viper is still more fun, and what I'd recommend if you wanted something to joyride.
     
  6. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Here were my results at Mid-Field on Comfort Softs.

    Nissan GT-R Nismo '14
    3.8L
    591 hp / 7,000 rpm
    481 ft-lb / 3,500 rpm
    1,720 kg (3,792 lbs)
    574 pp

    SRT Viper GTS '13
    8.4L
    640 hp / 6,400 rpm
    601 ft-lb / 5,000 rpm
    1,556 kg (3,430 lbs)
    566 pp

    The Viper has an engine more than double the size of the GT-R, which adds up to an increase of 49 hp and 120 ft-lbs of torque. It's also lighter overall, by 362 lbs. On the track, the Viper's top speed on the front straight is 4 mph better than the GT-R.




    They're very evenly matched, but the GT-R requires much less skill to pull off consistent times, lap after lap. I'm still going with the Viper. It's a true drivers' car. The Nismo just feels too heavy every time I throw it into a corner.
     
  7. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    I've driven both so much since the start of GT6 and when the NISMO debuted. The NISMO is going to win when put to the clock. But, you have to give the SRT props. All engine. No doodads. It's a brute made to go fast and sound loud. That's it. For pure driving pleassure, the SRT wins this one for me.
     
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  8. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    This was a bit of a heated battle, so let's begin.

    The GT-R. 591 whopping horsepower and it comes with sports softs. But I gave it sports hards to make it fair game. When I tested it at Silverstone International the understeer immediately got my attention, and let's not forget about the fact it costs way more than the Viper. After Silverstone I decided to re-equip the sports softs and take it to the Green Hell. Driving with SS makes it a bit more stable and more predictable.

    The Viper has the opposite problem, oversteer. But, I think it has the better sound. On nearly every corner the Viper wanted to drift, but once you get control over this car it can become a very nice car to drive. On sports hards it's one of those cars that does better in a straight line. Not to mention the vast amount of aero mods that can be placed on it. How did these two compare on the track?

    3 laps on Silverstone International, sports hard tires

    GT-R Nismo: 1:11.435
    Viper: 1:10.796

    Despite the oversteer, the Viper managed to come out on top, but I looked at some other lap times that you guys did and it showed the GT-R as the clear winner. Which would I choose? Well the GT-R does have the better handling, but it isn't classified as a street or a race car, which makes it useless for specified events. Plus I like a bit of a challenging var to drive, so I choose:

    The Viper.

    And judging by your guy's votes:

    GT-R: 5
    Viper: 8

    The winner is.....

    [​IMG]
    The Viper GTS '13!!!

    Sorry godzilla, the venom from the Viper was too much for you to handle, but you'll pull through. Anyways, another duel down so stop by here tomorrow for the next duel of the week and if you have any suggestions, feel free to start a conversation with me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  9. kolio

    kolio

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    I know I am late. But I choose Viper too. :D
     
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  10. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Added to the vote results :cheers:
     
  11. kolio

    kolio

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    Well, look at you. :cheers::tup:
     
  12. XtremeEdward

    XtremeEdward (Banned)

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    Next battle: Pagani Huayra (2013) vs Ferrari FXX
     
  13. ALeftRighter

    ALeftRighter

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    I dont know if these do anything but may I suggest N360 vs Subaru 360?
     
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  14. XtremeEdward

    XtremeEdward (Banned)

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    Actually what about a battle of the 60's Fiat 500s? 500F vs 500R vs 500L?
     
  15. littleregret265

    littleregret265

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    I'm going to get in on this where I can find the time.
    And as for next week, though you've probably already decided by now, how about Civic Type R '08 vs. Toyota 86 GT '12
    EDIT: An alternate suggestion (that might also be seen as juvenile): Red Bull X2014F vs. SRT Tomahawk X
     
  16. jontikis

    jontikis

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    Maybe Corvette C5R '00 vs Viper GTS-R Team Oreca '00?
    The giant battle for the GT class in the early '00s ;)
     
  17. Il_Conte_Sky

    Il_Conte_Sky

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    Lancia Delta HF Integrale Vs Toyota Celica 4wd
     
  18. AleksandarSRB

    AleksandarSRB

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    CLK GTR vs Nissan R390 GT1
     
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  19. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    This week we're toning things down to a more "cruising" level. Both of these cars are fun and exciting to drive. So this week's duel is.....

    [​IMG]
    The 2008 Honda Civic Type R

    vs

    [​IMG]
    The 2012 Toyota 86 GT!!!

    (Thanks to @littleregret265 for the suggestion)

    FF vs FR. I don't think we've had a duel like this yet, so it should be quite interesting. So have at it and let me know what you think!
     
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  20. littleregret265

    littleregret265

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    Hooray! Thanks for using my suggestion
     
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  21. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    At Mid-Field, on Comfort Softs, with no oil change, mods, or tuning of any kind.




    Top speed on the front straight:

    126 mph - Honda
    122 mph - Toyota

    Honda Civic Type R '08
    2.0L
    221 hp / 8,000 rpm
    161 ft-lb / 6,000 rpm
    1,270 kg (2,800 lbs)

    Toyota 86 GT '12
    2.0L
    198 hp / 7,000 rpm
    151 ft-lb / 6,500 rpm
    1,230 kg (2,712 lbs)

    The Honda makes +23 hp and +10 ft-lbs of torque over the Toyota, but weighs 88 lbs more.

    Which car would I choose for daily commuting, people-hauling, and grocery-getting? The Honda, easily. But when the road begins to resemble the 19th letter of the English alphabet, I'd wish I was in the Toyota. If I had to choose one to handle both: Honda. It's faster overall, and is much more practical.
     
  22. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    G'day guys, I've just discovered this thread & thought I'd let you know what I've been up to.
    It's been a personal project to belt the hell outta most of the premium cars at the Nurburgring Nordschleife and these are my results.
    I use the buttons on a DS3, always manual transmission, no driving aids except for ABS1 and all my times are recorded on Sports Hard tyres from a best of 2 flying laps.
    For the current duel:

    Civic Type R '08 8:09:633
    Toyota 86 8:15:748

    Other cars on the list as follows:

    NISMO GT-R 7:10:879
    Nissan GT-R '07 7:18:839
    SRT Viper '13 7:20:397
    Corvette Z06 7:21:717
    Mitsubishi Evo.X 7:58:174
    VW Scirocco 8:02:595
    Citroen C4 8:37:515

    As for the current duel, in my opinion, the Civic does punch way above it's weight division and was a genuine surprise for a FF sedan not known for it's torque figure. Rev it hard, be sensible with your corner speed & reap the benefits.
    The Toyota 86 on the other hand is a chassis begging for more power. Rev it hard too because that's the only way you'll get where you want to go with anything resembling pace. C'mon Toyota/Subaru, whack the STi engine under the front sheetmetal & watch the cues of people form with deposits at the ready.
    Boost a BRZ to STi power level, stiffen the suspension by 20%, up the rims by +1, tick the box for the rear spoiler & go for a drive on your favorite track. I'll bet you can't wipe the grin of your face.
     
  23. littleregret265

    littleregret265

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    Elated that I got my choice, I proceeded to buy box stock versions of each car. Alright. So let's run down my list here:
    Specs:

    Honda Civic Type R '08
    Displacement: 1,998 cc
    Peak Power: 221 HP @ 8,000 rpm
    Peak Torque: 160.8 ft-lbs. @ 6,000 rpm
    Weight: 1,270 kg
    Drivetrain: FF
    Aspiration: NA

    Toyota 86 GT '12
    Displacement: 1,998 cc
    Peak Power: 198 HP @ 7,000 rpm
    Peak Torque: 151.1 ft-lbs. @ 6,500 rpm
    Weight: 1,230 kg
    Drivetrain: FR
    Aspiration: NA

    Both compact cars. Both with 2 liter naturally-aspirated engines. Both right around 200 HP. Not too far from each other in weight. Close in GT6 price. On paper it looks pretty close. But wait: the GT 86 has sports hard tires, where the Civic has comfort softs! Let's equalize that.

    In actuality the 86 has rather low grip tires, related to the ones you might find on a Prius if I have my facts correct. But it is a magnificent car, it has rather aggressive styling, but it works well, and despite its poise as the spiritual successor to the AE86, manages to look much much better in my opinion, and doesn't take all too many cues from the quirky (but still lovable) AE86. It does look better than the Civic too, even if I am biased as a proud former Civic owner. The Civic has nice smooth styling, but it isn't as attractive, it has a more passive look to me. It's close, but the points go to the 86 on that one.

    As far as pricing is concerned, the Civic is a bit cheaper in game, costing 28,350 Cr. as opposed to a flat 30 grand for the 86. And that holds true if you wanted to find a real example nowadays, as you can find a decent FD2 for around $18-20,000 USD; where a good 86 GT, stick or auto might be starting around $23,000 if you're lucky (mind you that's for an actual 86 GT. If you want an FR-S, you can find good ones for Type R money, with a US-spec BRZ falling right between those) Both are well appointed models, but as far as what you're physically getting for your money, my nod goes to the Civic.

    With both cars on Comfort grade tires, I took them out to Monterey's own Laguna Seca Raceway, and ran a few tests.
    But before that, let's talk about feel. This Civic has a very good sense of speed and all of the gears keep you right in the power band. It's very easy to point it into a corner, ease it through, and power out. Easy to learn, difficult to master as it goes. Still a staple in handling, and remarkable for a 4 door.

    Now in the 86, I expected some tail out action to ensue. It was incredibly predictable and fun to drive though, and unless I had a full mind to kick out the rear end, it stayed under control. The gearing was a bit more conservative on this one though, and if you're not careful, it can fall outside of the power band on more demanding grades.

    First actual test, fuel economy (Wear set to Very Fast).
    Civic used 52 liters in 10 laps
    86 used 48 liters in 10 laps
    Winner: 86

    Second test, Best Lap time of 3 laps
    Civic: 1:47.304
    86: 1:48.569
    Winner: Civic (I actually could have gotten maybe a couple tenths more with the Civic thanks to a missed shift in Sector 1. But of course, you're always leaving something out on the track: it's never perfect.)

    So with those battle lines drawn, I took to the highway, to see which one was most in tune with its inner speed demon. I had my notions that 25 horsepower favoring the Civic would make this an open-and-shut case.

    Third Test: Top Speed
    Civic Top Speed: 151 mph (243 kph)
    86 Top Speed: 150 mph (241 kph)
    I was surprised to see how tight that one was. I'd venture to say that if the 86's 6th gear wasn't so long, it could have beaten the peppy Civic. But you have to think about it aerodynamically. Even if the Civic is a bit more understated in styling, it still is a taller car to drive. As such, the 86 is able to cut through the air better. I'd have to give an honorable mention to the 86 due to it being 25 horses down and still being within 2 kph; if not call that one a draw. I'd rather just do that.

    I'm split right down the middle on this one as I prepare to bring it to a close. I can tell you for sure they're both great fun if you have the option to drive stick. But my winner is... the Toyota 86 GT.

    Let me explain. The Honda Civic is an excellent car, from both an owner's standpoint, and a driver's. It's quick, nimble, fast, fun, good on space, and great on value. A great tuner's and modder's car. In real life, I'd take the keys to the FD2 Civic on almost any day of the week.

    But the 86, the 86 is fun. Not exceptionally challenging or blazing fast, but it's always down for a good time. I found myself clamoring for more laps at Laguna Seca in that car, wanting absolute perfection. This car makes you yearn for it. And this isn't the real world (even though I mentioned the real world a whole lot). Plus, even though it's down on power from the outset, once you upgrade it, it takes that power happily, and becomes a very nice platform for many different things in the game (though not best for everything). It didn't surprise me that it used less fuel, but it did surprise me that it could keep up in the top speed department (admittedly it did take a couple seconds longer to get there).

    I'm sure many will say that the Civic is the better car; it is indeed faster. If I was any more biased of a person in general than I am now, I'd pick the Civic, for the fact that it has given me great things in life to remember, and great victories in GT as well. It's a fast thing. And cheaper out of the box. But Toyota's 86 had me expecting it to be one thing. Turned out another. And even though I wasn't convinced that it was an amazing driving experience, it grew on me to be one of my better ones, and is a more rewarding car to me because it teaches you how to make it go fast, rather than just catapulting you out of each corner and masking the nuances. Plus, if you were to leave Gran Turismo's stock tires on there, it could likely trump the Civic in the twisty stuff. Then again, that wouldn't be as fun, or true to its character.

    TLDR: I pick the 86 over the faster Civic because it is more fun and still has good performance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  24. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    The Type R. It's made to be a race car. It doesn't feel or go like the average FF. It can actually out handle an NSX around Suzuka (I have the BMI FD2 Type R DVD :). It doesn't need anything added to it. It wouldn't wear the badge if it were anything else. I'd go a step further and say if Honda took the back seat out, I'd stll pick it over the 86. If you had a once in a lifetime offer, to own either of these two cars, a genuine Type R is what I would grab.
     
  25. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Hachiroku or a Civic Type-R?

    I'll keep this small. I prefer to drive the 86GT, Rear wheel drive beats a Fronty - 8 days a week, every week.

    The Civic is a boosted up family car - and looks like a disaster - 4 doors silly rear wing... really?
    The 86 looks so pretty, Drives with such elegance and comes in the purest of feminine colours : Satin White - This car is Uma Thurman with 4 wheels!

    On the track I'll admit the more powerful Civic will beat it. Price - pretty even - maybe the 86 is cheaper once you factor in the Hard Semi slicks it is fitted with, while the Type-R gets Softy Comforts.

    If I had to pick one. The 86GT - I'd enjoy every lap in the car and the car is a thing of beauty in real life. The Civic is a car that is infected with understeer. The Engine is great - and the cute White wheels you get when you by the creamy championship white paint is a nice touch. But the rest of the car is a horror show...

    I dislike the Civic so much, I even hate the windscreen wipers... try it in the Spa Seasonal... they look terrible. (You'll earn an easy 365,000cr when you get 3rd place - so you can afford to splash out on some Monsoon tyres)

    86GT - Pretty, fun to drive, good colours.
    Civic - Nice engine... Goes faster (On equal tyres).

    Not very logical and pretty shallow of me, but the only choice is the 86GT
     
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  26. Furi

    Furi Premium

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    Civic all the way. Toyota is a terrible attempt at a mr2 celica hybrid.
     
  27. ToyGTone

    ToyGTone

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    I won't bother with talking about how and why I prefer the GT86 over the civic because I'm busy with school...

    Others pretty much explained it.;)
     
  28. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    It's unfortunate that PD can't be bothered to render the 2016 MX-5 because it would be a perfect match for the Toyota.
     
  29. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    PD are too busy dreaming up cars that no one will get to drive in the real world :rolleyes:
     
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  30. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    Location:
    Greece
    If we want to be accurate, FT86 need to wear CM tires and Civic CS in GT6 to reflect RL grip. And if we test them with those specific tires, Civic is quite faster. From design aspect I like FT86 much more. From practicallity Civic has 4 seats and FT 2+2 but Civic has much more harder suspension and no sound proof cabin. I love Honda VTec engines though. I don't know what I would buy if I was in such a position guys. A close to draw comparison to me. They are both great cars. I might prefer Toyota just because it is coupe in shape and more civilised. Civic is a trackday car in fact.

    UPDATE: Real life testing them in stock in Tsukuba by racing drivers gives:

    FT86 a bit over 1'10"
    Civic Type-R '08 1'08"400

    Tires play big role in a track short as Tsukuba, so this difference is absolutely normal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015