GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Another three way battle covering the US, Japan, and Europe. I like the thought that was put into this, though there is an obvious difference in performance between the three, which manifests differently based on the track. I was finally able to implement my tournament style ranking that I wanted to try in the last three way battle as well. It's simple, fastest time gets 3 points, slowest gets 1 point for effort, and the middle man gets 2 points.

Trial Mountain Trial... Mountain Trial:
CTS-V - 1:41.080 (3rd) - 1pt
IS-F - 1:38.984 (2nd) - 2pts
Z8 - 1:38.891 (1st) - 3pts

Rotenboden Trial:
CTS-V - 1:49.867 (3rd) - 1pt
IS-F - 1:46.031 (1st) - 3pts
Z8 - 1:49.095 (2nd) - 2pts

SSR5 Trial:
CTS-V - 1:35.263 (2nd) - 2pts
IS-F - 1:34.698 (1st) - 3pts
Z8 - 1:35.289 (3rd) - 1pt

Final Standings:
IS-F - 8pts
Z8 - 6pts
CTS-V - 4pts

The Cadillac felt like the weakest performer of the group, despite having the most PP. It had this bad oversteer/understeer mix in behavior. Braking too hard brought out the understeer, and too much gas brought out the oversteer, and this was especially grating on the elevation changes. As you can see, the track with the most flat ground was the track it actually didn't come in last.

The Lexus felt a lot more reserved and balanced, which is no doubt why it won compared to the other two. It's one of those nice cars that can get you into trouble if you want it to, but otherwise, it's nice and conservative.

The BMW had oversteer problems, but unlike the Cadillac, this kind of oversteer felt fun, reminiscent of driving a Viper or an old Shelby Cobra. While it's not too pretty, I was pleased with its behavior, and was thinking that it would be the winner of the duel, but it actually lacked the consistency of speed. Sure it was fun, but it's not necessarily the best racer.

Vote goes for Lexus. If you want something fun, get the BMW. The Caddy gets a gold star for effort.

 

Hey, I'm a new member and I'm guessing that everyone votes on whatever car they like best based on whatever criteria they feel like basing their judgements on - right?

Here's my rankings;

Based on speed around the track - Lexus, BMW, Caddy

Based on Fun Factor - Caddy, BMW, Lexus

Based on Looks - Caddy, BMW, Lexus

In the game, the BMW would be my go to car out of the 3. IRL, I would buy the Caddy. I want to like the Lexus but i don't, which is frustrating cause its the fastest, but doesn't feel like its the fastest. I think the BMW suits my driving style best (i feel fast in it), but the numbers suggest otherwise, cause I'm faster in the car that understeers, and makes me frown because of it (just turn already!).

 

Queen's birthday Yesterday- So let's celebrate that bit of bafflingly arcane leadership with a

バトル・ロワイアル
(None of this watered down unoriginal Hollywood remake Hunger Games trash!)
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Metal inert gas welded in Dingolfing and assembled 50 miles to the South West in Munich Germany.

The BMW Z8
485pp - 4941cc V8 - 5 Chips (Red, Silver, Black Metallic Blue and Metalic Chocolate "Stratusgrau")
Exterior Designer - Henrik "DB9" Fisker

Trivia - Starred in a film with Sophie Marceau... (Ding ding ding winner... I can't do that... But Sophie is a rare thing, something French I like... Okay I'll review theothers...)

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From Tahara, Aichi, Japan AND Miyawaka, Fukuoka, Japan


The Lexus IS F
509pp - 4968cc V8 - 6 Chips (Crimson,Blue, Black, Dark Gray, Silver, White)
Designers - Kengo Matsumoto, Hiroshi Okamoto and Yukihiko "Captain Supra" Yaguchi

Trivia - Kazunori "I Love GT-R's" Yamauchi, won a class victory the 24 hours of the Nurburgring in a VLN version by Gazoo racing...


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From Lansing Michigan in the Republic of Motownia

Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
521pp - 6156cc V8 Supercharged - 7 Chips (Crimson,White, Black,Shiny Black,Grey, Snotty Gray, Dull Silver)

Got mine in Snot Gray - Evolution Green Metallic)


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The Caddy stands out with its Monsterous Mexican pushrod Supercharged V8 that has a distinct advantage in the power plant area.
The Beemer has a narrow advantage in how light it is but an open top car tends to flop about in the corners, can those Dingolfin MIG Welds keep the complex curves in the aluminium spaceframe chassis from flexing away its handling?
The Lexus has the Value for money tag, but is it outgunned in other areas by the German and American Cars?

PP ratings indicate that the Bavarian Bruiser is woefully outmatched, and the Michigan Mauler has a 12 point lead over the 4 door Japanese Shutokofighter and a whopping 36 point lead over the 50's throwback from south East Germany.

***Round 1 *** Value for Money ***
BMW - 166,000
Lexus - 76,600
Cadillac - 90,000

Lexus 1, Cadillac 0, BMW 0
​

***Round 2 *** Torrents of buttery smooth V8 Powah ***
BMW - 395bhp
Lexus - 445bhp
Cadillac - 555bhp

Lexus 1, Cadillac 1, BMW 0
​

***Round 3 *** The time for Torque is over ***
BMW - 51
Lexus - 52
Cadillac - 76

Cadillac 2, Lexus 1, BMW 0
​

***Round 4 *** Lightness ***
BMW - 1610kg
Lexus - 1623kg
Cadillac - 1940kg

Cadillac 2, Lexus 1,BMW 1
​

***Round 5 *** Paint Chips Selection ***
BMW - 5
Lexus - 6
Cadillac -7

Cadillac 3, Lexus 1, BMW 1
​

***Round 6 *** Terminal Velocity ***
BMW - 188mph
Lexus - 205mph
Cadillac - 217mph

Cadillac 4, Lexus 1, BMW 1
​

***Round 7 *** Tale of the Tape : Length ***
BMW - 4400mm
Lexus - 4660mm
Cadillac - 4800mm

Cadillac 5, Lexus 1, BMW 1​

***Round 8 *** Never mind the quality, feel the width ***
BMW - 1830mm
Lexus - 1815mm
Cadillac - 1900mm

Cadillac 6, Lexus 1, BMW 1​

***Round 9 *** Danger Low Bridge ahead (Max Headroom) ***
BMW - 1315mm
Lexus - 1415mm
Cadillac - 1420mm

Cadillac 6, Lexus 1, BMW 2​

***Round 10 *** Crankshaft Revolution - Redline ***
BMW - 7000rpm
Lexus - 6800rpm
Cadillac - 6400rpm

Cadillac 6, Lexus 1, BMW 3​

***Round 11 *** Route X - Rolling 18.82 miles ***
BMW - 6m13.130... (And that was with the Limiter off! Only just managed to beat sunrise...)
Lexus - 5m46.641 (10 seconds down on the Zonda R)
Cadillac - 5m30.589 (Beating a Zonda R!)

Cadillac 7, Lexus 1, BMW 3​

***Round 12 *** Looks that make a mother cry ***
BMW - A Bangle era Beemer that I like (Oh it's based off of a 1950's design and Henrik kept the crayons away from Chris...)
Lexus - Not a bad looking car, Just not as nice as a Topless German from Dingolfing
Cadillac - Looks more like a Toyota Prius than a Toyota Prius looks like a Caddillac... Last place - Do I take points off?
​

Cadillac 7, Lexus 1, BMW 4​

***Round 13 *** Gear Brylls - Eat you own transmission***
BMW - 6 Gears
Lexus - 8 Gears
Cadillac - 6 Gears

Cadillac 7, Lexus 2, BMW 4​

***Round 14 *** Sneaky natural rear "Negative Lift" ***
BMW - 00
Lexus - 30
Cadillac - 00

Somehow in GT6 coding the Lexus has natural Aerodynamic cheaty downforce

Cadillac 7, Lexus 3, BMW 4​

***Round 15 *** Rearward Weight Balance ***
BMW - 49:51
Lexus - 54:46
Cadillac - 54:46

Cadillac 7, Lexus 3, BMW 5
​

***Round 16 *** Sportsland SUGO - One shot Flying Lap ***
BMW - 1m43.494
Lexus - 1m44.296
Cadillac - 1m43.493

Cadillac 8, Lexus 3, BMW 5​

I was fully expecting the Caddy to be a woeful portly dog of a car, and it is, but That Supercharger just manhandles the rear tyres letting you muck about in the corners, It does border on dangerous, breaking traction on a 130mph corner isn't one of the recommendations in the owners manual, but the sheer mass of the car gives you loads of time to balance things. The Lexus had an annoyingly fussy gearbox that really felt like I was rowing the car about much more than the other two. The Z8? It just felt off. All the time I was in it, I was thinking, "This is no Griffith..." It felt very heavy and the engine note fizzled out at the top end into a musical mumble rather than a maniacal rumble.



***Round 17 *** Fun to drive rating ***
BMW - Vague wobbley mushy handling, Brakes felt weak.
Lexus - Understeero
Cadillac - Oversteer on Demand

Cadillac 9, Lexus 3, BMW 5​

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Cadillac wins, but I was not that happy with any of them. I only tested them for a few laps at Sugo which is a pretty simple up and down track. And the fun I got out of the Caddy was a very pleasant surprise after the Beemer and the Lexus both were heavy awkward lumps. If I were to do any more driving laps I would dislike the German and Japanese cars purely on handling issues.


There are reasons to choose any of them,
The Z8 is great to just look at but has the weakest engine and mushy handling,
The Lexus has a inoffensive look and can get a fair old lick of speed and the gearbox is machine gun quick in the changes. Alas it has a nightmare of understeer that forces the car to push wide under power.

The Caddy looks like Dr Frankenstien had a bad day sourcing parts for his latest Creation."I was after Proteus, not Prius!" But the Mexican Engine and Eaton Blower revealed the beating heart of a car that is a horror story on the outside. Look at the rear wheel... that tiny Baby Wheel Dude. (That thing looks hurt Jay... I know so 2015!)

All jokes aside, I'd pick the Cadillac as it had alot of character on the track. The Lexus was muzzled with understeer and the BMW despite being the lightest felt every kilo of its 1600+kg weight.

 

Lexus IS-F
Because a Japanese V8

 

For the next duel :
TVR cerbera Speed 12 vs McLaren F1

 

XtremeEdward, is that you?

Send a PM to Cowboy if you want to suggest a car.

 

No no
I'm not XtremeEdward

 

The BWM has a beautiful classic look, one of the few convertables in the game that can be driven open on track. Closed top and a nice body kit are available in GT Auto. I like that the paint is also visible on the dashboard. Cool glowing gages. Fun to drive but in arcade races most of the time it's to fast for the selected AI opponents.

The Lexus has a bit plain/safe looks. Gearbox sometimes gets in the way, 2nd gear is too short. Boring/safe balanced understeer. It is the fastest on most tracks, just not as fun to drive as the others.

The boxy Cadillac looks hefty and mean. I like it but understand it's not for everyone. Clean dasboard with both analog needles and leds. Nice engine note and forgiving redline limiter. Surprisingly good handling for such a heavy car, with fun power oversteer on demand. Best arcade AI races with cool opponent selection. During testing i've had a some close races with nice battles.

My vote goes to the Cadillac CTS-V Coupe '11

 

I'll start with the Z8. This is a more unique looking BMW in my opinion because it doesn't really follow the M-series Sedan lineup. Instead, it's a top down behemoth with power and a lot of weight. This was a frisky one on the track, sliding around on pretty much every corner. I've heard that this is a very good drift car, which is believable, and it isn't that bad for just regular racing either.

Then you have the IS F. Lexus isn't unknown for having many gears on their trannies, and this one has eight of them. This was the most stable car of the group, only skidding when being pushed to hard. Most noticeable thing on this is the understeer, which can be fairly annoying on tracks like Trial Mountain. Add that with the semi boring attitude, and you have a safe car that you'll probably sell within a month.

Last but not least is the CTS-V. I don't like most modern Caddy's because of their looks, but this one is a different story on the inside. This is a pretty heavy car, and the most powerful. However, this car somehow balances the weight very nicely for this kind of car. It drives almost like a mid-engined car, and accelerates like a demon. The only thing I don't like about this one is the visibility out the rear view window.....Anyways, my vote goes to.....

The IS F, because it's not that hard to tune for racing, and isn't hard to get along with either once you get past the understeer.

All three cars tested at Trial Mountain, Sports Hard tires, no aids other than ABS: 1

Z8: 1:38.078
IS F: 1:38.302
CTS-V: 1:38.273

And the votes:

IS-F: 4
CTS-V: 3
Z8: 0

And the winner is.....

The '07 IS F!!!

Congrats to @pretend racer for setting the winning time of 1:36.343 in the Z8, @Draggon for setting a time of 1:37.040 in the CTS-V, and @pretend racer for setting a time of 1:36.086 in the IS F. Good battle this week, so stop by here tomorrow for the next duel of the week!​

 

I think this post was not counted at all. Maybe it could be another Cadillac vote? Not that it would matter..

 

I did count it, it's just that I accidentally hit 2 instead of 3

Thanks for pointing that out though.

 

I think there's an error.... HeyZeuss666 beat me in the BMW by a pretty good margin.

 

This thread got me interested in GT6 again this morning...
Not seeing the times you guys are putting up, but:
CTS-V 1:42.012
IS-F 1:42.993
Z8 1:42.772

I'm pretty rusty- no GT6 for maybe 6-8 weeks?

I'm firmly in the Cadillac camp on looks- the Z8 is very classic, but bland. The IS-F in basically invisible on the street- RWD Corolla? The current generation Cadillacs are unmistakable- there is a definite design statement, and you can tell a Cadillac from the crowd from quite a distance.

 

The Lexus was surprising in it's ability to get around the track despite a lot of understeer, the Caddy was what I would expect it to be, but I found the BMW lacking. It feels like the front and rear ends are fighting with each other... what do I want to do? Pushy, loose, pushy again. I must have bought and sold this thing 5 or 6 times now, hoping I'd have a better experience. Nope

 

Next duel is coming a little early, but fear not comrades, for you shall have a fun time with these two. Ladies and gents, I give you.....

The 1987 Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31)

vs


The 1978 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am!!!

Two FRs, two different countries, and slower and affordable. I'm not going for the Firebird by default just because of my avatar, but we'll have to see who is better here. This week's time trial will be on Curcuito de Madrid, where the sharp corners of the streets will definitely test your cornering ability.​

 

Haven't played with the R31 yet, but here's what we had from when the Firebird was our Car of the Week.

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@McClarenDesign it's one thing when people post a video or two showing the run they did in the cars, but posting five at once kinda lags the page a bit much. May I humbly request you either link the videos via URLs, or just keep the link for the post in your thread?

 

Or he could just put them in spoiler tags

I would love to test both of these cars as i like both of them but i returned my friend's ps3 back and my ps3 dies everytime i play GT6.

 

Here are my Trial Mountain lap times (offline, 5 laps each, comfort softs, no ABS for both)

Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 01:45,761
Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) 01:46,899

The Firebird, a nice take over the same generation of Camaro, which feels bland aesthetically. So the Pontiac was very welcome in that regard. And on the track, it's a delight as well : it feels more modern than it is and crushes your typical american car stereotype. Ok, it may not be as fast in corners than the best european rivals, but it's not ridiculous at all. It is at ease under pretty much every situation : traction, grip, sharpness, balance, braking, it all does it well, and is very easy to handle in general, while still keeping the fun factor.

The HR31 Skyline GTS-R, an understated legend in Japan, and certainly the most sought-after RWD Skyline amongst the fans. You'll find only 800 of them. At the time, people were cringing, not understanding why Nissan didn't took the opportunity to bring back the GT-R label by giving it to this car (truth is they already planned the R32 at that point). On track, you immediately feel it was built more with racing in mind than the previous R30, and feels firm and precise compared to it, although it remains a bit floaty at some points. However, you'll have to watch out on high speed sections with sudden direction changes as the rear end becomes unstable on these situations.


I really like both cars, and used to enjoy them both in 350-500pp events online. In the end, I'm going with the Pontiac, not solely based on performance, but also because despite being nearly a decade younger, the Skyline chassis doesn't really feel much like it, and because despite being very manageable, the Pontiac is still fun, and also because it is quite unexpected at first to see it playing with hot hatches in twisties. The only thing it lacks is a 5th gear.

 

I just bought the Pontiac firebird the other day on a whim because I was going for the fanatical collector trophy (100 cars), haven't driven it yet but I'm stoked to have a reason to drive it.

 

I suggest anyone willing to do it, to take those 2 cars on Willow Springs or Laguna Seca on CM tires. That'd be a nice comparison on their age when they were new. If I do that in next 2 days I will post back about the laptimes.

 

Or that too.

I'll have some thoughts later on when I get a chance to test these out. Interesting duel idea.

 

My apologies. I'd done so previously with nothing but support.

 

...and you were well within your right to do so. I should have spoken up earlier, but didn't for some reason.

The videos are good. If you could put them under a spoiler tag, I'd be grateful.

I really appreciate you're being cool about this.

 

Just filling my annual quota of 1. Back to the regularly scheduled shenanigans.

 

I needed to spend some time to learn the track properly and I noticed the 'bird is a pretty sedate drive. 4 gears, torquey v8 but not enough hp to get throttle oversteer. It felt pretty planted and great brakes. You know how far to push this car to the edge and when you go past it, it's pretty easy to gather back up and keep going.

When I jumped in the r34 I must say after the first lap I was pretty disappointed. The brakes didn't seem to work! Now I don't know if this was due to me carrying way more speed into the corners or not (I don't look at the gauges when I'm driving) but the braking distance required was huge compared to the firebird. And that extra gear just seemed to get in the way, the engine always seemed to want to either be revving too high or bogged down, especially on the exit of the last chicane.
Throttle oversteer is possible but not advised in order to go fast with this car. It takes almost all the available power to get the rear to step out there's no leftover power to control the slide. You need to overcome the inherent under steer and then it snaps. I was fighting this car the whole time and I couldn't really forgive it out.

In the end I vote for Firebird, I prefer the looks, and the way it drives over the r34.
Kinda the opposite of last week I liked the caddy best because it was hardest to drive fast - but the amount of power it had always made me smile. The r34 is the harder to drive than the 'bird, just like the caddy was in its duel, but without the power and looks and speed the r34 can't beat the 'bird imo.

 

R31, not R34.

I'm gonna vote the Firebird, too. It was a staple of my GT6 career mode.

 

Oops! I did drive the right car I just kept calling it the wrong one. Reminds me of this huge report that I had to do in grade 5 about the scarab beetle but every time I wrote scarb beetle - there was a lot of red ink on that report when I got it back lol!

 

If XtremeEdward was around, I don't think he'd like what I have to say on this duel. I'm pretty sure you know what car I'm going to be voting for, but it's not without good reason.

Madrid Trial:
R31 - 1:47.830
Trans-Am - 1:46.494

Rotenboden Trial:
R31 - 2:04.328
Trans-Am - 1:59.967

SSR5 Trial:
R31 - 1:46.585
Trans-Am - 1:45.456

As I stated on the online event itself, the R31 is somehow more numb than the R32 GT-R, and it's not even 4WD! The Skyline wound up nose-diving into corners and generally was very understeery. It's not a very fun car to drive as is.

The Pontiac however proved to be more fun in the corners and overall faster. It felt good throwing it into corners, trying to drift around city street corners like in the chase-oriented movies of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. It might have been slower than the Skyline... if I was forced to do the trials while running as a blocker for an 18-wheeler full of booze.

Trans-Am/Firebird gets my vote.

 

GT6 Car Reviews / Comparisons Week 45, Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) vs Pontiac Firebird Trans-Am

Bruce Lee vs Smokey the Bandito



It seems like too long since I've posted on this thread, but I'll return to my trusty old PS3 to start comparing some more cars.



Starting out like usual I took both cars down to a random track to get a feel for the cars. This week I went to a nice user created track called "Long Way Home" in the Eifel region. You could probably download it too if you searched around this website a little. Overall a nice track with some interesting turns/climbs.

Both cars actually felt quite similar, the Firebird and R31 both felt very long and heavy, not exactly on the level of driving a barge, but it could have been better. The R31 had more gears, so I felt a little more comfortable driving it.

Lap times:
GTS-R: 2:57.372
Trans: 2:58,207
Gap: 0.835

So I give the edge in speed on the track to the GTS-R. I don't know if I fell asleep driving the Trans Am, but it seems it's generally been the opposite around here.



The drag race was a strange result, I was expecting the Firebird's burger V8 to trump the sushi turbo of the GTS-R, but that wasn't the case, the Trans Am seems to have a very bad low gear ratio that hinders it's launch, it also has a lower top speed, with the GTS-R also having more gears

Trans top speed: 214 km/h
GTS-R top speed: 234+ km/h

Looks like the GTS-R has speed covered too.



This really is no contest, the GTS-R only comes in black and the Trans Am has many different metallic offerings, not to mention the hood birds.



No contest here either, the Trans Am has so many there are even the special options available, a perk of being modelled in 2012-ish as opposed to the early 00's



I'm giving the edge in tuning to the GTS-R, they both have pretty much the same options, but the choice of turbos means you can be ready for different track styles. The GTS-R takes the cake here.




For sound, the GTS-R also wins, it has a strange, almost older rally-style version of the R35's exhaust, it sounds interesting and has a lineage, as opposed to the Trans-Am having the stock muscle car soundtrack.



For design and styling, I'm on the fence. I find the proportions of the Pontiac somewhat strange for a classic American car. The curves give the car a swoopy feel that not a lot of cars in America had back then. The GTS-R looks almost like a rally car from that era, all boxy and whatnot, so I'm making this round a tie.



This should come as no surprise that the Trans Am is more popular online, the GTS-R is almost as obscure as you can get, and the Trans Am is in about every drifting montage video, so the Pontiac snags this one.



Counting up the scores, I find the GTS-R the overall much superior car to drive. It feels better to me, the gearing, it turns a little better, and so on. So it looks like the Firebird is unfortunately getting the shaft this week. Cool paints bruh, but not enough. So my vote goes to the GTS-R.

Overall pretty watered-down review, didn't get many high-octane thrills while driving either one, so I don't have much to say.

And the verdict is...

No more awful Trans Am remakes!

​