GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    I approve of this battle, but you must PM @Cowboy to suggest future duels. It clutters up the forum with unnecessary suggestions.

    Now where is that picture I was looking for?

    Oh yes.

    From Canada with love.
    image.jpeg
     
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  2. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    This week I chose a pair that's pretty well known in this game, at least one of them. I think you'll like this one, so this week's duel is.....

    01-2011-lotus-elise-press.jpg
    The 2011 Lotus Elise

    vs

    The three 019.jpg
    The 1998 Mercedes-Benz SLK 230 Kompressor!!!


    Roadster vs Roadster, lightweight vs heavyweight, little power vs bigger power. This week's time trial will be at Suzuka East, and I made sure that it ends at the correct time this time ;)
     
  3. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Getting flashbacks of coffee break cones!
     
  4. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Haha the issue of this one seems pretty obvious :lol: But there's great driving ahead anyways, definitely an enjoyable duel ;)
     
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  5. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Ahhhh! Cones are my trigger!!!!

    Fly me to the moon!!!
     
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  6. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    ...
    And let me play among the tracks
    Let me see what spring rates are like
    On Jaguar and March
    In other words
    Hold my 'stang
    In other words
    Baby drift me !
     
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  7. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    I think the Toyota MR2 Spyder (6MT) '02 would have been a better rival for the Elise, but that's just my opinion. Still a good match-up!
     
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  8. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Did a few runs in both cars and found that lap times cross over between the cars. More testing to come!
    But those LED running lights, yuck... I should be grateful that the car isn't Gluten Intolerant...
     
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  9. Draggon

    Draggon

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    I was surprised they are so equal on the track. The Lotus turns better and is sightly faster of course, but you have to be delicate with it or it's going to swap ends. The Benz can be pushed pretty hard, even on CS tires.
     
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  10. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Lotus Elise '11
    1.6L
    133 hp / 7,000 rpm
    118 ft-lb / 4,500 rpm
    876 kg (1,931 lbs)
    388 pp

    Mercedes-Benz SLK 230 Kompressor '98
    2.3L
    192 hp / 5,500 rpm
    207 ft-lb / 2,500 rpm
    1,325 kg (2,921 lbs)
    399 pp

    The extra 700cc's of displacement in the SLK gets you 59 more horses and 89 more ft-lbs of torque. The quote in my avatar was said by Colin Chapman, the founder of Lotus. While not nearly as light as the first-gen Elise, the most recent car is still under 2,000 lbs and a whopping 990 lbs lighter than the Mercedes.




    Top speed on track:

    123 mph - Mercedes
    115 mph - Lotus

    Minimum speed through Turn 1:

    75 mph - Lotus
    70 mph - Mercedes

    As far as looks, handling and such go, it's Lotus all the way. Daily drivability award might go to the Benz, but I'm sticking with my lovely Elise.
     
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  11. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    So unfortunately, a lot of stuff came up for this weekend, so I can't give an in-depth analysis like most of the other duels.

    Suzuka Trial:
    Elise - 1:01.485
    SLK - 1:01.978

    The Elise came out on top for the online trial, but I'm convinced it's by virtue that it's a tight, corner heavy beginner's course that it was tested on. If I had the time to try them on my usual two trials, I'd imagine the SLK would prove to be the stronger vehicle. I feel that for all the time that the Elise shaved on the corners, the SLK made up for on the straights.

    The SLK gets my vote.
     
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  12. Draggon

    Draggon

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    I agree with @ThrasherDBS

    Elise 100.124
    SLK 101.016

    But the SLK is not fussy and loves to be thrown into the corners. Another vote for the SLK :tup:
     
  13. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Usual Trial Mountain lap times (comfort softs, ABS 1 for both, 5 laps each)

    Lotus Elise (S3) >>> 1:44.583
    Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor >>> 1:45.342

    Suzuka Trial (one try each)

    Lotus Elise (S3) >>> 1:00.296
    Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor >>> 1:01.105

    And times on a custom made point to point track (downlad it here), with oil change, and still comfort softs.

    Lotus Elise (S3) >>> 4:18.801
    Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor >>> 4:23.222


    I used a different course than the previous duel, as I wanted something with more straights and fast sections to challenge the Elise a bit more, so I took something I made for a time attack event. Also, isn't it nice to drive a roadster through nice and warm spanish landscapes ?

    In the end, it turned out in proportion of track lenght that the gap wasn't reduced. Obviously the Elise is capable of sensibly higher cornering speeds, but since I ran the SLK first on this course and made my first try in the Elise with the SLK ghost activated, I was pretty surprised to see the Lotus actually pull out better than the SLK from lower speeds in 2nd gear. It is only at the end of the straights where the SLK comes back, scoring higher top speeds while the Lotus hits the higher gears which I find too long for this car. Sadly I didn't registered my Suzuka runs to compare top speeds and time spent on main straight by both cars, but I suspect the difference in time is not that much.

    The SLK is still nice to drive though, much more than you would expect from a Mercedes normally. It likes to move, and holds well under load, and it is pretty easy to control as it reacts progressively. You have to temper a bit the powerslides though if seeking best lap times, but you can get it to 100% quickly. At that point, you'll get a bit of understeer to fight on faster corners mainly, but that's a bit of a nitpick compared to a great part of the cars you can find in the game.

    The Elise though, it's in its own league. Someone not used to those will be frightened if he tries to go 100% with it too soon. But even when being cautious or making mistakes, you're already faster than your best hard-to-achieve SLK lap time. Yet you discover you don't control it with the same inputs you would use on most cars. The right pedal is basically a rear grip switch. Let off the throttle and it will dive in like David Hasselhoff with a drowning blonde in sight - the more speed or weight transfer you have, the more chances it will start to slide. Want to stop sliding ? Hit the throttle and boom, instant grip and traction. Brakes are to be used to decrease speed, and not much other things, and keeping a bit of gas if you need to turn while braking is recommended. But most of all, brakes are meant to be used late... very late indeed. Using your regular braking points will make the car dive in too soon and make you lose time. But brake later, use a further turn-in point, and accelerate soon. You pretty much have to stretch the straights with this car, to sum it up. Of course, the gas pedal is not an on-off switch, and you can really bring the car back towards the apex in fast curves with only a slight movement of your foot, making you barely slow down.

    When looking up close at how their suspensions react, I found out that despite being much firmer, the Lotus actually doesn't reacts worse to bumps than the Mercedes. The Elise's suspension reacts very quickly, but still smooth out some bumps. The SLK on the other hand compresses and extends a lot more, also sporting more bodyroll during corners. It will smooth out the terrain very nicely when the force sent towards the springs is not too high, but on larger irregularities, it is slower to react, and you really feel the suspension working : if the car gets a bit of air, you feel the front compress on reception, then lift afterwards due to the springs kicking back to extension. Even though the Elise will be more likely to get some wheels a bit over the ground on a close succession of small bumps, I was surprised to still feel more confident on that section - although that may also be the flat floor's feat.

    Overall, I think Suzuka East highlights well the differences between the cars : the SLK is a classic "touch the brakes to put weight on front", and even though you can get away with a small tap while keeping some gas to switch direction, the Elise goes through the series of corners with no need to touch the brakes at all, you can control it only with your right foot. But what Suzuka East doesn't shows quite fully is the aero of the Lotus : forget your fears and you'll crush that SLK even more on very fast corners. Having driven a S2 Elise with the ZZ Toyota engine (so a pretty similar car to the one tested here), the aerodynamic grip at high speeds was the first thing to stand out and impress me. The confidence it gives you while taking a freeway ramp at 160+ km/h is really something I didn't expected at first. Overall, I find its behavior to be pretty well depicted in the game, considering all the technical limitations. What you miss out with GT6 though is the scream of the Toyota engine right behind your head, the low position and the amount of feedback you have as you're pretty much tied directly to the aluminium bathtub.

    So yeah, I might be biased, but aside the fact that this is easily the best car I've ever driven or been in (that's considering I touched things like a 400+ Evo 9), I find the Elise more interesting to drive than the SLK. With the later, I did my Suzuka run, and thought "yeah, the car can go in high 1:00 but that's not worth the effort now", giving me the feeling I already saw everything it could show me. The Lotus, however, did made me want to launch back another session instantly to crush that sub-minute barrier. That lap time left me hungry for more and I was really eager to go on : it's just that kind of car that makes you want to keep running for the sake of driving, without any consideration for anything else. It's not the competition, nor the times, or even improving your skills, no... you just want more of that chill. More of that feel of being part of something, of not giving orders to the car, but rather being the car - although GT6 won't send you that with all the intensity the real car will. Yeah, mixing my real life impressions there is probably off the line, but that's a taste you can't get off your tongue.

    The SLK still deserves congratulations, especially since it gave me a lot of fun despite me not being a big fan of Mercedes in general, but as for sheer pleasure, this couldn't be fair from the start in my view. I've met with quite some cars, both virtually and physically, and very few actually really gave me that connection to the road, teaching me all is not a simple matter of performances and figures, and the queen's named Elise.

    ... except maybe if you take into account things lacking body panels, but a queen is not seen parading in mini-skirt :p

    PS : @ThrasherDBS & @Draggon - nice times you guys scored, there's some good competition around here :)
     
  14. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Lotus vs Mercedes-Benz
    Next to each other in the dealership area - nice.

    -----------------
    It's TIME.
    The next fight is a catchweight bout between two open top, rear wheel drive sportscars limited to a 4 cylinder engine.

    In the Calypso Red Corner -a Mid engined fighter who hails from Hethel Norfolk in South Eastern England.
    It is the Series Three Lotus Elise
    AND
    Fighting, in the Linari Blue Corner a front engined fighter who comes from Bremen in North Western Germany.
    It is the Mercedes Benz SLK 230 Kompressor.

    Cheaper, Fancy powered aluminium folding roof, More powerful, More PP More Torque - a Larger Supercharged Engine, Has the Bremen Blower got everything covered?

    No. The Hethel Hellcat is far lighter (It costs money to add lightness!) and a mid engine concept that has been honed over 20 years of development.

    PD thinks the Mercedes has the edge, I tend to factor in the weight of a car, and the Elise is an Olympic Gymnast, compared to the "Used to be a dancer" SLK.


    *** Round 1 *** Weight ***
    Elise - 876kg - 39:61
    SLK - 1325kg - 50:50

    Private Pyle you are a disgusting Fat Body! - 449kg is a huge difference ... That is an Entire modern day Lotus 7 and a 125cc Racing Kart with a Gearshift!

    Elise 10 - SLK - 7​

    *** Round 2 *** Powah ***
    Elise- 136bhp
    SLK - 193bhp
    Only 57 extra horses on a car with a larger engine that also benefits from forced induction.

    Elise 8(18) - SLK 10(17)

    *** Round 3 *** Paint Chips ***
    Elise has 18 and a great range of shades. Mmm, two shades of Dark Green, Nice!
    SLK has 9 a good range but not good enough, and no Dark Green. Inexcusable!

    Elise 10(28) - SLK 7(24)​

    *** Round 4 *** Sweet Designer Looks ***
    The Elise series 3 has a softer look compared to the razor sharp Series 2 lines. Single headlamps make the front a bit less busy. But they have those LED silver glittery running lights... Stay Classy!
    The SLK is the midget brother to the mighty SL... A Simple heavy look comes with it despite the dimensions just because it reminds you of the Battleship Tirpitz sized SL600 V12... It's not bad, but it isn't for me. Sportlich leicht kurz? Sporty Light and Short, compared to the SL600, but not when you stack it up against a Turnip Muncher from Hethel.

    Elise 10(38) - SLK 8(32)​

    *** Round 5 *** Talkie Torque Talk ***
    Bigger Straight 4 with a Supercharger - The Benz crushes the Japanese Naturally Aspirated 1.6.
    The Toyota four pot does well, just not well enough to compete with the hot air coming out of the Mercedes.

    Elise 8 (46) - SLK 10(44)

    *** Round 6 *** Take it to the Limit ***
    Everyone loves a High revving engine...
    Elise 7200rpm
    SLK 6000rpm
    The Toyota puts out 20% more revs - so the SLK gets 20% less points - you have to be fair.

    Elise 10 (56) - SLK 8(52)​

    *** Round 7 *** Credit Crunch ***
    Lotus - 51,000 Kazulas
    Benz - 42,130 Kazulas

    Not sure this reflects how expensive or cheap these cars are in real life... But in GT6 land the Bremen Beefcake is just under 8000 kazula's cheaper than the tractor boy from Norfolk.

    Elise 9 (65) - SLK 10(62)

    *** Round 8 *** Inimgnirnmutua (3 laps) ***
    One of my favourite tracks from the original GT - And part of a three race Championship series for Short cars (That would be 'Kurz' in German - The K in SLK.)
    45.8 (2m18.9) Elise
    47.6 (2m24.4) SLK

    Twisty track and the SLK had some weight related issues with turning and the gear change between 2nd and 3rd felt like the power wasn't quite there... The Elise has such a light touch that over rotation is a constant threat to the boredom of driving a four pot 1.6litre Toyota engined car.

    Elise 10(75) - SLK 8(70)​

    *** Round 9 *** Cape Ring Inside (3 laps) ***
    Simple GT5 track, very easy to cheat here, So as usual time are modest due to my No Grass, No Curbs, No line crossing ethos.
    65.5 (3m18.2) Elise
    65.2 (3m17.6) SLK
    Wow after the one sided win by the Elise at Autumn Ring Mini Reverse (Inimgnirnmutua), I didn't expect much here. and Felt every lift and slow corner, but (Don't laugh!) Cape Ring Inside is a "Power circuit" for a short track.

    Elise 8(83) - SLK 10(80)

    *** Round 10 *** Suzuka East (3 laps) ***
    61.1 (3m07.2) Elise
    61.7 (3m09.5) SLK
    Quite close in the end, but the weight of the SLK hurts it in the corners - Not in Understeer but just a lack of lateral grip so you slide wider due to the mass of the car rather than to any fault of how that weight is distributed.

    Elise 10(93) - SLK 8 (88)​

    *** Round 11 *** GT Compact Car Championship ***
    Overall the Lotus had the edge on anything other than the flat out blasts And even at Cape Ring Inside it was pretty close stuff.

    Elise 10 (103) - SLK 8(96)​

    *** Round 12 *** Handling ***
    Elise - light nimble. The lack of brute power compliments the low mechanical grip the comfort tyres afford you. Rotation is very eager- Even if you are an expert you will need to tone down your inputs and steer the car with fingertips.
    The SLK is a little heavy car. The suspension wallows about in comparison but the balance of the car isn't bad, truth be told - it is just not close to the "Think Russian" levels of synergy you get in the Lotus Elise Mk.3.

    Elise 10(113) - SLK 9(105)​

    *** Round 13 *** Christian Horner on... Horns ***
    Hello, GTPlanet - Red Bull Team Principle Christian Horner here to give you the low down on which car has the very best beep and which has the worst parp.
    horner.png
    (Christian Horner, Yesterday)​
    Elise - Soft weak delicate; a Lady on a whoopie cushion
    SLK - Musical Strong dominant - Like a feisty Spice Girl at the peak of her powers.

    So I, Christian Horner, say that the Mercedes Benz SLK 230 Kompressor has the best horn. And the engine is good as well, Go on Toto, let my team have a few of those V6 turbo hybirds, don't be mean!
    (Disclaimer - I Don't think that was the Actual Christian Horner.)

    Elise 8(121) - SLK 10(115)

    *** Round 14 *** Ultimate Top Speed - B Spec at Route X - 18.82 miles***
    156-151mph (1m23) at 5000m
    160mph (Rev limited in 5th gear)(SLK)
    7m29.5 total time(SLK)

    138-130mph (1m31) at 5000m
    140mph (Drag limited in 6th gear)(Elise)
    8m21.7 total time(Elise)

    The SLK ran away with this one, 8 seconds lead after 5 kilometers turned into a 52 second lead after the flying lap. This maybe down to the B Spec Elise driver staying in 6th gear when it may have been prudent to get power at the top end of the 5th gear rev range... But I don't think it would have altered the result. The Benz only lost 5mph going up the 213 foot (65 or so in Meters, maybe?) incline between the 3km and 5km splits,The Elise lost 8mph and it started 18mph slower at the bottom of the hill.

    This test just underlines how much more Engine the Supercharged Benz 2.3 litre has over the neat 1.6 from Toyota.

    8m06.8 (When Ryk drove the Elise rather than letting B Spec Betty cruise along in 6th gear like a mook!)

    Elise 7(128) - SLK 10(125)

    So a 3 point lead for the Little Lotus, but the Meaty Mercedes is breathing hard down the its neck... As they are both so good to chuck about, I ran another track test at everyone's favourite Spanish track...
    Montjuïc Park? (Shut up Ryk!),
    Circuit de Cataluña? (Shut up Pastor!) -
    ---
    ---- Continued in Part two ----

    slkelisefinal.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  15. pretend racer

    pretend racer

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    I had a go and I was surprised to discover that I liked the merc better. As far as looks I'd much rather show up at parking lot gathering in the Elise.

    But when it comes to driving I'm faster over the long haul in the Mercedes - consistency is key. Perfect balance and FR drivetrain let me hit the first turn near perfect every time, whereas in the lotus I don't think I got it right once. Yes my Elise lap was faster but the lap time range was huge (whether ir not I got that first right hander right), compared to the consistent laptimes I did with the slk.
    Elise: 1:00.173
    SLK: 1:00.744

    The lotus takes a lot of concentration to drive fast which can be fun but In the end I found it frustrating - if you got it wrong mid corner there's no power to help recover that lost time on the straights.

    My votes for the SLK!
     
  16. Draggon

    Draggon

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    2,052
    There's some good driving in the TT's this week, the competition in the Elise is incredibly close. Great times @GT_Alex74 and @pretend racer!
     
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  17. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Competition is quite close this week. Elise times are pretty much inseparable, along with the SLK. Good job guys :):tup:
    No mention of me? I am disappoint (joking :cheers:)
     
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  18. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Location:
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    ==========================================================================================================================

    *** Round 15 *** The Final Round : Circuito de la Sierra, 5pm, Dry Track.***
    The Elise is much better on tight technical circuits, but on power circuits that brutally powerful 4 cylinder 2.3 Engine in the SLK will dominate.

    12 sectors, a Full lap... So 16¾ miles for the Elise to cement its lead or for the Supercharged German to brutally surpress the plucky English.
    As always, Ryk will be driving without any Traction control or antilock brakes or any display of mercurial talent with stock tyres with his trusty D-Pad. No curb hopping, grass mowing or armco kissing.
    This is a wide track with some very lengthy flat out sections that play right into the hands of the SLK. But the Lotus is addicted to high apex speeds and should brutalise the small but heavy German in the technical sections.

    *************************Sector Time ~(°:°)~ Sector Time
    *** Round 15 *** Sector 1 *** 48.1 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 48.3 - SLK
    Slight lead for the Lotus posting a time of 48.1 seconds over the Mercedes' 48.3 seconds, Not a huge margin though.

    (0.2 lead for the Elise) Elise 10(138) - SLK 9(134)​

    *** Round 16 *** Sector 2 *** 44.4 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 45.9 - SLK
    Elise stretches that lead dancing through the tight 2nd sector of the Blue section extending its lead by 1.5seconds

    (1.7 lead for the Elise) Elise 10(148) - SLK 9(143)​

    *** Round 17 *** Sector 3 *** 62.5 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 62.3 - SLK
    The German fightback. Only a couple of tenths but it ends the Old First Section 1.5 seconds down on the Elise

    (1.5 lead for the Elise) Elise 9(157) - SLK 10(153)

    *** Round 18 *** Sector 4 *** 66.5 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 64.5 - SLK
    Power rules the start of Second Section (Yellow) and the SLK takes the lead after taking two whole seconds out of the Lotus
    (0.5 lead for the SLK) Elise 9(166) - SLK 10(163)

    *** Round 19 *** Sector 5 *** 59.4 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 60.8 - SLK
    English counter offensive that see the lead change hands again.

    (0.9 lead for the Elise) Elise 10(176) - SLK 9(172)​

    *** Round 20 *** Sector 6 *** 70.4 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 69.6 - SLK
    This is punch for punch now the Benz has closed the gap toa tenth of a second.

    (0.1 lead for the Elise) Elise 9(185) - SLK 10(182)

    *** Round 21 *** Sector 7 *** 92.0 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 90.9 - SLK
    Start of the 3rd Green Section and the Mercedes takes the lead and pulls a second ahead of the Lotus

    (1.0 lead for the SLK) Elise 9(194) - SLK 10(192)

    *** Round 22 *** Sector 8 *** 48.8 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 51.2 - SLK
    Distaster from the SLK or perfection from the Elise? 2.4 seconds faster from the Lotus letting it leapfrog into the lead

    (1.4 lead for the Elise) Elise 10(204) - SLK 9(201)​

    *** Round 23 *** Sector 9 *** 38.2 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 38.0 - SLK
    The Mercedes tries to claw back the gap. At the end of the old third section the german car is over a second behind

    (1.2 lead for the Elise) Elise 9(213) - SLK 10(211)

    *** Round 24 *** Sector 10 *** 39.1 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 38.7 - SLK
    The Final Pink Section begins and the Mercedes again closing the gap almost a half a second faster in this sector.

    (0.8 lead for the Elise) Elise 9(222) - SLK 10(221)

    *** Round 25 *** Sector 11 *** 67.9 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 66.7 - SLK
    The Mercedes is on fire catching and passing the Lotus on the fast penulitmate section.

    (0.4 lead for the SLK) Elise 9(231) - SLK 10(231)

    *** Round 26 *** Sector 12 *** 48.1 - Elise ~(°:°)~ 48.8 - SLK
    They think it's all over. But the Little Lotus is cornering like it is on rails, the SLK just can't take carry the same corner speed. The Lotus takes the lead and the overall win!

    (0.3 lead for the Elise over the line!) Elise 10(241) - SLK 9(240)​

    *** Round 27 *** Circuito de la Sierra - Full Lap ***
    Actually the Elise was only 0.223 faster... after 16-17 miles...amazing. The Elise is an enigma as it is harder to drive, but once you hit that sweet spot and find the cars balance it transofrms to being effortless to pilot. The Lower top speeds and shorter braking distances coupled to faster cornering speeds make the lap easier in my eyes. The SLK was heading into some heavy brakes zones much faster and it had to scrub off much more speed (Much bigger risk of a lock up for me) and then when it got to the corners it tended to struggle to turn in fully and also get the power down on corner exit due to the 2nd/3rd gear transition. I had to work much harder in the SLK to avoid putting the car off track.

    11m26.047 - Elise
    11m26.270 - SLK
    Elise 10(251) - SLK 9(249)


    I had a scream driving both of these cars. And another day, same track and the SLK could easily have edged a win. But if I am honest even if the SLK had overhauled the Elise, I'd prefer to drive the Lotus again over the Mercedes if they were the last two cars in the Rental Hire carpark...

    As I am a forgetful I didn't know that the Elise had edged to overall time until I typed it up here! - And I miscounted too giving the Elise two more points early in this race... wow even closer than I thought and the SLK won seven sectors to the Elise's five

    The SLK lost here, but it was good fun. A couple of gripes, The Gearbox needed a bit of work 2nd was too short which left me in 3rd gear in a power weakspot for the supercharged engine. Weight is the other one, But you get a folding roof, a schoolboy bully look to it. On its own merits, it is a pocket rocket, but lined up next to the Elise The SLK is just a tubby kid with a 'roided up engine. The Elise was everything I want out of a car in a corner... Dark Green paint, Rear wheel drive, Comfort tyres - Happy Days!

    Ryk Recommends the Lotus Elise

    For some reason the endless rounds here reminded me of the pub game "Dwyle flunking" a traditional & ancient Drinking game. (Dates from way back in the 1960's)
    No wonder the world hates the English! (I'm off to the pub now! Here y'go t'gither!)
     
  19. Arp 273

    Arp 273

    Messages:
    93
    Late to the party as usual:rolleyes:.. but what a party it was! :cool:

    Tested both cars on their default CS tires using the H- shifter + clutch in Arcade mode on a few of my own Course Maker tracks.

    Never having driven the Mercedes before it was quite a surprise. I liked it's handling; soft comfortable suspension but stil a decent turn in and good grip. High speed stability was an issue. Nice mid field battles with AI.

    The real eye opener though was the Elise. Somehow I've not driven it a lot in the past. The car in my garage was tuned for a seasonal so I set it back to defaults. Had to get used to it for 1 lap, after that it was already quicker than the Mercedes and only getting faster. And even more fun to drive. Turn in is fantastic with just a little lift of the throttle; a lot less braking required, so higher cornering speeds. Stability on-throttle is also great, making it easy to accelerate out of the corner. Power is an issue, I was overtaken by the AI on longer straights, or at least they got very close. Actually thats not an
    issue at all, more fun to take them again in the next corner and it makes for great replays.

    Obviously... my winner this week is the Lotus Elise '11.

    (Now off to read the other reviews :gtpflag:)

    Edit..Me=stupid, my Elise had a flat floor installed and a small spoiler :banghead:
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
    no1pal, MidFieldMaven, Ryk and 3 others like this.
  20. Draggon

    Draggon

    Messages:
    2,052
    Man, you sure know how to make a guy feel like a heel....lol :dunce: you had a great time too, Cowboy :tup: Only .609 seconds separating first through 4th in the Elise this week.
     
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  21. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    Sleep deprivation, a minor backache, perfect condition for writing a review. I'll start with the Elise. These cars aren't no stranger to oversteer, and this wasn't an exception. However, the steering is predictable as you'll go into a skid upon corner entry and then power through the rest. The main disadvantage when I tested this one was the acceleration. Sure, it weighs only 800 something kilos, but it only has ~120 HP, making it a sitting duck.

    Then you have the SLK. Biggest memory for me of this is the appearance in the FR challenge in GT3, almost always coming in 4th. This is quite close to the Elise on lap times, but differs greatly in performance. The body roll helps it come through the curves with some minor understeer, but it definitely makes up for it on the straights. This car surprised me, and maybe, just maybe I'll keep it. Quite a choice between these two, but in the end I choose.....

    The Elise

    Both cars tested at Suzuka East, sports hard tires, no aids except ABS: 1.

    Elise: 1:00.782
    SLK: 1:01.389

    And the votes:

    Elise: 5
    SLK: 3

    And the winner is......

    maxresdefault.jpg
    The '11 Elise!!!

    Congrats to @pretend racer for setting a winning time of 1:00.744 in the SLK and to @Draggon for setting a winning time of 1:00.124 in the Elise!​
     
  22. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
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    This week's duel is pretty much the exact opposite of last week. This weekd duel is......

    2008-dodge-challenger-srt8-first-drive-review-car-and-driver-photo-173389-s-429x262.jpg
    The 2008 SRT Challenger SRT8

    vs

    jaguar-xfr-22_600x0w.jpg
    The 2010 Jaguar XFR!!!


    A combined 928 HP, and a combined weight of 3,838 kg. This week's time trial will be a the famed Midfield Raceway, which gives room to compare top speed and acceleration. So with that, let the battle begin.​
     
  23. Draggon

    Draggon

    Messages:
    2,052
    This combo presented me with quite a surprise. I did not expect the Challenger to be so slow. The Jag is loose at both ends, and seems to not know which wants to break loose first. But the Challenger. Just drive it. Not so good. More grip, but it should not be at the back end. It needs some serious rear brake bias or a lot of handbrake to rotate through the turns. I'm a surprising 2 seconds faster around Midfield in the Jag. :crazy:
     
  24. JER_CREST

    JER_CREST Premium

    Messages:
    1,399
    It should be SRT Charger SRT8 Versus XFR not Challenger SRT8.
     
  25. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    Messages:
    5,209
    Location:
    Canada
    That car has already been polled. Also the Challenger has a better shot at the Jag in my opinion
     
  26. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    Well to be fair, there have been repeats before. The one that sticks out in my mind is the 2014 Nismo GT-R. First it was against the newest Viper, and then against the Ferrari 458.
     
  27. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    The Charger actually wouldn't have been a bad choice since it isn't that much slower, but like you said it was polled already (not that I wouldn't have used it again). However, repeats aren't that uncommon here as @ThrasherDBS stated about the Nismo. Besides, the Challenger deserves a bit of attention because it's not that bad for a near 1,900 kg car.
     
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  28. JER_CREST

    JER_CREST Premium

    Messages:
    1,399
    It would be sedan versus sedan, not sedan versus coupe.
     
  29. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    Just to tie up the loose ends from the last duel, I managed to get the cars out and around the Rotenboden and SSR5. This would warrant a vote change, not like the Elise needed any more votes though.

    Rotenboden Trial:
    Elise - 2:02.622
    SLK - 2:01.710

    SSR5 Trial:
    Elise - 1:45.920
    SLK - 1:46.208

    The Elise had a very hard time getting up the hills because of the lack of power, and it was also super-squirrelly on the way down as well. Way too much snap oversteer for my liking. The SLK was more composed and had more power. But the Elise ended up winning two out of three trials, so it would be the winner of my vote.

    I'd still say to pick up the SLK. I like it more.

    Anyway, onto this week's duel.
    _______________________________________________________________

    Yet another duel where I prefer the loser's car, but what can you do? At least, like the last one, the one I liked more won at least one of the trials.

    Midfield Trial:
    Challenger - 1:22.618
    XFR - 1:21.128

    Rotenboden Trial:
    Challenger - 1:51.256
    XFR - 1:50.720

    SSR5 Trial:
    Challenger - 1:36.117
    XFR - 1:36.324

    The jokes that everyone makes about the Challenger being heavy are about as funny as the jokes about Mustangs evidently not being able to turn. (That is to say, not funny at all. Like, Nicole Arbour not-funny.) That said, I can understand how that extra-weight can affect the handling, and boy can I do without the understeer on both the Challenger and the XFR. That said, understeer is your only problem with the Challenger. Take a few laps to figure out some good braking points and then you're set. You can be consistent from then on. The XFR on the other hand wants to send you facing the other way when you hit the gas, and plow you into the barrier when you hit the brakes. It takes some care to balance between the two, but you can expect a fast time one lap, and a crippling mistake the next.

    But, the XFR did win two out of three trials, so begrudgingly, I give it my vote. But again, for long term racing, take the Challenger and ignore the 13 year olds on Car Throttle that think they're hilarious.
     
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  30. pretend racer

    pretend racer

    Messages:
    328
    The jag is faster, more of a handful, looks, and sounds better, has room for the kids, and has got some prestige behind it - for whatever that's worth in a game... Yah it's harder to drive fast consistently but it's more rewarding when you do. The stable understeery nature of the srt8 makes it a sedate (boring?) drive, you can be quite Ham fisted and the srt8 will accommodate you. Whereas, if your not delicate enough on the pedals the Jag will bite you. But, the chassis is almost telepathic in that you can feel everything happening instantly - you can sense oversteer and understeer, before or as it's happening - no such luck with the srt8. The jag is much more satisfying to drive (and faster!).

    I vote Jag!

    I think you're right about the srt8 being faster over the long haul @ThrasherDBS because you can be so consistent in it, but just to be obstreperous (lol good word eh?) I'm gonna go ahead and vote for the difficult car this week. It's just more fun.
     
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