GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    0 Title Card.jpg
    GT6 Duel of the Week Episode 61: Spyker C8 Laviolette '01 vs RUF CTR Yellow Bird '87
    "How to slide without ice"

    Gemasolar_3.jpg

    So in this duel, we have two cars that only know the meaning of oversteer. One is more controllable than the other, while the other one has a classic pattern that many people enjoy driving in video games. Which of the two cars with identical PP will win this round of Duel of the Week? Find out now!

    1 Test Drive and Lap Times.jpg

    This week, the venue for testing on the short track was Madrid Short, and the long track was Midfield.

    Round 1: Madrid Mini
    RUF: 54.788
    Spyker: 53.643

    In the short track, the RUF's rear engine layout makes the back kick out in even some slow, tight corners. Throttle control is necessary for tight turns to ensure you aren't spinning out or sliding for a painfully long time. The Spyker has a much more predictable oversteer more akin to a mid-engine Ferrari like the 458 Italia.

    Round 2: Midfield
    RUF: 1:18.660
    Spyker: 1:16.107

    A bit more of the same here, throttle control was necessary for the RUF again in turns, most notably the turn going over the bridge on the cross. It can step out really easily if you aren't careful. So far in overall driving dynamics, I prefer the Spyker C8.

    2 Drag Race.jpg

    The drag race was somewhat surprising. I was expecting to see the RUF, the previous fastest road car in the world have no problems beating the modestly powered car from the Netherlands. Turns out I was wrong, not only does the Spyker clear the drag strip faster than the RUF, it does so faster as well.

    Drag Times:
    RUF: 46.718 seconds @ 320km/h
    Spyker: 45.831 seconds @ 328km/h

    3 Paint Chips.jpg

    For paint chips, the RUF doesn't even have any. All RUFs in the game have blank-named options that are non-collectible. The Spyker comes in Grey and Black, you can keep both chips too if you want to use them later. Spyker barely wins this round just for having collectible chips. even though it only comes in shades.

    4 Customization.jpg

    Both cars are pretty equal in wheel cosmetics, with the usual standard car upgrades available. The RUF is unable to equip a rear spoiler, so it looses this round. Maybe it should take some notes from the BTR

    5 Tuning.jpg

    Both cars have the standard tuning suite available, but I'm giving this one to the Spyker because you don't need to compensate for the RUF's inherited Porsche fishtailing. The Spyker's suspension is easier to tune, so it wins here too.

    6 Sound.jpg

    For sound, I prefer the smoothness of the Spyker's exhaust, while the yellowbird's makes me long for the noise it emits from Project Cars. Within Gran Turismo, I prefer the Spyker again.

    7 Design and Styling.jpg

    For design on both cars, I'll start with the RUF. I enjoy the old Porsche looks from the RUF. It's a classic design and nearly flawless from most angles. RUF didn't tamper with the exterior too much and the whale-tail spoiler is always a classic design feature of the classic 911's that enhances the sportiness of the car. The Spyker has some very odd-looking proportions, but it looks extraordinarily good considering it's one of the former airplane company's first offerings. It looks kilometers better than the old Sylvestris, that's for sure, even though that car still has an obscure sportscar charm. This car has so much charm that I have to pick it over the RUF. I love my obscure supercars from the turn of the century, and I think this has one of the best designs of any of them.

    I pick the Spyker for this round.


    8 Drifting and Online Popularity.jpg

    Online popularity is definatly going to the RUF, I never see the Spyker out stretching its legs, but the RUF is almost everyone's favourite standard car manufacturer in GT6. It's sad, because I wish I saw the Spyker being used more.

    This round goes to the RUF

    9 Final Thoughts.jpg

    Ronda.jpg

    Starting with the RUF. It's a pretty fine car, but I feel that even though this tuned bruiser is fun to drive at some times, the oversteer and fishtailing can get old real quick when I'm trying to put down some solid laptimes. The design might be a classic and have a lot of diehard fans, but I think that the chassis is a little outdated by today's standards. It corners hard, and it wants to kill you in said corners harder, and that's what makes this car fun to drive.

    Ronda_1.jpg

    The C8 is a pretty well-rounded car. It's faster than the RUF and it corners better also. I think the styling is pretty good, it has nice proportions. The speed is higher than the Porsche, which is certainly helpful. I think if you were to choose the RUF over this car, you'd have to be quite the fanboy of old Porsches to not see the light. This car is faster, it's as simple as that. Not too bad for the Dutch company's first serious outing in the Supercar market. Actually, looking at the jagged model in GT6 makes me want to scour the internet for obscure supercars and play some more GT4.

    And with that, the Spyker C8 wins the duel and the vote.

    ...The verdict is...

    Premium cars next week pls!

    See you next time.

     
  2. Ryk

    Ryk

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    spyker ctr pose.jpg

    Ruf CTR vs Spyker C8 Laviolette

    Everyone calls the CTR the Yellowbird... Because it is yellow and Birds fly...and this car flew around the Nurburgring in the 80's
    larry-bird-action.jpg
    ( 80's Legend Bird, Yesterday)

    The Spyker... Probably has a number of names, but I always see Namazu the Giant Catfish that when it gets "grumpy" its thrashes its tail about - and is the cause of all the Earthquakes in Japan. - Sounds plausible.

    So what about these two tail wagging monsters?

    Ruf CTR.
    This car is based on the humble Porsche 911 but was then "fettled" by Herr Ruf into a beast.
    It comes in Yellow but I guess most people will respray it... But

    Spyker C8
    This car has a very "love me or hate me" aspect to it. Chrome lined intake vents, low wide grill at the front and side mounted headlamps just looks so much like the Japanese Earthquake Warning Symbol to me I can't escape that thought. It will always be Nazamu. to me, and it should mean Nazamu to you, too!


    For the Thousands here on GTPlanet, and the Millions reading this review from around the world. This is the MAIN EVENT. It's TIME.
    The next fight is a Supercar battle bout between two powerful yet nimble rear wheel drive supercars.

    And First, to my left,
    In the Shark Grey Corner -The Challenger a Professional mid engined fighter who hails from (Some place in Holland) Packing a powerful V8 trained at the Audi Gym. This is the dramatic return of one of the very first automobile manufacturers from the 19th century.
    It is Spyker C8 Laviolette, "The Namazuuuuuuu!!!"

    And introducing...
    To my right, The Champion, fighting out of the Canary Yellow Corner, a Rear engined prize fighter who hails from Pfaffenhausen in the Unterallgäu region of Southern Germany. This is the final itteration of the classic 930 shape of the Porsche 911. It holds a string of victories over some of the greatest fighters including Ferrari F40, Lamborghini Diablo and Porsche 959 and held the title of the fastest production car... in the world. It is
    The reigning,
    The undisputed champion of the world.
    The Ruf "Yellowbird" SeeeeeeTeeeeeeARRRRRR


    spyker taleoftape.jpg

    Tale of the Tape
    "Namazu" VS "Yellow Bird"

    4185mm --- Length --- 4151mm
    1880mm ---- Width ---- 1692mm
    1245mm ---- Height ---- 1310mm
    1070kg ---- Weight ---- 1150kg
    526PP - Performance Points - 526PP
    Mid Engine --- Fighting style--- Rear Engine
    4172cc ------ Displacement ------- 3366cc
    Audi V8 ------------ Engine ------ Porsche Flat 6
    Natural ------------ Aspiration -------- Twin Turbo
    2001 ----------------- D.O.B ------------------- 1987
    Zeewolde ------------- Home town ------- Pfaffenhausen
    Flevoland ---------------- Region ----------------- Unterallgäu
    Kingdom of the Netherlands ------ Nationality ----- Federal Republic of Germany​

    This is going to be a hard fight. Both cars are powerful and light with what little weight the car has biased towards the rear of the car. The crowd expect to see a tyre burner of a fight.

    Will the Longer, Wider, Lower and Lighter Spyker be able to deal with the more compact, turbo powered Ruf?

    *** Round 1 *** Weight ***
    Namazu - 1070kg - 52:48
    Yellowbird - 1150kg - 41:59

    First round goes to the sleek catfish from the Dutch polders (Chunks of reclaimed land from the old Zuider Zee). Hard to beleive that just 35 years ago the place had no electricity or tap water.

    Namazu 10 - Yellowbird - 8​

    *** Round 2 *** Fear my Powah ***
    Namazu- 449hp
    Yellowbird - 462bhp

    May have a smaller engine but twin turbos fed by twin intercoolers make sure the Yellowbird has a boosted power rating.

    Namazu 9(19) - Yellowbird 10(18)

    *** Round 3 *** Paint Chips ***
    Namazu has 1 but Black is a solid safe shade of grey, But maybe those silver vents and intakes could stifle using any old respray.
    Yellowbird has 1 - Tweety Pie Yellow - BUT it did sort of make the colour its own, (Name another Famous Yellow car... pretty tough)

    Hard to split them but the Spyker does at least give you the paint chip.

    Namazu 10(29) - Yellowbird 9(27)​

    *** Round 4 *** Sweet Designer Looks ***

    The Namazu has a sleek Catfish look to it which is iconic in distinctly Spyker. Shame the interior isn't modeled as this is a feast of stiched leather, toggle switches and machined aluminium. It sort of reminds me of a turn of the century (19th into 20th!) Science Fiction idea of what the future would have -
    The Yellowbird was the ultimate step for Ruf to beef up the 930 model of the iconic Porsche 911 - However styling wise it is pretty subtle once you go beyond the "Yellow = Danger" paint job. Flaired wheel Arches with a pair of NACA intake vents chiseled out for the twin intercoolers (Oddly a low pressure point on the surface of a car when you drive fast. So wouldn't that make them useless?). It has a single stunted wing mirror, which does dramatically reduce the frontal area of the car, but A Big rear wing and a strengthed roll cage block your rear view mirror inside the CTR.

    This is a tough one as I like the classic 911 shape and flow, but the Spyker is just commanding to look at. So much polished aluminium. I have to edge this to the Nazamu, by a whisker.

    Actually I've had a think about this - and the Yellowbird is just a copy of a 911 - and really needs to have its own look... If show a picture of it to cluster of Randoms - most will say it is a Porsche or a 911... a minority will notice it is a Ruf - The Spyker is an adventure into styling...

    Namazu 10(39) - Yellowbird 7(34)​

    *** Round 5 *** You walk the walk but can you talk the Torque? ***
    The Ruf CTR has a twin Turbo with twin intercoolers on its 3.4 flat 6 that spools out 56.4 kg/fm
    The Laviolette doens't have any Performance enhancing doohickeys (PED's) so it's out and out low end grunt is only 49.0 kg/fm from it's larger V8

    Namazu 9 (48) - Yellowbird 10(44)

    *** Round 6 *** Take it to the Limit ***
    Everyone loves a High revving engine...
    Namazu 7500rpm (Red line)
    Yellowbird 6800rpm
    Oddly the larger Audi V8 engine has a higher rev band.

    Namazu 10 (58) - Yellowbird 9(53)​

    *** Round 7 *** Credit Crunch ***
    Spyker - 254,660 Kazula
    Ruf - 236,630 Kazula

    Pretty close but the Dutch Coupe will eat up those Kazulas faster than the Ruf will.

    Namazu 9 (67) - Yellowbird 10(63)

    *** Round 8 *** Engine Displacement ***
    The Spyker has an Audi V8 with 4172cc
    The Yellowbird is only 3367cc

    Namazu 10(77) - Yellowbird 9(72)​

    *** Round 9 *** I feel the need... ***
    Simple B Spec run at 18.82 miles Route X with a rolling start - The odds favour the smaller more powerful Yellowbird... but will the bespoke gearbox hold together? (I Actualy ranit in A SPec so neither car would get a cheeky slipstream.)

    Clean air Top Speed - (Time Lap)
    215mph (5m36.8) Namazu
    205mph (5m38.1) Yellowbird

    The Spyker has a tall 6th gear (If it were on the Ruf I could use old Boston Celtics hoops Legend, Larry Bird as a comparison, but it isn't so I won't... Even though his picture is near the top of this clucky review.) which kind of suckered me into using it, but when you are way up high in the gears the speed will just melt away. Stay in 5th and run it close to the rev limiter... Just like the Yellowbird - This car feels very eager even in a straight line - far less straight line stability The Ruf seemed to wander about alot on the track - (Could be my controller acting the goat!)

    Namazu 10(87) - Yellowbird 9(81)​

    Right those were the usual throw away things, but the Spyker seems to have an advantage

    *** Round 10 *** Grand Valley Speedway - Reversed***
    2m06.8 Namazu
    2m07.2 Yellowbird

    Very close in terms of laps times, Both are hard to drive - Expect alot of driver errors. And they handle differently so a driver who is more in tune with the pendulum style of handling of a rear engined car will extract alot of lap time - If you are a driver that can't cope with that, then the more you push the slower the car will be.

    Namazu 10(97) - Yellowbird 8 (89)​

    *** Round 11 *** Engine Note ***
    "Nice enough crunchy with a deepness to it that hints to the Northern foothills of the Alps..." Yellow Bird
    "Bubbling engine note that is as smooth as a pond with hidden depths..." Namazu

    But - I preferred the Flat 6 !
    charlie-parker-.jpg
    (A musical note from the Bird, Yesterday.)

    Namazu 8 (105) - Yellowbird 10(99)


    *** Round 12 *** High Speed Ring - Reverse ***
    72.7 Namazu
    72.6 Yellowbird

    The Spyker was up first and was a bit awkward out of the tunnel (Someone turn the sun down!) The Yellow Bird was up next and some how didn't throw it into the weeds and squeaked a narrow win.

    Namazu 9(114) - Yellowbird 10(109)


    *** Round 13 *** Handling ***
    Namazu - light nimble The lack of brute power compliments the low mechanical grip the front tyres afford you. Rotation is eager- but initial turn in can be a bit slippery at times. The main handling issue it power on oversteer on the corner exit. Very easy to smoke the rear tyres and fishtail up the next straight in a cloud of smoke.
    The Yellowbird is a blast to drive. The back end was loose. It wasn't easy to drive - you had to apply yourself - That said, it isn't a car that you can dial back from the edge - The powerful eager engine will soon get you to dangerous speeds. You can hang the back end out quite a lot. but you will need to be on top form if you do push the car to the very edge.

    Namazu 9(123) - Yellowbird 10(119)

    *** Round 14 *** Deep Forest Raceway - Reverse ***

    84.4 - Namazu
    84.5 - Yellowbird

    The Ruf feels caged on this track. You want to give it the beans but the car will seek out danger. The Spyker was slightly less dangerous, its brand over Oversteer is much later in a corner, so it is just a question of being smooth when you pour out the V8 power. The CTR will rotate in a corner very easily.


    Namazu 10(133) - Yellowbird 9(128)​


    *** Round 15 *** Fun to Drive ***

    This is totally based on how much Understeer a car has. So the winner here is the Yellow Bird, which twitches its tail more than the Catfish.


    Namazu 8(141) - Yellowbird 10(138)
    ----------​

    To be honest I love the Yellowbird as it engages you at every corner and over every crest and flat out brow. BUT the Spyker is easier to drive, and has all the benefits of being lighter and even with a more forward biased weight it isn't tainted with soul sapping understeer.

    I have to give it to the Spyker - This time. But I could drive the CTR all day and have fun.

    spykgreen.jpg
    A Spyker in the Olympic Diving Pool at the Rio Olympics, Yesterday​

    (All times set with ABS=0, TCS=0 on Sport Hard tyres and a D-Pad (Old school!))
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  3. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Always happy to help out, @Draggon I knew you had it in you the whole time.

    Course it's been a fight between us for the past three because it's pretty much been you and me as the only consistent competitors.
     
    AgentBlackDog and Draggon like this.
  4. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Unfortunately, I don't really have time to give a full on review because I'm busy with college, but I will say that I prefer the nostalgia and dangerousness of the Yellowbird over the Spyker.

    Tested both at Nürburgring GP D, no aids except ABS 1, SH tires:

    Yellowbird: 1:42.410
    C8: 1:42.109

    And the votes:

    Yellowbird: 3
    C8: 6

    And the winner is.....

    2002 Spyker C8 Laviolette_3.jpg
    The '01 C8 Laviolette!!!

    Congrats to @Vic Reign93 for setting a winning time of 1:37.237 in the Yellowbird, and congrats to @pretend racer for setting a winning time of 1:39.452 in the C8!​
     
    Ryk, MidFieldMaven, Arp 273 and 5 others like this.
  5. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    As a new chapter of my life begins this week, a new duel shall emerge also. Let's dive in.

    @MidFieldMaven, I choose you!

    And?

    2007_mazda_mx-5-miata_convertible_touring_rq_oem_1_500.jpg
    The 2007 Mazda Roadster (NC)

    vs

    2005 Mini Cooper S 014.jpg
    The 2005 MINI Cooper S!!!


    On a more serious note, since I didn't bring my PS3 to college and that I'm pretty busy now, there will not be any time trials until further notice. Sorry for any inconvenience.​
     
  6. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    To keep the Time Trials going, shall I start a temporary club for the sole purpose of having them until you get back to your PS3?
     
    pretend racer and MidFieldMaven like this.
  7. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Go for it :tup:

    You can choose whichever track to trial at as well.
     
  8. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Sounds good.

    So temporary group is now up and running! I've sent invites to the regulars on here that I'm already friends with. If you have any friends that are regulars on here, invite them to the group as well. We'll disband as soon as our fearless leader gets back. Name of the group is "GT6 Duel of the Week TEMPORARY". If you can't find the group, send me a friend request on PSN and I'll add you.

    At any rate, this week's trial shall be at Tsukuba. Let's have a good duel this week!
     
  9. Draggon

    Draggon

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    2,052
    Thanks for taking over @ThrasherDBS

    I started out with the Mini tonight. Not a bad car in its own right, rotates well with a modest amount of understeer, and the wheelspin on corner exit is fun. Hopped into the Mazda, a car I've only driven tuned up. The first lap immediately proved how much better it is. Non only easier to do faster laps, its a pleasure to drive. Good speed, handling, rotation through corners is great. It loves to turn. If I had any complaints, it would be that I feel to utilize its wonderful chassis to the fullest it needs better brakes.

    I've already made up my mind, but the question is, which is the hairdresser's car, and which is the secretary's?
     
  10. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    The Mazda's main joke is that the MX-5 is a hairdresser's car, and the BMW Mini strikes me as a European secretary's car, though when looking up "hairdresser car" both cars show up. So eh.

    Anyway, this one was pretty easy to decide. They might be the same PP, and close in power and weight, but my main deciding factor was definitely drivetrain. I take to FR cars a lot better than FF cars.

    Tsukuba Trial:
    MX-5 - 1:10.070
    Cooper S - 1:11.231

    Rotenboden Trial:
    MX-5 - 2:02.135
    Cooper S - 2:02.079

    SSR5 Trial:
    MX-5 - 1:46.313
    Cooper S - 1:46.449

    These times were fairly close because of stats, but the Mazda won out because it was a little lighter and didn't have the front wheel drive problems. The car doesn't have enough power to get itself into trouble with the rear wheel drive, hence why it gets my vote.

    Current leader of the time trial at the time of this posting is @Draggon with 1:09.969 in the Mazda and 1:10.860 in the Mini. @MrWaflz55 is currently setting his times, will he top Draggon's times? Or will you? Join the temporary group and try your hand!
     
  11. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    0 Title Card.jpg

    GT6 Duel of the Week Episode 62: 2007 Mazda MX-5 vs 2005 Mini Cooper S


    Andalusia_1.jpg

    This week on Duel of the Week, we have two very different cars. One is the best-selling sports car in the world while the other is a modern BMW take on a classic British design. This week we will see what the advantages of rear wheel drive are over front wheel drive and see if these cars can come close performance-wise. Starting with round one like always.

    1 Test Drive and Lap Times.jpg

    This week the two venues were Tsukuba for the short track and Suzuka GP for the long track.

    Round 1 - Tsukuba:
    Mini: 1:12.571
    MX-5: 1:10.814

    On the twisty roads of Tsukuba, the Mini really shows its weakness in the form of understeer. It is quite funny to push the car to the extreme that one of the front wheels starts to smoke going around hard corners, but it looses time in these corners because of the somewhat bad understeer. The MX-5 is surprisingly tail-happy for a tiny roadster with no power. The steering is so light that you can loose control sometimes if you turn too hard, but it doesn't suffer from the same understeer problem.

    Round 2: Suzuka:
    Mini: 2:45.562
    MX-5: 2:44.526

    Generally, the same thing happened on Suzuka. The MX-5 felt better to drive than the understeer-prone Mini. The Mini suffered in the first corners of the east section a lot because of the consecutive tight chicanes.

    2 Drag Race.jpg

    The results of the Drag Race were a little bit different however. Both cars are equally as powerful at 167hp in both, but the Mini produces quite a few more torques due to its supercharged engine compared to the MX-5s un-supercharged leaf blower.

    Drag Race:
    Mini: 1:04.813 @ 229km/h
    MX-5: 1:05.245 @ 228km/h

    Point to the Mini in this surprising turn of events.

    3 Paint Chips.jpg

    Both cars have eight collectible paint chips, the Roadster has 8 on tap, with white, grey, silver, black, blue, British Racing Green-ish and 2 reds.

    The Mini also has 8, with white, 2 silvers, black, blue, purple, dark green and red

    I'm giving this one to the Mini for having a purple chip, which makes the colour ecosystem more diverse.

    4 Customization.jpg

    For customization the Mini has the same rim change options (inch up: 2) as the MX-5, but the MX-5 has 5 whole aero kit options available for use while the Mini can't equip any aero at all.

    5 Tuning.jpg

    For tuning, looks like this round is going to the Mini simply for the fact that it's compatible with the Supercharger. This means that it will have a significant power boost over the MX-5 when fully tuned and be able to hang with it in tight tracks due to the increased low-end powerband.

    6 Sound.jpg

    I was surprised to hear, but both cars have nearly identical sound. It's this kind of swooshing noise common from most of GT's economy car selection. Pretty boring but then again these aren't the pinnacle of hyper-exotics in the game so it doesn't really matter.

    7 Design and Styling.jpg

    This one's a no-brainer. The MX-5 is a pretty thing to look at. Its basic design and small proportions make it an easy car to digest for just about anyone. It's lower down and more aggressive than the Mini, so it radiates excitement more than the Mini does. On the other hand the Mini is a pretty standard hatchback design with the quirky retro-futurist styling we've come to expect. So the point goes to the Mazda for being more exciting.

    8 Drifting and Online Popularity.jpg

    Online popularity for the Miata is way better than the Mini, being much more capable in low-PP lobbies due to the light weight and FR drivetrain. Drifting the Mini is nearly impossible because of the FF drive, and the MX-5 needs more power than what's given to really hold a slide. But if it were tuned the Mazda would be a nice car to drift, and forms the basis for quite a few drift cars in real life.

    9 Final Thoughts.jpg

    Gemasolar_5.jpg

    Staring with the Mini, I think it's safe to say that this is easily the inferior car to the MX-5. It's an economy hatchback after all and doesn't exactly scream excitement. I'm aware that the John Cooper Works model of this car remedies the problems it has with sportiness, but the vanilla version we're left with leaves me unfulfilled and wanting more out of it. It's slower than the MX-5 around most tracks because of its often brutal understeer. Looks like it's coming in second place today...

    Gemasolar_4.jpg

    The MX-5 is a much nicer car to look at and drive. The fun of a Roadster doesn't come from a large V20 quad-super-turbocharged engine, it comes from the lightweight and refined chassis. The turning on this car is unparalleled in its class and gives the car a nice feel to it that makes people enjoy driving it and makes them want to attack a mountain path with it. The handling inspires confidence, and that's what made the MX-5 the joy it is, and has been for the last 20 or so years.

    The final vote goes to the Mazda MX-5.

    And the verdict is...
    I want more haircuts from that hairdresser!

    See you next week!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
    Aaroh, Rotorist, girabyt3 and 7 others like this.
  12. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    One day left people, where are them comparisons at?
     
  13. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Oddly enough, at this point in time, we've got a lot more participants in the online trial than comparisons at the moment. I kinda goofed on the event settings, thinking that August 27th was Sunday, so the online trial is currently closed and the winners will be announced tomorrow after Cowboy makes his post regarding the duel.

    In the meantime, we have two posts with obvious verdicts on the winner. What say you @Vic Reign93 @Rotorist & @Draggon ?
     
  14. Draggon

    Draggon

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    Well, I had planned on being contrary when it appeared I had the top time in the Mini, choosing it over the Mazda. However, Rotorist edged me out by a couple tenths, so it looks like I'm just going to call it like I see it. I made my mind up on the first lap in the......Mazda MX-5! The verdict is soooo obvious.

    And thanks again @ThrasherDBS for filling in during our dear leader's absence :tup:
     
    Cowboy, Rotorist, Ryk and 1 other person like this.
  15. pretend racer

    pretend racer

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    Yep sorry I didn't manage to get any laps in. I went to have a go tonight and the event was closed. Hopefully I can join in next week.
     
    ThrasherDBS likes this.
  16. Ryk

    Ryk

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    2005 Mini Cooper S - 2007 Mazda Roadster

    -------------

    In the Anglo German corner we have the bulked up Bavarianised version of the 1959 Sir Alec Issigonis Classic - weighing in at two thousand six hundred and sixty eight pounds Fighting Out of Munich Germany by way of Cowley in Oxfordshire England.
    Trained by Frank "Famous Morrocan" Stephenson, who has also coached such fighters as the Ferrari F430 and the fan favourite the McLaren Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee.
    Minnie Cooper Ess!

    And introducing!
    In the Anglo Japanese corner we have the spiritual sucessor to the Lotus Elan... Weighing in at two thousand five hundred pounds Fighting out of Hiroshima in Chūgoku, Japan we have the third Generation of the most popular sports car... In ... the ... WORLD.
    Trained by head coach Moray "Not Ian" Callum, we have
    Emm Ecksdashfihv-Meearrtah-Rohdstah by Mazdaaaaar.


    The Fighters square off, Big chunky Mini (?) and the slightly more beefy looking than usual third generation Mazda MX5/Miata/Roadster.


    Referee
    "This is going to be a clean fight, no spitting, no name calling, low blows, no hair pulling or scratching at the eyes. When I say Brake, I expect you both to brake. Emm do you have any questions? Minnie do you have any questions? Okay touch bumpers if you wish then back up and let's have a clean fight ladies."

    *** Round 1 *** Is that Front wheel drive? ***

    It's Over! I have never seen such ferocity from one fighter and such lack of rear wheel drive in another in what must be one of the biggest mismatches ever. The crowd are stunned - the Mazda charged over to the Mini by BMW and landed a savage blow... the Mini has no answer, it is one of those horrible front wheel drive cars.

    The referee is man handling the Mazda away from the lifeless form of the Mini Cooper S. Oh thats alot of damage.

    The Doctor runs into the ring and tries to get the Mini to respond...He pulls out one of those Magic Trees Kevin Spacey used in the Film 'Se7en'. Yes a flicker of High Beams and the windscreen wiper springs to life... The Emm Ecksfihv is doing donought in the ring, and has her top down and the crowd have gone wild!
    Meanwhile in the corner is a broken down and defeated Minnie Cooper sat in a pool of her own radiator fluids and it is too much for the her and her windscreen washers soak the car, Big Tears - Big Tears...

    Here we have the Announcement..

    The Referee called an end to this fight announcing the winner by KNOCKOUT after 4 seconds of the very first round.
    Mazda Emm Ecks Dash Fihv Mee Arr Tah Rohd Stah!


    ----

    Well that was a brutal demolition job, Joe.

    Indeed Mike. The referee may get some flack on social media for what many are calling a premature stoppage but he had just had to split the Namazu vs Yellow Bird super fight which was 15 rounds of sweet scientific oversteer. So much oversteer I think we were spoilt to the realities of just how inadequate a front wheel drive town car is. And after Emm floored Miss Cooper that was it, Good Night Vienna. The referee should be commended and he must have saved Minnie a brutal beat down.

    Post fight interviews - Highlights

    Mini loses.jpg

    (Photographs of Minnie Cooper's mashed up face, yesterday)

    Minnie Cooper
    "I feel rocked and a little groggy, I mean a little cute girly car with a saggy floppy fold down roof. How can she beat me. I've been training hard been eating all of the best Bratwurst, strudel and drinking foam topped stiens of Beer to get my weight up. I just don't understand it... I was in a film with Mark Wahlburg, I was in Hollywood..."

    Emm Ecksdashfihv Meearrtah Rohdstah
    "That car doesn't belong in my class. She is jealous of my skills, My pin point handling, my ride comfort, my fabric roof and my superior good looks. Minnie is a big slow zombie, plodding along in a line unable to change direction, I danced around her, punished her for her terrible weight distribution and antique powertrain. I mean front wheel drive. I was amazed she didn't enter the ring with a man in front of her waving a red flag. They should ban these front wheel drive travesties."


    --Minnie and Emm were seen together gossiping about how big the RS is on the Ford Focus and Celebrity Things, specifically Car Dacia Things...
    (Hey it isn't easy to get a link to vapid Hairdresser types and empty Female themed scripted reality shows!)
     
  17. Arp 273

    Arp 273

    Messages:
    93
    That little Mini actually turns in pretty good off throttle. I had fun with it which I didn't expect. I think it sounds a bit better than the Mazda.

    The Roadster ofcourse has fantastic balance and great power to grip ratio so its planted and playfull at the same time.

    Somehow both cars are underpowered in aracade mode. It took me a while to actually win with either one. Just had a good race, with multipe close battles and AI who really did not want me to win, and would come back and overtake me, even bump passing when there was a little gap. The car I was driving will get my vote this week and it was the Mini Cooper S.
     
  18. Rotorist

    Rotorist

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Thanks for the invitation to this group in GT6 community ThrasherDBS! I enjoyed throwing both of them in Tsukuba. NC is much better in handling and wins by almost a second the Cooper S in hotlapping concluding the lap at around 1.09,5. The 50-50 balance is surely the best for the handling even if low-range torque is much better in Cooper S but it can't handle that spinning its tires all the time when exiting the hairpins in 2nd gear. Using the 3rd gear instead gives almost the same time as it doesn't spin.

    Conclusion: MX5 NC all the way!
     
  19. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Location:
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    Well I'm in the MX-5's corner on this one. :D

    Whilst not as punchy in the middle of the Rev range in comparison to the supercharged Mini, I felt it was more balanced and responsive through the middle part of Tsukuba and more wanting to rotate when required.

    Make no mistake, both cars are good cars for enthusiasts despite the image they are given and are capable of a lot of fun, but the MX-5's approach to simplify and add lightness appeals to more.

    And the top can go down too. :p

    My pick: Mazda MX-5 NC :tup:
     
  20. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    5,538
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    Due to my very tight schedule and laziness that I have in my free time, I once again didn't have time to give a full review of these two. I will say from past experience,

    The Miata is better.

    The votes:

    Miata: 7
    Cooper S: 1

    And the clear winner is.....

    2007-Mazda-MX-5-Miata-front-three-quarters.jpg
    The '07 Roadster RS!!!

    Congrats to @Vic Reign93 for setting a winning time of 1:08.694 in the Roadster and to @Rotorist for setting a winning time of 1:10.600 in the Cooper. And a very special mention to @ThrasherDBS for making the temporary club. Helps me out a ton at this busy time :cheers:
     
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  21. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Always happy to help out. Does this mean you're back to setting up the trials from here on out, or shall I still keep the club up?
     
  22. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    I did get my PS3 to college, but haven't set up the internet on it yet, so I think you'll have to do the trial for one more week.
     
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  23. CrazyJohn

    CrazyJohn

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    Argh, too late! Was stuck on PS4 since I got pCars. Anyways I will hop in for the rest of the duels.
     
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  24. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    To add on to my stressful life at the moment, it appears as though I have picked up a summer cold :grumpy:. Ugh, enough of my complaining.

    Whatcha got for us @MrWaflz55?

    How fast we talking about?

    Sounds good to me!


    CTR 2 - Silver - Photo 01.jpg
    The 1996
    (Porsche 911 993 Turbo) RUF CTR2

    vs

    ferrari-f40-1-001.jpg
    The 1992 Ferrari F40!!!


    It's @ThrasherDBS's call on the track for this week, but in my opinion Monza would be a good place to test the speed of these two, especially since one of them is hard to control.​
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  25. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Monza would definitely be the best place for the Ruf to test its mettle against the Ferrari's home turf, but to make things more interesting, this week's trial will take place on the 80's variant of Monza!

    Best of luck to all of you!
     
  26. pretend racer

    pretend racer

    Messages:
    328
    I managed to get my duel in early this week. :cheers:

    First, I drove the Ferrari because I figured it would be the harder car to drive. Turned out I was right, but for a completely different reason than I was expecting.

    The steering has nice weight to it, and it has great turn in. it's got a long gearbox which takes a bit of getting used to. It did seem a little too tall for monza though. The brakes are pretty good, could be better, but are easy to modulate (abs1). The suspension does a great job of going around corners, and absorbing curbs.

    The problem with this car is that when you lift off the throttle, even just slightly, while just beyond the apex, it will just instantly want to do a 180 degree pivot - it makes driving this car a unique experience because I haven't driven another car in gt6 that behaves like this.

    So you need to plan on braking early and keeping your right foot planted through the corner to keep the back end in check. It's pretty cool once mastered but if you lift that throttle you can lose a ridiculous amount of time real quick. It's backwards to most cars because its pretty much impossible to get on throttle power oversteer, it just rails through the corners, but if you try to adjust your line with the throttle be prepared to catch a slide instantly.

    Next up was the Ruf. First, I noticed the steering a little lighter than the Ferrari. It seemed to accelerate better too, maybe cause of the extra gear? So I take through the first chicane and I get on the throttle early to swing the backend around and I ended up understeering almost off the track before I realized what was going on. I wasn't expecting to experience corner exit on throttle understeer.

    I like cars that have a little corner entry understeer, so corner exit understeer in the Ruf just felt weird, especially after driving the F40.

    The brakes seem weaker than the F40. After a couple of laps adjustment period I started to get consistent and I noticed that inside wheel spins a lot on corner exit - is this why it understeers? Anyways, it was kinda funny leaving "one wheely peely's" the whole way through 3rd gear on the last right before the final straight. I had nice new black "driving line" to follow through that bend after a few laps, lol.


    Verdict time.
    So the Ruf is quicker per lap and is safer to drive, but it does behave differently than expected, and yet it still made me smile. It has the personality of a friends kid brother who does dorky stuff and it legitimately makes you laugh even though it's kinda silly.
    I kept thinking to myself I don't know why it's doing (insert weird characteristic here) but it seems to work.

    The F40 is an andrenaline pump, cause your on the edge, mistakes are costly, consequently, the satisfaction for getting right is much bigger. But every second is a chance for that thing to cost you time. I bet it would be impossible to ever "feel" like you drove a perfect lap in that car even if you could set a world record time, I bet you'd be like, "if I just did this or that I'd be that much quicker". No matter what, your gonna feel like you could have went faster. That's the allure of the F40.

    My vote is for the F40 because like that old saying about poker, "it only takes a few minutes to learn but a lifetime to master", and you'd never get bored driving that car.
     
  27. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Both of these cars are certainly eye-catchers. I was amazed when I would regularly see a Ferrari F40 around my nowhere town. (Until I got closer to it and noticed a few details off, and then realized I've been fawning over a Fiero with a bodykit.) The Ruf looks a bit overdesigned for my tastes, but at least it has the performance to back up and justify the swollen hips and thick wing.

    This is another duel with the bread-and-butter "understeer vs oversteer" dynamic. While these cars are eye-catchers, there are other cars I prefer over these two based on their behavior. I have gripes with both of these cars.

    Monza (80's) Trial:
    CTR2 - 1:54.572
    F40 - 1:55.992

    Rotenboden Trial:
    CTR2 - 1:42.920
    F40 - 1:43.429

    SSR5 Trial:
    CTR2 - 1:33.603
    F40 - 1:33.082

    In the spirit of making this a "period" duel, the 80's version of Monza seemed to be the most appropriate place to test these two cars out. Same old long straights, though some extra tight corners to throw off those of us that have gotten used to the modern configuration. Also, the Italian GP is this weekend. So... yeah.

    Representing Team Understeer is the Ruf CTR2. We've tested all the Rufs in the game up to this point, save the 1986 BTR. In all the previous duels with a Ruf in it, I praised them for how fun and speedy they were, all being the ever-finicky Rear engine, Rear wheel drive layout. This was especially the case with the CTR "Yellow Bird" we tested out a couple of weeks ago. Now, with the CTR2, this one is 4WD. A tuned 550PP CTR2 got me through one of the very difficult Seasonal Races at Cote d'Azur. That said, the stock version of this car leaves much to be desired. As the successor to the CTR, one expects great things. Ever see the sequels to movies and games that really kick ass? Terminator 2, The Dark Knight, Twisted Metal 2, things like that? The CTR2 seems to me like the sequel to a great movie/game that doesn't quite measure up, or completely misses the work of the original, while giving off the impression that it's trying too hard. Kinda like 2 Fast 2 Furious, The Crow: City of Angels, and Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls. This Ruf is nowhere near as fun as the rear-wheel drive siblings.

    From Team Oversteer comes the much-sought after Ferrari F40. One of the premier supercars that most kids had a poster hanging on their wall for in the 80's (if it wasn't a Lamborghini Countach). This was the last car Enzo Ferrari personally approved the production of before he passed. Depending on who you ask, this may or may not have been a supercar built to face against the likes of the Porsche 959. (Yet another 80's automotive heartthrob.) This was meant to be a hurrah, and the success of this car inspired the F50, the Enzo, and the LaFerrari. Though, as high a pedestal people put this car on, this is far from the most amazing piece of machinery to drive. Oversteer can be fun in cars, but such isn't the case in this car, which I guess I'd attribute to its aerodynamics and ride height. It feels very stiff when it starts kicking the tail out. Cars like the Viper, the classic Shelby Cobra, and the CTR have a more fluid and bouncy oversteer that's pretty fun. (The other oversteer I don't like is "breathe on the gas, get flung into the wall") With the F40, there were a good handful of times when it would about-face out of corners. Definitely not something you want to happen.

    The Ruf's power is ultimately what made it triumph over the F40. Both were a bit clumsy in corners for their own reasons, but the Ruf's straightline power more than made up for the small weight margin between the two, which earns it my vote.
     
  28. Rotorist

    Rotorist

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Greece
    Great analysis. Absolutely agreed on F40 and CTR2 handling description. I hope I find some time this week to time trial those monsters. I know I will like F40 more as a go cart with 500 PS gives much more fun on a track than a fast train. If tested on Suzuka or Laguna Seca F40 would win me thinks. Monza needs stability due to very high speeds and 4WD of Ruf's is miles ahead of F40's twisty personality.

    UPDATE: Now that I tested them in Monza and CTR2 is 1 sec faster than F40 with F40 having more time in it than Ruf I can say those cars are too different to be compared. Parabolica (especially if using a wheel and pedal setup) is THE corner to learn a car's chassis tendency and they were day and night there. CTR2 is a ultra-fast GT vehicle of its time and F40 is a race car in disquise. Simple as that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
  29. Thematic

    Thematic

    Messages:
    2,912
    I tried this, sort of. '87 spec F40 and CTR2 boosted (sic) to 540 PP, which was five short of the competition. I had comfort soft on both, usually CM on the Ferrari. I only gave one lap for both, which is why I didn't get anything out of Laguna Seca (went off-track in the RUF).

    Suzuka.

    RUF, 2:27.773
    FERRARI, 2:25.023
     
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  30. CrazyJohn

    CrazyJohn

    Messages:
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    RUFs are critically overrated on GT6. At least for me. The Ferrari is better for me in terms of looks, on track behaviour (I like oversteer on GT6!) and it is a classic Ferrari. Come on.
     
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