GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    Thanks a lot for the confirmation! F40 is great in handling just too sudden when losing grip. That's why I call it a 500PS big kart. Needs you to be on your toes all the time. That makes it very rewarding when done well. Ruf is more an on-off throttle-brake type of car handling wise. Brake as late as possible, accelerating as early as possible. Typical old-school 4WD. I will try to tt them in Laguna Seca then now you tested in Suzuka. :cheers:
     
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  2. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    My favorite RUF in-game is actually the slowest, but also the only one with its engine directly behind the driver's face, like the F40.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Been having some trouble finding time to write reviews aka mostly lazy but also tired...Will write something about the last two duels soon!
     
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  3. Nismonath5

    Nismonath5 Premium

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    Hey hey, fellas!
    For once I've had so much free time this week, I figured I may as well partake in the Duel Of The Week as well as the Car Of The Week! :D

    So... where to start..
    The F40! Arguably the more famous option, it was the LaFerrari of the 90's, being the first 200mph prancing horse. It has a smaller displacement, but two more cylinders compared to the RUF, and is the more attractive option in my opinion. On GT6, this argument is helped by the fact that it's detailed, and the RUF isn't. When driving, it takes some getting used to, but once you've found its limits, and tailored your driving style accordingly, the F40 becomes a lot of fun. It will still misbehave if you're careless, but all in all it's a true 90's supercar experiece. :tup:
    Time at Monza: 2:26:137

    Now for the RUF
    ... Cheaper, 4WD, an extra gear, and totally not a Porsche, what are you talking about?!
    It's marginally lighter than the F40, and actually faster in a straight line. In fact the only thing faster was Gordon Murray's masterpiece, the McLaren F1... However, driving it is less enjoyable than the Ferrari. It feels more as though it wants to kill you, especially when launching it into a chicane at breakneck speed. It's also a standard car, which disadvantages it...
    I have noticed though that all the RUFs seem to be quite detailed, with the obvious exception of an interior. It's not like they're all pixellated and rubbish (like the Peugeot 206 Rally car or Ford Falcon XR8 V8 Supercar... :crazy:)
    That's not to say it's a bad car, it's just when pitched against the F40, it doesn't shine as bright. :tdown:
    Time at Monza: 2:29:118

    I'm vouching for the F40 on this one, sorry for my unusual lack of pictures, I haven't had the time to do the photography today. I'll hopefully have them up by the end of the week...
     
  4. Ryk

    Ryk

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    You wait for one Ferrari then 60 come along at once...
    SH-F40-01c.jpg
    Silverstone, Yesterday

    Hard to get track time here in Englandshire.
    But just look at all that beautiful ABS=0 action.

    Review much later!
     
  5. VspecZR1GT2RS89

    VspecZR1GT2RS89

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    Sorry for not doing some of the rewiews, some of the previous ones were interesting and with a lot of excellent writeups! :) But with life and some laziness from doing other things have been in the way for me and I couldn't do some of them! :grumpy:

    But before my college classes begin, I have sone time to do some, edpecially this one! Been having a 90's throwback for sometime so this will be fun! :D

    Anywhoo.... Glad to see everyone here with some newcomers also writing some great reviews! Keep it up!
     
  6. Arp 273

    Arp 273

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    The CTR2 understeers when pushed. The F40 oversteers... a lot!

    With its 4 wheel drive the CTR2 is safer, easier to drive on the limit and (track depending) a little or a lot faster then the F40. It looks sort of cool too, I have mine in radioactive green :crazy:. Unfortunately the brakes are not so good which isn't helpfull at all when speeding to a tight chicane :banghead:

    The F40 is a classic. It looks cleaner, more sophisticated and it sounds fantastic. Brakes are great. Gearing is a bit long, on track you'd need a close ratio box. But it sounds great pulling away from a corner in 2nd and going all the way up the rev range. Tracktion is really good, as long as it is in a straight line :boggled:

    The handling definately something to get used to. Really have to watch your entry speed and line into a corner. Otherwise there's that cloud of smoke again :)

    Had both fun and frustration in both cars. I learned I need to drive better. Usually my corner entry is too late and too fast. These cars are a great way to get rid of these bad habbits! :p

    Overall my vote this week goes to the Ferrari F40

    Enjoy the F1 @ Monza! :cheers:
     
  7. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Ferrari F40 vs Ruf CTR2
    1992 vs 1996

    So I got a couple of Celebrity F1 drivers Drivers - Hey this is GTPlanet - you lot deserve some drivers with a certain style.

    Mansell vs. Hill

    Our Nige with a crash tested certificated 'tache and Damon with his razor sharp sideburns and suspiciously black hair for a man of his age...

    f40ctr2banner.jpg


    528PP --- Performance Points --- 537PP
    450,000cr ------- Price ------- 297,110cr
    V8 DOHC ------ Engine -- Flat 6 SOHC
    2936cc ---- Displacement ---- 3600cc
    58.8 kg/fm -- Torque -- 69.9 kg/fm
    4430mm -- Length -- 4290mm
    1981mm -- Width -- 1735mm
    1130mm -- Height -- 1275mm
    1352kg -- Weight -- 1380kg
    478bhp -- Power -- 512bhp


    Loads of history to these cars. The F40 was a spin off of the ill fated 288GTO.

    It came out when Lamborghini and Ferrari had cars that were "FULL '80's" - The Pagani styled Countach was a big haircut shoulderpadded style over substance of a car and Ferrari had the Big V12 Testarossa which liked its strakes...
    The F40 was a "Thumb to the nose" to those "Fashion" cars. This was a car that was for drivers. Fancy scissor doors... Not for the F40- you get a door that opens like a normal car... and On the inside a piece of string... And don't worry about getting dirt on the carpet - Ferrari have made that problem go away - Do they use statically charged deep pile carpets with metalic fibres that force particles of dirt to the edge of the each of the hand stiched matts... Nope Ferrari chose to have no carpets at all! Lots of Carbon Fibre epoxy glue seals. You may not be able to taste the lightness but you can certainly smell it. Glorious.
    mansf40.png
    Nigel Mansell in his Ferrari F40 - Yesterday

    The CTR2 was the Ruf tough version of the 993 Porsche 911, Iconic Air Cooled Flat 6 twin turbo charged added to the car at the very last second as it chugged down the assembly line. But four wheel drive mated to what is normally an extremely touchy RR chassis... could it have made the car the best of both worlds? Stable yet able to rotate in corners?

    Wow they are at it already! No time for introductions!


    *** Round 1 *** Pop Up Headlamps ***

    And the winner... Oh no Ryk you can't pull this again! But the Ferrari does have sweet Pop up headlamps. The Ruf hasn't.


    *** Round 2 *** How many Exhaust pipes? ***

    CTR2 =2
    F40 = 3

    Oh the Italian car just keeps on with the gimmicks with a central exhaust for the turbo wastegate one one either side for each bank of the V8...


    ***Round 3 *** Sweet good looks ***

    The F40 was penned by Pinninfarina's Leonardo but theCTR2 was a honed version of Nick "Mad" Hatters revision of the 911.

    Now Before I looked at the cars I would have thought the Ferrari would have been best, but the CTR2 has really nice proportions and a soft roundness to it.

    The F40 is odd, a Step back from Clowncar supercars with function being way more important than strakes and scoops and scissor doors or even paint. But is it a bit generic in looks, Does it lack character - Or shoudl it bejudge what is underneath the Kevlar skin?


    *** Round 4 *** Deep Forest Raceway -SH- ABS=0, TCS=0 Talent =0 ***
    1m37.119 + 1m34.743 = 3m11.862 (CTR2 Damon Hill)
    1m26.745 + 1m22.606 = 2m49.351 (CTR2 ASpec)

    1m35.713 + 1m34.380 = 3m10.093 (F40 Nigel Mansell)
    1m26.244 + 1m23.344 = 2m49.568 (F40 ASpec)


    What a mess - both pretty even. Old F1 drivers had the Ferrari win but when Ryk drove on a clean lap the CTR2 was able to put down a fractionally better lap time.



    *** Round 5 *** Fun to drive? ***

    Well we've had a number of great desciptions of the way each car feels to drive.
    The CTR2 had a soft wallowy quality and would understeer happily if you went in too hard. The F40 was more my cup of tea, lots of counter steering needed and balancing the car. The Gears felt a weak point, just two gears for 0-120mph... plenty of scope to be very low in the rev range if you are a duff driver (Me!)

    Both are not easy to drive and have character that made me want to drive them both again. The F40 is more demanding the CTR2 is a car that just grinds the lap away, the F40 is a knife that cuts away the laps.
    -------------------

    Which would I pick?

    This isn't an easy pick - And to be honest If I picked either I would be happy with the one I had. The Ruf is very civilised and forgiving, and if you have your "Say No to Understeer" T-shirt when you attack a corner lap times will tumble. The Ferrari requires more attention in the corners.

    Which to pick? One is cheaper, One is less PP, they both Lap about the same.
    I could argue that a 911 needs to be a tail happy monster and that this Ruf takes the fun/danger out of the drive. But I think I have to go on the history of the car and ALOT of F40's were bought by investors and not drivers... it was a car to buy to make a bucket of cash when you sold it later. The Ruf hasn't got that Brand Recognition that made so many F40s lived in plastic tents in some warehouse when they should have been allowed to drive the track in anger.

    I would pick the CTR2 as it is a four wheel drive car that wasn't hamstrung with terrible understeer and was fun to drive - which made a stand out 4WD car - It is cheaper too and it is really growing on me in terms of the lines.
    ctr2win.jpg
     
  8. Draggon

    Draggon

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    I'm having great trouble without the driving line. I need new glasses and the track is just so blurry I can't really see where to brake. My only lap that didn't end in the gravel was pitiful. Might give it another go today.....
     
  9. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Review is starting, just need to lap these two cleanly. :ouch: I'll be done in an hour or two
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  10. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    GT SPORT DELAYED_
    GT6 DUEL OF THE WEEK EXTENTION UNLOCKED_


    0 Title Card.jpg
    GT6 Duel of the Week Episode 63: Ferrari F40 '92 vs Ruf CTR2 96
    Two turbo super-sportscars of the 90's, lets see who can boost ahead this week...

    Syracuse_2.jpg


    This week we have two cars that I chose due to their similarities and the fact that I did watch the Top Gear Ferrari F40 vs Porsche 959 Comparison. I figured the Ruf CTR2 would be a suitable stand in, seeing as it's a 911-based 4wd supercar from the 90s. I was surprised to see how close these two cars actually were, so here goes the review.

    1 Test Drive and Lap Times.jpg

    This week I decided to be a hipster and go to the 80's version of Brands Hatch instead. The original are always better, right? Well, let's see if that's the case with the F40 and CTR2, are they better than their modern day counterparts the CTR3 and Enzo/LaFerrari? Probably not in lap times, but in other ways it's all subject to your own opinion.

    Trial 1: Brands Hatch GP 80's
    Ruf: 1:39.998
    Ferrari: 1:38.816

    So the Ferrari seems to have much nicer handling than the Ruf, which seems to understeer quite considerably in some corners, but that doesn't stop the Ferrari from having some crazy fishtailing problems in some corners too, mostly the low speed ones. So both cars are a little clumsy in their own ways. But what if we took them to a track made almost entirely from corners?

    Trial 2: Tsukuba Circuit

    Ah yes, Old Reliable, the best place to test any sort of car's handling is the Japanese track of Tsukuba, not located in Tsukuba, but in the city of Shimotsuma, a city beside the city of Tsukuba. To test each cars handling, this was the right place for the job with multiple twists at nearly every angle and a nice large final turn.

    Ferrari: 1:02.548
    Ruf: 1:03.171

    The same thing happened, the Ferrari steps out a little too much and the Ruf doesn't step out at all, almost to the point where it's stepping in? I dunno, more on that in the final thoughts.

    2 Drag Race.jpg

    What I thought would happen certainly happened, let's be blunt here, the Ferrari's acceleraton is borderline terrible for a car like it. There's absolultey no low-end torque with all of the Ferrari's power from the turbos being put at the higher powerband. This allows the much more well-rounded turbos of the Ruf to let it accelerate faster and easier in combination with its 4WD and engine over the rear wheels to give it a considerable amount of grip.

    Drag Times:
    Ruf: 45.744 @ 334km/h
    Ferrari: 47.002 @ 326km/h

    The Ferrari's high-end powerband wasn't enough to save it in the end and the victory goes to the Ruf in a straight line, following in the footsteps of the original CTR.

    3 Paint Chips.jpg

    Both cars, plainly put, get an F- for paint chips, the Ferrari comes in the common Rosso Corsa, while the Ruf has a whole collection of the strange unnamed, uncollectible chips from the other Ruf models, so there really is no point in buying either car for collecting chips.

    4 Customization.jpg

    Both cars have the exact same customization options available. The Ferrari and Ruf both have no aero attachments but have customizable wheels, so again both cars get an F-. PD really couldn't find the time to model an LM-Style wing for the F40, could they?

    5 Tuning.jpg

    I'll be very blunt again, never put the high-range turbos on the F40, have fun accelerating off the line with that one, might be fixable with the LSD, but I'd rather just have a Ruf to tinker with.

    6 Sound.jpg

    The Ferrari has the memorable gruff tone and hearing it wind up through second is a nice experience in GT6, I found the Ruf was kind of bland and forgettable in comparison. It lacks character.

    7 Design and Styling.jpg

    This is an extremely controvertial and subjective round in this particular comparison, Many people love the 993-generation Porshce over the Ferrari F40, but I am personally more inclined to the F40. It looks like the final evolution of the 288 GTO, and seeing the lineage in design is pretty fascinating. I prefer my 911s stock though, so the Ruf looks like just another tuner Porsche to me, even though it has a little more restrained styling than say, a BTR or the ones with the wide bodykits and huge rear wing/intake combos that thrive in Need for Speed, which makes me even more hungry for stock Porches to come to GT

    8 Drifting and Online Popularity.jpg

    Never drift the Ruf, it handles terribly in a slide if it even initiates one in the first place. It understeers so much there isn't even really a point. I'd have to choose the Ferrari even though that's not very good at sliding either, but at least it's rear-wheel-drive. Online the F40 is way more common than the CTR2, which is why it makes me happy to see people pull it out every once in a while.

    9 Final Thoughts.jpg

    Now it's time for the final thoughts, starting with the Ruf.

    Syracuse_1.jpg

    The Ruf is a very fast car in a straight line, but this tuned Porsche from the 90's just doesn't have the turning ability in some corners that I would expect. It's fine in some like the F40 but the truth is that I'd much rather be oversteering than understeering. Even if the Ferrari was slower around the track I'd still choose it because it's more fun to handle around the bends than the CTR2. This car doesn't do joy very well and feels like somewhat of a rear-engine Nissan GT-R. It looks fine and is decently fast, but the fact that this car sometimes makes it's wheels work so hard while understeering that they start smoking makes me pass up this one in favour of the F40. It's a rocketship out of the corners but is left with too much grip in them.

    Syracuse.jpg

    The Ferrari F40. finished in dark red Pearlescent here is a much more fun car to drive. Sure, the turbos may lag through most of second gear, but it feels like an oversized Lotus Elise in the corners. It looks great, sounds great, turns better (even though the oversteer can get bad) but in short is much more fun to drive and faster in both track trials too. The final road car Enzo Ferrari approved truly deserves that title and is in my opinion a much better car than the Lamborghini Diablo and Ruf CTR2. I'd love to take a look at it some day, but it seems since so few if them exist, I'll be stuck with my digital rendition on GT6. I think I'm in love with this car, as many others are, and I think it deserves every allocade it has ever received. But hey! If you want to hear more about what I have to say and in more depth, click the link to my review page here: (and the review should be there pretty soon)


    So, here's an unnecessarily large picture to cap off this duel:

    Syracuse_3.png

    ...and the verdict is:


    *THUNDER* *CRACK* *BOOM*
    EA and Konami should partner up and become even more terrible!
    (Muahahahahahahha)

    Have a great rest of your Sunday!​
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  11. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The F40 is a legend, a masterpiece, and a supercar that turns car enthusiasts heads. It has a legacy that is hard to beat, and it appears to have sneaked its way into Gran Turismo. In Gran Turismo you feel one of two ways; you like it or you hate it. I like it, with its nice sounding engine and pop up headlights, but one thing keeps me from treasuring it in my garage; handling. Yes, we all can agree that the F40 isn't the best driving car in the virtual world, especially with GT6's wierd physics stuff with mid-engined cars. It's a handful for all drivers, and probably isn't meant for the amateurs. The five speed gearbox helps save it from too much power at the wrong time, so that's a plus.

    We've covered nearly all the RUFs here, with the exception of the BTR, and this go round we have the CTR2. This RUF has been in the series since GT2, and since then it's has held a place in the series. In GT6, it was upgraded to a semi-premium, and I must say that this is a great car. It's four wheel drive isn't crippled by understeer like someone else here said, but the one and only complaint I have is that this car tends to spin the front wheels when pushing the corners, like it's a front wheel drive. Of course, this is easily fixed with some minor tuning. However, it's quite a tough choice here; two fast euros that are not only stunning to look at, but are quite pricey as well. For this week, I choose.....

    The CTR2

    Both cars tested at Monza 80's, no aids except ABS 1, SH tires:

    CTR2: 1:52.511
    F40: 1:55.201

    And the votes:

    CTR2: 3
    F40: 4

    And the winner is.....

    1989_Ferrari_F40LM11.jpg
    The '92 F40!!!
    OK, I know the pic above is the F40 LM, but it works.

    Congrats to @pretend racer for setting a winning time of 1:51.955 in the CTR2 and for setting a winning time of 1:53.745 in the F40!​
     
  12. Arp 273

    Arp 273

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    :odd: :confused:
     
  13. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Oh sorry, looks like I got the times in Tsukuba mixed up, I'll fix that. Thanks for pointing that out.
     
  14. VspecZR1GT2RS89

    VspecZR1GT2RS89

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    Hello everyone and welcome to the grandest battle of all time between two iconic cars of the late 80's and 90's turbocharged supercars that will stand against time........... The Ferarri F40 and the RUF CTR2 993......

    F40: PP: 528
    HP: 471 Ft-lbs: 425.2
    Weight: 1352kg

    CTR2 993: PP: 537
    HP: 513 Ft-lbs: 505.5
    Weight: 1380kg


    Ahh the supercars of the late 80's and the 90's, excellent machines created with some of the best materials and technology that put these amazing cars ahead of their time among the many cars of their era. Equipped with gear like carbon fiber and advanced technology from racecars that we take for granted today in cars like the BMW M4 for example. The supercars of the 90's, especially the turbocharged likes of the F40 and CTR2, that we have with us today for our exciting test. Their many impressions when they came out boosted (pun intended) for future descendants like the 458 Special, 488, F70, GT2 RS, Turbos, and the RT-12. Thus showing those who only think that only naturally aspriated V12 engines are the true merit of being a supercar. Enough chit chat, lets take them out for a spin!

    Looks & Appearance

    The F40 and 993 CTR are unique and great eye catchers with their design language. But who is the true winner? Let's find out.....

    F40

    The F40 is a great piece of engineering of the time. Despite this is a 1992 F40, the last year of the iconic supercar, he still has a some of the 80's versions qualities (dat turbo lag) but it has several improvements that give him his fighting spirit to compete with other 90's legends like the XJ220, Diablo and EB110. The F40 also reminds me of the legendary Skyline GTR R32, who was around the late 80's (1989 whoo) up to the early 90's. The car was still being sold when the early R33 non-GTRs were coming out. The F40's looks give me an impression of the older F1, Group B Rally, and Group C race cars of the era. A car that will show his older brother, the 288 GTO he is ready for racing. With its boxy, yet curvy designs, are just appealing to the eyes. The F40 will, and shall be a beauty among the iconic supercars of both eras he experienced and will be a stunner for years later.

    CTR2 993

    How do you improve a legend? With the CTR2, Alois Ruf did an excellent job once again! The CTR2 is based off the 911 Turbo/ Turbo S 993, which is a icon as well, but one you can get without the hard searching, since the mutated 911 is MUCH RARER than the 911 Turbo. But compared to the 911 T, the RUF is a beast compared to the 911. The CTR2 looks like he was infused with the T virus and became a Automotive B.O.W., a transform cube into a Autobot ( Sam & Bumble Bee I got my own Autobot!) or he maybe got a RUstone and a 911 Turbo Evolved into the CTR2 instead of a GT2! But enough of the Pokemon, Resident Evil, and Transformers jokes and puns.. My goodness, the CTR2 says I ready for the road, track, and anything else out there! The wide arches and that GT wing says everything about performance and attitude and it does a good job at it. The kit can make the coolest RWB Porsche bow its head in shame in a battle with the CTR and with the performance as well, the CTR shows the true meaning of Form=Function.

    Although the CTR2 is impressive to look at and respect, but I'm sorry, to say that the F40 has the win in the looks department in this comparison... Why? Because Croup B/C race car for the road.

    Colors

    The F40 has only one color in the color palette. It doesn't have the Gallo Moderna, Nero Daytona, or Blanco Avus in its options, unless customized by the owner. So he only has Rosso Corsa for the ride.

    The RUF is a different story, he has many colors of the rainbow at his disposal so it is a multitude of colors to choose from to make the CTR2 stand out. And for a added note: The RUF cars all share the same colors as their tamer and exciting cousins at Porsche... So it is a additional bonus!

    The winner here is the RUF CTR2!

    Behind The Wheel: Round 1 Monza 80's

    Now since we have them ready and willing to fight. We take both masters in a duel to see who is the champion. We first hit Monza on a reconstructed 1980 version of the legendary track. Although the F40 is a 90's model, it still has the 80's within its system. So lets move on out.... The F40 was a engaging and exciting car to drive on the tricky track, everywhere I felt the urge to push him even harder on the chicanes in the beginning and around the track. Just flirting with danger made me smile with emotion and flinging him in the corners like Chris Harris does in his videos. The first two laps also showed me to respect the car as well. I got to cocky in some corners, and he just kick me to the grass/sand and told me to stop it. The F40 will tell you to stop, but ignore it, it will teach you harshly or kill you dead if provoked in a wrong way, so shoe respect when pushing the red flaming beast or it will get ya. But even with driving hard on Monza and combating the turbo lag and crazy oversteer, we did do a good time under two minutes of a battle between man and machine, which is not bad at all.

    When we started with the CTR2, we didn't expect it to start raining on our test. But the CTR2 didn't stop and wanted to wait until it cleared up. No, it wanted to take the challenge, and my what a challenge it was! The RUF plowed through the many corners on the wet surface on Monza like it wasn't worried, thanks to the AWD system built at RUF HQ. Despite the understeer we encountered on the track can be addressed by adapting to the car and its characteristics on the road. When you understand this, you can make some fun driving and better times on the tarmac.... Which we did. ;) 1:55 Take that!

    Monza 80's Best Time
    F40 1:58.973
    CTR2 1:55.431

    Round 2 Nurburgring GP/F

    To make things fair, we head to Germany where our big yellow bird originated from a nice town of Paffuersseuen to the 'Ring, the GP version, since they were working on the Northern loop, sorry fans :(... But anywhoo.... The RUF was an absolute hoot on the track, even when pushing against forces of understeer, the front tires just kept burning up! We had a ruff time with that pressure and started ripping some e-brakes for some AWD drifting action in the corners, and let me tell ya... It was FUN! :D But after this playtime. It was serious mode for us. We needed to hit the best time possible. Although it was a small handful of trouble, and some near instant kill moves we had to avoid of the angry yellow bird, we actually did an amazing time on the GP with 2:15.

    By the time for the F40 test, it was getting late in the evening. But that didn't stop us from getting a good time on the track. As with Monza before, we were having a little drift fest with the F40's wild oversteer. If the CTR2's tires were burning, so was the F40's. We had to stop drifting under the sunset and put away the Formula Drift/D1GP action for some Stig driving! And so we did, and avoiding any crashes and spinouts, we placed an good time under 2:20 under the night sky. And those sweet pop-up lights! :D

    Nurburgring GP-F
    CTR2 2:15.913
    F40 2:17.628

    Round 3: 5 Lap Race on Willow Field

    We have ties with both cars, so we need to spice things up a bit. We took the cars to sunny SoCal at the Willow Field Track for some 550PP racing on sports hard. And let me tell you this, it was one wild ride.... Although both cars are in the 500PP range, they are stick and up against older and modern cars with better engines and PP. Did it scare them? Nope, they both went in fighting. In a list lineup of GTRs, LFA Nurs, 288 GTOs, a F430 Scud, and a XBow; they didn't flinch at any opposition the other cars gave them. We had some tight racing with the LFA (F40) and 288 (993 CTR2) and to top the difficulty, fighting oversteer and understeer. Made it risky to sometimes push the cars on the track harder than we wanted to do, especially on the Omega corner and the final corner. But somehow with skill and luck, both took the flag at 1st.

    Race: F40:1st CTR2: 1st

    Sudden Death!!!!!

    Yes we are using touge terms for this... :p But it is tough to compare these two amazing cars that do great times on every challenge we threw them on so we take them to the tail of the devil or la cold del diablo for this final run. Both turbocharged beasts faced their nemesis of understeer and oversteer in the dangling twists and corners and a tough corner that throws you into the ditch or barrier before the finish line (which did happen.. D'oh!) But we achieved a low time with the RUF, who beat the F40 by at least 2:28 on the Spanish touge....

    Sudden Death: Custom Andalusia "La Cola Del Diablo"

    F40 2:35.00
    CTR2 2:28.00

    Conclusion

    After driving both great cars on the many tracks, it is a tough choice for us to chose. The Group B monster TT V8 F40 or the high boost, Mr. Hyde 911 CTR2 993.... Ugh why make my life harder with both of my iconic childhood cars that I want to own some day. WHY?!?!?!? :( :lol:

    But it seems that I must.... And I declare the RUF CTR2 993 as the winner of this challenge. Congrats RUF!

    P.S. @MrWaflz55: Love your final verdict sig! That one mafe me scoff, laugh and facepalm knowing this could happen. Props! :lol:
     
  15. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Alright @AgentBlackDog, this better be good

    You missed the god awful SSR, but hey, not a bad idea.....

    maxresdefault.jpg
    The 2011 Monster Sport SX4 Pikes Peak Special

    vs

    Suzuki Escudo Pikes Peak 8.jpg
    The 1998 Suzuki V6 Escudo Pikes Peak Special!!!


    Monster power, monster acceleration, and monster downforce, a battle that'll sink you into your seat. I am finally able to make the time trial, so you people can return to the regular club. This week's trial will be at Eiger G Trial, because tarmac is too mainstream.​
     
  16. Ryk

    Ryk

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    And I was just thinking about buying an everyday runabout town car...
     
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  17. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Oh boy, my wallet. Give me a few days to grind enough to afford one of them.
     
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  18. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Take your time. Under the present conditions of the online Time Trial, only the SX4 is eligible. I bought both cars straight off the showroom floor, and for some reason the Escudo isn't allowed in because of vehicle tuning. Even though I haven't made a single change, other than the required dirt tires, it's not allowed in.
     
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  19. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Changed it so that vehicle tuning is allowed for the sake of the Escudo. I trust you regulars enough not to cheat ;)
     
  20. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    ...and now that the event organizers will let the Escudo in, here's my piece on these two cars.

    Nobuhiro "Monster" Tajima has been a regular contender at the Pikes Peak Hillclimb, and when I went to this most recent one back in June, lo and behold, he was one of the competitors. (Pretty much the only name I recognized, as a matter of fact.) He's long since abandoned the Suzuki-based cars, opting for a car designed by him, (with some help from Mitsubishi) but he's still much more known for the monstrous Suzukis.

    The year was 1998. Tajima by this point has already participated in plenty of rallying events, and he was already a veteran of the Pikes Peak Hillcimb. He had raced a twin-engined Suzuki Cultus, and a twin-engined Suzuki Escudo, but one of the real head turners of his career was the radical V6 Escudo, the one we as Gran Turismo fans all know and love. This was quite the runner, and although it was beaten out by the Toyota Celica of Rod Millen, it still brought quite a lot of victories in various hill climb events. In Gran Turismo, long before there were Red Bull X Fan cars and Formula GTs, this was THE god car to have that would decimate pretty much anyone you put it against. In GT2, this and Tajima's old Cultus were the two massively competitive cars in Suzuki's lineup, alongside the cutesy little putt-putt kei cars. You did loads of races to save up the 2,000,000 credits needed to put one of these in your garage. In GT6? 1,450,000 credits. One seasonal event and, boom. You got your own Escudo.

    Tajima had a lot of success in Suzukis, eventually driving the hillclimb in a suped-up SX4. In 2011, he broke the 10 minute barrier, with the very car that we are testing out. (Though, granted, that's also the first year where the entire course was tarmac) It doesn't have as much power as the other car, and it's also a fair bit heavier. Bringing it down to the numbers, this should be a pretty obvious win for one of them, right? Let's see.

    Eiger G Trial:
    SX4 - 1:53.177
    Escudo - 1:55.217

    Rotenboden Trial:
    SX4 - 1:27.084
    Escudo - 1:34.641

    SSR5 Trial:
    SX4 - 1:15.529
    Escudo - 1:13.473

    So, check out that massive seven second gap between the two cars on the Matterhorn. Pretty wide gap, right? In most cars we test on here, minor mistakes account for a few milliseconds to maybe a second in time. Between cars this zippy, a mistake can cost you several seconds due to how much ground they cover when moving perfectly, and yeah, I had a good amount of those in the Escudo on the Rotenboden.

    On the dirt trial, the SX4 felt pretty numb, almost like taking corners as I usually would on tarmac with a regular car would be better than trying to drift the thing. Eventually I got into the groove and managed to put down a pretty good time, but it wasn't too fun to drive. The Escudo on the other hand was a blast to drive off road. Definitely the car that will leave you loading your shorts in real life, but in Gran Turismo where you are free of lethal consequences, this is a really fun car that easily pitches and yaws sliding around in corners, even when it can bite back. One massively catastrophic flaw in the Escudo however comes in the massive turbo fitted on the V6. Nearly 1,000 horsepower? Awesome. All that power comes with a price though, and heaven forbid, you drop this thing below 5,000 rpm. Good lord, turbo lag stings this thing big time. The power on this car is 973 horsepower, but below 5,000 rpm, blur out the 3, and make it 97 horsepower.

    Since Pikes Peak is now a paved course, the Rotenboden is a more appropriate trial in this duel than all of the other duels, since it is also a paved and mountainous course. The short, but technical chicanes require some especially precise inputs in these cars, but the SX4 held its own, whereas the elevation changes made the Escudo lose control very easily. For a hillclimb car, the Escudo was an entirely different monster than what it used to be.

    To contrast, on a more flat course, the SX4 seemed like it would be the faster one again. I was able to hit everything pretty close to perfectly. Most of my mistakes in the early laps were me compensating as I would with a normal sports car, but this turns and stops almost instantaneously. Both cars were mega-responsive, with the Escudo (again) being the more rowdy one, but because this was more of a flat racing contest, the Escudo's lower weight and higher power won this trial.

    Overall however, the SX4 shone through. Numbers-wise, it was at quite the disadvantage, but newer cars with more racing refinements and technology can definitely even the gap. The SX4 is super responsive on the wheel, gas, and brakes, (except on dirt where it becomes fairly understeery). The Escudo serves very well in GT2 and GT3, but it definitely shows its age in this game, especially if you start it from a stand-still, or go a little too crazy on the corners. Still my favorite of the two when it comes to having fun. But, all in all, if you want a good mountain runner, the SX4 is obviously the better choice, and thus my vote goes to it.
     
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  21. Ryk

    Ryk

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    I didn't get enough track time with either of these. They are both quirky racers full and character which should make it quite easy for a driver to find their own favourite - but as you can muck about with the suspension and gearbox and the Ramp angles and the torque split ... even before you alter the wing angles and the front splitter settings ... you should be able to fine tune either monster into a car you can get the most out of...

    The basic choice is that the Escudo has more power, less weight what weight it does have is further back - so the car is more eager to rotate in corners - In my opinion it is the harder car to deal with, the engine is VERY peaky - if you drop low in the rev range then the car will crawl about like it has taken a knee to the lugnuts.

    The SX4 has more of its heavier weight over the front axel, which made it stick to the track a bit more but while that made it twice as easy to drive, it made it suffer from dreadful understeer when you are pushing in fast corners.

    However - As I've done about 3 laps in each car I couldn't be truthful to pick either. The Escudo holds a lot of promise - if you can wrap your driver brain around the way it handles and row the gearstick about in the corners to keep the car in the power band - you will have an extremely rewarding drive... The SX4 was easier to drive, but I hit the understeer before I hit any other driving danger.

    If you had to pick a car to run a fast lap - I'd pick the SX4 for an initial good benchmark, but I feel the Escudo has way more potential and will push you much harder as a driver...

    So actually forget what I said a minute or so ago. I choose the Escudo as it was more engaging to drive stock.

    Apologies to Zebulon Montgomery Pike, I couldn't find a good hill climb test track.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
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  22. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    8,458
    I'm just going to vote for the SX4, since it's been doing wonders for me.

    The Escudo is faster in terms of raw potential, but it's about as controllable as the '63 Vette race car. I do better with the SX4 regardless of the situation.
     
  23. Arp 273

    Arp 273

    Messages:
    93
    Tested both cars on a hill climb TT. Narrow course, lots of tight corners and shorts straights. Had trouble with both cars to keep them on the tarmac. In the end the Escudo was faster on this course. The SX4 suffered from understeer, the Escodo had oversteer but it was managable and sometimes benifical. The power band is not optimal, it doesn't acclerate enough from lower revs, stay on throttle a bit longer and it flies towards the next corner.

    I know that a better driver can get much more out of either car than I am able to do.

    The Suzuki V6 Escudo Pikes Peak Special gets my vote because it was faster and it cornered better, which is what a hill climb car is about.
     
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  24. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    I don't have enough time to get on GT6 and save up for these two. Sorry guys, maybe next time. Although I may write a comparison if I buy both cars later.
     
  25. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    If only you could lend/borrow cars on GT6, I'd happily let you drive mine.
     
  26. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The Escudo has a rich history in Gran Turismo. First seen in GT2 as possibly the most OP car in the game, lots of people have come to like this monster. Driving it actually takes a tiny bit of skill, as the massive downforce can be a little too much at times. Gearing is a bit if an issue too, having a pause between the first few. Overall, it's a classic that any classic GT player can enjoy.

    Then we have the "newer Escudo", the SX4 Pikes Peak. Not near as much power, but it actually proved to be faster than its rival. How? When I tested it, it felt quite a bit more stable and forgiving. Now I'm not saying that the Escudo wasn't, but the SX4 would probably be a better choice for off road at least. My pick this week goes to.....

    The SX4

    Both cars tested at Eiger G Trail, no aids except ABS 1, Dirt Tires:

    SX4: 1:54.285
    Escudo: 1:55.902

    And the votes:

    SX4: 2
    Escudo: 3

    And the winner is......

    Suzuki_escudo_pikes_peak.jpg
    The '98 Escudo Pikes Peak!!!

    Congrats to @ThrasherDBS for setting a winning time of 1:53.177 in the SX4 and for setting a winning time of 1:55.217 in the Escudo!





    OK @TS040, now's your time.....

    Well hey, scrolling through the first few pages of the thread, I noticed that you had some good ideas for duels, so I chose you :cheers:

    What do we have?

    It's a Super GT Battle!

    For this battle, you have four cars to choose from.....

    epson_nsx.jpg
    The NSX

    petronas_lexus_sc430_super_gt_by_dangeruss-d5t4y1u.jpg
    The SC430

    xanavi_nissan_gt_r_super_gt_02_by_dangeruss-d5t3jvj.jpg
    The GT-R

    Raybrig_HSV-010_2011_Super_GT_Fuji_250km.jpg
    And the HSV-010!

    Even though the cars pictured above have liveries and such, I would highly, highly recommend using the base models for this duel since we kind of ran into an issue with buying all the cars in the JGTC battle. The trial won't be up until later today, but it obviously will be at Suzuka. So with that, let the battle begin.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
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  27. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    So, found out about this brand new racing series that isn't going to be featured on television, but the only coverage of it is going to take place on some thread on some website that's for fans of some racing video game or something? I don't know, it sounds weird to me but oh well.

    The whole point of it is a feeder series into Japan's Super GT, though I'm not quite sure why it doesn't have the coverage, if that's the point of it. Anyway, so these drivers, coupled with small sponsors scrape together enough cash to buy an outdated GT500 class Super GT car, and then they race around tracks. However, instead of a regular race, they're going by Time Trials: whoever can set the fastest lap in the alotted time/laps wins.

    [​IMG]

    The first entrant was an old Honda NSX GT500 car from 2008. Painted in Midnight Pearl with gold wheels, it appeared to be sponsored by a bank security systems firm in Kyoto. "Nightshade Security". Car #92 is piloted by one Takeshi Takahashi. They say his half-sister Veronica runs the company from within the United States.

    [​IMG]

    Second entrant was a Lexus SC430. This was kinda painted in a goldish color, but with vibrant blue wheels for some reason. Evidently, they were sponsored by some small tuning shop in Tokyo. "K2 Kanjyo" I believe it was called. Ryota Saito drives Car #91.

    [​IMG]

    Yet another '08 model was the third entrant, a fairly vibrant purple GT-R, with a #89 adorned all over alongside large bright letters that read "IMPACT PURPLE". Evidently this was a small car polish company also based in Tokyo. Its driver: Kazuya Nakazato seemed like a fairly cold and aloof individual when interacting with officials and other drivers. Maybe it had something to do with the garish pink helmet he was wearing. Guessing he didn't really like it.

    [​IMG]

    The last entrant managed to snag a 2012 HSV-010, and this thing was a beauty. Very brilliant red and still looked like it was brand new. This was the car that replaced the NSX for Honda in Super GT, as regulations wanted all cars to be FR, which was the swan song for the Mid-engined NSX. This one was sponsored by a... small store in Akibahara that sold chewing gum and... duct tape. "Shingo Gum". Oddly specific. The driver was evidently half Brazilian and half Chinese, judging by his name. This Raymondo Lang looked fairly confident in his abilities and his car, and rightfully so. I know from experience that the HSV-010 is no slouch.

    This was a five trial series, featuring a simple points scoring system. Last gets one point, winner gets four points, and so on.

    Suzuka Trial:
    T. Takahashi (NSX) - 2:03.692 (4th) - 1pt
    R. Saito (SC430) - 2:02.243 (3rd) - 2pts
    K. Nakazato (GT-R) - 2:00.101 (2nd) - 3pts
    R. Lang (HSV-010) - 1:59.151 (1st) - 4pts

    Twin Ring Motegi Trial:
    T. Takahashi (NSX) - 1:53.030 (3rd) - 2pts
    R. Saito (SC430) - 1:53.050 (4th) - 1pt
    K. Nakazato (GT-R) - 1:49.966 (1st) - 4pts
    R. Lang (HSV-010) - 1:50.614 (2nd) - 3pts

    Fuji Speedway GT Trial:
    T. Takahashi (NSX) - 1:36.568 (4th) - 1pt
    R. Saito (SC430) - 1:35.712 (3rd) - 2pts
    K. Nakazato (GT-R) - 1:34.437 (2nd) - 3pts
    R. Lang (HSV-010) - 1:34.211 (1st) - 4pts

    Rotenboden Trial:
    T. Takahashi (NSX) - 1:37.760 (4th) - 1pt
    R. Saito (SC430) - 1:31.926 (3rd) - 2pts
    K. Nakazato (GT-R) - 1:31.088 (2nd) - 3pts
    R. Lang (HSV-010) - 1:30.475 (1st) - 4pts

    SSR5 Trial:
    T. Takahashi (NSX) - 1:21.822 (4th) - 1pt
    R. Saito (SC430) - 1:21.330 (3rd) - 2pts
    K. Nakazato (GT-R) - 1:20.632 (2nd) - 3pts
    R. Lang (HSV-010) - 1:18.994 (1st) - 4pts

    Final Standings:
    1st: R. Lang (HSV-010) - 19pts
    2nd: K. Nakazato (GT-R) - 16pts
    3rd: R. Saito (SC430) - 9pts
    4th: T. Takahashi (NSX) - 6pts

    This was clearly a two-tiered championship. The GT-R and the HSV-010 were in direct competition with one another, and the NSX could only hope to compete for third with the SC430. All the drivers seemed eerily at roughly the same amount of competence behind the wheel as I was.

    Car #92 (the NSX) seemed like it was very rowdy and difficult to control. The car was easily upset in corners, especially whenever Takahashi got on the gas, which leads me to believe that it's because of the nature of the drivetrain. Not necessarily an issue with the newest Super GT cars, seeing as how they're all supposed to be FR in order to conform with current regulations. The elevation changes on the Rotenboden were especially tortuous on the poor car, as it wound up being very familiar with the side-walls. This, coupled with the fact it was the heaviest and least powerful car on in the competition leaves no wonder as to why it was last.

    #91 (the SC430) by contrast, was a good deal more well-behaved than the NSX, almost to a fault. The car seemed to take each corner it was handed, whether flat or elevated, sharp or loose, or long or brief, with the gentle behavior you would most likely expect from a well-made luxury car. However, the car didn't seem to have nearly as much bite as the GT-R or HSV-010 which left Saito behind, but still on the podium.

    Cars #89 and #90 were the real competition here. They seemed to have a good balance between the extremes of the NSX and the SC430, though the GT-R displayed some sass in the corners that did waste some valuable time, and which probably was the reason it lost out to the nearly perfectly behaved HSV-010. Lang and Nakazato were running roughly 15 more horsepower than Saito and Takahashi, which might have given them a better edge in addition to the right mix in temperament. Though, from the results, the HSV-010 seems to be more than an adequate replacement for the NSX in Super GT.

    The HSV-010 seems to be the best choice from the lot, with the GT-R being close behind, and the SC430 which could definitely be recommended to beginners mostly. The NSX, while I have seen amazing things from the road-going Type R, the GT500 variant seems out of its element.

    Wonder if anyone else in this thread also saw an odd competition like this.
     
  28. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    It's not like I'm the leader or anything, that would only be a dream :sly:
     
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  29. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    Who owns this week's TT event on PSN-GT6 servers-lobbies guys? If Cowboy, I will send you a friend request in order to get there and TT those GT500 cars a bit if ok. I like this week's competition.
     
  30. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    I made the event this week, so you can send me a request if you need to get there :cheers:
     
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