GT6 VS Project Cars

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occasionalracer
If you think a game built on the backs of gamer feedback and testing is the best way to reach the goal of simulating real world phenomenon then you may be surprised you'll hit a limit if you don't keep seeking further. I'm by no means an expert in info on how SMS get's their data, but I'm willing to be it's not to the extent PD has been able to go (largely due to funds). I understand your point, there are a bunch of simple flaws within GT6 that can are enough to initiate a headache.
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PCars is built with the aid of customer feedback. Imagine if PD did the same. Maybe camber would work. Maybe ride height wouldn't be backwards. Maybe the Stratos wouldn't drive like it's rear wheels are made of ice. Maybe we would be able to search for lobbies with particular features we're looking for instead of a completely random search (in 2014!!). If anything, the design of GT6 absolutely screams out for customer feedback as more and more it's looking like something designed with 1998 design philosophy and 2014 technology.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Then why speak on it? If your a WMD member I could understand you having doubt rather your someone from the outside looking in and you have this dogmatic optimism for PD/GT and then you do what an fanatical would with that belief and nearly smite everything that is similar to it because it can't be nearly as glorious. It hardly makes sense, your either for the sim racing world being a better place, or your just there for GT.

Also SMS have had plenty of ability to get info due to past workings with EA (cars physics don't change real world just how to interpret them in a game), and they have plenty of people that have played various games but also have insight into how physics engines work and also how physics in general works with a system like a car (engineers for example). I don't know what cutting edge info PD has that your taking about, because it has yet to be seen in implementation.
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I have not ever mentioned I'm not looking forward to Project Cars, I check for news on it from time to time, everything looks great, there are also things not so great. I am a sim racing enthusiast and I'm going to buy pCARS almost without a doubt. But the people that really love bashing anything PD has done, being blind to the excellent things, and turn around and throw the the belief out there that a game that isn't close to finshed is somehow superior is just pointless, keep believing it, I hope it provides some stiff competition for PD.

So you think there's one system that's proven and all you need is the right people who understand it and simply use "the old cars physics data" to work it into the game? I don't think so, this is why PD with their GPS/sensor loaded cars in their Nissan/Toyota collabs, KW suspension and Yokohoma partnerships.. and who knows where is a step beyond which can only be good thing to answer remaining questions.

Johnnypenso
PCars is built with the aid of customer feedback. Imagine if PD did the same. Maybe camber would work. Maybe ride height wouldn't be backwards. Maybe the Stratos wouldn't drive like it's rear wheels are made of ice. Maybe we would be able to search for lobbies with particular features we're looking for instead of a completely random search (in 2014!!). If anything, the design of GT6 absolutely screams out for customer feedback as more and more it's looking like something designed with 1998 design philosophy and 2014 technology.
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Yes I know I read these forums, it's a seperate point though. Feedback is something PD can use and they get it here and elsewhere without needing to get all interactive with the community, and they certainly don't need to do actual game development alongside the community (which is what I was argueing btw) as SMS has done, it would be an absolute nightmare. But heaven forbid anyone say anything in 'defense' of PD here. But again, yes, PD could do a bit more talking or issueing quick statements that they are checking specific problems.
 
Imari
Which is exactly the sort of thing having hundreds of people testing on WMD is supposed to catch. And the sort of things that they have been catching, there's been numerous "hey, that's not right!" bugs that have been identified by members and removed, and more undergoing investigation.
If GT6 ever gets telemetry or it's 7 post rig, then perhaps we can talk about which is more physically accurate. Until then, only one of these two games has the tools to even begin to compare itself with reality.

Still, DC on a wet track versus some gamers in perfect conditions. I'd have said that them being close is a sign that Sony managed the offset of the tyres well, not anything else. The conditions are just too different to read anything into the physics.
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i'm not trying to dislike pcars, i'm interested in it and also in driveclub, that is not even meant to be a "simulator".
SMS communication is very good, my "problem" is, facts, how can we be sure pcars members are testing the game with real world data, facts, and not just impressions or personal feelings? the potencial with gt6 is that, finally, we see the real car fast laping and compare it side by side (as ghost) with the simulator. its not about trust, we see for our selfs what the real car can do, it's factual. how PD matches that with a ps3 i dont know, i'm waiting to see.

https://www.gtplanet.net/marco-calv...edition-driving-challenge-takes-home-sls-amg/
although DC drove only for 15 minuts, the fastest laps at gt5 and TG track were super close. its a simple sim, but worked very well. such challenges could never be donne by PD without total trust in their simulation.
imagine if the laps were different by 30 seconds or even 1 minut. i dont remember very well but i have the impression that the gap was 2 seconds and only by tow players after 2/3 weeks practicing. as a direct comparation, the result is positive.
 
How can you compare GT6 to Project Cars, this is a joke it is like comparing a Renault twingo to a Bentley ! It's like people who think that GT6 is really close to Forza 5 , just because they can't see details IMO for exemple just ask to your GF is the H&m hand-bag look like a LV bag you will see what she will say ;) ;) :) ! Everything is in details ! Like in forza 5 there is something which called a engine under the hood , not in Gt6!!!!
 
occasionalracer
I have not ever mentioned I'm not looking forward to Project Cars, I check for news on it from time to time, everything looks great, there are also things not so great. I am a sim racing enthusiast and I'm going to buy pCARS almost without a doubt. But the people that really love bashing anything PD has done, being blind to the excellent things, and turn around and throw the the belief out there that a game that isn't close to finshed is somehow superior is just pointless, keep believing it, I hope it provides some stiff competition for PD.
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One, I never said nor implied you weren't for pCARS I just said what you just echoed, that you are supportive in a blind fashion for a game that actually has evidence to dissuade people from being such but they persist. Yet another game does it and actually has a legal contract to uphold (how most of you forget) and when people have belief in it they are laughed at. PD doesn't have to uphold such a contract in the making of GT7 there is a big difference in comparisons. Also one could look forward to a game and still be very critical, I'm am and was toward GT6 and GT7 as well as the next FM game so...

So you think there's one system that's proven and all you need is the right people who understand it and simply use "the old cars physics data" to work it into the game? I don't think so, this is why PD with their GPS/sensor loaded cars in their Nissan/Toyota collabs, KW suspension and Yokohoma partnerships.. and who knows where is a step beyond which can only be good thing to answer remaining questions.
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Um yes there is, understanding vehicle dynamics and calculating them isn't something that changes from month to month or even year to year or ever really. However, finding a way to accurately put that data into a system and then simulate it is always going to change because it will never be real world. If you think that the calculations of past real world data is somehow going to be vastly different now then you'd be wrong. They collaborated to understand the physics of cars better and not have such vast readings that were wrong, not because real world physics changed.

PD are quite bad at making an accurate physics engine that is simulating real world when you modify a car outside it's factory spec, thus getting help from these types of groups is a good idea. Other groups have been doing this too, however the understanding of such data and input into a physic engine still can be different. This is the case with FM vs GT, even though one uses Pirelli and the other now uses Yokohama the tire company info isn't going to be that far off from one another and yet we have very different drives.

Also yes you do need the right people to tell you what the data means and then to translate that into the simulation, this what PD are doing when they bring in these groups. They also could fill in missing areas that aren't being calculated and there are plenty in GT that aren't being done.
 
lusitanuno, you're talking as if SMS take every piece of feedback and make changes willy nilly based on everything said. That is far from the case, feedback from players is just something they take on board as guidance along with plenty of other data, they don't just read 10 people saying they think x car oversteers too much and change it like you seem to be suggesting.
 
Samus
lusitanuno, you're talking as if SMS take every piece of feedback and make changes willy nilly based on everything said. That is far from the case, feedback from players is just something they take on board as guidance along with plenty of other data, they don't just read 10 people saying they think x car oversteers too much and change it like you seem to be suggesting.
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Imari said : "Which is exactly the sort of thing having hundreds of people testing on WMD is supposed to catch. And the sort of things that they have been catching, there's been numerous "hey, that's not right!" bugs that have been identified by members and removed, and more undergoing investigation."

samus, i'm not suggesting anything, i never posted anything about pcars. i have no ideia how SMS or PD test their simulators. since i'm not professional driver, my reply was about that, not being sure about a simulation or data used by developers. i have to see to believe, and maybe, just maybe, that data logger and gps visualiser will give me a rare oportunity to compare for myself, without any subjectivity, both sides of the car, real and virtual.
f1 professional simulators are made with help of their pro drivers experience but preferencialy by lots of real car telemetry. real world telemetry is factual. thats the diferenciation i meant; how accurate are the simulators and how can we, players, know it, without real word facts to compare.
 
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Ferrari458Italia
WAIT wait when is project cars coming out??? did they release a release date?!?

I'm holding off on a PS4 until a good racing game is out on it since I mainly play that genre
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fall 2014 ,november , if they stay on schedule, but i doubt that will happen
 
lusitanuno
i'm not trying to dislike pcars, i'm interested in it and also in driveclub, that is not even meant to be a "simulator".
SMS communication is very good, my "problem" is, facts, how can we be sure pcars members are testing the game with real world data, facts, and not just impressions or personal feelings? the potencial with gt6 is that, finally, we see the real car fast laping and compare it side by side (as ghost) with the simulator. its not about trust, we see for our selfs what the real car can do, it's factual. how PD matches that with a ps3 i dont know, i'm waiting to see.
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If by "we" you mean people not in WMD, then you can't. If you wanted to, you should have been in on it earlier. You will have to wait until release.

https://www.gtplanet.net/marco-calv...edition-driving-challenge-takes-home-sls-amg/
although DC drove only for 15 minuts, the fastest laps at gt5 and TG track were super close. its a simple sim, but worked very well. such challenges could never be donne by PD without total trust in their simulation.
imagine if the laps were different by 30 seconds or even 1 minut. i dont remember very well but i have the impression that the gap was 2 seconds and only by tow players after 2/3 weeks practicing. as a direct comparation, the result is positive.
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Are you sure that's the competition you mean? That one was held initially in B Spec, and then later on track at the Red Bull Ring. David Coulthard was on hand only to judge, he did not drive.

If you meant this which I linked to earlier:



Then my previous comments about the track conditions being wholly different in game and out still need to be addressed.


@occasionalracer

I think you're missing that this is a Versus thread, and an unusual one. We have one game which is ostensibly complete, or at least publically released, and can be evaluated warts and all. We have another that is still in active development, and thus any negative aspects may or may not be corrected before release.

It's not a fair comparison, and it's never going to be. People are naturally going to gravitate towards the areas in which the completed game is deficient and compare them to the developing game, to see if there's hope for anything better.

If you want to hear good things about GT6, I suggest the Epic Tears of Joy thread. Here, about the best it's going to get is "GT6 is currently better at X, but we don't know how pCARS is going to turn out".
 
Imari
If by "we" you mean people not in WMD, then you can't. If you wanted to, you should have been in on it earlier. You will have to wait until release.
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- yes, we, people not in WMD, and we, players. i dont know, does pcars provide real world car data for members to compare with whats being donne by developers? i never drove a ferrari, never drove on the limits, im not a professional driver, i dont have acess to real world car data, i dont know how to evaluate a simulator without something factual and unequivocal to compare.
- sure, i am waiting to release...releases...pcars, driveclub, asseto corsa?, gt7?...GT6 updates
- right, mercedes sls amg at top gear test track. i know, Imari, despite those obvious diferent track conditions, i was very impressed for how close the fastest lap times were! 2 seconds (15 minuts for DC and 3/4 weeks for gt5 drivers)!
- my posts dont intend to devaluate pcars nor to overvalue gt. i'm not in love with gt, i'll buy whatever feels better to me. for now, i'm just exited with the potencial of those data logger and gps visualiser for gt6. the potencial but also the value for a "real driving simulator".
 
If ben collins, aka the stig, with hundreds if not thousands of supercars driven(on track at the limit) is not a trustworthy person for this, i really don't know who is...
Other than a couple editors (who are usually not full race car drivers), tiff needel, randy pobst or chris harris i don't know if there is a single person in this planet with more supercar miles driven at a race track.

 
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I'm also wondering that. Like I said in another thread people seem to think it's been in development for too long and had a ton of delays, just like GT5, but the truth is development started in October 2011. If it is to release on schedule (and it's still on track to do so, all milestones have been met internally) it would release just over three years after the project started, and for a game funded in the way it was that is very reasonable. They had to start from scratch in terms of modeling, since they couldn't use any Shift assets. Only the base engine was carried over, as they owned it. Three years is perfectly normal.
 
I just hope by the time it's released I have a capable computer to play it. I don't really care about the date anymore. :lol:
 
Tenacious D
And which of course makes your "Oh, it'll be a worthless toy" post invaluable info. ;)
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Still waiting for this to be taken down.
 
How long does it take for the pcars crew to develop and deliver a car?
 
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