GT7: PS4 makes incredible difference - Kaz

All these announcements only make me more hyped for GT7. I just hope it's closer in quality to the first 4 games instead of 5 or 6. I haven't played 5 or 6, but they both seem average in comparison to the earlier installments. At the least, I hope they bring back the endurance races, as long as they keep in race saving. As long as they have those, I'll be happy even if I can't B-Spec. There are plenty of other things I could want, but I don't know. I just hope it can some out within 2 years. Here's to hoping they don't F it up.
 
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Those vague statements are going to go up in hype and they're going to end up in lots of disappointment.

A modern great racing game for PS4 is not far away:
- new and current cars
- day/night on every track
- dry/rain/snow weather on every track
- various racing series (open wheel, GT, track day cars, ...)
- flags and maybe safety cars
- long career mode, preferably by racing series which can be extended by DLCs with new tracks and new offline events
- online racing with championships incl. assigning points over weeks, months & so on
- challenge your friends (e.g. like autolog in NFS Shift and more) with sending ghost & replay
- customizing of cars with liveries, sponsorship logos...

And with all this hype GT's producing I am especially curious to see how Project Cars will perform in those areas...
 
Well.. the 7850 (a bit faster than that) is effectively 8-9 times more powerful than a 7800GTX (on which RSX was based upon)(DX10 performance) so moving to true 1080p with FXAA or better yet SMAA with 4X the number of polygons for the environment, 3d trees, high resolution shadow maps (to fix those hideous shadows) and high resolution textures should not be a problem for the PS4, especially with all that memory.

The CPU, however, is a different story. Lets hope the weak APU cores are enough to handle some smart AI. The PS3 had all those SPEs so hopefully the game engine is already optimized for parallel processing and the legacy engine can be ported to PS4s multi-core processor.

Honestly I don't care about it being an amazing looking game, all I care about is that PD put some effort into making the game more engaging and challenging rather than spending all that time tackling technical issues and trying to do things the hardware simply cannot handle.
 
wakas
Well.. the 7850 (a bit faster than that) is effectively 8-9 times more powerful than a 7800GTX (on which RSX was based upon)(DX10 performance) so moving to true 1080p with FXAA or better yet SMAA with 4X the number of polygons for the environment, 3d trees, high resolution shadow maps (to fix those hideous shadows) and high resolution textures should not be a problem for the PS4, especially with all that memory.

The CPU, however, is a different story. Lets hope the weak APU cores are enough to handle some smart AI. The PS3 had all those SPEs so hopefully the game engine is already optimized for parallel processing and the legacy engine can be ported to PS4s multi-core processor.

Honestly I don't care about it being an amazing looking game, all I care about is that PD put some effort into making the game more engaging and challenging rather than spending all that time tackling technical issues and trying to do things the hardware simply cannot handle.
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I wonder why then that DC is only 30 fps.
 
Remodeled tracks and scenery
Better car sounds
Shuffle racing
Livery editor
Course creator
Premium Supra RZ
Better online servers
Better offline career
Better AI (promised)
More SUVs and Trucks
Less duplicate cars
Most if not all standards are not PS2 quality
Standards can have number plates
Custom license plates


That's all I can think of that I want right now.
 
PD has already produced software that can run 16 ridiculously detailed cars (and now runs them with adaptive tesselation) in one frame, with a dynamic lighting engine and a day/night cycle, and a super-detailed dynamic weather system, all at (roughly) 1080p @ 60fps, on hardware with difficult architecture from 2006.

I have very little doubt that they can achieve 1080x1920 @60fps on dev-friendly architecture with about 16x the power.

Honestly I don't see why people have an ounce of worry in this regard, unless they try to do another visual cram on this generation, like combining 100 cars on track with perfect anti-aliasing, ray-tracing reflections, volumetric smoke/mist, and dynamic/interactive terrain/track borders in one sitting.

I would imagine they'll try to push the hardware as they always seem to do, but it seems they've learned from their past mistakes. It seems they felt it would be bad taste to go backwards from GT5's visuals, so they found ways to make them more efficient in GT6, while simultaneously increasing their strength. If I'm not mistaken, GT5 ran at 1080x1280, and then GT6 was upgraded to 1440 vertical... So PD is insane when it comes to their capabilities of data compression and efficiency.

In all honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they end up whipping out 4k in GT8 by the end of this generation, similar to what they did with 1080i in the PS2 generation - but that doesn't matter right now. I just want PD to actually make a solid, functioning game that's complete and consistently fun throughout, all the features get proper spotlight, and will give a solid few years of worthwhile gameplay.
 
Quakebass
PD has already produced software that can run 16 ridiculously detailed cars (and now runs them with adaptive tesselation) in one frame, with a dynamic lighting engine and a day/night cycle, and a super-detailed dynamic weather system, all at (roughly) 1080p @ 60fps, on hardware with difficult architecture from 2006.

I have very little doubt that they can achieve 1080x1920 @60fps on dev-friendly architecture with about 16x the power.

Honestly I don't see why people have an ounce of worry in this regard, unless they try to do another visual cram on this generation, like combining 100 cars on track with perfect anti-aliasing, ray-tracing reflections, volumetric smoke/mist, and dynamic/interactive terrain/track borders in one sitting.

I would imagine they'll try to push the hardware as they always seem to do, but it seems they've learned from their past mistakes. It seems they felt it would be bad taste to go backwards from GT5's visuals, so they found ways to make them more efficient in GT6, while simultaneously increasing their strength. If I'm not mistaken, GT5 ran at 1080x1280, and then GT6 was upgraded to 1440 vertical... So PD is insane when it comes to their capabilities of data compression and efficiency.

In all honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they end up whipping out 4k in GT8 by the end of this generation, similar to what they did with 1080i in the PS2 generation - but that doesn't matter right now. I just want PD to actually make a solid, functioning game that's complete and consistently fun throughout, all the features get proper spotlight, and will give a solid few years of worthwhile gameplay.
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Cheers!
 
Quakebass
PD has already produced software that can run 16 ridiculously detailed cars (and now runs them with adaptive tesselation) in one frame, with a dynamic lighting engine and a day/night cycle, and a super-detailed dynamic weather system, all at (roughly) 1080p @ 60fps, on hardware with difficult architecture from 2006.

I have very little doubt that they can achieve 1080x1920 @60fps on dev-friendly architecture with about 16x the power.

Honestly I don't see why people have an ounce of worry in this regard, unless they try to do another visual cram on this generation, like combining 100 cars on track with perfect anti-aliasing, ray-tracing reflections, volumetric smoke/mist, and dynamic/interactive terrain/track borders in one sitting.

I would imagine they'll try to push the hardware as they always seem to do, but it seems they've learned from their past mistakes. It seems they felt it would be bad taste to go backwards from GT5's visuals, so they found ways to make them more efficient in GT6, while simultaneously increasing their strength. If I'm not mistaken, GT5 ran at 1080x1280, and then GT6 was upgraded to 1440 vertical... So PD is insane when it comes to their capabilities of data compression and efficiency.

In all honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they end up whipping out 4k in GT8 by the end of this generation, similar to what they did with 1080i in the PS2 generation - but that doesn't matter right now. I just want PD to actually make a solid, functioning game that's complete and consistently fun throughout, all the features get proper spotlight, and will give a solid few years of worthwhile gameplay.
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Can i just give you a slice of my mind. GT6 i jumped right into after i got my ps3, i had a rrod box and all the Forzas ect. However i grew up on GT 1,2,3,4 so i did skip 5 and bought a slim and gt6. And even my brother agrees to this, the sounds are the worst part about GT6. The physics is what got me, smoke, the traction loss, burnous and direction in GT to me feels more natural. And the #1 thing me and my brother agreed on is the tracks. The tracks are what makes GT hands down the best tracks in any racing game.
 
Quakebass
PD has already produced software that can run 16 ridiculously detailed cars (and now runs them with adaptive tesselation) in one frame, with a dynamic lighting engine and a day/night cycle, and a super-detailed dynamic weather system, all at (roughly) 1080p @ 60fps, on hardware with difficult architecture from 2006.

I have very little doubt that they can achieve 1080x1920 @60fps on dev-friendly architecture with about 16x the power.

Honestly I don't see why people have an ounce of worry in this regard, unless they try to do another visual cram on this generation, like combining 100 cars on track with perfect anti-aliasing, ray-tracing reflections, volumetric smoke/mist, and dynamic/interactive terrain/track borders in one sitting.

I would imagine they'll try to push the hardware as they always seem to do, but it seems they've learned from their past mistakes. It seems they felt it would be bad taste to go backwards from GT5's visuals, so they found ways to make them more efficient in GT6, while simultaneously increasing their strength. If I'm not mistaken, GT5 ran at 1080x1280, and then GT6 was upgraded to 1440 vertical... So PD is insane when it comes to their capabilities of data compression and efficiency.

In all honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they end up whipping out 4k in GT8 by the end of this generation, similar to what they did with 1080i in the PS2 generation - but that doesn't matter right now. I just want PD to actually make a solid, functioning game that's complete and consistently fun throughout, all the features get proper spotlight, and will give a solid few years of worthwhile gameplay.
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No one has any doubts about PD's technical prowess, I'm sure the game will be stunning. What we have doubts about is PD's ability to wrap an engaging, thrilling, immersive game experience around that stunning visual and technical wizardry, along with their ability now to deliver promised features in a timely fashion. The singular lack of development in the both the career mode and now the online experience leaves some of us doubting that PD is able to think outside the narrow little box they first had success with 15 years ago.
 
Imari
Yes, it sounds awfully like they'll be trying to fit everything and the kitchen sink in again, instead of making sure that the core gameplay elements are as refined as they can be.

The problem with GT6 isn't that it's short on features. It's that the features that are there are poorly designed or poorly implemented. I'd far rather they spent time creating an engaging career mode, a robust and customisable single player race creator, and a stable, user friendly online experience.
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Not to be pessimistic but I think that as long as PD maintains their "throw it over the wall" approach to developing each installment of the series, i.e., never engaging directly with the community, legacy issues will persist. How hard would it be for them to have one member of the team post somewhere on a forum and respond directly to the biggest concerns from the community? Everything we get from them is second hand (as far as I know).

PD has already produced software that can run 16 ridiculously detailed cars (and now runs them with adaptive tesselation) in one frame, with a dynamic lighting engine and a day/night cycle, and a super-detailed dynamic weather system, all at (roughly) 1080p @ 60fps, on hardware with difficult architecture from 2006.
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Running with following settings/options there are still frame tearing issues on some tracks.
- 1080p and 1080i disabled in the PS3 XMB
- GT6 display option set to Sharpen
- Full screen view (aka bumper cam)
Given the above the 1080p/60fps claim seems quite dubious in my humble opinion.
 
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HoneyBadger
Not to be pessimistic but I think that as long as PD maintains there "throw it over the wall" approach to developing each installment of the series, i.e., never engaging directly with the community, legacy issues will persist. How hard would it be for them to have one member of the team post somewhere on a forum and respond directly to the biggest concerns from the community? Everything we get from them is second hand (as far as I know).
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Oh, I quite agree.

I really think that the $50k spent on a salary for someone whose job was to spend half the week writing fluff pieces to interact with the community, and half the week summarising the internet "chatter" about Gran Turismo and other racing games into a Japanese language report for Kaz and other designers in Polyphony to read would be the best money they could possibly spend on the game.

Information is power.
 
The technological difficulty was the 'theme' of the whole life of PS3.. It must considered in a making a sensitive critical...
 
HoneyBadger
Not to be pessimistic but I think that as long as PD maintains their "throw it over the wall" approach to developing each installment of the series, i.e., never engaging directly with the community, legacy issues will persist. How hard would it be for them to have one member of the team post somewhere on a forum and respond directly to the biggest concerns from the community? Everything we get from them is second hand (as far as I know).



Running with following settings/options there are still frame tearing issues on some tracks.
- 1080p and 1080i disabled in the PS3 XMB
- GT6 display option set to Sharpen
- Full screen view (aka bumper cam)
Given the above the 1080p/60fps claim seems quite dubious in my humble opinion.
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The point is is that it was done on ~8 year old hardware. I understand it has some stability issues, but there's still PC titles that struggle with that resolution and framerate on modern hardware.
 
Johnnypenso
I wonder why then that DC is only 30 fps.
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That because DC has much, much more detailed environments, especially the foliage. Moreover, it has an advanced lighting engine employing dynamic global illumination. GI is very taxing but makes the final output drastically more realistic.

The PS4 is reasonably powerful but not enough to push high sample count GI (Nvidia has taken up interest in improving GI performance so it should be a norm in gaming engines and thus games by the time the next gen consoles are being designed).
 
Quakebass
PD has already produced software that can run 16 ridiculously detailed cars (and now runs them with adaptive tesselation) in one frame, with a dynamic lighting engine and a day/night cycle, and a super-detailed dynamic weather system, all at (roughly) 1080p @ 60fps, on hardware with difficult architecture from 2006.

I have very little doubt that they can achieve 1080x1920 @60fps on dev-friendly architecture with about 16x the power.
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Even PS4 has LIMITED hardware resources, if they push detail too high frame rate will stutter again. They don't need new 3D models or shaders just better Anti-aliasing and solid 60 frame rate with at least 16 cars on track.

But only 16 cars on track means you can't really have proper endurance racing, since 24h of Le Mans, Spa and Nordschlefie has 40+ cars on track at the same time.
but it seems they've learned from their past mistakes
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And how you can say that exacly?
 
wakas
That because DC has much, much more detailed environments, especially the foliage. Moreover, it has an advanced lighting engine employing dynamic global illumination. GI is very taxing but makes the final output drastically more realistic.

The PS4 is reasonably powerful but not enough to push high sample count GI (Nvidia has taken up interest in improving GI performance so it should be a norm in gaming engines and thus games by the time the next gen consoles are being designed).
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Much more detailed than what? This is my fear for GT7, that Kaz will look at DC and say, "Oh we can't let anyone have a prettier game than us, so hey guys, go out and make a game that looks that good, with 32 cars on track and 1080p/60fps and oh by the way, start working on that 4K thing"

Then what?
 
Really hard to take this KAZ statement serious when they have already confirmed standards will be in GT7. :odd:

I really wish KAZ and PD the best of luck with GT7 on the PS4. Hopefully they can turn the series around with a massive makeover.
 
CAMAROBOY69
Really hard to take this KAZ statement serious when they have already confirmed standards will be in GT7. :odd:

I really wish KAZ and PD the best of luck with GT7 on the PS4. Hopefully they can turn the series around with a massive makeover.
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I don't think standards were confirmed but a possibility IIRC? I doubt he will put standard cars as we know them into the next GT game.
 
Johnnypenso
Much more detailed than what? This is my fear for GT7, that Kaz will look at DC and say, "Oh we can't let anyone have a prettier game than us, so hey guys, go out and make a game that looks that good, with 32 cars on track and 1080p/60fps and oh by the way, start working on that 4K thing"

Then what?
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"doubt"..."fear"...Hey Johnny!
 

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