GTA VI: General Discussion

[prisonermonkeys]

To my mind, the game has to start with the genre - and I think GTA is very definitely noir. Not hard-boiled detective fiction, but actual noir. It's a genre about the desperate, the destitute and the losers; the people who are in danger of being left behind by the world but who cannot get out of their own way (to the point where it's almost a compulsion). Look at the recent run of protagonists: Tommy is the only man of honour in a den of thieves; CJ is a victim of circumstance and someone else's agenda; Niko is in denial about his true nature; and Michael is the architect of his own misery. All of them are their own worst enemy.

In terms of the setting, the series functions as a kind of social commentary. The primary themes of the narrative go hand in hand with the main characters' nature, but always allude to the broader social context. So it doesn't matter where it is set, so long as it taps into a current issue.

 

[Nessy]

To my mind, the game has to start with the genre - and I think GTA is very definitely noir. Not hard-boiled detective fiction, but actual noir. It's a genre about the desperate, the destitute and the losers; the people who are in danger of being left behind by the world but who cannot get out of their own way (to the point where it's almost a compulsion). Look at the recent run of protagonists: Tommy is the only man of honour in a den of thieves; CJ is a victim of circumstance and someone else's agenda; Niko is in denial about his true nature; and Michael is the architect of his own misery. All of them are their own worst enemy.

In terms of the setting, the series functions as a kind of social commentary. The primary themes of the narrative go hand in hand with the main characters' nature, but always allude to the broader social context. So it doesn't matter where it is set, so long as it taps into a current issue.

Interesting.

I wonder how I could tie that in to a 50's Detroit? definitely food for thought.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I wonder how I could tie that in to a 50's Detroit?

It would have to deal with a current issue that was relevant then and now. I would expand beyond Detroit to include the wider Rust Belt; places like Pittsburgh. Maybe even go further afield and pick up Boston (or selected elements of it) to go for a new money vs. old money dynamic.

When I think of Detroit in a GTA game, I think of Norman Rockwell's Freedom from Want - that famous painting of a Thanksgiving dinner - simply because it's so far removed from the state of the city at the moment. But it's also a highly-idealised image, what with the enormous, plump turkey, which mirrors the boom period of Detroit as the heart of the American manufacturing industry. And then you get the who inter-generational gap; the turkey is presented by the older woman and carved by the older male sitting at the head of the table, so there's your new money vs. old money.

If you wanted to tap into the 1950s, I think you would have to find a way to tell the story both in the 1950s and the 2010s. To that end, something like No Country for Old Men is a good starting point; Tommy Lee Jones is the sheriff of a small town who struggles to reconcile the world that he knows with the world that is emerging, represented by the violent arrival of Javier Bardem (if you haven't seen it, it's an absolutely brilliant film). So the protagonist - or at least the deuteragonist - would have to be an older character, someone who remembers the city as it was, and is struggling to restore that glory. Given the age, the deuteragonist role fits better; maybe a city councillor who wants to realise the city's potential, but in doing so, unleashes a Trump/Farage-style monster on the country.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

50's Detroit was brimming with optimism and surface level unprecedented economic equality. You would have to take a very deep dive to produce any interesting friction. You could do it for sure. There were always undercurrents of false idealism and unsustainable business practices (pretty much exactly like SF right now) that caused the unraveling in the 1970s. I'm not sure there is enough obvious meat there for a GTA game. It would have to be a lot more subtle. 1970s Detroit, on the other hand, would be absolutely perfect.

 

[Nessy]

@prisonermonkeys

I don't really know much about the rustbelt (not that I know much about Detroit either), but if it would make sense for those places to be in the game, then I can't see why not. I like the old money vs new money concept too (had to check out that picture you was on about). No country for old men, excellent film. 👍 I think that approach could work really well.

@Eunos_Cosmo

Yeah, I hear you. Maybe the 50's is too far reaching. Though I think a good starting date could be in the 60's. Detroit had a few issues back then what with the introduction of automation in the car plants, leading to rises in unemployment and such. Also the riot that took place in the late 60's and (although I've only just discovered 'Mafia III' existence) Nam war maybe playing a side role.. ie: manufacturing of military hardware, drafting of characters etc etc.

I suppose if the game started in the 60's all the way to present day, the game could have a really deep storyline. I just wish I was good, or at least half decent at writing, as I can picture the game really good inside my head. I think if Rockstar were ever to do a GTA Detroit in that time setting (60's to present day), they would absolutely nail the feel and atmosphere of those eras. The cars, the characters and storyline, the game mechanics and missions, all the way down to the little touches (hubcaps flying off 70's sedans, under hard cornering and glancing collisions etc etc). And they'd wrap it all up with the most amazing soundtrack of any GTA game ever!

I wish I wasn't such a dreamer and could actually get them to make the game.

[EDIT]

Looks like I'm gonna have to get a copy of Mafia III when it comes out next month, as it seems to be set in a similar era (60's, although not the rest). So it will be interesting to see what kind of vibes the game creates.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I suppose if the game started in the 60's all the way to present day, the game could have a really deep storyline.

I think that you could start in the 1950s if you did it right. Keep GTA V's three protagonists, but have one in the 1950s, one in the 1970s, and one in the twenty-first century. It wouldn't be hard to build a story around something like the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.

 

[Nessy]

I think that you could start in the 1950s if you did it right. Keep GTA V's three protagonists, but have one in the 1950s, one in the 1970s, and one in the twenty-first century. It wouldn't be hard to build a story around something like the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.

Yes, that too could work I suppose. 👍

I haven't really read about Jimmy Hoffa, but I'm aware of the Jack Nicholson film about it (I need to watch it). I've watched quite a few vids on YT about Detroit the motor city, as well as some mafia stuff about Detroit, along with a shed load of music (mainly motown), obviously there's a whole load of superb music from those eras besides motown, that I feel would capture a real essence of the times (addicted to Jefferson Airplane, at the moment ).

I also remember watching a good film many years ago called 'Blue collar', I imagine you've probably seen it before. I think it could make an excellent storyline (well, one of them anyway).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I just question whether a game set in the 1970s is necessary. Especially when there are much more pertinent social issues that the game could address in a modern setting. To my mind, a game set in 1960s-1970s Detroit would be more of a sequel to L.A. Noire than Grand Theft Auto V.

The Detroit setting could work. I think that it's very much a city at odds with itself: on the one hand, it wants to cling on to its manufacturing origins; but on the other, hanging onto it origins may do more harm than good. Especially if Rockstar added a second city modelled on Boston or a pre-Katrina New Orleans: a city that is very comfortable in its position and the diametric opposite of the Detroit-inspired city. The space in between could be inspired by Wyoming; sparsely populated, and maybe with a significant Native American population, which could open up possibilities for some Tasmanian Gothic stuff.

Ultimately, it comes down to the story being told.

 

[Lizard]

If they want to keep it in the US then Puerto Rico could be a good place.

 

[t3hgt3ftw1n]

If they want to keep it in the US then Puerto Rico could be a good place.

With the way things are going here in a political, economical, and cultural sense (me being in P.R., and all), then it might be a perfect setting for VI. But then again, that's only if Rockstar intends on staying in the USA. If it's a worldwide setting, then you might as well throw a dart at a map and hope for the best.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I would be inclined to set it in Washington DC and Baltimore. Both have had pretty serious social problems, and Washington is unusual in that it's a city that exists purely to support the political power structure.

 

[Liquid]

Assuming that this game is canon with GTA IV and V, you have to consider any clues in those stories or somewhere which could be made to tie in with those stories. It's a heavy bet that Miami/Key West would be the choice, especially with the popularity of things like Florida Man these days. And it's important to remember that the key metropolises in GTA have been set in stone since GTA 1; Liberty City, San Andreas, Vice City. You'd think that Vice City would be next and a Vice City with leafy lakes and quiet swamps would also fit in well for something which isn't just an urban sprawl.

That said, the "sequelness" of IV -> V was quite minimal with almost none of the main stories overlapping except the characters United Liberty Contact and Karen turning up in V so a GTA VI wouldn't strictly have to follow the same linear path.

For the few people who want it set in a different time period altogether, that would be better suited to being something in the Red Dead series or a new series altogether (Where is Rockstar's Agent?). It wouldn't be a "GTA" game.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind a prequel but don't go so far back. If GTA IV is 2008 how about 2002/03? Or has the nostalgia filter well and truly kicked in and have the 90s become as cool as the 80s were back in the 2000s? San Andreas was hardly the greatest collage of the 1990s in the same way that Vice City was to the 1980s.

Edit: Setting it in "Capital City" would be pretty good though. All the monuments would give the writers a great chance to write history satire. Who didn't love The History Of Liberty City?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And it's important to remember that the key metropolises in GTA have been set in stone since GTA 1; Liberty City, San Andreas, Vice City. You'd think that Vice City would be next

All good points, but you could argue that the series needs to introduce something new to keep itself fresh.

(Where is Rockstar's Agent?)

Cancelled, I think.

 

[Liquid]

All good points, but you could argue that the series needs to introduce something new to keep itself fresh.

I'd say it would be fair to do that after each of the classic metropolises gets the HD treatment, considering each of them has the 3D treatment. GTA VII would be a chance for some new continuity in a totally new setting.

 

[Harakudoshi]

Why isn't it based in Great Britain? Add the Ferry and tunnel to France.

All the different cars, buses, violence, old architecture, castles, art heists, snow, etc.
Tokyo has all that as it is.

Australia would be pretty much what GTA V looks like now.

I remember playing the 2d GTA, plenty of fun back then. Don't know why they abandoned England.

Australia could be interesting. Several times there are mentions of a war between the USA and Oz in the GTA universe. Exploring what led to that, and the fallout from could be very interesting, if R* is interested in building a fictional universe and a history for it.
I picture they could represent Australia in one of two ways:

Either by showing it as a lawless society of godless heathens and criminals, playing off its history as a penal colony. A land where the police and the government have no control over the populace. Gunfights and street racing breaks out in the streets, civilians constantly having to keep their heads down to keep themselves alive. World record highs of crime all across the board. Perhaps that's what instigated the Australia-America war, Australia's lack of society led them to try to invade New Zealand or Hawai‘i (one being a US ally and the other being a US State as in our reality), and America retaliated. Due to Oz having no formal military or training, the American army stomped their invasion out almost immediately. The main character fighting other criminals that effectively run the country for his/her own benefit and also to try to protect those near and dear to them.

Another idea is the exact opposite: portray it as a parody of what Australia is now. A hyper-sensitive nanny state where the government is all knowing and all powerful. It watches everything you do, and polices everything the people do. A totalitarian dictatorship where any individuality is snuffed out. Crime is mostly white-collar, and done from the shadows. Anyone with power is corrupt. And perhaps the reason for the war was particularly greedy Australian government officials tried to steal from say the American federal reserve. Obviously a good cause for a war. The main character mostly fighting and stealing from the government.

Either way, a good mix of city-scape and outback would be good. The main city being a mix of Canberra and Sydney. Rainforest based upon those in Queensland. Steep snowy mountains for the Australian Alps. Large swathes of desert scrub and bush for the Outback where you can do anything you want without incurring a wanted level. Though you have to watch out for the wild animals. Crocodiles lurking in rivers and lakes, Kangaroos that suicide into your car totalling it and kicking you to death if you're on foot. Drop bears that fall from gum trees and maul you. Poisonous snakes. Capability of dying from dehydration and heat exhaustion. Beautiful ocean for diving with fantastic corals and reefs, and hundreds of sharks waiting to tear you to shreds.

Wouldn't even be that hard to come up with names for the states and territories. New South Scotland, Elizabeth, Kingsland, North Australia, Southern Territory, West Territory, Dervonia/Deimenia.

 

[05XR8]

That is interesting. Australia could work in that context. The story would be the main thing. It's just, Australia has the cities and desert. Would look like what we have in San Andreas. The map would have to be huge to take advantage of Australia and New Zealand. Throw in a bit of PNG as well.

 

[Harakudoshi]

That is interesting. Australia could work in that context. The story would be the main thing. It's just, Australia has the cities and desert. Would look like what we have in San Andreas. The map would have to be huge to take advantage of Australia and New Zealand. Throw in a bit of PNG as well.

Which is why I said to incorporate the snow capped peaks of the alps and the humid rainforests of Queensland.

 

[05XR8]

Which is why I said to incorporate the snow capped peaks of the alps and the humid rainforests of Queensland.

Oh definitely. Skiing a big slope James Bond style.

 

[Harakudoshi]

Oh definitely. Skiing a big slope James Bond style.

Raving bands of bandits terrorising the outback in modified muscle cars. Which makes me think. The city could primarily be run by two gangs. Vapid boys, and Cheval lads. If you drive into Vapid territory driving a Cheval, the gang could shoot at you, try to pull you out of your car to beat you up, all manner of things. And vice versa for a Vapid in Cheval territory.

 

[05XR8]

Wolf Creek style characters. So many backpackers.

Running out of fuel in all kinds of transport.
No Sprunk machines in the outback. Might need to survive on a snake or fish in a pond.

 

[Harakudoshi]

Wolf Creek style characters. So many backpackers.

Running out of fuel in all kinds of transport.
No Sprunk machines in the outback. Might need to survive on a snake or fish in a pond.

Finding a crashed lorry to pull fuel from. Having a dog companion, and some annoying bloke in a gyrocopter buzzing around you like a fly.

 

[05XR8]

👍

 

[Harakudoshi]

Seriously, though. Having a dog companion would be interesting. GTA 5 touched on it with chop, but never used it outside one mission. Having a dog that tags along and can help scout out enemies and even help defend you would be an interesting thing to have. And having little side missions that allow you to teach the dog new things that can help you in the story even more.

 

[05XR8]

Like hold a rope tied to a firearm.

The possibilities are endless. Wonder if this time they'll go all in.

 

[Harakudoshi]

Like hold a rope tied to a firearm.

The possibilities are endless. Wonder if this time they'll go all in.

Given how they bowed to outside pressure for GTA 5, I'm worried GTA's best days are behind it as a franchise. Leslie Benzies leaving R* might've had something to with it.

 

[TexRex]

Poughkeepsie, NY seems like a no-brainer for a location to me.

 

[Dan]

I'm currently playing Just Cause 3, and the map is mind-blowing. For those who haven't played it, JC3 is set in the fictional Mediterranean country of Medici. It's made up of several large main islands and dozens upon dozens of smaller ones. Boats and aircraft are a necessity to traverse this enormous map. Easter eggs, collectibles, and side missions are scattered everywhere for you to find, and as a reward for adventuring. I think an island-based map would be perfect for the next GTA game.

 

[Nessy]

Given the age, the deuteragonist role fits better; maybe a city councillor who wants to realise the city's potential, but in doing so, unleashes a Trump/Farage-style monster on the country.

Maybe the Trump/Farage character could be called 'Flatch'.. 'Ronald Flatch'.

I think 'Flatch' would be the kind of character, that has a huge following with the (piss swilling) working class of GTA land.

Could also have a mission titled 'Flatch lives'. Which would entail trying to assassinate 'Flatch' after numerous failed attempts.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Maybe the Trump/Farage character could be called 'Flatch'.. 'Ronald Flatch'

I'm thinking that the protagonist could start out as a relatively minor character, someone skilled in the art of coming and going without being noticed - like a valet or a concierge. They get approached by a seedy private investigator and hired to dig up dirt on certain people (alongside their other extra-curricular duties, like getting drugs for hotel residents or girls for parties). The money's good, so they don't ask too many questions - unaware that they have become a political hatchet-man for a Donald Trump-like figure. But as the tide of the election campaign starts to turn, they become a liability because the candidate realises that they have a real shot at winning, but they want to be squeaky-clean. Cue the private eye trying to kill the protagonist.

 

[Ex_Driver]

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