GTP_WRS-Online : Networking Tips & Discussion

Discussion in 'GTP Weekly Race Series Online Events' started by WRP001, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    Networking Discussions and Tips
    Please use this thread to discuss general and specific issues with your network setup. The OLR team can't solve every problem so we're also looking for feedback from other GTP registry members. The goal of this thread is to provide a dedicated area to discuss issues, solutions, best practices and list setups that work well and those that have shown to be problematic.

    Below is a quick summary to read before posting and may turn into a WRS-OE Networking FAQ over time. If new good information is provided in this thread we'll either copy or link it in this OP over time.

    Background

    Many users have DC or "invisible driver" issues when they first start racing online. With some tweaking of routers/modems things can usually be improved, but not always. If you search around GTP enough you'll find helpful tips scattered about, but we wanted to provide a place specifically for GTP_Registry members to discuss issues, offer help and basically create another WRS community resource.

    If you experience issues your best bet is to plan ahead of time and get these issues resolved during practice so you get in the best possible condition during official WRS races. There's nothing more frustrating then to put a lot of preparation time in and get DC'd from the race.

    The event stewards and hosts are eager to help during practice sessions, but during official races there is a limit to how much we can delay starting races. At some point after several attempts by a driver to exit lobby and return the race director has to make a call to start with known issues or in some cases require a driver sit out because their connection is too problematic.

    The biggest two factors are (1) the connection quality and (ii) the router.

    Connection Quality

    Connection quality/speed is basically divided into two components: bandwidth and latency.

    Bandwidth: This refers to the data rate supported by a network connection or interface. Bandwidth represents the capacity of the connection. The greater the capacity, the more likely that greater performance will follow, though overall performance also depends on other factors, such as latency.
    There is a minimum bandwidth requirement to maintain a connection to other drivers in the lobby. If that requirement isn't met the driver will experience lag (as will others near this driver) and eventually a DC or even a lobby refusing entry.

    The exact requirement depends on the size of the lounge (# of drivers) and the lounge settings.​
    • Fewer drivers in the race obviously means a lower bandwidth requirement.
    • Lower race quality settings reduce bandwidth requirements.
    • Lower mic settings or disabled mics lower requirements further.
    The game also tends to send more frequent updates when you are close to other cars so the requirements go up at the beginning of races or anytime a large group is racing close together. Unfortunately, those are also times when incidents are more likely and lag is more troublesome.

    You can test your speed using http://speedtest.net and all troubleshooting should start with this test and publishing your results to this thread.

    Latency: Latency is another element that contributes to network speed. The term latency refers to any of several kinds of delays typically incurred in processing of network data. A so-called low latency network connection is one that generally experiences small delay times, while a high latency connection generally suffers from long delays.
    Satellite Internet service illustrates the difference between latency and bandwidth. Satellite Internet connections possess both high bandwidth and high latency. When loading a Web page, for example, most satellite users can observe a noticeable delay from the time they enter a Web address to the time the page begins loading.

    Low latency is more important than very high bandwidth in GT. You only need to satisfy the minimum bandwidth requirements for a room to get a good connection, but if you have very high latency you're never going to keep a stable connection to a lobby.

    You can test latency using http://www.pingtest.net/ and all troubleshooting should include this test and publishing your results to this thread. A ping test isn't perfect as it only tests a single path that might not be the same path used when you connect to a lobby. But if you get a bad ping result to a server near you then you know you have a latency issue.​

    Sharing a Connection

    Remember the effective speed of the connection to your PS3 depends on not only your base connection to the ISP, but the load in your household sharing that bandwidth. If you have a very fast ISP connection, but have others in your household streaming movies, music, etc. the traffic left for the PS3 may be very little.

    QoS: Unless you can convince your household to stay off the internet while you race (good luck) you could check out routers that can prioritize traffic using QoS. They can be set up to give your PS3 higher priority or carve out a minimum bandwidth for your PS3 while sharing the rest with other devices. These routers are sometimes marketed as gaming routers at a premium price, but any router that supports QoS properly could meet your needs. Search the internet for 'gaming router' or 'QoS' for more information. If people use these settings and post to the thread we can link to those posts or gather more information in this section.​

    Connection Types

    Wired Ethernet: The gold standard and always preferred/optimal if you have the option.

    Wifi: Wireless signals can be easily interfered with by portal phones or other electronic devices and quality is always a function of distance and radio traffic. It's not that wireless connection can't work, but use wireless at your own risk in a game or any other application where a constant and steady connection is a requirement. You may experience no issues with a rock solid wireless network, but be prepared for the occasional DC anyway when you use wireless even if everything else is perfect with your connection and hardware. Wireless is a much better platform for email, web browsing or even video streaming where the occasional dropped packet or slowdown isn't really that important or noticeable. Some drivers use wireless the majority of time and connect a wire for official online races and some drivers have no option but to use wireless due to the physical location of their PS3.

    Powerline Networking: Powerline adapters can be used to reach remote parts of larger homes where wifi may not work and Ethernet cabling is not possible. The effectiveness is highly dependent on the wiring in your home and the exact route from point to point. Again, you are introducing a lot of variables that are not present with Ethernet cabling, but it might work. Use at your own risk, but post to this thread if you have an effective and solution that has been solid.​

    Solutions

    Extremely low bandwidth or high latency cannot really be addressed without upgrading your connection or maybe switching ISPs. If your network cannot keep up with the traffic requirements then nothign you do with your in home setup is going to make a difference. In these cases you just won't have the capability to race online unfortunately and the time trials are your best bet. It's possible that your connection speed can maintain a decent quality of race with a few drivers and you'll just have to run some event and see in practice what the limit is for your setup.

    Modem Issues. The modem usually isn't doing much translation so usually isn't a problem. However, if you have a combined modem/router than all the section under router applies. In our opinion it's much better to separate the functionality. Get a simple modem from your ISP and buy a good router yourself.

    Wiring Issues. If you are using wired connections make sure all connectors are well seated and the cables are not crimped, bent or damaged. Shorter cables are better, but really a good Ethernet cable rarely has much signal loss even up to 100 feet.

    Router issues are the biggest culprit and can be addressed. A router is the device that allows many other devices in your home to share a single internet connection (and single internet public address). Routers can interfere/block the information being passed between each driver and cause all sorts of problems. If a router does it's job properly the game will work properly, but many have compatibility issues which can cause individual drivers to not appear in your "version" of the race (invisible driver). In the worst cases a router can immediately disconnect you from the lobby or prevent you from connecting in the first place.

    Methods to address permanent/persistent router problems:​
    • Upgrade the router firmware to the latest version (check the mfg support site)
    • Do one of the following. All except UPnP require you to set up your PS3 on a fixed IP so the router knows which address the PS3 will be on every time it connects.
      • Enable UPnP on the router and make sure it's detected by your PS3 using the XMB connection test.
      • Set up your PS3 via it's fixed IP as your DMZ host (one local device exposed to the Internet to use a special-purpose service such as gaming).
      • Forward ports from your router to your PS3's fixed IP. GT6 uses the following ports:
        • TCP: 80, 443, 5223
        • UDP: 3478, 3479, 3658
        • Each of those ports should be open or forwarded to your PS3. Try finding out in the manual of your specific router how to do that. More info in the official GT6 manual
    • If possible and potentially better than the above, physically bi-pass the router, connect PS3 directly to modem and thus set up a NAT 1 connection. This will prevent others in your household from sharing the internet including you if you own a second device like a laptop and use it while you race.
    • Replace your router with a proven GT friendly model (hope to gather some info in this thread)
    Methods to address random quirky behavior or glitches:​
    • Disconnect and re-connect to the lobby
    • Power off and restart all network equipment involved in the connection. This includes the modem, router and any switches being used.
    • Power off and restart the PS3
    • Clear the cache in GT
    • Try connecting again
    Sometimes if you enter the lounge early it helps. Sometimes if you are last to enter the lounge it helps. Sometimes you have no issues with most other drivers, but one or two always cause problems for you. It can just be random and frustrating at times, but if you set up your own connection optimally you remove variables and hopefully make issues less common even if you can't eliminate them.
    There are many of us that have very few issues after having done all the above and some of us who just have connections that will never be full proof so your mileage may vary.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2018
  2. GTP_Patrick1

    GTP_Patrick1

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    I recently hardwired my PS3 with Ethernet cable, via the coax cables that were used for my Satellite TV system. My PS3 was in a location that would have been difficult to run an Ethernet cable, so the idea of using the coax was appealing. My satellite system is Directv with whole home DVR( all receivers networked and internet running over coax). It is possible with satellite or cable tv to break out an Ethernet cable connection to your PS3 from the coax. For cable tv you need a MOCA adapter, for satellite you need a DECA adapter. For either install you need a splitter, MOCA or DECA adapter, 2 short coax cables, Ethernet cable and internet running over your coax system. If you do not have your satellite receivers networked with a connection to the internet, you must have this in place to make it work. For cable, many people that have cable tv have internet from the same cable company. It is important to purchase the correct adapter and splitter depending on if you have satellite or cable. There are different scenarios for each install so it may take some research or ask me, maybe I can help. The installation for me did not degrade my sat signal, ps3 ping test, or my upload/download bandwidth and I now have a hardwired PS3 connection. The cost of the parts I needed for Directv installation was less than $20, the adapter for cable is about $50 more than the adapter for satellite for some reason. The site below has lots of information for dealing with Satellite systems. http://www.dbstalk.com/page/index.html
     
  3. hasslemoff

    hasslemoff Premium

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    Ive got network problems on a Weds night at the moment called, everyone in the house using the internet. After my lag on lap 1 last week I asked who was on the internet in the house.
    Results:
    • Wife: ipad streaming a TV program plus mobile phone on Facebook
    • Eldest: Skype on Tablet, Skype on Laptop and Animal Jam on the same laptop plus youtube on her phone
    • Youngest: Skype on Tablet, Skype on Laptop Plus Moshi Monsters
    • Me: PS3
    Not bad really if it only effected the first lap, but instead of the kids been told no internet at 8:30 its now changed to 7:30 on a Wednesday :lol:.
    My PS3 is wired straight to the wireless modem but ive never done the DMZ thing, if I did that would it take all the internet speed away from everyone else :mischievous:

    P.S Meant to post this after last Weds and forgot.

    Heres my results from the laptop, again everyone's on the internet.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. PASM

    PASM Moderator

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    If you are unable to setup a DMZ for the PS3 mode, or enabling UPnP doesn't work, you should try to work on your router setup.

    First thing you should do is to give your PS3 a static IP address
    Once you have that, you can enable port forwarding.

    GT6 uses the following ports:
    • TCP: 80, 443, 5223
    • UDP: 3478, 3479, 3658
    Each of those ports should be open or forwarded to your PS3. Try finding out in the manual of your specific router how to do that.

    More info in the official GT6 manual

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2014
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  5. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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    DMZ won't take speed away from anything. It just opens the PS3 firewall for a stronger connection.

    Edit: I don't understand the need for Skype on multiple devices at the same time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2014
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  6. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    @hasslemoff, if your PS3 is connected directly to your modem AND your family is sharing the internet connect then you have a modem that is also a router. A simple modem won't share a connection, that's a routers job. Quite a few people have combine modem/router devices. It saves space and a few more cables... but a lot of times those routers are not as good as stand alone versions... depends on the model.

    Your speeds are good enough from that test, but remember although people might be connected to the internet when you took the test, at the exact moment of the test they may not be pushing/pulling much data so with a shared setup it's hard to tell. Take a test when you are 100% sure nobody else is connected and compare it to a few during prime time usage to get an idea.

    The high tech solution to shared connection, that still involves sharing, is to get a router that has QoS functionality. Quality of Service means it can give higher priority to devices you choose and lower priority to other devices. In some cases you select the IP of your PS3 (should be a static IP for this to work long run just like with DMZ) and just select priority "high" for that IP. With more advanced routers you can specify all sorts of options.

    Not sure if your combined modem/router supports QoS... which is why I have a simple modem and a very capable router that's a separate device supporting the features I need.
     
  7. hasslemoff

    hasslemoff Premium

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    Because you can only have 1 person on video call with one device, so the more devices the more video calls you can make its only what ive been told by them unless you pay for premium :)

    @WRP001 Ill look into that Qos feature, its a fairly new router/ modem/ wifi thing lol
     
  8. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    If you need help, just list the modem/router model here. We can use you as a crash test dummy. :lol: Before you fiddle with QoS or anything update the firmware to the latest version so you are working with the most recent stuff.
     
  9. hasslemoff

    hasslemoff Premium

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    I'll get it posted tomorrow when I get back from work.
     
  10. GTP_Patrick1

    GTP_Patrick1

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    I had upnp and dmz, I just wanted to get it hardwired, and this solution of using the available coax worked for me. I never really had an issue with wireless with dmz and upnp, but after reading about wireless issues, just wanted to remove the last obstacle to having a stable connection.
     
  11. PASM

    PASM Moderator

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    Yeah, sounds like you already had a good setup and took out the last uncertainty :tup:
     
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  12. hasslemoff

    hasslemoff Premium

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    @WRP001 time to be a crash test dummy.


    ROUTER: Netgear CG3101D

    Basically a Virgin Media Super Hub, hope this helps.
     
  13. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    So as is the case with the ISP issued devices, support from the mfg is sparse. This model does NOT support advanced features such as QoS according to this review. It does support UPnP, but not sure how well they implemented it.

    Basically Netgear won't touch this on their support site (no docs, no firmware upgrades) as that is left to the ISP.... another issue when you use the hardware the ISP gives you. Which is why it's best to get a simple modem from the ISP and get your own router.

    Maybe someone else who uses Virgin Media can chime in if they have gained access to the control panel for this device or upgraded firmware or have instead a "dumb" modem and their own dedicated router?
     
    hasslemoff likes this.
  14. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    PS> @hasslemoff... if you had your own router there is a way to move the Super Hub into "modem" mode basically making it a dumb device and handing off routing function to a better router:

    http://help.virginmedia.com/system/...&LANGUAGE=en&COUNTY=us&VM_CUSTOMER_TYPE=Cable

    If you are paying "extra" per month for the "super hub" it may be possible to downgrade to a modem only device and use the savings to buy a good router. Not sure, but if your connection is working OK and you don't want to spend money on a router and have an extra device with plug and cable you might be better off just leaving it alone. :lol: If you were having big issues in GT then it's definitely worth trying it.
     
  15. hasslemoff

    hasslemoff Premium

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    @WRP001

    Dont have a clue if im paying extra, the wife deals with all the bills I just get pocket money :lol:.

    My connection is normally fine, I did have problems when I first joined WRS a few years ago with DC's, lag and invisible drivers, but since I switched to a ethernet cable I can say that ive had very few problems and maybe 2 DC's.
    Last Wednesday was a one off really with everyone at home hammering the internet and it caused Lag on the first lap, so the QoS function sounded good, I might invest in a router with that feature and I know were to come if im having problems :sly::)
     
  16. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    :tup: Well if you do that, you know you can turn off the router features with your "Super Hub" so the option is there at least without any changes involving Virgin. :cheers:
     
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  17. GTP_CargoRatt

    GTP_CargoRatt

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    I have a question. Is it possible to put more than one device in DMZ mode and will it affect either of the two devices as far as performance goes. I ask because I already have my PS3 in DMZ, but my roommate has a device hooked to his TV that basically turns his TV into an internet TV where he can stream Hulu, Youtube, ect. He has been having buffering problems where it will stream for a few seconds, then start buffering, then streams some more, ect. It does this constantly and never streams for more than a few seconds before buffering. I know this question is kinda unrelated to the subject here, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  18. oink83

    oink83 Premium

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    How much bandwidth do you get? It could be possible that (with whatever else running) it's struggling to keep up with the amount of data needed for the streaming.

    A good test to start with if you haven't already, is try streaming something when nothing else is running (turn ps3 off laptop etc) and see if it still has that problem. As far as DMZ goes, I'm not the expert on that someone else will have to chip in on that.
     
  19. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    Not normally. Most routers meant for home use have only one public IP and only allow one internal device on the DMZ.
     
  20. GTP_CargoRatt

    GTP_CargoRatt

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    Alright then, thanks for the reply. Guess he'll have to suffer then because I'm not giving up my DMZ. :lol:
     
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  21. oink83

    oink83 Premium

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    Although as I said, I don't suspect the problem that's going on there is due to router/firewall problems. Peer-to-peer connections etc can often get blocked depending on what ports they are accessing. UPnP opens out a lot of that by opening common ports etc. because routers often come pre-setup to "protect" from other people connecting to you. Simply receiving data from a server is a different matter and that seems to be the problem.
     
  22. sanrensho

    sanrensho

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    Hello... long time GT Planet user here. Finally have a buddy to race with online (never really tried to race online before GT6 because my friends only want to play COD) but now as we try to join eachother's lobbies, we have encountered numerous disconnects. We had one good session, but the next day no joy connecting.

    I have a wireless connection for my PS3, and but so, can someone explain why i've never had to muck with my router to play COD or Heroes Over Europe but when I want to play GT6 online, it's so complicated? Is there something uniquely demanding about racing (compared to, say, COD) that makes UDnP and Port Fwding necessary? Or is this yet another incomplete-game-type issue?

    Thanks in advance for your responses.
     
  23. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    Probably poor implementation of UPnP in GT5 coupled with a more demanding set of communications requirements between players versus other games. I have no idea really, but connection problems are abundant in GT6 just like they were in GT5.
     
  24. sanrensho

    sanrensho

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    Thanks for the quick response. I guess it's comforting to know that the issue isn't unique to me.
    I'm going to try a long ethernet cable and see what happens.
    It's a shame it's so difficult/archane to play GT online.
     
  25. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

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    Once you get it working it's pretty consistent. Fast Connection + Low Latency + DMZ + Fully Wired = pretty reliable. Some people have constant issues, others seem just fine 99% of the time. Also take into account the others in your household using the net at the same time.
     
  26. sanrensho

    sanrensho

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    Cool. Thanks again for the help. I know there are other threads on this issue here and there on GTplanet, but they are hard to find. I found a couple of links that seem like good step-by-step instructions for optimizing a wireless connection:

    http://adamcook.wordpress.com/2008/04/04/how-to-get-flawless-online-gaming-with-your-ps3/
    and (for those using netgear routers):
    http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-3/PS3-into-DMZ-with-a-Netgear-router/td-p/6132400

    wish me luck!
     
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  27. Harsk100

    Harsk100

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    How to clean caches on GT6?
     
  28. Gravitron

    Gravitron Moderator

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    Hit Start, then choose Options, then Network. Do this often.
     
  29. Napalm_LT

    Napalm_LT

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    Never did that. What is it?
     
  30. Harsk100

    Harsk100

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    What are network caches?