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Discussion in 'GT6 Racing Series' started by DirtyNurbKing58, Oct 19, 2014.
I'm really fed up of this, I can never get a good nights racing in
For the record alex will probably be disqualified for completing an extra lap
Sorry guys but I had to go! Looking forward to racing you guys again!
Good racing all, although i was either leading and missed the action, or right at the back and missed all the action.
Storm not sure how you could stay with the guys when you were -28hp in race 2, that Ford is fast!
Yeah some nice racing tonight, shame my net messed up again :/
Good race 3 though. I planned to let you past yuc but the straight did that for me couldn't get past emo in the last sector
I've got to be honest guys and girls, I'm not loving the success penaltys anymore.
Iv only had a few races so far this session on full power (were the car is competitive) the rest of the time its been a case of damage limitation
like tonight I drove it on the limit lap after lap yet still got easily passed on the straights, even when I'm battling with someone I feel I have to overdrive it to pass them yet knowing I can't defend on the straights. I just don't want people to think that I'm being impatient. I know that if I had full power I could enjoy a great battle with anyone on the grid
I know it's a success penalty so if I wasn't doing so well It wouldn't be an issue, but at the minute it's killing my fun
They seem to have almost too big an impact, I am back end of the podium with no penalty and then back to 10th ish as soon as I have a penalty, could they be dialed back a bit, maybe around half what they are now?
I think it's keeping the championship exciting, although yeah you're right it's probably killing some races (i was last in race 2). We did already dial back from -10 per position in S1 to -7, but I guess the GT86 is just too slow on the straights with the penalty.
Since there's only 3 rounds left, I'd keep the current format until the end, and try slightly different values for S3? Or could we do something different with the ballast for GT86?
We do have plans to bring them down to -4/5bhp. But as yuc said should we really do it with so close to the end? Can I get opinions please.
I've noticed it affects the FR cars much more
What about having weight and power penalties combined? I.e -4/5bhp w/ a 20kg ballast?
Definitely dont change it mid season!
But -4/-5 next season may work better.
I did consider that, but the thing is it may not actually work, and will be quite complicated. I thought dropping it lower values so less of a deficit, but should still keep it exciting
with next season cars I bumped the bhp to similar values and just added a lot of weight instead, hopefully this works
It can take a while to get everyone applying the correct BHP penalty as it is.
If you have -bhp and +weight it will be a nightmare on the night in the room between races.
Also with a weight ballest this can effect rwd more than fwd, as with a fwd the extra weight can help it rotate and corner better.
I think it affects the FR cars more because they generally have less power to start with. Maybe make it a percentage rather than a specific number. 5% for winner, 4% for second etc. Should mean a more even penalty for each car and drive type. Easy enough to do with Excel or Google Docs (which I think you are using) and just needs someone to shout out required power between each race.
Although overall I still favour weight penalties, it means a skilled driver can adapt to the new balance a bit but (if the penalty is severe enough) they will absolutely lose performance, it also means the penalty affects the whole track more evenly. Rather than just the performance on the straights.
I agree that the car that has the weight penalty is slowed over the whole lap rather than just the straights as apossed to bhp penalties.
But a + weight penalty on a fwd car is less of a "penalty" as the weight may be used to rotate the car more/move the balance further back (reducing understeer)
Edit: Idealy i would have no penalties for the fast/leading drivers, but a small penalty to allow for a tighter pack/differant winners occasionally is understandable.
I don't think it's less a penalty on a FWD car, you can balance them however you want at the standard weight just be taking weight off and adding ballast to the required standard so I don't see how it favours FWD, if anything RWD might carry it better as they can carry more speed (and momentum) through corners so you are spending less time and energy slowing and accelerating the extra weight.
It also means that, say a 70KG penalty even if the balance isn't affected, is a big thing to adjust to with virtually no tuning time (maybe a lap or two between races) regardless of the car, it could mean a corner that was flat in 4th now needs a small lift or a DAB of the brakes, it can introduce mistakes for those not careful which IMO is a more interesting penalty. You might only lose 0.2 on a perfect lap, but if you can't push as hard as you could before the penalty then you have to choose how you drive the car!
The only reason I say it effects a rwd more is that in a series I ran in before,
The weight the fwd car ran at was say 1200kg but it's "fully weight reduced" weight was only just under that so you didn't have enough ballast to get the balance right, so when i received a weight penalty it would allow me to put the weight further back making it handle better if you get me?
As we mentioned before we did try weight, but it made the cars better. You shouldn't really get to use it to help you, it defeats the object
But I think the percentage is a good idea pam, give FF and FR different reduction limits
Edit: missed a post, the following is in response to Xflow
Oh right OK, it might be for specific cars at specific settings but I think in general it wouldn't favour any drive type, for the Scirocco (and whatever other car I tested, Civic I think) you have plenty of wiggle room to get it right at the standard spec so it's not an issue. It's something to consider though, if you planning a series with weight handicapping then you need to ensure there is enough room to work with for all the cars.
I have done something similar before that adjusts every cars weight after each race to try to give everyone on the grid roughly the same lap time, It's worked really well in the past but it does mean normalising all the cars at their median available weight (or all running the same car, support race style!). I have already done this and have the list and hugely overcomplicated calculating spreadsheet somewhere. I will have to dig it out and have a look some time.
Yeah weight penalties need specific sets of circumstances to work well, the cars need to be selected and balanced with weight in mind and you need significant increases to have any difference (in my experience about 2-3% weight increase starts to slow you down) it doesn't work if you haven't thought carefully about it and tuned and balanced cars to fit!
The percentage system would give each car a different penalty and should mean that 1st place in the Focus carries a similar lap time penalty to 1st place in the FR-S. At the moment one suffers much worse with the same cut in power.
Yea if weight is done right like you said I think it could work very nicely.
But yea would take some figuring out, and a night with a calculator but would be worth it.
Also maybe "real" draft could be tested for next season?
I think "weak" draft exadurates the speed difference a little. Maybe
I will PM you the stuff I already have tomorrow. It kinda means reinventing the series so it might not be a good idea for this series but it is good fun!
I think you have a point mate, will think on it all
too confusing all this
I'll be honest.
The current pen situation is great. I can get between 3rd to 6th with -35bhp.
If we lower that pen for me it would make it easier. Abit too easy?!
I've done 80% of the championship at -35bhp and it is really hard. At Tokyo I was loosing 3 seconds a lap. Pure 3 seconds lost through leading the championship.
So let's look at it this way. A) if I lead the championship all the way through then I can never win race one. Maybe win race 2. But then at the back for race 3 so can't win that.
B) If I wasn't at the front I would win race two then mid pack for race two and win race 3.
Well senario A I get less points than senario B. And with dropped scores I could never get a big points haul.
Now I don't mind cos I'll just get my head down and race. I enjoy having to push to fight.
P.s. Don't choose the FR car cos it doesn't have enough power.
I like the idea of having a percentage penalty on the cars rather than a fixed bhp one. It does look like it might fix the issue of penalties having a bigger effect on some cars than others...
I think just man up and drive
Except you buck.
Woman up and drive.
my unlucky moments at yesterday's round at grand valley
Followed by the strange/unusual argument but ended on time for me not to be late,
I have never encountered so many distractions during a race night.
firstly, I'm ill and have been for almost a week now,
-race 1, 1st lap- My mum puts on the juicer so I couldn't hear the engine, causing me to go off
-race 1 again, later laps- my aunt walks by in front of the tv very slowly, causing me to outbreak and almost take out my team mate
-Race 2- I get a good position off the line, and eventually am fighting for third place behind buck, when my dad walks past the tv and decides to linger right in front of it for 3.5sec, causing me to go off and loose 3-4 places (all that effort wasted)
Race 2- my sister sits next to me on the sofa and drops some orange squash on me , which I couldn't wipe off my clothes since I was driving. This affected by concentration causing me to make mistakes.
Race 3- because I'm ill, I hadn't ate all day, so everyone in my family were eating and kept telling me to turn it off and join them. It got realllly annoying so I eventually turned it off (cus its just a game).
Honestly, nothing anywhere near close to this has happened to me during racing before.
luckily during these moments I didn't cause any accidents (I hope I didn't), so the only person I think deserves an apology is my team mate ric. I'm sorry for letting you and the team down, its been a bad debut to a new team and a return back to the series. I hope it goes better next round.
Wow that sucks, I've had times where I have been distracted by my family, but I think the annoying one for me is mosquitoes flying I and around your face and hands (always the face and hands!!!!). Squished one on my lip because I was mid corner and I couldn't use my left hand to slap the bugger eating my right thumb.
But anyway, about discussions...
I would like to say that as much as it would be a good idea to change the system regarding bhp pens, we'll have to save it for next season or try it out in fun races over the festive break. I know my car has good top end speed, but up until the season started it felt like for the power it had, it wasn't using that power effectively.
I noticed at RBR that I would have the overspeed on duker even with a bhp cut, so I know that my tune is a factor. I should have been quicker than I was at Tokyo with the cut in Race 2 but that was my fault for messing with the tune I had. Also, thanks to a glitch I ended up 13 seconds behind yuc, which had this not happened would have made 1st place a very hard fought fight, as we were tooth and nail prior to the pitstops.
90% of the time you'll see me post a time on the thread, and often it what my pace is at -35 bhp. Like Emo, usually it puts me in good stead for a podium or a decent mid table finish to set me up well for the next race, especially if I top 5 in R1 and mid table R2.