Has PD ever seen a real rally race?

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"When in doubt, flat out", Colin McRae said once. The people who code GT's AI for rally races still haven't got the memo, though. Seriously? They're afraid to let the car break out even a little! Are they afraid to get their cars dirty?
 
I'm surprised there aren't more posts in this thread.

I got to the 'Dirt Trials' yesterday and was pretty much disappointed afterwards. Where GT6 has been an improvement on GT5 in pretty much all areas, the rally aspect (well the bit that I've encountered so far) seems to be unaltered. Okay, maybe that will change one day, but currently Milestone with WRC 4 did a far, far better job of the physics. I also don't understand why there would be other cars on the course at the same time, and being apparently driven by octagenarians taking their poorly pet to the vets...they went so slowly around the bends at Toscana :odd: not a bit of sideways amongst the lot of 'em!

Okay, I suppose calling them dirt trials precludes the need to emulate an actual rally event - but GT5 at least had that. I do live in hope that GT7 will give us better off-road physics.
 
It's not just rally races. The AI in general needs a serious overhaul.

Well, apparently the AI has been modified, to accommodate a wider market :rolleyes:
Or in other words, lets make it slower, so anybody who hasn't played a GT game before in their life, can still win races easily :eek:
 
Have you ever watched rally racing? There is no need for AI in rally. However I also think that PD aren't much into rally because the tracks are too wide and no real point to point, no puddles, no mud, and the snow ir really off.

The physics are really fun on a wheel and much better than GT5 though
 
Cars don't feel very lively in Rally Races so I find it boring in GT. Surfaces are way too slippery as if it's all medium grain all the time everywhere.
 
Atleast GT5 got it partly right, I really liked the time trials with the split times shame the bloody map was always in the way, Why can they not bring that back.
 
"When in doubt, flat out", Colin McRae said once. The people who code GT's AI for rally races still haven't got the memo, though. Seriously? They're afraid to let the car break out even a little! Are they afraid to get their cars dirty?

Colin McRae just about destroyed every car he rallied in!
 
Colin McRae just about destroyed every car he rallied in!

Still one of the best rally racer that ever existed!

And we miss him... :(

On topic: The AI is even more lazy on rally. Even I hit in the walls (I'm a bad driver on dirt and snow in GT), I still get the 1st position. :D

Dear God... Why?! I want a challenge! Not a traffic! :banghead:
 
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Have you ever watched rally racing? There is no need for AI in rally. However I also think that PD aren't much into rally because the tracks are too wide and no real point to point, no puddles, no mud, and the snow ir really off.

The physics are really fun on a wheel and much better than GT5 though

If you're talking WRC, then no, there's no need for AI. But this isn't WRC (Besides the Special Stages) because you're not driving point to point. In Rally Cross, however, there's multiple cars racing against each other. And those guys aren't afraid to get a scrape or a fender bender.
 
Not even close. Everyone knows the rally drivers of all rally drivers were the Group B pilots. One name from that era stands above all: Walter Rohrl.

That too.

And I should have put "one" there, before a flame war appears...

Edit: Done.
 
That too.

And I should have put "one" there, before a flame war appears...

Edit: Done.

rabble.jpg
 
For me the problem is being in a rally car and having to see and pass other cars. They should just do that "disable collisions" thing from GT5 online racing.
 
Trying to see the track whilst following in someone else dust cloud is difficult. First i see of a corner is when they brake and appear from the dust cloud, right in front of me.
As for the format, don't have a problem with rally cross, but how about proper rallycross format, heats and finals. While they're at it, they've got track licences for brands hatch, which has a real life rally cross track. Could have added that.

Then theres rally career progression. In gt5 your first rally level was in low pp cars. Tier 2 was 4wd road cars. Only then did you get to go out in wrc/group b. Defo could fill out content a bit with super 1600/wrc2 class races, preceeded by road car pp limited races
 
Trying to see the track whilst following in someone else dust cloud is difficult. First i see of a corner is when they brake and appear from the dust cloud, right in front of me.
As for the format, don't have a problem with rally cross, but how about proper rallycross format, heats and finals. While they're at it, they've got track licences for brands hatch, which has a real life rally cross track. Could have added that.

Then theres rally career progression. In gt5 your first rally level was in low pp cars. Tier 2 was 4wd road cars. Only then did you get to go out in wrc/group b. Defo could fill out content a bit with super 1600/wrc2 class races, preceeded by road car pp limited races

With Will Gollop's Metro 6R4!
 
Rally cars themselves are quite fun to drive. They are well modelled, have very realistic physics and altogether a joy, but how the races are made, is a different story altogether. AI in sp is horrendous and online quickly turns into bumpfest. All that products of a simple problem. Rally stages in GT6 are circuits. Rally never was circtuit racing, it's simple A to B, one car at a time racing.

It should be really easy to program for both offline and online races. For first, just predetermine AI times and have player try beating them, for online, just have everyone as ghosts, starting at same time.
 
For me the problem is being in a rally car and having to see and pass other cars. They should just do that "disable collisions" thing from GT5 online racing.
I had to go for another view in the end, it made things easier to see. Normally though I drive from the driver's viewpoint, but when visibility is like this:

Eiger Nordwand W Trail _2.jpg


I find it too much :) plus my Scoobie had one of those sun shields that blocks off the upper third of the windscreen...
 
The quality if the AI in all races, makes it look like PD has never seen a race, at all. It's almost they don't know what it looks like, its like all they have seen is NASCAR. = rolling start.
 
I love rally, but I don't like the rally of GT5/GT6, because the control of the car is totally different from what it has to be, and many others rally simulators too. Every Colin McRae, or the new WRCs games are just fine, the car seems to has a good control, similar to real rally cars, but in GT5 or 6, when you have to make a closed curve.. it's a pain in the ass.

I prefer a good control in rally, than a harder AI.
 
Is there any point to point rally in GT6? Any stages with pace notes?

GT5 had it.
 
So far the rally component in the entire series has been poorly implemented imo. GT6 is just more of the same especially when compared to games like Dirt and Mobil-1 on the PC. The GT rally physics have always felt terrible, and the whole experience through the years has mostly been a disappointing snooze fest on a wheel. Love the franchise just not the rally part of it.
 
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What can I say other than i'm incredibly disappointed with Dirt and Snow :mad: :banghead:. However, my main complaint about Dirt and Snow is not the AI, but the near disappearance of Dirt and Snow tracks as well as their neglect
GT4 was the last time Dirt and Snow was properly implemented and well done. Under the Special Conditions section, there were events for all 7 Dirt and Snow Tracks, as well as 3 city ones and a wet version of Tsukuba:
Dirt & Snow
  • Cathedral Rocks Trail I (Used sections of the El Capitan Track, which has also disappeared :grumpy:)
  • Cathedral Rocks Trail II
  • Chamonix
  • Grand Canyon
  • Ice Arena
  • Swiss Alps
  • Tahiti Maze
City Courses
  • Citta di Aria
  • Costa di Amalfi
  • George V Paris
You had to race on each track six times-three times forward and three times backward-and raced for 2 laps, 3 laps and 5 laps respectively and competed against rally base model cars, modern WRC cars, Group B cars, even LMPs on the road tracks. There were also driving missions and several license tests devoted to dirt driving...

Also, although GT3 had fewer Dirt and Snow tracks, such as Smokey Mountain and Tahiti Circuit, there was a requirement to complete a rally license before doing the events (I forgot how the events were composed. I believe though that it was similar to GT4). GT2 had a section of Pikes' Peak (also, Red Bull leaked an article about Pikes' Peak being in GT5, which never happened) and GTPSP had all of the GT4 tracks plus another version of Cathedral Rocks: Trail III.

Unfortunately, GT5 ditched all of that, and brought the Dirt and Snow track count back down to 3 (along with one dirt and one snow course maker theme). On top of that, compared to the 7 tracks x 6=42 events you did in GT4, there was not one single event offline besides the special events-which were the WRC special event, which used Course Maker generated themes (that were not used in any other event), the Sebastian Loeb Rally Challenge special event and one race within the Grand Tour special event (bear in mind I don't include the Seasonal events in my argument)

Similarly, GT6 only had one race event devoted to Dirt and Snow-although we'll have to wait and see about three things:
  1. The Course Maker: If there are any Dirt and Snow themes
  2. DLC: If any Dirt and Snow themes are offered
  3. Sebastian Loeb (spoiler alert :p): In the ending credits under celebrity voice actors, it mentions Sebastian Vettel along with Sebastian Loeb
One of the only improvements was the weather and day/night transitions as well as the increased number of (slow) opponents. Other than that I'm very disappointed with Dirt and Snow in both GT5 and GT6 :grumpy:. I hope that their DLC plans include bringing back at least a few of these tracks as well as including more course maker themes (once added), adding more snow tracks (as the old Charamoix, the new Charamoix and Ice Arena are the only Snow circuits in the GT Franchise in comparison to 9 Dirt circuits), and maybe taking advantage of the snowing Nurburgring glitch by adding it as a weather variation.

PLEASE BRING THESE OLD TRACKS BACK PD! :grumpy:
rant over...
 
I really loved rally in GT3 & GT4, but there is something in GT5 & GT6's rally that I dont like and I dont know what it is!
 
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