HDTV help!

[garthed]

Some one earlier in this thread posted something about Vertical Lines going across there screen when the game is in 480p and 1080i. I to am having this problem. Is there a fix to this. I have tried different cables and a differenet GT4 and it still does this. I ma using an older ps2 could this be the problem?

Thanks

 

[Polyphony001]

here is a pic of my mess....damn I need to clean up

Holy hell, thats worse than my room!

 

[feldon23]

and I have mixed feelings on the 1080i

It appears that antialiasing on all geomatry edges has been shut off in this mode. I see lots of fluttering pixels. However I can see a lot more detail over all, and it makes it easier to see turns coming.

PS2 doesn't have antialiasing. The shimmering on road, grass, fence, and tree textures drives me up the wall on PS2 games (this didn't happen on Dreamcast because of interframe blending). 1080i is the closest PS2 will come to antialiasing and I think GT4 looks the best GT will ever look on PS2 for it.

Realize that to do antilaliasing, until they come up with a better way, the console or system has to render each frame at 4 times normal resolution and then scale it down, and do that 30-60 times per second. So to play a 720 x 480 game on a TV and antialias it, they console/system has to play the game at 1440 x 960. PS3...

 

[jackmugen]

I ma using an older ps2 could this be the problem?
Thanks

i have a older ps2 its just the game. i dont have this problem with socom 2 in 480p

 

[ancona46]

if your tv does not support 480i you are pretty much screwed there is nothing u can do...i know alot of samsung,phillips,zenith,mitsubishi tv's do not support it

 

[oryan_dunn]

I have the Philips 30PW850H and it does support 480i/480p/1080i on both component inputs. The philips projection sets, however, usually only support 480i over one component, and 480p/1080i over the other. I have no clue why they would design a set like this.

 

[flynn]

PS2 doesn't have antialiasing. The shimmering on road, grass, fence, and tree textures drives me up the wall on PS2 games (this didn't happen on Dreamcast because of interframe blending). 1080i is the closest PS2 will come to antialiasing and I think GT4 looks the best GT will ever look on PS2 for it.

Realize that to do antilaliasing, until they come up with a better way, the console or system has to render each frame at 4 times normal resolution and then scale it down, and do that 30-60 times per second. So to play a 720 x 480 game on a TV and antialias it, they console/system has to play the game at 1440 x 960. PS3...

Thats not how FS-AA (full screen Antialiasing) works at all....you are way off. It doesnt scale the whole image up then scale it back down. You are thinking super sampling lol. It works by calculating edge stepping, then accommodates it by using pixel value stepping (in denominations of 2x, 4x, etc)

You are correct that ps2 can not render FS-AA in hardware...however they have been using software based FS-AA (well kinda) after the first generation in games. which basically reduced jaggies to a tolerable level. And to say PS2 has no AA at all is just silly. all the texures have it. Like I said...when you go into 1080i mode, all that software based FS-AA is tossed, or at least thats what it looks like to me. But its way better in that mode cause you can see more information imo.

Hope this helped explain.

 

[texasjohn]

I am using a plasma, I get these horizontal lines about 1/4 way down from the top of the screen, just below the car rear view mirror occasionally during the license tests on some of the modes, the 480p and 1080i IIRC. I tried a new copy of GT4 as well, it seems better now but I swear it did it once last night in 1080 mode, just for a second. My PS2 is the older style but I only bought it 18 months ago.

I dont find a great deal of difference between any of the 480 modes, as my plasma monitor has built in i/p conversion hardware (480i signal is automatically converted to 480p) I think the hardware in my Sony plasma might be better at doing the interlace to progressive conversion so I usually have it on 480i and let the screen do the work.

Also, as the native resolution of my plasma is 480 lines high, I find the 480 modes look better than 1080i - I always get the shimmering along fencing and grass textures in 1080 as well, IIRC, I think it's because the plasma has to downconvert 1080 to 480 in order to display it.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Sony PFM42V1 for any plasma gurus that can help out

Anyone else using a EDTV plasma, similar results with GT4?

side note: Anyone with a expensive HDTV ALIS 1024x1024 plasma is going to be in heaven with this game, as 1080 is nearly = 1024. Anyone?

 

[jackmugen]

does anyone not have these lines and boxes while in 1080i. what cables are you using and what model ps2.

 

[eggmann]

I don't have any "lines" anywhere. I'm using the 1080i setting on a 27" Advent with cheap component video cables, I think by MadCatz or whatever is the cheapest you can get at Best Buy.
My PS2 is model SCPH-50001/N.

 

[SniperKil]

our HD set up is great (60" SONY) OEM Sony S-video cable to the tv = no probs

you own that nice big HDTV.. and even call it a HD setup.. but that couldent be farther from the truth with svideo cables.. obviously you dont know much about TV's but.. Svideo = 480i.. meaning that picture.. since its 16:9 is actually 720x480 interlaced.. (a TV from 1960 is 480i)

if you were to go out and get component cables.. and put your GT4 into 1080i mode.. it would THEN be high definition.. @ 1920x1080 resolution..

but as your running right now.. yuor running a crappy signal to an expensive tv.. if you think the picture looks good now.. please get proper cables to match your setup

 

[oryan_dunn]

does anyone not have these lines and boxes while in 1080i. what cables are you using and what model ps2.

Yes, I see them, but only in a ligth colored sky. They look like thin vertical slits and they are usually pretty hard to see.

you own that nice big HDTV.. and even call it a HD setup.. but that couldent be farther from the truth with svideo cables.. obviously you dont know much about TV's but.. Svideo = 480i.. meaning that picture.. since its 16:9 is actually 720x480 interlaced.. (a TV from 1960 is 480i)

if you were to go out and get component cables.. and put your GT4 into 1080i mode.. it would THEN be high definition.. @ 1920x1080 resolution..

but as your running right now.. yuor running a crappy signal to an expensive tv.. if you think the picture looks good now.. please get proper cables to match your setup

I would bet that TV has a better scaller in it than does the PS2. In that case, the 480i image would look better than the 1080i image negating the need for the component cables. On my lower end HDTV, the difference between 480i, 480p, and 1080i is marginal at best, with the 1080i having slightly crisper text.

 

[Neurotik18]

Hi Children. To display GT4 in true 1080i mode, this is what you do:

You must own a HDTV monitor capable of receiving and displaying 1080i signals. Most plasma, LCD, and DLP televisions are 720p. There are some plasma monitors out there capable of displaying 1080p, but they're about $20,000-$30,000. (You don't own one.) Most projection HDTV's are 1080i. (I have a Mitsubishi 55" 1080i projection HDTV.)

If you get past that step, please read on.

You must buy the PS2 component (YPrPb) cables. I hear that Sony sells some, but I have the $60 Monster cables because that's all my Best Buy had at the time.

You must go into the PS2 system options, and set the video output to YPrPb.

Boot up the GT4 game.

Go into the Screen Options, and set the aspect ratio to 16:9.

While still in Screen Options, set the output to 1080i. If you still see something...IT WORKED!!

If you have an EDTV, plasma, LCD, or DLP, do everything above, but set it to 480p. The game will still look fantastic, and not too different from the 1080i. By the way, the game only runs in advanced modes while racing. (When you're buying Mustangs, it's in 480i.)

If you don't own an HDTV, I suggest you study hard while you're still in school.

 

[the Interceptor]

You must own a HDTV monitor capable of receiving and displaying 1080i signals. Most plasma, LCD, and DLP televisions are 720p. There are some plasma monitors out there capable of displaying 1080p, but they're about $20,000-$30,000. (You don't own one.) Most projection HDTV's are 1080i. (I have a Mitsubishi 55" 1080i projection HDTV.)

A lot of the displays have 720 physical lines, but they can still handle 1080i. So I wouldn't say that you must have a bleeding expensive one, cheaper ones will accept 1080i as well. I recommend to check the manual if your screen is 1080i-ready.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

 

[SniperKil]

1080i is THE HDTV standard.. so any tv calling it self a HDTV WILL take 1080i signals.. even if they scale them down to 1280x720

and whoever said that the 480i image will look better then a true 1080i.. BLAH to you sir..

 

[flynn]

A lot of the displays have 720 physical lines, but they can still handle 1080i. So I wouldn't say that you must have a bleeding expensive one, cheaper ones will accept 1080i as well. I recommend to check the manual if your screen is 1080i-ready.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

he was talking about 1080p not 1080i

and the only way a 720p native display can run 1080i is by scaling. which sucks imo.

 

[jasond9263]

does anyone not have these lines and boxes while in 1080i. what cables are you using and what model ps2.

I to have this same problem in 480p and 1080i mode. I am using a 65" Mitsubishi TV and some monster cable component cables I purchased back when the first Socom cam out. Didn't have the problem on Socom

 

[Nitroboy24]

I think my stupid self had the 3 colored wires plugged in wrong when I tried playing GT4 the first time. Decided to give it another shot Saturday and it works like a champ 👍

(And yes I feel like a moron )

 

[oryan_dunn]

...and whoever said that the 480i image will look better then a true 1080i.. BLAH to you sir..

Since the HD picture that the PS2 is outputing is just upconverted 480i, it's not true HD. While it is a true HD signal (1080i), the source is not true 1080i; kinda like upconverted dvds. While the 1080i will look best on most setups, if you happen to have an excelent video scaler or an excelent scaler built into your tv, then having the ps2 output 480i would be a better choice, especially if your display is native 720p.

 

[rjcc]

Since the HD picture that the PS2 is outputing is just upconverted 480i, it's not true HD. While it is a true HD signal (1080i), the source is not true 1080i; kinda like upconverted dvds. While the 1080i will look best on most setups, if you happen to have an excelent video scaler or an excelent scaler built into your tv, then having the ps2 output 480i would be a better choice, especially if your display is native 720p.

What?

Have you tried thinking this through?

 

[the Interceptor]

he was talking about 1080p not 1080i

Does that matter?

and the only way a 720p native display can run 1080i is by scaling. which sucks imo.

True, but a downscaled 1080i may still look better than an upscaled 480i/p, don't you think? And if I had a 720 line display that will accept 480i, p and 1080i, I'd just give it a try and then judge which one looks the best. My point was that a display can accept 1080i/p signals even if it doesn't have 1080 lines.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

 

[oryan_dunn]

What?

Have you tried thinking this through?

Yes, as is evident by the logic in my post.

 

[rjcc]

Yes, as is evident by the logic in my post.

there was very little logic.

whether or not it's true that the ps2 is merely "upconverting" the signal, there is ALMOST 0 CHANCE your tv is going to do a better job upconverting the signal than the ps2 would in hardware.

It is nigh unpossible, your tv would accept an analog signal, even through the rgb cables, and be able to make that look better, through simple line doubling, than the ps2 would be able to convert the still digital image, with no loss of image quality.

I don't care if you're using Jesus' pubes for video output, it's not going to be better that way.

 

[the Interceptor]

Yes, as is evident by the logic in my post.

So basically what you're saying is that the Playstation always produces 480i, it just scales it up to 1080i internally. So, if you have a good scaler in your TV it's better to use that one to generate 1080i, meaning you have to set your Playstation to 480i.

The thing is that 1080i is not just upscaled from the Playstation. This has been discussed many times before, and a lot of people have claimed that the Playstation just does some upscaling on the normal image. But that is not true, the Playstation does actually produce 1080i using some tricks.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

 

[oryan_dunn]

Normally, I'd let posts like this go and not respond, but since your information is incorrect, I feel I have to so others don't get the wrong impression.

whether or not it's true that the PS2 is merely "upconverting" the signal, there is ALMOST 0 CHANCE your tv is going to do a better job upconverting the signal than the ps2 would in hardware.

First, the PS2 uses software algorithms to output 1080i, as well as 480p. It does not do that stuff in hardware. Originally, PS2 games could not output 480p, but Sony updated their SDK to allow developers to do this. Second, the 1080i is an upconverted 480 signal. 1920x1080 is a huge resolution that even most modern computers running a game like GT4 could not handle (unless you have a newer graphics card, which cost more than the PS2 did when it was new).

It is nigh unpossible, your tv would accept an analog signal, even through the rgb cables, and be able to make that look better, through simple line doubling, than the ps2 would be able to convert the still digital image, with no loss of image quality.

All the signals the PS2 outputs are in fact analog, even 1080i is carried on the analog component connection. A digital connection would be a DVI or HDMI connection. If you reread my post more carefully, you'll see that I do address the very issue you bring up. I said that if your tv has an excellent scaler, you could achieve better than the ps2 can do. By excellent I mean something like a Faroudja DCDi scaler. Some tv's do have something more than a simple line doubler. Mine, however, does not. So in my case I use the 1080i output. Or, if your Mr. Money Bags, you could get a standalone scaler, something like a DVDO product: http://www.dvdo.com/pro/index.html

I don't care if you're using Jesus' pubes for video output, it's not going to be better that way.

You must not be religious.

 

[raeanin]

Just so everyone knows, you can get sony component cables for 9 bucks at amazon, best investment you can make for your ps2 = )

 

[rjcc]

Are you a retard or did you just not read what I said?

the ps2 signal WITHIN THE PS2 is DIGITAL. after it goes out of the ps2, it is analog. it is IMPOSSIBLE that your tv isgoing to get BETTER results from an analog compressed image, than the original digital image.

cotdamn man, how much of a fool are you trying to look like?

Normally, I'd let posts like this go and not respond, but since your information is incorrect, I feel I have to so others don't get the wrong impression.



First, the PS2 uses software algorithms to output 1080i, as well as 480p. It does not do that stuff in hardware. Originally, PS2 games could not output 480p, but Sony updated their SDK to allow developers to do this. Second, the 1080i is an upconverted 480 signal. 1920x1080 is a huge resolution that even most modern computers running a game like GT4 could not handle (unless you have a newer graphics card, which cost more than the PS2 did when it was new).



All the signals the PS2 outputs are in fact analog, even 1080i is carried on the analog component connection. A digital connection would be a DVI or HDMI connection. If you reread my post more carefully, you'll see that I do address the very issue you bring up. I said that if your tv has an excellent scaler, you could achieve better than the ps2 can do. By excellent I mean something like a Faroudja DCDi scaler. Some tv's do have something more than a simple line doubler. Mine, however, does not. So in my case I use the 1080i output. Or, if your Mr. Money Bags, you could get a standalone scaler, something like a DVDO product: http://www.dvdo.com/pro/index.html



You must not be religious.

 

[oryan_dunn]

So basically what you're saying is that the Playstation always produces 480i, it just scales it up to 1080i internally. So, if you have a good scaler in your TV it's better to use that one to generate 1080i, meaning you have to set your Playstation to 480i.

Correct

The thing is that 1080i is not just upscaled from the Playstation. This has been discussed many times before, and a lot of people have claimed that the Playstation just does some upscaling on the normal image. But that is not true, the Playstation does actually produce 1080i using some tricks.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

Well, I've seen both sides reported, and based on the computative power of the PS2 and the complexity of a game like GT4, the current consensus is the upconverting story. I guess it just depends upon which side you believe. Until (or rather if) we ever get some hard specs on this, it may be up for discussion.

 

[oryan_dunn]

Are you a retard or did you just not read what I said?

the ps2 signal WITHIN THE PS2 is DIGITAL. after it goes out of the ps2, it is analog. it is IMPOSSIBLE that your tv isgoing to get BETTER results from an analog compressed image, than the original digital image.

cotdamn man, how much of a fool are you trying to look like?

Well, I've got to back to work, but check out www.avsforum.com

They have some discussion on this issue, and yes, while working with a digital image and upscaling that would be better, doing it half assed in digital wont be as good as doing it on an analog signal with a top of the line scaler.

Later,
Ryan

 

[rjcc]

Well, I've got to back to work, but check out www.avsforum.com

They have some discussion on this issue, and yes, while working with a digital image and upscaling that would be better, doing it half assed in digital wont be as good as doing it on an analog signal with a top of the line scaler.

Later,
Ryan

Actually I DO read avsforum.

What you're describing can be possible on say, digital cable,

because the pictures been degraded so badly already and compressed before it ever gets to the box.


It may be possible if you have a dvd player thats outputting a digital signal, but it ain't gon happen in this case.