HKS CT230R Tuner or Racer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GYMKHANA_RYAN4
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Tuner or Racer?

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    319
Yev
*Sigh* PS3 browser...
There are no facts posted here which would support the theory that HKS CT230R is a tuner. Only the game (GT5) classes it as tuner, puts it in tuner races, it's cheaper than race cars and it comes on sport softs - that's your only argument in this debate, an error within GT5.
People go on and on about how HKS is a tuning company and how Lancer Evolution is a street car, OK I say, now why don't people claim that GT500, DTM, WRC (etc.) cars are tuners too?
C'mon...
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Ok then, what class it belongs to? GT500? GT300? WRC? DTM? F1?
It belongs to the Tuner Class. C'mon..
 
stanong11
Ok then, what class it belongs to? GT500? GT300? WRC? DTM? F1?
It belongs to the Tuner Class. C'mon..
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Unlimited Class AWD, duh. It was only mentioned in this thread about 40,000 times. :lol:
 
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stanong11
Ok then, what class it belongs to? GT500? GT300? WRC? DTM? F1?
It belongs to the Tuner Class. C'mon..
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HKS USA
... Competing in the Group A (Unlimited AWD) category, the HKS Racing Performer CT230R Circuit Time Attack Car ...
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Does that make it clear enough?

Side note, this thread reminds me of the "which is faster, auto or manual?" thread.
 
Unlimited AWD was only the format used in the Super Lap Battle. Below is a description on how they format different classes. CT230R was in unlimited AWD because it was limited by tire used and also by it's drive train.
Unlimited AWD don't form a Class/Type/Genre/ whatever term you might like to call it like a GT500 car, rally car, DTM, or F1 cars.
Class/Type/Genre/ or whatever term, Tuner gave it its identity. Racer doesn't.

http://superlapbattle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/SSTP-2010_Rulebook.pdf

A) STREET CLASS
1. Full interior must be retained with the exception of the items below:
a) OEM seats can be changed out for approved racing seats.
b) Factory panels may be cut to allow for safety items (roll bar, harnesses etc…).
c) Rear seats may be removed.
d) Exceptions may be allowed but must be signed off from a NASA tech inspector
and Super Lap Battle event official.
e) All cars must retain the heater core but AC may be removed. .
2. Tires must have a minimum UTQG rating of 180.
3. NASA is managing vehicle inspection, timing, and scoring. Your vehicle(s) must
meet the basic requirements for street vehicles (HPDE) as stated in Section 11 of
the NASA CCR, found at: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf. Ensure
your vehicle will pass inspection. Contact us if you have any questions. If you arrive
and your vehicle is deemed unsafe, it won’t run.
B) LIMITED CLASS
1. Limited Class vehicles must have legal registration in their country of origin.
2. Windows must retain the factory glass.
3. Tires must have a minimum UTQG rating of 80.
4. NASA is managing vehicle inspection, timing, and scoring. Your vehicle(s) must
meet the basic requirements for street vehicles (HPDE) as stated in Section 11 of
the NASA CCR, found at: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf. Ensure
your vehicle will pass inspection. Contact us if you have any questions. If you arrive
and your vehicle is deemed unsafe, it won’t run.
C) UNLIMITED CLASS
Unlimited vehicles are bound to the following rules:
1. Tires must meet standards per section III however, no minimum
UTQG rating required
 
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GYMKHANA_RYAN4
So why is it so cheap in comparison to any race car of similar performance figures


http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/07/01/car-feature-gt-gt-the-hks-ct230r-evo.aspx
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A little extract from that link and even the person writing it does not know ??
HKS is a TUNING company and sells parts to tune cars not neccesarily for tuned cars there are lots of cars around the world that look very similar touring cars are very similar but they are clearly race cars the HKS may be just a race car but in HKS livery what would you call a wide body evo that was painted white for example?
"To even call the HKS CT230R a tuner car is a bit of a stretch, but since the car is built and campaigned by one of the world's biggest tuning companies I'd say the name fits"
 
GYMKHANA_RYAN4
A link that I posted earlier said it was a stretch to call it a tuner car.

Yet it still referred to it as a tuner car
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I remember that link, read it too. And yes, based on the article, they mentioned it was a stretch to call a tuner car, and it was meant as a compliment. Cause it was too well built. But the fact remains that it is a tuner car.
 
Can someone who thinks it is a "tuner car" please give your working definition of "tuner" and "race car"?

Please don't quote from some blog or something either. Just because some guy with a web address says something, doesn't make it so.

If a car is built for the purpose of competing in a time attack event or series, what is it?
Let's say the car is built by TRG, Flying Lizard or the manufacturer of the base car itself, instead of HKS, is it a race car now, or is it still a tuner?
 
You know what's the real deal here? Lets be honest:

The real unspoken reason here people are fighting the point that this car is a tuner car and not a race car, is because they need and they want to keep an advantage (or read cheat here) for ''street tuned'' race, to paliate their unhability to efficiently drive a car... Stop arguing for nothing. Every race team, engineers, professionnal pilots and whatever who work in the racing industry will arrive with the same conclusion:

ITS A RACE CAR PERIOD!


Sorry if im a bit crude, but this is making me boiling when we are trying to explains reality facts and people keep acting like narrow-minded. Come on!
 
Sonicwave
You know what's the real deal here? Lets be honest:

The real unspoken reason here people are fighting the point that this car is a tuner car and not a race car, is because they need and they want to keep an advantage (or read cheat here) for ''street tuned'' race, to paliate their unhability to efficiently drive a car... Stop arguing for nothing. Every race team, engineers, professionnal pilots and whatever who work in the racing industry will arrive with the same conclusion:

ITS A RACE CAR PERIOD!


Sorry if im a bit crude, but this is making me boiling when we are trying to explains reality facts and people keep acting like narrow-minded. Come on!
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And this, is a classic example of narrow-minded.
 
HKS may say it "performs well for a tuner car", but really... Mercedes sells a "four-door coupe" and plenty of cars get advertised as "sports cars" when in reality they're just economy cars with bigger wheels and engines.

This seems like a generally pointless argument for both sides though. If you want to call it a tuner, racer or a grocery getter, be my guest.
 
Hey dude, i dont want to light the fire here, but let me tell you something: do you know what do i do in real life?

-I work full time as a mecanic,
-I tune car,
-I race on real race tracks on the weekend (The real thing bro, not talking GT5 here..)
-I attend to alot of races.

So this makes me a narrow-mided person? Humm.... I think i know what im talking about buddy. Otherwise, do you really think i would post comments here?

Yours to judge...
 
Sonicwave
Hey dude, i dont want to light the fire here, but let me tell you something: do you know what do i do in real life?

-I work full time as a mecanic,
-I tune car,
-I race on real race tracks on the weekend (The real thing bro, not talking GT5 here..)
-I attend to alot of races.

So this makes me a narrow-mided person? Humm.... I think i know what im talking about buddy. Otherwise, do you really think i would post comments here?

Yours to judge...
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Because of this
The real unspoken reason here people are fighting the point that this car is a tuner car and not a race car, is because they need and they want to keep an advantage (or read cheat here) for ''street tuned'' race, to paliate their unhability to efficiently drive a car.

Respect if you have a point to prove in regards to topic, but not if you judge especially when it's speculation.
 
A Time Attack is a race to secure the fastest lap time possible.
Also, I think the R stands for Race.

I think that it is a race car.
 
freedomweasel
HKS may say it "performs well for a tuner car", but really... Mercedes sells a "four-door coupe" and plenty of cars get advertised as "sports cars" when in reality they're just economy cars with bigger wheels and engines.

This seems like a generally pointless argument for both sides though. If you want to call it a tuner, racer or a grocery getter, be my guest.
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But it's not even an advertisement. When official source call it a tuner and yet it can't convince, i don't know what can.
 
stanong11
But it's not even an advertisement. When official source call it a tuner and yet it can't convince, i don't know what can.
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It doesn't need to be advertising to be wrong. That wasn't my point. In my day-to-day work at my job I see companies refer to their products with the incorrect terms all the time. Not in advertising, just listed on the spec sheet or something. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't. The point is, that just because someone says something, even if they are in some authority position, doesn't make it right. HKS could call it a tuner car all day long and a lot of people would still disagree with them, because the car was purpose built for a race.

As an example, if Mazda started referring to the Mazda5 as a "sports car" or as an SUV/light truck, would that make it one? Or would you say "yeah right", and still call it a weird little mini-van thing?

In any event, I'd like to hear your definition of "tuner car" please. Also, explain how the CT230R differs from something like a World Challenge or Continental Tire Series car, which if I'm recalling correctly have more in common with the base car than the CT230R does.


Counter_Z23
Yes, but the Civic is road legal whereas the CT230R isn't.
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Plenty of things aren't road legal and aren't race cars.
 
stanong11
Ok then, what class it belongs to? GT500? GT300? WRC? DTM? F1?
It belongs to the Tuner Class. C'mon..
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You do realize that a car does not have to be built to a specific race class to be a race car, yes?
The Zonda R is a race car. It wasn't designed for any series. The Ferrari FXX is a race car. It wasn't designed for any series. They are both still race cars.

stanong11
I remember posting a link from HKS
this is what it says

HKS CT230R has made a lot of fastest records as a tuning car.
The street version of CT230R was developed based on feedback from CT230R.

here's the link
http://www.hks-power.co.jp/db/product_chart.aspx?LN=EN&N_ID=546
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Yeah, we already went over why that link doesn't mean anything.
For starters, the CT200MR is a completely different vehicle from the CT230R, being a mildly tuned Evo VIII that HKS put a body kit similar to that of the CT230R on. Not even the same body kit. Similar.
 
But it competed in a Time Attack. As I said before, a Time Attack is a race to secure the fastest lap time possible.

Even if you think that the Time Attack doesn't count, have a look at the car's characteristics. It has racing aero parts. I'm pretty sure that HKS intended to build it so that it can be a real racing performer.

Of course, one can argue that the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo has got racing aero parts, but that car is road legal, so it doesn't count.
 
Counter_Z23
But it competed in a Time Attack. As I said before, a Time Attack is a race to secure the fastest lap time possible.

Even if you think that the Time Attack doesn't count, have a look at the car's characteristics. It has racing aero parts. I'm pretty sure that HKS intended to build it so that it can be a real racing performer.

Of course, one can argue that the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo has got racing aero parts, but that car is road legal, so it doesn't count.
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true +1
 
GYMKHANA_RYAN4
Tuners don't have to be road legal. Take drift cars. They have heap loads of power, when tuned right they can turn very well. They're nor race cars nor road cars.
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Sorry to disappoint you, but they have to comply with MSA rules in the uk and are scrutinized before competing. so i would say there are race cars and if its got a number plate its a road legal race car. my supporting data is the WRC
 
Yev
Only the game (GT5) classes it as tuner, puts it in tuner races, it's cheaper than race cars and it comes on sport softs ..
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So it's a tuner then right?

gtplanet -> Gran Turismo 5 -> GT5 Questions & Answers -> HKS CT230R Tuner or Racer?

Seriously why is everyone up in arms on this?
 
arora
So it's a tuner then right?

gtplanet -> Gran Turismo 5 -> GT5 Questions & Answers -> HKS CT230R Tuner or Racer?

Seriously why is everyone up in arms on this?
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Because it's the internet, and it's more fun to argue with strangers than it is to fill out excel sheets. 👍
 
The argument for tuner is just growing to be desperate. When all concrete facts point against you, just make up some irrelevant criteria! Eg: "It's road legal! An article about it has the word 'tune' in it!"

Race Car: It was built for racing in a racing series, it was built like a race car, it raced in a series, etc. and more

Tuner car: It looks like an Evo.

@arora: We're discussing the car. Not where PD put it. GT is not by any means an authority in classifying cars.
 
freedomweasel
Because it's the internet, and it's more fun to argue with strangers than it is to fill out excel sheets. 👍
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^^^so true 👍
@sonicwave
We're not fighting to keep an unfair advantage. At least I'm not.

If you'd paid attention to one of the other threads in this forum that I have up and running at the moment 'Fastest Car Under 600pp' (A catagory that fits the HKS really quite nicely) you will see that it has been beaten by many other road cars around the Nurburgring (A course that is easier in AWD IMO) including RWD cars such as the Mclaren F1 and the Ferrari Enzo, Zonda S, GTR and even the HPA Audi TT (A tuner car that has headlights and is road legal) so it in no way has an advantage over similar PP Tuner cars. Race cars such as DTMs are clocking times up to 20 seconds faster than these when tuned to a similar PP.

They're all around the same PP and all road cars, they all perform similarly (Lap Times) if not better than the HKS (for my driving style at least)

So in no way do people entering HKS's into 'No Race Car' rooms have an unfair advantage.

I just want to know people's opinions on whether the car should be allowed in these 'no race car' rooms so that I can actually be at ease with enjoying driving/racing this car online (Because it's fun). :)

@Zenith013

We're discussing the car within Gran Turismo 5 (It is in that section) in which PD seem to class it as a tuner
 
GYMKHANA_RYAN4
@Zenith013

We're discussing the car within Gran Turismo 5 (It is in that section) in which PD seem to class it as a tuner
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If you/we are truly discussing the car according to GT5 categories, then it's a fairly black and white answer of "it's a tuner car right or wrong".
 
GYMKHANA_RYAN4
^^^so true 👍
@sonicwave
We're not fighting to keep an unfair advantage. At least I'm not.

If you'd paid attention to one of the other threads in this forum that I have up and running at the moment 'Fastest Car Under 600pp' (A catagory that fits the HKS really quite nicely) you will see that it has been beaten by many other road cars around the Nurburgring (A course that is easier in AWD IMO) including RWD cars such as the Mclaren F1 and the Ferrari Enzo, Zonda S, GTR and even the HPA Audi TT (A tuner car that has headlights and is road legal) so it in no way has an advantage over similar PP Tuner cars. Race cars such as DTMs are clocking times up to 20 seconds faster than these when tuned to a similar PP.

They're all around the same PP and all road cars, they all perform similarly (Lap Times) if not better than the HKS (for my driving style at least)

So in no way do people entering HKS's into 'No Race Car' rooms have an unfair advantage.

I just want to know people's opinions on whether the car should be allowed in these 'no race car' rooms so that I can actually be at ease with enjoying driving/racing this car online (Because it's fun). :)

@Zenith013

We're discussing the car within Gran Turismo 5 (It is in that section) in which PD seem to class it as a tuner
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I complelty agree with you bro, this car can be easely outclassed when match on PP, but, by example if you set the server with HP and KG restriction, there will be big advantage driving the CT230R.

Think about it on its own classe (HP/KG) instead of PP compared with normal street tune car.

Here's an good example: The first month i had my hands on GT5, y was running a server under the name : EVO vs STI and we ran the test between ''normal'' tuned car VS the CT230R, and it was a real unfair advantage against these car. As soon a you bring these race car competing in the class its pretty obvious to see the performance gap vs normal car...
 

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