Holden and Ford

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The green eyed monster would be a welcom adition. Im hoping for FPR and HTR.
The Xr6 and typhoonvcould be the most deadly aussie car with turbo tuning stage four.

HSV are not exectly part of holden but i would expect them to be inclueded. Ive seen a screen shot of the australian car manafactures list is had ford holden and Fpv and then the things that link them and are yellow and there was one below the Fpv so expect hsv if you ask me.
 
SimRaceDriver
If I had known that Holdens where in fact just a rebranded Pontiac GTO produced by GMC, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place now would I!

Thanks for the clarification though!

The GTO was rebadged from the Holden Monaro, the Holden Monaro was already 4 years old when the US adapted it. What has GMC got to do with it?

Radicool02
No the GTO is a re-badges Holden. The GTOs were built right here in my state I think.

Yes Jack, havent you been past the factory? lots of GTO's parked in the storage lots.
 
VIPERGTSR01
The GTO was rebadged from the Holden Monaro, the Holden Monaro was already 4 years old when the US adapted it. What has GMC got to do with it?



Yes Jack, havent you been past the factory? lots of GTO's parked in the storage lots.

My friend works on the Monaro/GTO production line in Adelaide Australia. As far as I can remember my history, Holden used to make sheet metal bodies for horse drawn buggies and then later moved to making cars, they started with making bodies for General motors chasis I THINK back in the really far away past but made the first all Australian car in 1948, that car was called the FX Holden and had a straight 6 engine that is now called the grey motor, because that's the colour it's painted. Then came the FJ Holden, FE, FC, FB, EK. Then there was a big change in design and there was the EJ Holden still with the grey motor and then a similar but different car called the EH Holden. The EH one of the really classic Holdens and it was the first car to come with the new much more powerful "RED" motor : ).

Then came the HD that has a very weirdo shape to it, so it was quickly changed into the HR, that was another classic good model. Then came a new car, The HK and this is when the Holden V8, was introduced, it had and alloy manifold and water pump and compared to the small block chev it was a bit of a light weight space ship, so in the day it got named the plastic motor : ). But later on it would prove to be quite a weapon for Holden in the races in their smaller lighter cars.

The HK,HT and HG Monaros could be bought with many different sizes of the RED 6 or the Holden V8 OR the small block Chev V8. Then came another all new car called the HQ, if you look close at a HQ you can see that it has alot of features the same as a Camaro of the same age. Then came similar but less cool looking cars, HJ, HX and HZ. There were still two door Monaro versions of those cars until the HX. But the real performance car during the 1970's was the Torana, it started life as a modified Vauxhall Viva, being changed more and more until it evolved into the absolute weapons LC, and LJ XU1 Torana's that owned the race track right when one of Fords best ever cars the Falcon GTHO was in it's prime. The LC and LJ Toranas were a super hot version of the RED six with triple carburetors.

I'll continue my Holden story in about an hour : )
 
FordFalcon
HSV are not exectly part of holden but i would expect them to be inclueded. Ive seen a screen shot of the australian car manafactures list is had ford holden and Fpv and then the things that link them and are yellow and there was one below the Fpv so expect hsv if you ask me.
HSV is directly part of Holden. Hence Holden Special Vehicles. It's the performance part of Holden.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing both SBR cars. That way I could smash them with my HSV road/race car.
 
HSV has their own licenses though, and according to the last article about Australian cars, HSV is not in GT4. FPV (Ford Performance Vehicles) however obviously is.
 
Ok, I'm back : ). I don't think HSV is in GT4 because they are in other dodgy games for the moment. Anyways after the XU1 Toranas and the XY GTHO phase 3 were released a jouranlist called hmm I can't remember at the moment, well he wrote an article about how the new Australian "Super cars" were too dangerous and it was costing alot if peoples lives because they were undrivable in bad conditions. There was some truth to his story because back in the day and Falcon GTHO could smoke the tires through every gear in the gearbox no problem, but you have to remember road tires in 1970 were not anything like the sticky tires we have today. This is also why the origianl quarter mile times of the GTHO and the XU1 and also the E49 Australian Charger are all in the mid 14 seconds when in fact all those cars can cut a 13 second quarter mile on modern tires. Anyway the factories were under pressure and so the Holden V8 powered XU2 Torana and the new Phase 4 GT were cancelled. You have to remember that the LJ torana weighed only 1000 kg's and had over 200 hp, the Charger had 300hp and was the fastest 6 cylinder in the world at the time and the GTHO was the fastest 4 door car in the world.

Ok so after all that drama Holden brought out the larger new LH Torana which although it had a weak gaerbox and diff still managed to win bathurst. Ford made some revenge after that and had a famous victory at the Bathurst race with a 1st and second place in it's 2 door Falcon coupe (same car as mad max's interceptor). But then is was all over for Ford for many years because Holden introduced the infamous A9X Hatchback Torana, It had a stronger gearbox, strong diff and a strenghtend 308 Holden V8 developed by Repco (who were into open wheel racing at the time) and it owned bathurst, Peter Brock cruised the whole race and then set a lap record on the final lap just for fun, getting the thing up on two wheels through the "dipper". That was the end of the line for the Torana hatchback. It was replaced by the first Commdore. which was a strenghtend "Australianised" version of Opels car. Much in the same way as The Torana began it then evolved more and more. In 1987 or so, Tom Walkinshaw of Formula one fame developed the Walkinshaw commodore which was the first fuel injected version of the Holden V8, it ran twin throttle bodies and a huge racing body kit of the likes that had never been seen on the road before and only came in one colour, Mount Panorama (the bathurst track) Silver (but it's kinda green). Then came the new shape Commodore also an "Australianised" Opel. This VN Commdores star model was the VN Group A SS, a 6 speed manual fuel injected (once again with dual thorttle bodies) Holden V8 with a top speed of 250km/h. It ran 0-100 in 6.5 seconds and a quarter mile in 14.7.

Now we were once again aproaching the speeds of the cars that caused the orginal super car scare. The Holden V8 had not changed much over the years. The biggest changed were the L34 kit that came with the LH torana, it just had strenghtend the block and rods and better heads. Then it was down sized to 304 inches in the early Commdore so it could pass into the 5 liter and under class in international touring car racing. The final version of the Holden V8 was intorduced in the VN Commdore, it continued thorugh the VP, VR, VS and half way through the VT model. Then production was shut down and Holden imported the new LS1 Chev V8. By now we in the late 90's entering the modern Holden times since the VT Commodore we have had the VX, VY and the new VZ. With the VZ was introduced the latest Chev V8 and Holdens new 6 cylinder "Alloytech" motor that is the new 6 cylinder motor for all general motors cars, including Saab. Holden have also not long ago played with the idea of re introducing the Torana with a turbo charged version of this motor, they even built one ugly concept car along these lines (twin turbo) (the have also played with a concept of a new Torana hatchback a couple of years ago). The current Monaro also started as a concept car and the public demanded Holden to build it. That's how that came about. Then the boss of Pontiac demanded he sell Monaros as the new GTO, GM also loves the Commodore ute and I guess you will see a new El Camino over in the states one of these days : ). The ute racing you see on cable, well they are all stock V8 utes the same as farmers and tradesmen in Australia use for work cars.

I guess another car worth mentioning is the VL Commodre 6 cylinder because by the early 80's the RED motor had become the BLUE motor in the VC Commodore (same but stronger rods from a crapy engine called the "starfire" which was a RED 6 with two cylinders choped off and stronger rods:), the new BLUE motor also had a 12 port head instead of 9 ports). It then became the BLACK motor in the VK Commdore which was just a fuel injected version of the BLUE one. But for in 1986 Australia finally swaped to unleaded fuel and Holden decided to retire the old beast and get a new engine.

So for the VL Commdore (last of the original shape) They used the same Nissan straight 6 that the Skylines run except in 3 liter size. It also came with a Turbo option and that is still one of the hot street cars of today.

Well you can google information about any of those cars I've talked about or I can go and take some pictures of some. The older cars are pretty rare now so it's hard to get picture of them but most of the Commdores are still around. (I actually saw one of the 500 Walkinshaw Commdores that were built down the street two days ago)
 
Here are some few links : )

XU1 owners club, they have some nice pictures of here of orginal cars, you can get an idea of all the crazy Colours these cars came in. My brothers girlfriend once had the Orange one and another friend had a one in Strike me Pink

http://www.gtrxu1club.com.au/default.html

Monaros, old and new

http://www.monaroclubvic.asn.au/
http://www.monaroclubsa.asn.au/

Valiant Chargers, if you spend some time looking in here, you will see the famous E49

http://www.chargerclubofwa.asn.au/

HSV Owners club
http://www.hsvowners.com.au/

The first car in the line in the picture below is a VL Walkinshaw
http://www.hsvowners.com.au/P9040001.JPG
 
There are a lot of tuning companies in Aussie with XR6 Turbos pumping out 1000hp+. If GT4s Typhoons can hit 800hp+ I can't wait to park one in my garage.
 
If I could, maybe I can make things better. Perhaps we can build our own V8 Supercars. If the Patriots losing in Miami to the Dolphins last night wasn't shocking enough, I'm actually shocked to see more Australian cars. You know me. I normally like to have an international focus on racing. I know that Australia kind of has its own style of auto racing. As much as I'd love to see Australia compete on the world stage and maybe upset American, European, and even Japanese race teams, we all may be one step closer thanks to PD including Holden and more Fords. So you know what this means? It means that we're getting Australia's biggest rivals- Holden vs. Ford Australia! And I wouldn't be surprised to maybe see an Australian race series. Only thing it would need now is some great Australian venues, and I know that you're thinking- Mount Panorama. Bathurst. And to me, if you can't have Bathurst for Australian racing, at least have Adelaide or Surfer's Paradise (and especially Surfer's Paradise. Wonderful track). Either that, or make a fantasy street course in Sydney. Or maybe a MUCH BETTER race course in Canberra. The one with all the very tight corners is a nightmare. I even remembered watching "Motorsport Mundial" here on Speed Channel with the Aussie V8s there. All Hell broke loose.

Anyhow, it looks like the GT gamers will get Australian cars whether they like them or not. And if the JOSS Supercar was even CONSIDERED, I'd surely like to modify one to take on the competition. By the way, Utes would be cool too, but I don't think we're getting any, even if Chevy's El Camino and Ford's Ranchero were even considered for the game.
 
Lambo88
I might not be an Aussie guy, but yes I am expecting their cars a lot. They simply look as bad as hell and haul more than ass. I wish we had some of these beasts here in Canada, I'd seriously like to buy one. I don't know if America is still THE muscle car land.


See ya :sly:

yes America is still THE muscle car land, Ford and Daimler/Chrysler vehicles have been kicking a lot of ass in the last 6 years.
And to stay on topic, I would like to see a TS50 and hopefully they kept the Falcon. Wouldn't mind a Mondeo, either. Also would like to see more Mustangs, and a DeTomaso Pantera would be hella sweet. Excited about the GT, and can't wait for the:
Nissan R89C
Mazda 88C & 787B
Shelby Series, even though its a crap-tastic car
Fina McLaren F1
Shelby Mustangs
and of course, the Lotus Europa
 
JohnBM01
By the way, Utes would be cool too, but I don't think we're getting any, even if Chevy's El Camino and Ford's Ranchero were even considered for the game.

No Utes in GT4 but you will get real Holden utes in the states sooner or later I'm sure, it's so much better than the big heavy sports trucks that are popular in the states right now. We also have a free trade agreement now so Holden cars will just get cheaper and cheaper to buy in the states as the years go by and the agreement comes into full force, one day GM wont be able to resist anymore.

A couple of American sites about the Holden ute

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177396
http://trucktrend.com/roadtests/pickup/163_0310_ute/
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/54718/

John, the supercar series will be in racing in China next year 10-12 June 2005 on the new F1 track, that should bring something new to the sport, team China maybe : )?, The rules state that the car must have 4 doors and be based (the body) on an Australian car, I guess they could allways change that to just a 4 door sedan if it ever went fully international. To me it's a better format than Nascar just because I like circuit racing better than ovals and Nascar don't go around corners quite as well as the Supercars :) even thought they don't handle the Nascars are only a few seconds slower around Bathurst due to the bigger more powerful engines they run and wider tires, but the Supercars are fuel injected so they sound a little more racey :). For sure Bathurst would be nice in some future GT*, It's kinda like a mini Nurburgring : ) but with steeper hills, I walked around the track one Winter when no one was around because I had watched the race on tv all my life but never been to a race, anyway I decided to do my spiritual thing with the track and walk around it by myself. I sat down on pole position for a while then walked around the whole circuit, it is insane steep in real life and walking over the Skyline section is scary at walking speed just imagining how it must be to come hooking through there, the corner is totaly blind over and behind a hill, all you can see is blue sky
 
HSV is directly part of Holden. Hence Holden Special Vehicles. It's the performance part of Holden.
HSV is owned by Tom Walkinshaw. When Tom Walkinshaw Racing (TWR) went under a few years ago, HSV was spared because even though it is owned by Walkinshaw, it was seperate from the TWR empire. Therefore HSV are not quite directly part of Holden, it is more like a marriage of convenience. The Holden Racing Team (HRT) was part of the TWR empire so when that went under Holden bought HRT off the people who took over the TWR affairs but it is not legal for a manufacturer to own a team in V8 Supercars so they had to find a buyer (Mark Skaife). Tom Walkinshaw has taken a manegement role in Holden Motorsport (who supplies data, equipment and personel to Holden supported V8 Supercar teams, including HRT) because he believes the below average performance of HRT this year has affected the sales of HIS HSV.
Anyways after the XU1 Toranas and the XY GTHO phase 3 were released a jouranlist called hmm I can't remember at the moment, well he wrote an article about how the new Australian "Super cars" were too dangerous and it was costing alot if peoples lives because they were undrivable in bad conditions. There was some truth to his story because back in the day and Falcon GTHO could smoke the tires through every gear in the gearbox no problem, but you have to remember road tires in 1970 were not anything like the sticky tires we have today. This is also why the origianl quarter mile times of the GTHO and the XU1 and also the E49 Australian Charger are all in the mid 14 seconds when in fact all those cars can cut a 13 second quarter mile on modern tires. Anyway the factories were under pressure and so the Holden V8 powered XU2 Torana and the new Phase 4 GT were cancelled.
The journalist who wrote the Supercar Scare article in 1972 was Evan Green. The article appeared on 25th June 1972 and by the 1st of July, Chrysler, Holden and Ford had shelved their plans for these "Supercars". Evan Green later got a job with Holden in marketing.
The reason these manufacturers were going to build these cars was because they needed to build a certain number of cars (200) for that model to be eligible for the Bathurst 500, a race which was contested with standard production cars.
After the cars were canned, car enthusiasts began modifying tgheir standard cars. Eg, putting big hp engines into cars as the manufacturer had intended but not upgrading the brakes and suspension as the manufacturer would have. This no doubt led to more accidents on roads.
No Utes in GT4 but you will get real Holden utes in the states sooner or later I'm sure, it's so much better than the big heavy sports trucks that are popular in the states right now.
When the boss of GMC was in Australia a few years ago when the idea of taking the Monaro to the USA first came up, he was also thinking of taking the Commodore ute to the States and calling it an El-Camino. That idea fell through but now with a free trade agreement, you never know...
As far as I can remember my history, Holden used to make sheet metal bodies for horse drawn buggies and then later moved to making cars
Holden has been around since the mid 50's. They used to be a blacksmiths shop. When companies like Chev, Buick and Ford started bringing cars to Australia, it was cheaper to only bring the chassis and running gear and get an Australian company to build the bodies. Companies like Holden were building these bodies. Holden has even build bodies for some of the early Fords! Chev then decided to buy Holden and Holden exclusivley built bodies for Chev. Chev then decided Holden were ready to build their own cars and in 1948 the 48-215 (more commonly reffered to as the FX) was introduced.
Nice job with the history there nicefrog.
 
G'day..

'Bout time there was some international respect paid to our awesome no nonsense balls to the wall muscle cars here in Aus. Hang on, are our cars actually deemed muscle cars by US standards? Cause the problem is they can actually handle...
 
Our cars are muscle cars. But I noticed during the 80s and 90s they started to go "behind" the other car companys and Holden cars became less powerful muscle cars.
 
HEY POLYPHONY!! 1000 slightly different skyline/lancer etc variations may be terrific for rice boys, but that kind of hardcore Japan centric car list is not doing the real potential of gran turismo justice - surely each model should be included bearing in mind the car's real world significance and differentiation - a real solid reason to be included. Some of the excessive love affairs polyphony seems to have for certain rice burners seems dissproportionate to the REAL level of interest internationally, and over all the regions the games are sold in. I was really yelling blue murder at them in GT3 when there were many un-exciting handling lancers etc, even loads of rubbish tokyo buzz boxes (micras etc) when ALL I needed to abate my murdurous rampage through the streets was a holden to race against the (worst falcon ever - bad choice as the one aussie car) AU Falcon. I just think polyphony REALLY needs to stop being so damn flippant, so arrogant, in the way they decide upon non-japanese cars. Its shows a great disrespect for all the countries that the game sells really well in. I just reckon polyphony needs to stop wanking over its own country's product quite so much and give us at least the obvious cars that will make most of us happy. HSV!!! Why have FPV and NOT HSV? there is no point because aussies will want to race FPVs against holden's performance cars. Yes I know the holdens will smoke the fords anyway, but they aren't supposed to be directly competing in the market. SS commodores competes with XR8. FPV should compete with HSV!!! Its like including a WRX and then just seemingly arbitrarily ommiting an EVO Lancer. ANyways this was way longer than i thought. sorry peoples.
 
I'd rather have 100 Mitsubishi Evolutions or Nissan Skylines than 100 Holdens or Fords. Seriously.

And it's not probably PD's fault anyway, I bet Toyota, Nissan etc. pay PD to include as many as possible cars in the game. Blame Ford/Holden for lack of cars, not PD.
 
[I'd rather have 100 Mitsubishi Evolutions or Nissan Skylines than 100 Holdens or Fords. Seriously]

There aren't 100 different aussie holdens/fords worth putting in. But its galling to omit the important few. Holden and Ford Australia have been very positive about getting in GT. Their respective CEOs were very chuffed. Its not their fault. I am not saying DON'T include all those Japanese cars, I want them too, the more the merrier, but its simply mis-representative of the international car community and all their important respective makes. In terms of development time:- one more slight variation on an '86 skyline, or one more Aussie car that will satiate all Aussie fans...
 
I just hope I see THAT Holden Commodore SS ( Lumina SS over here ) in GT4

looks like there are 2 rebadge versions of the Monaro..one of them you already know..

-Pontiac GTO ( US )
-Chevrolet Lumina SS coupe ( Middle east)

the only diff between these models is that the one in the Middle east has the Original Holden Gen-III V8..and the one in the US has the LS1 V8 which is slightly more powerful

the lumina SS here seems to be REALLY strong and reliable... and its one of the most affordable V8's over here.. all thnx to Holden :D
 
Actually there are a few different versions of the Monaro. There is the Holden Monaro, the Vauxhall Monaro, the Pontiac GTO, and the Chevrolet Lumina SS.

All four started out with the identical Gen-III 5.7L LS1 V8. The "Gen-III Holden V8" is the LS1.

The differences are that the each version has slightly different electronics and stuff. Add to this that Vauxhall offers a 380hp VXR Monaro and Holden offers numerous HSV Monaros.

All four cars should be sporting LS2s now.
 
Lamp
I'd rather have 100 Mitsubishi Evolutions or Nissan Skylines than 100 Holdens or Fords. Seriously.

And it's not probably PD's fault anyway, I bet Toyota, Nissan etc. pay PD to include as many as possible cars in the game. Blame Ford/Holden for lack of cars, not PD.

The game was made in Japan, by Japanese people, where there are hardly any vehicle manufacturers besides: Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Hyundais, etc. They have so many Jpanaese because of availability of the foriegn fo Japan vehicles. Yeah, I'd love to see a 1969 Boss 429 Ford Mustang, or a Ford XB Falcon, but Polyphony Digital has limited availabilty of those vehicles to make them in the game, you have to consider the Japanese market too. There are a lot of people on that string of islandds to cater too as well, and they would probably turn a goood profit if they just sold GT4 in Japan, so be thankful we are at least getting it, and an official car list has not been released yet, so who knows what is in store?
 
Lamp
I'd rather have 100 Mitsubishi Evolutions or Nissan Skylines than 100 Holdens or Fords. Seriously.

And it's not probably PD's fault anyway, I bet Toyota, Nissan etc. pay PD to include as many as possible cars in the game. Blame Ford/Holden for lack of cars, not PD.
Actually PD would be the ones paying the manufacturers for the rights to use their cars in the game.
 
Polyphony has a big enough budget these days to have access to anything they want. Car makers seem to realise the good exposure their cars get in the GT series (shiny, no damage, look right. All cars are 100% reliable over any race distance hehe...). As far as I can see the issue with car selection is simply one of choice and the desire to make the best possible driving game. Eg. Mercedes invented cars - why not more REALLY important classic models etc. In GT3: no DB7 (voted most beautiful car ever at a recent car designers event), no original VW Beetle in GT3 - very much loved, longest produced model ever etc etc. I feel certain important cars from non-japanes marques have randomly and arbitrarily been omitted from the GT series, at least in the past. Its nice to see things improving in GT4 in terms of historically important cars.
 
The359
Actually there are a few different versions of the Monaro. There is the Holden Monaro, the Vauxhall Monaro, the Pontiac GTO, and the Chevrolet Lumina SS..

The Lumina SS is NOT based off the Monaro, it IS based off of the Holden Commodore .
 
Schrodes
HSV is owned by Tom Walkinshaw. When Tom Walkinshaw Racing (TWR) went under a few years ago, HSV was spared because even though it is owned by Walkinshaw, it was seperate from the TWR empire. Therefore HSV are not quite directly part of Holden, it is more like a marriage of convenience. The Holden Racing Team (HRT) was part of the TWR empire so when that went under Holden bought HRT off the people who took over the TWR affairs but it is not legal for a manufacturer to own a team in V8 Supercars so they had to find a buyer (Mark Skaife). Tom Walkinshaw has taken a manegement role in Holden Motorsport (who supplies data, equipment and personel to Holden supported V8 Supercar teams, including HRT) because he believes the below average performance of HRT this year has affected the sales of HIS HSV.
Well thank you Mr Burstmybubble, for..... Bursting my bubble.

The Nissan R390 GT1 Race car was part of the TWR stables at one stage too. Skaife taking over HRT was a big mistake.

I'd just be happy with a VX and VY Holden/HSV and a AU and BA Falcon, But Monaro's and **** are exellent news.

Lamp - You have your opinions and I respect that. Just don't go saying that the V8 Supercars are V8 Supertaxis. That hurts. Just if you were thinking of saying that :)
 
Ah, thought the DB7 (old James Bond one) was only in GT2. How do you unlock it? Cause I've not seen it mentioned anywhere before. The meaning of my original point being about important cars being absent from GT3 is still apparent I hope.
 
Schrodes, thanks for filling in the gaps in my story, yeah Evan Green, he had a car show on TV in the 80's I reckon I remember one episode he was reviewing a new car, hooning around and rolled it in a quarry then got out and said hmm that wasn't supposed to happen :D (must of had too much power for him:p)

Classic
 
:grumpy:
The359

Holden Commodore
holden_commodore_ss_2002_01_s.jpg


Lumina SS
lumina1.jpg


See a resemblence(SP?)?

Bah! Images wont work... I'll deal with it later. :grumpy:
 
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