Holden and Ford...

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Oh Dear, so many miss-informed and ill guided views in this thread.


1. Holden and Ford are Australian subsidiaries of GM and Ford (US)

2. Gen 111 and IV Motors are made in CANADA, and exported to Australia for the V8 versions of the Commodore, Monaro, Ute, Satesman and their variants.

3. The HPV V6 is a Global Design, made in Australia and is found in Cadillacs (1st export) Commodores, Alfa Romeo (2006) and most other high performance V6 clients within the GM Worldwide Brands / Parts List.

4. The imported V8's from Canada are offset by exported V6's to Europe, Asia and USA


5. The Clutch problem that Motor found has led to Ford using the same Enzo Ferrari clutch but with a new stronger pin due to 1000NM of Torque (a friend of mine is currently destroying them as product tester.)


6. The Monaro, Commodore and FPV vehicles carry 4- 5 passengers over 6' , front and rear seats, not something you could ever do in an F Body, Stang, 3 series or any logical price / hp / person carried formula, it's just the evolution of the Aussie RWD Family car.

7. The Fords are considered a better handling car on road , however when it comes to the track with stock cars the Commodore will return lower lap times, sharp turn in and better pwr/weight

8. The next version of the Commodore/Monaro platform due 2006, will be developed in Australia using the Epsilon structure, and Australia is charged with developing it now that GM USA seems to have folded on an all RWD big car family.

9. The next Pontiac GTO, Vauxhall and Opel iterations of the Monaro will be designed and built in Australia and will be a quantum leap in dynamics

10. Expect to see a separate bodied US vesion only (ie Pontiac Plastic) and a Euro/Aussie version (ala MB, BMW)



👍
 
I think everyone knew that Holden and Ford were not Austrlian owned, the cars are developed here, we just borrow then engines sometimes.
 
Eastley wrote:

"Just to clear a few things up, Holdens are Australian made and owned, and so are Fords.
The Holden Monaro uses a New imported "Generation III" V8 engine from Chevrolet. Holden has always used Chevrolet Engines.

Ford use to use Tickford Engines (Tickford America), the same you'll find in a Aston martin and a Jaguar.

However Ford Australia for the last few years have been building their own engines off the technology (Tickford) they have learnt.

They now have several motors they use, one bing the Barra 128, Boss 260, F6 270 and Boss 290.

So holden don't make there own motors but Ford do.

I am a Holden fan and to be honest I would rather use a imported Chev motor as they are alot more poweful."


Slammer says:

Nothing wrong there eastley, wasn't pointing the finger at you just prior posters and sorry if I covered points you'd already stated :crazy:
 
oh ok. And does anyone know what went wrong with Tickford?

Tickford was replaced by Ford Performance Vehicles (FPV)

For just over a decade, Australian Ford performance vehicles have all been linked by one name recognised by the truly discerning enthusiast: Tickford.
In 1989, the company re-emerged from Aston Martin as an automotive engineering company and in 1991 won a world-wide tender to partner Ford Australia in the production of high-performance vehicles.

The first major engineering task set for Tickford was to produce the EBII XR6.
With input from the company's UK engineers, the 4-litre inline six was boosted to a healthy 161 kilowatts giving it V8-like performance and a bang-for-buck unequalled at the time.

With the success of XR6, Ford entrusted Tickford with an even greater challenge: to revive the GT nameplate.

The resulting limited edition EBII GT was launched to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the original and Tickford lifted the 5-litre V8's power output to an impressive 200 kilowatts.

In 1993, the Tickford passion for performance expressed itself in the still highly regarded XR8 Sprint, featuring what would become the signature XR front-end with four round headlights.

With both the XR6 and XR8, Ford (in partnership with Tickford) suddenly had a runaway success on its hands.

To this day, they are two of the most desirable sports sedans in Australia.
With the help of Ford race-ace John Bowe, Tickford released 1997's show-stopper: the 30th Anniversary EL GT which was instantly dubbed 'Darth Vader', such was its aggressive styling.

But it was in the T-Series that Tickford best expressed its aim to create cars with truly outstanding driving dynamics and a commitment to Total Performance.
The T-Series vehicles raised expectations of performance, sophistication and driving enjoyment another notch while delivering some of the fastest Fords ever built in this country.

It is significant that even though the Tickford name will now no longer be seen, its spirit and engineering expertise will carry on unabated at Glenbarry Road in the form of Ford Performance Vehicles.

The same people who have been widely acclaimed over the past 11 years continue their craftsmanship and dedication to performance with the added assistance of the awe-inspiring technological resources available from Prodrive - as well as the total commitment of Ford Australia.


So the FORDS in GT4 are not Australian like people think they are, there made here but didn't originate here as some people think. I think Tickford started in Europe to.
 
Tickford was sold (written off) during a moment of Ford's cost cutting Madness.

The problem was that PAG (Prestige Auto Group, to which Tickford and Cosworth belonged to provide engineering skills to Jaguar and Aston, along with Ford US, UK and Aus) went belly up in the eyes of Ford's execution of Jac Nasser and his empire.

From Tickford rose the phoenix of FPV, and I reckon FPV is really putting it up HSV as a Franchise for the first time thanks to Marcus Ambrose and Stone Bros unlike Tickford who got hammered by Skaife and HSV..good to see
 
It's great to see thew age old "Ford vs Holden" battle flaring up again. I don't know that much about the specs of these cars so I won't interfere.
Does anyone reckon that PD should have included the early 70s Falcon? I used to own that car back in New Zealand and it was always a sweet drive. The only problem was that those bastards took LPG of the market so it cost twice as much to run an already expensice car, Still, great car.
 
DeepPurple
It's great to see thew age old "Ford vs Holden" battle flaring up again. I don't know that much about the specs of these cars so I won't interfere.
Does anyone reckon that PD should have included the early 70s Falcon? I used to own that car back in New Zealand and it was always a sweet drive. The only problem was that those bastards took LPG of the market so it cost twice as much to run an already expensice car, Still, great car.
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I think we needed 4 more aussie cars: GTHO, GTHO Phase 3 from Ford and the Torana SLR5000 and Monaro SS from holden
 
The Porko
Ford actually use a different power convert system to what holden use. Ford use DIN... i forgot what holden uses. But the GT is 290kw and the HSV is 305kw using the same system as Ford.
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So many people jsut love to mention this, cept nobody realises when MOTOR magazine dyno tested both the falcon GT & the GTS the GT got 225kw at the rear wheels & the GTS got 220kw. Thats where power really matters, not in useless calculations.
 
[FPV]Rusty
So many people jsut love to mention this, cept nobody realises when MOTOR magazine dyno tested both the falcon GT & the GTS the GT got 225kw at the rear wheels & the GTS got 220kw. Thats where power really matters, not in useless calculations.
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To bat the GTS still kills it from a standing start and round Caulder (Sp?)
 
I reckon they should include the classic battles from Bathurst, dating back to the great FJ vs Jaguar, EH vs Mini and Lotus Cortina, 289 Falc vs 327 69 Munro, Phase 11 vs GTR-XU1 XB Coupe vs A9X, L34 vs XC, VC vs EA DJR, plus minis, suzuki swifts, celicas alfas XJS, Skyline R30's, R32's M3's Sierras and all the other manufacturers that made the Armstrong / Hardie Ferodo / Tooheys 500mile / 1000km famous, and the 12 hr and 24 hrs races so much fun 👍
 
I may have already mentioned this but I really would of thought PD would have at least added the Opel's and Vauxhalls to the Holden section just re-badged just to pad out the Australian section. The same can be said for the Ford's ie. the Focus, KA since they wouldn't even need a rebadge. I just find it annoying that to get a Holden Barina you need to buy the Opel Corsa or Vauxhall.

Anyway I took a stock VY SS Commodore and took it around the Ring and man was I surprised with how well it handled the track.
 
The aussie cars in GT4 are harder to get sideways then their real counterparts :(

I heard that the Typhoon should be back on the market very soon. They've completely changed the clutch around.

Well, you wouldn't want to be driving any of the holdens around in GT4, and the power transmission fluid bursts open :)

The GTHO Phase 3 was the fastest sedan in the world during it's time. Definitely GT4 worthy.

I know the Gen III engines are American designed (and used in the corvettes) but I thought that the Aussie used ones are assembled in Melbourne.
 
my left yarble....

You must turn off all driver controls in GT4 before you'll get any realistic handling characteristics...and yes the Munro/Falcs do not have ASM etc just a low grade TC easily turned off, so try em without driver aids, as bothe the Falc and Commode do quite well driven on the throttle :)
 
gt3freak_2001
I may have already mentioned this but I really would of thought PD would have at least added the Opel's and Vauxhalls to the Holden section just re-badged just to pad out the Australian section. The same can be said for the Ford's ie. the Focus, KA since they wouldn't even need a rebadge. I just find it annoying that to get a Holden Barina you need to buy the Opel Corsa or Vauxhall.

Anyway I took a stock VY SS Commodore and took it around the Ring and man was I surprised with how well it handled the track.
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yes it would have been nice to have an Astra and Vectra with a lion badge on them :) maybe even that Holden Cruz abomination, based on a suzuki I think? It should qualify fo the lightweight car cup.

The local fords (focus etc) have very little to differentiate them from the Euro versions, they all have the same blue oval on them. maybe have the old Ford Lazer (mazda 323 with dfferent styling)?

a shame they didn't have the V8 supercar versions of the BA & VY, like the AU Ford XR8 race car. They already have the car models in the GT & SS, all they needed was spiolers & paint jobs. I gues this was one of those licensing things :(

I hope they have the VY/Z ute in the next game and allow it to compete with the pick-up trucks. maybe even the El Camino concept ute as a prize?

Lastly I am disappointed there was no Australia specific races - I'd love to have seen Holden SS vs Monaro and Ford T6 vs V8 races.
 
Brock5000
I hope they have the VY/Z ute in the next game and allow it to compete with the pick-up trucks. maybe even the El Camino concept ute as a prize?

Lastly I am disappointed there was no Australia specific races - I'd love to have seen Holden SS vs Monaro and Ford T6 vs V8 races.
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hehe, the SS ute (and the pursiut/xr8 ute) would smoke all those big US pickups.

lack of aus specific races was a real dissapointment for me, hope Aus get get more of a share in the the whole gameing experience, not just some cars.

My Left Yarble
The GTHO Phase 3 was the fastest sedan in the world during it's time. Definitely GT4 worthy.
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Definately. World class. Any races limiting cars to anything up to 1970 the phaseIII GTHO would absolutely obliterate em.
 
gt3freak_2001
Anyway I took a stock VY SS Commodore and took it around the Ring and man was I surprised with how well it handled the track.
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I was really suprised too! I thought the COmmodore would have alot of understeer! Its a great track car, unlike the Monaro
 
slammer
I reckon they should include the classic battles from Bathurst, dating back to the great FJ vs Jaguar, EH vs Mini and Lotus Cortina, 289 Falc vs 327 69 Munro, Phase 11 vs GTR-XU1 XB Coupe vs A9X, L34 vs XC, VC vs EA DJR, plus minis, suzuki swifts, celicas alfas XJS, Skyline R30's, R32's M3's Sierras and all the other manufacturers that made the Armstrong / Hardie Ferodo / Tooheys 500mile / 1000km famous, and the 12 hr and 24 hrs races so much fun 👍
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Don't forget the E49 Charger!
 
Brock5000
Lastly I am disappointed there was no Australia specific races - I'd love to have seen Holden SS vs Monaro and Ford T6 vs V8 races.
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yeah i reckon....they could of had a V8 Supercar Race Event maybe? its so crap that PD has put in events dedicated to the ****box daihatsu Midget instead of a Holden V Ford race, which would have been lots more fun and forced people to buy Aussie cars to 100% complete GT4.
 
yeah a shame you couldn't buy a ****box Holden cruz or barina to compete in those races! Ah well I'm sure we'll be able to race them against V8 supercars on bathurst & adelaide in GT5 ;)

Radicool02
I was really suprised too! I thought the COmmodore would have alot of understeer! Its a great track car, unlike the Monaro
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What surprised me most about the holdens was how good the brakes are. Stock in GT4 with N2/3 tyres they pull up with plenty of room to spare, they sure as hell don't pull up that good in real life.
 
Wkeil said:

"Monaro CV8 is the same exact car as th new Pontiac GTO."

Almost, IRL the 2005 GTO now gets the 6Liter 297Kw (400hp) Gen IV, while the domestic Aus CV8 still runs the Gen111 260Kw (350 hp), in GT4 the specs are the same 2004 GTO vs 2004 CV8, no surprise really as they roll of the same production line :-)
 
wkeil
Monaro CV8 is the same exact car as th new Pontiac GTO.
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not exactly true, The HSV GTO (based on the Monaro) is the same as the Pontiac GTO, have you noticed in GT4 the different engine sounds between the CV8 and the Pontiac GTO?

The CV8 doesnt come with a spoiler either, the GTO does however. They do look similar, but they are not the same

slammer
Almost, IRL the 2005 GTO now gets the 6Liter 297Kw (400hp) Gen IV, while the domestic Aus CV8 still runs the Gen111 260Kw (350 hp), in GT4 the specs are the same 2004 GTO vs 2004 CV8, no surprise really as they roll of the same production line :-)
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👍 👍 👍 👍 exactly
 
exhorst
not exactly true, The HSV GTO (based on the Monaro) is the same as the Pontiac GTO, have you noticed in GT4 the different engine sounds between the CV8 and the Pontiac GTO?

The CV8 doesnt come with a spoiler either, the GTO does however. They do look similar, but they are not the same
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Not exactly true, the GTO in game is the 04 GTO which still used a LS1 like the current Monaro but with a different exhaust and small other bits.

05 GTO is LS2 like the 05 HSV GTO.
 
I thought it was funny the whole deal with the 297kw. I read that the car's actually 298kw, but the advertising guys said it sounds better ending in a 7
 
My Left Yarble
I thought it was funny the whole deal with the 297kw. I read that the car's actually 298kw, but the advertising guys said it sounds better ending in a 7
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I think it sounds better as 397 :sly:.
 

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