Holy fudgecakes! 7:22 has been achieved on the 'Ring by none other than...

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Danoff
It's funny, the discussion of the original lap focuses so much on the 2 missed gear changes and rev-limiter action, and people wonder why I don't like the old-fashioned antiquated gearboxes.

Paddle shifters FTW.
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Strictly from a performance standpoint, dual-clutch and sequential transmissions are definitely the way to go. I still love the feel of an old-school, 3 pedal, H-pattern though. And automatics just suck, in my opinion.
 
Will you just look at this stunning machine!


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Sexy, evil, devlish, badass, gorgeous, looks like it's going to kill you. What a stellar beast.
 
^ yup the ACR-X ran a 7:03.xx

and the *NEW* production car record is held by the 2010 Viper ACR again with a time of 7:12.13, thanks to Tomball Dodge for bringing two (2) bone stock straight from the dealer lots. Yes they are 2010 models that are still unsold!!!

There is also a video floating around of an orange LFA 'ring edition doing laps at the ring as well while the ACR was there breaking its record!
 
Oh, I agree. The Viper has gone down in automotive history as the perfect synthesis of american muscle and supercar performance ( perhaps, side by side with the Ford GT, though ).

I just hope Fiat doesn't screw it up. Let's pray it'll be more Chrysler than Fiat/Ferrari.
 
jergto
^ yup the ACR-X ran a 7:03.xx

and the *NEW* production car record is held by the 2010 Viper ACR again with a time of 7:12.13, thanks to Tomball Dodge for bringing two (2) bone stock straight from the dealer lots. Yes they are 2010 models that are still unsold!!!

There is also a video floating around of an orange LFA 'ring edition doing laps at the ring as well while the ACR was there breaking its record!
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How is it a production car record? Did I miss the part where they disqualified Radicals from actually holding any sort of record on the ring?

I'd accept that it is a "street-legal-tin-top-production-vehicle-with-airconditioning-and-radio" record, but not a "production car record".
 
niky
I'd accept that it is a "street-legal-tin-top-production-vehicle-with-airconditioning-and-radio" record, but not a "production car record".
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I do believe you're in a minority thinking the radical counts. Yeah, I realize it's a production car. But there's a lot of people out there who simply don't care, considering the only way any car out there is going to beat that time is if it is designed specifically to beat that time.

EDIT: I just checked their lineup at Radical's website. They all come standard with slick race tires which aren't street legal in Germany.
 
What's this? A discussion about the validity of the Radical's production car-ness?

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Nurburgring record or bust, yo. Don't act like this isn't serious business.
 
I don't know why The Ring doesn't sell its own spec tires to all the manufacturers trying to break records. They could make a fortune.
 
So that's the Nurburgring "Official Spec Tire Production Record?" They could probably solve the Nurb Debt crisis in one blow that way.

Keef
I do believe you're in a minority thinking the radical counts. Yeah, I realize it's a production car. But there's a lot of people out there who simply don't care, considering the only way any car out there is going to beat that time is if it is designed specifically to beat that time.

EDIT: I just checked their lineup at Radical's website. They all come standard with slick race tires which aren't street legal in Germany.
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A minority which includes some manufacturers, as Lexus quickly corrected the notion that it was a "production car record" when they announced ring times for the LFA Nurb Edition.

A production car is a production car... whatever that means. And any reasoning you use to exclude the Radical would exclude the Viper ACR (which, with the front splitter installed, doesn't pass the "sleeping policeman" test, either).

Public opinion doesn't make something true. Thankfully. As most people still think we're either descended from chimpanzees or molded out of clay. :D (Read into that what you will... doesn't make either true)

Perhaps they could clarify the record the way they do it at Bonneville... which has so many specific limited subclasses for speed records it's scary.
 
niky
A production car is a production car... whatever that means. And any reasoning you use to exclude the Radical would exclude the Viper ACR (which, with the front splitter installed, doesn't pass the "sleeping policeman" test, either).
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Slick tires aren't street legal, therefore not a production car. And, despite having read about this splitter issue, I know not of this obscure law which makes the splitter illegal. As long as your main headlights aren't yellow and your plate is somewhere on the front, there isn't much that isn't legal in Ohio.
 
Isn't the Gumpert Apollo's time still faster than the Viper ACR's anyway? So if you excluded the Radicals it still wouldn't have the record
 
Keef
Slick tires aren't street legal, therefore not a production car. And, despite having read about this splitter issue, I know not of this obscure law which makes the splitter illegal. As long as your main headlights aren't yellow and your plate is somewhere on the front, there isn't much that isn't legal in Ohio.
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If you can drive them on the road, they aren't slicks. And the Radical time was set with a car driven to the Ring on the tires used.

Besides, invalid. The MotorTrend "Best Driver's Car" test had a Corvette on R-Comps. Which are street-legal and a factory option.

The splitter is illegal to use on the road in some states. You have to take it off to drive on the road, as pointed out when the ACR first came out.

And if we're going for "whatever-is-legal-somewhere-counts", then all bets are off...
 
Keef
I do believe you're in a minority thinking the radical counts. Yeah, I realize it's a production car. But there's a lot of people out there who simply don't care, considering the only way any car out there is going to beat that time is if it is designed specifically to beat that time.

EDIT: I just checked their lineup at Radical's website. They all come standard with slick race tires which aren't street legal in Germany.
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You are aware that the Radical that set the record was fitted with road-legal tyres (which are on option on any road legal Radical) and then driven to the track and back on the same tyres.

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/61467/radical_sr8_smashes_nrburgring_lap_record.html

http://www.radicalsportscars.com/uk...l Nordschleife Lap Records&passive=1&r=9&t=60


The car was legal to be driven on German roads and did the run on the same tyres used to get the car to the 'ring (and back), its a production car (road cars while a small part of Radical's range have been a feature on their price list for around a decade) and for my money counts.

The argument is not how practical it is, how well it can manage speed bumps, etc (and plenty of 'road-cars' have issues with these things). More so does it meet two basic requirements, can you go and buy one as a standard production model (yes) and would it be legal to drive in Germany (yes).


Scaff
 
I am in no way dissing the ACR-X, but is it really the fastest car around the Ring outside of current timed runs?

I cannot help but think that with real racing drivers (not magazine journalists who have done a few races) the Dodge would be annihilated. Take the Gumpert Apollo S for instance, it did 7:11 with a journalist behind the wheel. The bloke ran two races in the mid 2000's (2005 or 2006) but that doesn't make him a racing driver, he is still a journalist.

What time would that Gumpert Apollo S achieve with a Jason Plato achieve? Or how about the Enzo with Nigel Mansell today? Those cars would probably annihilate the ACR-X with even Jenson Button behind the wheel.

(I picked Button because he is the in form driver at the moment).
 
Good point above.

Simply so many cars has not been seriously ran on the Ring, Carrera GT, GT2 RS, Apollo, Edonis, TVR Speed 12, Caparo T1 etc.... so so so so many potential candidates. If Forza's PI are anything to go by the list of cars that can beat this time are actually quite long. That fact is just that not everyone is bothered to do it.

p.s. And yes I think the Radical is Legit, and honestly nothing in a conventional coupe skin is going to touch it.
 
I'm more impressed with cars that have fast lap times at the Nurb without sacrificing any civility or creature comforts.

The ACR-X, though it is way too awesome, is far too hardcore for the road.
 
Dan_
Oh, I agree. The Viper has gone down in automotive history as the perfect synthesis of american muscle and supercar performance ( perhaps, side by side with the Ford GT, though ).

I just hope Fiat doesn't screw it up. Let's pray it'll be more Chrysler than Fiat/Ferrari.
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While I agree with everything and wouldn't mind owning a Viper one gripe I've never been able to get over is the sound. It is definetly unique and distinct but... eek I dunno i've heard better V10s.
 
Screw Radicals, I'd rather have that crazy thing that Autocar tested recently.
 
sumbrownkid
I'm more impressed with cars that have fast lap times at the Nurb without sacrificing any civility or creature comforts.
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Or, in James May's opinion, none of them. Maybe if the back straight were strewn with speed bumps, we'd see Ring-fettled super sportscars that actually could go over rumble strips without rattling your teeth out...
 
I've never driven any modern sports cars so I can't weigh in on ride quality. All I know is they ride better than my car.
 
sumbrownkid
I'm more impressed with cars that have fast lap times at the Nurb without sacrificing any civility or creature comforts.

The ACR-X, though it is way too awesome, is far too hardcore for the road.
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When the baseline for comparison is a "cook-eggs-on-the-door-sills" Viper, I'm not sure if that is much of a thing to worry about.
 
ProjectVRD
I am in no way dissing the ACR-X, but is it really the fastest car around the Ring outside of current timed runs?

I cannot help but think that with real racing drivers (not magazine journalists who have done a few races) the Dodge would be annihilated. Take the Gumpert Apollo S for instance, it did 7:11 with a journalist behind the wheel. The bloke ran two races in the mid 2000's (2005 or 2006) but that doesn't make him a racing driver, he is still a journalist.

What time would that Gumpert Apollo S achieve with a Jason Plato achieve? Or how about the Enzo with Nigel Mansell today? Those cars would probably annihilate the ACR-X with even Jenson Button behind the wheel.

(I picked Button because he is the in form driver at the moment).
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I'm pretty sure that the Enzo's current time was with a race driver at the wheel, it couldn't beat the original ACR. Gumpert is probably in a league of its own behind the Radicals, yeah. But one thing to remember about the Viper is that it'\s time at the ring can be measured in days, unlike the GT-R, ZR1, and a few other cars which were run around the track repeatedly.

In both cases with Dodge, they just seemed to show up, wait until they got a time they liked, and left. This attempt was a bit more serious than the first though.
 
Toronado
When the baseline for comparison is a "cook-eggs-on-the-door-sills" Viper, I'm not sure if that is much of a thing to worry about.
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Just in case there were any non-believers.
 
Keef
020603115310.jpg


Just in case there were any non-believers.
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:eek: Seriously? Here I am thinking only cars like Cobras with exposed side exhaust were dangerous.
 
I'm certain you could stage such a photo. Vid or it didn't happen.
 
Jim Prower
I'm certain you could stage such a photo. Vid or it didn't happen.
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Several magazines corroborated the assessment that the door sill got "well over first degree burns" hot, though only Car and Driver actually used the door sills as a range.
 
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Keef
020603115310.jpg


Just in case there were any non-believers.
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You do know that is the '92-'95 RT/10 right?

The have fixed that problem on the GEN III/IV, although it does still get hot, just not as hot as that picture which is of an rt/10 built in the early 90's.
It's also a fake, they cooked the eggs on a pan and moved it, because to get the sides crispy brown like in the picture you need a lot of cooking oil. It would've just spilled on the side if you put same amount of cooking oil on that door sill.
 
jergto
You do know that is the '92-'95 RT/10 right
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No it isn't. I remember that picture well. That is from one of the early tests of the SRT-10 convertible.
 
That's a handy feature Dodge should have promoted.

No breakfast restaurant in the area?

Start cooking in your Viper!
 
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