Honda to quit F1? - Now with added Brawn GP

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by darkfinal, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Now you've done it! You've gone and jinxed their reliability!
     
  2. Antti-san

    Antti-san

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    :lol: What have I done! :guilty:
     
  3. Ardius

    Ardius

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    The livery is fine as it is, it looks good and its a simple, easily recognisable design.
    Have a livery change for next year, but this year its not needed and it looks to me like Branson is being edged out of a deal now, seeing as we're seeing less Virgin sponsorship on the car now.
     
  4. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Actually, the TERMINATOR SALVATION decals are a one-time-only affair. Come Monaco, it will be back t Virgin or Virgin Galactic.
     
  5. zed300

    zed300

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    I noticed MIG on the cars .....What or whom is that?
     
  6. Blake

    Blake Premium

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    Not quite. :lol:

    I can’t remember the exact figure, but I recall the drag created by uneven paint was worth something 0.005s per lap.
     
  7. Ardius

    Ardius

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    What stopped them from putting the Terminator sponsorship on a different part of the car?
    Virgin are not the only ones offering money you know and I heard the Branson had already made a long-term offer recently but the team haven't accepted it yet because they are waiting to see if they get anything better.

    Branson will be looking to get the best deal, so I doubt his initial offerings will be adequate in the teams eyes.

    http://www.brawngp.com/partners.asp
    ;)
     
  8. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I guess Sony Pictures International requested it and paid enough to supersede the Virgin logos.

    Branson's wording in the statment suggested they had made the offer and were waiting to hear back. He's apparently cautious, and has said that if someone out-bids them, Virgin probably won't make a new offer. But there's been no word on who those other people may be. Or even if there are others. There is an anoucement expected sme time this weekend; I was surprised they hadn't made it yet, but it may be that they are waiting until after the race for some reason.

    Depends on how much he offered. Branson's a smart businessman, so he probably knows the value of those wins, pole positions, fastest laps and podiums and would take them in account when making his offer.
     
  9. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Brawn's future is now safe for three years. They've managed to attract some big sponsors for 2010, which seems to confirm the idea that several companies have been waiting in the wings, unwilling to sign anything because of the political situation. Larry Page from Google was openly sighted in the Brawn garages in Monaco despite being a guest of McLaren (and rumoured to be wanting to get his company's name on the side of a race-winning car straight away), and Coca-Cola's Muthar Kent was seen in Turkey, though no-one seems to know who he was talking to. Autosport heavily imply that Brawn might scoop up Emirates Air as a sponsor; after all, they used to have their name on the McLarens because Woking got Vodafone on-board, and with rivals Ethiad lending their name to Ferrari, Emirates would be primed to get back in the game. So maybe we'll see Google-Coke-Emirates Brawn GP next season ...
     
  10. Peter

    Peter (Banned)

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    So, who's the title sponsor?
     
  11. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    There's no word. Brawn have decided to keep quiet about it until they unveil the BGP-002, probably out of respect for Virgin. The companies won't cay anything because the contracts begin in 2010 and it will be a bigger deal when the BGP-002 is unveiled with their logos on it (though I expect the sponsors' names will be leaked sooner or later). It's all in the article, if you'd read it.

    But aside from that, one of the reasons a Virgin-Brawn deal supposedly fell through is because Brawn aren't actually looking for a title sponsor. They want to retain their identity as Brawn GP, not Virgin-Brawn, Google-Brawn or Braun-Brawn. It probably means they get less money from the deal, but I should think that would be offset by the fact that they're doing so well. Any major sponsor out there would probably be happy to pay enough money to be title sponsor but settle for being the major sponsor simly because the car, the team and the drivers so damned good. Brawn GP is a marketer's dream, and sponsors will be willing to pay top dolalr for the right to have their name assoiated with it.
     
  12. Peter

    Peter (Banned)

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    Wow, Brawn started out as nothing, and in 1 season that isn't over yet, become F1's most wanted. They are a freak of nature, has any team ever won the championship in their first year?
     
  13. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Yeah, Vanwall in 1958, the first time there was a constructors' championship.

    And Brawn haven't won anything yet. There's still six races and a long way to go just yet.
     
  14. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Pardon the double-post once again, but more news and it's pretty big. A German newspaper is reporting that Mercedes is going to purchase 75% of Brawn GP and put Nico Rosberg behind the wheel for 2010, probably alongside Button (but that last bit is specualtion by me ... I can't see them wanting to give Button up), with input from Aabar, a Dubai consortium that bought just under 10% of Daimler and invested in the Virgin Galactic project (though Virgin won't be invovled here as they're going to Manor). Details are as vague as can be right now, but the suggestion is that Mercedes is going to gradually end its associaion with McLaren and turn Brawn into their works team. The McLaren MP4-12C road car was built entirely without Mercedes' input; even the engine was developed in-house by McLaren. Ties between both parties have been apparently been loosening for years and McLaren are setting production targets for the 12C, which may mean they're looking to become independent once more.

    I'll keep you posted.
     
  15. L_Hamilton

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    That's good news for Rosberg but, this might be the end for Barrichello as you suggested.
     
  16. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    There's only really one source reporting it, Auto Motor und Sport. I don't know how reliable they are, and a lot of what I said in the above - mostly the stuff about the way the relationship between McLaren and Mercedes has suffered - is lifted from Keith Collantine's blog. Normally I'd post the story straight up like the ones I did in the thread on the Renault investigation, but as there's only one source and a lot of speculation, I decided against it. I usually like to have several sources or one that I absolutely trust before I go posting full stories.
     
  17. Peter

    Peter (Banned)

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    Making Brawn the works team is a good call, not needing to put in much assistance for them and still getting good results. Well, no right now, but maybe soon.
     
  18. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Some will say this is rediculous as McLaren have such strong ties already with Mercedes, but it actually makes a lot of sense because McLaren are building their own engines now.
    Also, Mercedes apparently aren't happy with McLaren trying to veto providing engines to Red Bull and other teams (like Brawn).

    Who could have predicted this last year? The strongest partnership in Formula 1....now looking quite weak.
     
  19. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Going by some of the stories - particularly theone over at F1 Fanatic - the relationship may have gradually been wearing down for years. I get the feeling the McLaren-Mercedes relationship is nowhere near as strong as it was during Mika Hakkinen's career. I can't imagine they'd be overly happy wit their implication in the Stepney Affair and that incident in Australia, even if they were only guilty by association.

    I think that Ross Brawn is someone Mercedes would have been itching to work with. He's the best tactician in the field - who else could completely reverse a team's fortunes in just one year? Brawn GP has to rank as one of the greatest sporting comebacks of all time - and someone they would have tried their best to get on their side. They were probably quite pleased with themselves when Brawn elected to run Mercedes engines over Ferrari, especially when the car debuted at the top of the timing sheets. Barrichello's success in Valencia showed the team learns quickly from their mistakes - certainly faster than McLaren have - and they're more than comfortable with letting their drivers race each other, unlike McLaren who seem to be favouring Hamilton more and more. A Brawn-Mercedes factory team could really become a powerhouse; Mercedes sign the cheques, while Ross Brawn does what he does best and runs the team on race wekeends.
     
  20. prisonermonkeys

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    James Allen is reporting that Brawn may be bought and re-branded as Mercedes for 2010. He's also reporting that they've done a deal with France Télécom brand Orange, which wouldn't be too bad at all - the Orange Arrows cars from circa 2002 were dead sexy. An unofficial Brawn GP Twitter account held by Remi Budet (I don't know his relation to the team) claims secondary sponsors will be Becks (formerly with Jaguar) and bwin.

    However, if this is true, it may cause some contention. Mercedes is tied up in McLaren for a while, so it is believed that the plan to acquire Brawn is to have Middle Eastern group Aabar buy into the team and hold it in Daimler-Chrysler's name. Then, when Mercedes and McLaren part ways, they'll just do an internal transfer. The Brawn team would always be run by Mercedes, but it would be Aabar who held it to get around contractual issues with Mercedes. The problem with the sponsorship is that Becks produces alcohol and bwin is an online gambling consortium, and Islamc law explicitly forbids both. It may not sit well with Aabar, though as they're really just keeping the seat warm for Mercedes, they may not have a choice in the matter.
     
  21. brainfade

    brainfade (Banned)

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    No, the Orange Arrows cars were fugly, also the sponsors are not who your suggesting, thats pure outside speculation, Brawn has got sponsors for next year ensuring the 400million budget they need, but the sponsors are none of the above.

    Also, world's worst kept secret = Arabs love whisky and they are infact the biggest importers of it, sounds crazy but its true
     
  22. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    400million? As the going rate on title sponsorship is fifty million these days, I doubt Brawn have signed eight title sponsors. And I never said it was true - only that various sources were reporting it.

    Okay, that's kind of a racist comment there, but I'll let it slide. They might like whiskey, but the point is that Islamic law is pretty strict and the Aabar holdings group might take issue with it.
     
  23. ExigeEvan

    ExigeEvan Premium

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    Also, the cars wouldn't be able to advertise Becks in France and maybe a few other european countries. Alcohol sponorship is slowly going the way of tobacco.
     
  24. brainfade

    brainfade (Banned)

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    People pay ALOT more then that to be a title sponsor these days, also Brawn are being clever in the way they are handling sponsorship.

    It's not racist at all, it's a well known fact, I don't mean to say it in any offensive context but it's actually very true all the rich high-flying arabs are known to love whisky, you forget that Karim Ojeih (if thats how its spelt) is one of the leading stake holders in Mclaren who are sponsored by DIAGEO/Johnny Walker.
     
  25. daan

    daan Moderator

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    If this was Wikipedia, there would be text saying citation needed all over the place.

    Got any proof or did you just make it all up?

    I'll start with this...
    http://business.scotsman.com/8099/Whisky-producers-turn-screw-on.5004126.jp
     
  26. GilesGuthrie

    GilesGuthrie Staff Emeritus

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    Quoting The Scotsman Daan? Eesh, next, you'll be substantiating your posts with citations from Wikipedia and crash.net!

    Brawn have announced that they're financially stable for next year, with a portfolio of sponsors, but have said that they're going to wait until they unveil the car to unveil the sponsors' names. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77990)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
  27. TheCracker

    TheCracker Premium

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    Yep, that sounds about right.
     
  28. brainfade

    brainfade (Banned)

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    How did you do that? :S

    I can't prove what I said as being a fact, but I've seen it for myself
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
  29. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    It's called "research".

    Phillip Morris, who own the Malboro brand, are paying the most in the paddock for title sponsorship: two hundred million, half of what you claim Brawn have.

    There may have been a time when companies could pay exorbriant amounts fo sponsor arrangements, but not in 2009. We might have made it through the recession, but it's going to take time before we get to the point we were at when the recession began. There is simply no way any company could justify spending hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of sponsorship in the current claimte. Phillip Morris is the exception to the rule.
     
  30. SUPER NUMBBER

    SUPER NUMBBER

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    While I'm sure being associated with Brawn given their impressive success has crossed the collective minds of MB, I don't know if they'd be rash enough to just dive in head first into full ownership without knowing how their momentum is gonna carry over to next year, especially when they already have a deep ingrained relationship with McLaren. The most I can see them doing is buying a small share and a dual sponsorship with the two at the same time (instead of dropping one completely to pick the other as is being suggested). I might see McLaren having an issue with this if MB suddenly cut their ties, but I don't see this happening right now, although McLaren is preparing themselves to eventually be the manufacturer team they've been looking to be.