Honda to quit F1? - Now with added Brawn GP

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I'd like to see Honda become an engine supplier for another racing team. One thats actually somewhat competitive again. I was just watching some replay footage of Senna on Suzuka, in his Honda powered McLaren. Honda has a lot of history in F1, and its a real shame if they quit.
 
Yeah, but their current engines are underpowered. They and Renault are - but Renault got permission from the other teams for free tuning over the winter.
 
But they bear to relation to the performance of today's engines... Fact is, the Honda V8s weren't the most powerful when new, and aren't the most powerful now. The V10s were top stuff, but they are no more...
 
True, not the best V8 out there. Sadly, we won't see a return of V10s for a while because of the current obsession with cost-cutting, though it is necessary. I miss the pre-1998 rules.
 
A V10 (or any other configuration) above 2.2 litres will never ever happen, though, and we all know it - if they consider the current breed of 2.4l 770HP V8s too powerful, anything larger will be considered dangerous.

At the moment, we'll continue with the V8s until 2011 at least, and possibly until 2013 and onwards.
 
I dunno, I prefer the V8s to the V10s myself. V8's are naturally balanced, if the correct V-angle is used (90 degress I believe). V10 are not naturally balanced. I also prefer V8s because of all the V8 that have been in F1 over the years. Awesome power from the V10s though, no doubt. I'm just amazed at the redline of the current engines. That's really pushing the envelope.

Slightly off topic; I'd like to see Toyota bring Group Lotus on board. It would be cool to see a "Lotus" chassis, winning with a Toyota engine. I think their cars would look good in Saffron Yellow:sly:.

I hope the KERS technology makes it to streetcars. That is, only if they can make it affordable, and reliable, for street use.
 
Other way around: It's the V10s that were far more balanced. Neither design is naturally balanced, but 90deg and 72deg engines can be balanced with a split crankshaft. In the V8s, they're restricted to 90degs, and while the design itself is more balanced, the secondary vibrations made things far more complicated than they were in the V10s.
 
Lets not start dreaming, eh? We're still in the Honda thread...

If you want balanced engines, there are lots of letters and numbers: V12, I6, F4/F6/Fx, etc...
 
Metar
Other way around: It's the V10s that were far more balanced. Neither design is naturally balanced, but 90deg and 72deg engines can be balanced with a split crankshaft. In the V8s, they're restricted to 90degs, and while the design itself is more balanced, the secondary vibrations made things far more complicated than they were in the V10s.
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I respectfully disagree. The V10 engine design is NOT an inherently balanced design, whether its a 90 degree or 72 degree V-angle. I understand that the F1 engines required a split crankshaft, and that proves my point.

V8s aren't perfectly balanced, but the only part that makes a 90 degree V8 unbalanced, is the 1st order free moment (Bosch Automotive Handbook, 7th Edition, pg. 475). V10s are far more complicated to balance, and I5 engines are similarly odd.

If you want a naturally balanced piston/cylinder engine design, go with any of the following:

1. Flat 6 (Porsche 911)
2. Inline 6 (E46 BMW M3, '54 Mercedes-Benz 300SL)
3. V-12, 60 degree V-angle
4. I think Flat-12 engines are also naturally balanced, but I'm not 100% sure. (Porsche 917K)

And contrary to popular belief, Flat-4 engines are NOT naturally balanced either! (Free moment of 2nd order)
But the Flat 4 in my '64 Porsche is damn smooth at 100 MPH. :sly:

I would love to see F1 adopt a new Flat 12 engine design. That would be wicked. Displacement around 3 liters sounds about right. I'm looking forward to this coming August, when the Porsche 917s will be out on Laguna Seca. They sound fantastic!
 
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Lofasz
I respectfully disagree. The V10 engine design is NOT an inherently balanced design, whether its a 90 degree or 72 degree V-angle. I understand that the F1 engines required a split crankshaft, and that proves my point.

V8s aren't perfectly balanced, but the only part that makes a 90 degree V8 unbalanced, is the 1st order free moment (Bosch Automotive Handbook, 7th Edition, pg. 475). V10s are far more complicated to balance, and I5 engines are similarly odd.
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I didn't say they are inherently balanced, and mentioned a split crankshaft. I only said, compared to the V8s, all the engineers agreed that balancing out the V10s was far easier than balancing the V8, and that apparently yes, second-order vibration was existent and quite severe - Toyota, apparently, struggled quite badly with it in 2006. Perhaps a V8 is slightly more balanced, but in the F1 application, it wasn't as easy to completely balance out. I did get mixed up between Flat engines and boxer engines later on in the post, though.

The F1 V8's greatest point was the screaming post-21kRPM redline - but that's lost now with a 18kRPM redline mandated for the next year. That's, well, what the V10 reached back in 2001... And the V10 sounded so much more ferocious.
 
Anyway, forget the Honda engine. The soon to be "former Honda" team - if it exists still next year - will probably be powered by Ferrari engines
 
TheCracker
Still other parties interested, but i think Prodrive had the best chance of making a success of things.
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I don't know about that ... according to Nick Fry, they had about thirty groups express interest, which they've since narrowed down to a dozen, so it looks like they've got things well in hand, even if they won't be testing. Normally, that sort of talk would be hyperbole designed to make the remains of the team look like tey're not a total disaster, but I don't think Fry is the kind of person to tell tales.

Mind you, without testing it's going to be another rough season for "Honda" ...
 
TheCracker
Prodrive have announced that they've ruled themselves out for now as a contender to buy the Honda F1 outfit.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72672

Still other parties interested, but i think Prodrive had the best chance of making a success of things.
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Thats a real shame, I'm sad to see that though it will be interesting what Prodrive turn to now with no WRC Subaru team to manage and am I right in remembering that Aston Martin are not running a GT1 team this year at Le Mans?
I wonder what they will do now? I vote they return to BTCC 👍

I have to say I'm not surprised Richards feels its just not worth it right now.
 
Ardius
Somewhat randomly, Fry has now decided to try and buy the team:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=44889

Wonder where this will go?
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Apparently quite a few of the people who put in a proposal have been unimpressed that they didn't make the final twelve. I suspect what Fry is doing is putting a tender out there and saying that it is what a prospecive buyer needs to be able to match in order for the team to stand a chance at survivng. After all, Fry is the man in charge of the team, so who would know better about running it than he? I don't think he's dismissing others to improve his chances at being the one to buy the tam, I think he's trying to weed out the lesser proposals so that the Team Formerly Known as Honda F1 will have the best chance of surviving.
 
And what nasty trick is that? They article doesn't specifiy what that might be, it only underscores deeper problems with Honda. Sure, he might be a little autocratic, but have you noticed how running a team by committee is no way to win? Honda and Toyota have proven as much.
 
If he's interested in the team, as everything seems to suggest, then what the hell is he doing in charge of the sale? As a potential buyer, he should distance himself from the team and compete fairly - instead, he remains as the head, in charge of the sale, and with the ability to screen out other bidders.
 
Metar
If he's interested in the team, as everything seems to suggest, then what the hell is he doing in charge of the sale? As a potential buyer, he should distance himself from the team and compete fairly - instead, he remains as the head, in charge of the sale, and with the ability to screen out other bidders.
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Just because you have power, that doesn't mean you abuse it by default. Yes, it's suspicious, but like I said, it could simply be a case of Fry putting forth a tender that he thinks s the benchmark all prospective buyers need to at least meet to guarantee the team's suvival. It's exactly what I'd do.
 
The livery would be pretty good. I imagine to be something like this.

PicForNewsletterMay2006VirginTrain.JPG
 

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