How did Gran Turismo Sport make GT franchise no longer a laughing stock?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by o000o, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. breeminator

    breeminator

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    Recent posts on the Forza Horizon 4 forum:

    "this limited availability system for cars is beginning to grind my gears"

    Someone else:

    "Yeah, the whole time gating and vehicle exclusivity thing in Forza is slowly but surely pushing me away from the franchise. Real life is most definitely more important than Forza, and if the game is going to punish me for having a life outside of the game, then honestly the game probably isn't worth my time or money.
    It's a real shame since there are parts of the game I really do enjoy, but then there's this unnecessary layer slapped on top that drags down the whole experience."

    It was claimed earlier in this thread there is a trend for people to move from GT Sport to Forza, but all I've seen is people moving away from Forza, with the time gated vehicle availability a huge negative for a large number of people.

    Let's just hope PD aren't busy copying that from Forza for the next GT game!
     
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  2. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    :odd:
     
  3. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    Yeah, and that post you're referencing isn't any more right than your post. It's not a huge number, the people on the internet complaining on an official board about something are always going to be the minority, no matter what way you look at it. Not only that, but no where in there is it saying that they've jumped ship to GTS, so that's a massive stretch referencing another massive stretch as if it validates anything.
     
  4. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows Premium

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    Plus...it's not like GTS hasn't been prone to alienating fans of the series based on the actions of the developer.
     
  5. jflomario

    jflomario Premium

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    You're talking about the unicorn cars, right? I don't think anyone likes them other than the "no lif.." *coughs* :yuck: dedicated players.

    The cars are meant to be rare, and no one should base their experience on them. Those are not legit grounds for leaving a game though. Especially Horizon 4 which is more akin to Ridge Racer than it is to Gran Turismo.

    Strange that someone would write that considering how accessible that game is. In Horizon 2 my second car was a Lambo. The Huracan if I remember correctly.
     
  6. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    Not only that, but those cars aren't advertised as the full game list. They're free extras. I dislike the idea just as much as the next, but it's hard to complain about things that are free in the first place.
     
  7. Felix

    Felix

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    GT-Sport had a really bad launch, which has caused a certain stigma to attach itself to the game. GT-6 was the first GT game in the series I didn't bother getting, as GT-5 really got shown up by Forza 4. The one thing I enjoyed with GT-5 was the online racing, which made me excited for GT-Sport. I actually bought my original PS4, T300RS and Premium pedals when I read it was coming out. Sadly it was delayed and I think it took another 18 months to finally come out, which was still too soon IMO. GT-5 did become a bit of a joke with it's sound FX's at the time, as the cars sounded more like Dyson than a mid 00's flight sim's jet engine FX's.

    GT-Sport has been playing catch up ever since and I'm actually enjoying the game so much more than I thought I ever would. The thing is, GT-Sport is not really a true "Racing Simulator" when compared to many of it's current rivals. I think by either sheer fluke or a masterstroke, it sits nicely between an all out sim such as iRacing and the more arcade style racers such as Need For Speed. Thank god that the GT team have finally managed to get the sound of the cars to be way better than GT-5.

    I think I have bought most of the big rivals to GT-Sport on my PSN accounts, yet they seem to lack a certain spark that Kaz has imbedded into GT-Sport. Project Cars 1 & 2 , seems to be the biggest threat to GT-Sport, as they seem to fit into the same area of game sim level. I find PC2 can get really long winded, with the amount of race series and tracks you race on, to progress to the next series level.

    With websites/forums like GT-Planet, there are so many player organised events and online series, for GT-Sport, that it makes it worthwhile to keep playing. I do enjoy the single player element these days, but my biggest weakness is having to drive using the sports tyres, as the grip levels seem to change every few patches, going from driving on ice to having grip levels that feel more like the Michelin Sports on my Z4M.

    The sad truth with GT-Sport is it is still missing a ton of features that all of it's rivals have managed to include, usually on smaller budgets than what I would imagine Kaz and his team have. There is still no variable weather conditions, there is no day-night transitions while racing, which really effect doing Gr1 & 3 endurance races on Le Mans ect. These features are a must have in modern racing games these days and the fact it's missing from GT-Sport is staggering. Also, some of the in game features that previous GT games have had from the start are no longer there, such as doing oil changes, buying better parts for the cars and so on.

    The amount and types of cars GT-Sport has, was a big letdown during launch and it's nice that we don't have to keep buying DLC race packs, so we can get the new cars/tracks. As you can tell from this post, that the LMP/Group C and GT classes are what I enjoy racing the most, so for the Mercedes CLK-LM/CLK-GTR and more importantly the Toyota GT-One to not even be in the game at this point is disappointing. Yes it is getting better every quarter, but there are so many legendary/cult race cars still missing in the game.

    But even with all the faults I find with GT-Sport, I'm still able to enjoy playing the game and the features that were new in GT-Sport, such as liveries is awesome. I love the fact that I am able to race some of the older cars, with their proper tobacco sponsors, just like I remember watching them when I was a kid. I do hope before the updates finally finish, that we will be able to have proper variable weather and day/night changes during a race, as I love the GR-1 and 3 races that are organised by users on these forums. Le Mans is such an awesome race to me and I use to love the moment night suddenly turns into dawn and then the morning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  8. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    That's why everyone is hoping that GT7 will be a much better game than GT Sport.
     
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  9. breeminator

    breeminator

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    Sorry, it wasn't my intention to convey that they are moving to GT Sport. That is why I said "moving away from Forza", but I can see that the bit preceding that could have conveyed that I meant to GT Sport, but that was just an oversight in how I worded it. There has definitely been a lot of backlash against recent changes in FH4, and I've stopped bothering following FM7 all that closely, but watching videos of people playing with the new penalty system, it has been a long wait for something that seems like it is a very long way short of even the imperfect system in GT Sport.

    The problem is they can be OP for online racing, so if online racing is your main interest, it becomes essential to obtain every car as it becomes available. It's like racing a Gr.3 daily race in GT Sport and you find the top 50% of the field are beating you in cars you can't obtain because you needed to be playing the game during a specific week 9 months ago. The physics in FH4 are broadly similar to GT Sport IMO, and the online racing has the potential to be much better than FM7, because it has a better ranking system, and solves the course cutting problem.

    Anyway, a challenge - can anyone name a YouTuber with >100k subscribers who used to focus on GT Sport and now focuses on Forza? As an example of someone who has gone the other way, I name Super GT, and if we want to talk about a laughing stock, here is his look at the FM7 penalty system that has taken an eternity to add to the game:
     
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  10. Felix

    Felix

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    Do you think GT-7 will make it onto the PS4 or will like the rumours online claim, will be the launch game for the PS-5 next year?

    Over the period since GT-Sport was released, I have seen people quoting Kaz saying that the PS4 and PS4-Pro don't have enough power for the missing day/night and weather cycle transitions during a race?

    If GT-7 is actually one of the launch titles for the PS-5 next year, it will be interesting to see how much of a step up from GT-Sport. From statements I've seen online from some engineers involved with the PS-5, it's going to be the first time a console will have hardware specs that will still be seen on current PC's. Thanks to it being able to play PS-4 titles, they said that some of the loading times on Spiderman are around 12 seconds (fast travel) with the PS4-Pro, but on the PS5 they were timed at 0.8 secs, which blew my tiny perverted British mind!
     
  11. Sander 001

    Sander 001

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    More like a crying stock after the daily spinner lands me beside a $20 million car for the 31st time :sick:
     
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  12. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    Maybe not in terms of sales but rather focus and direction. The games has gone from Black Box to Criterion to Ghost, and it currently has an identity crisis. It doesn't know what it wants to be. At least Gran Turismo Sport knows which direction it's going in. But your rebuttal will probably be that GT Sport isn't a true GT game because it doesn't follow the same formula as previous games. Yet it still feels and plays like a GT game should, whereas Need For Speed has changed too much and too often.
     
  13. Nielsen

    Nielsen

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    I'm also talking about how physics affect car movement. However, I won't rule out that visual feedback has left a false impression that GTS communicates weight transfer better than its contemporaries. Fair point. Telemetry is not something I have analyzed myself, but I have no doubt AC and PC2 utilize and transmit the most comprehensive data.

    Broadly speaking, I have noticed similar characteristics comparing different nuances between these titles. That said, PC2 has left a somewhat blurred impression on me due to never having found controller settings that are 100% comfortable across the board, so in some ways it is difficult to really appreciate everything SMS has done to replicate physics.

    Agreed. Studios like PD and Turn 10 prioritize elements that boost casual appeal, and complex physics don't do that nearly as much as admirable graphics for the latest display technologies. Again, the "transparent physics" I chose to highlight for GTS boil down to the idea that PD has developed a more intuitive simulation than Turn 10 has for FM7, but GTS is certainly not intuitive like AC.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  14. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows Premium

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    Sure, at the expense of losing a not unsizeable chunk of it's fanbase because of that change in direction.
     
  15. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    Well, that's the problem with that game (GT Sport). It lacked the weather/time feature of the previous titles so that's why many folks are dissapointed with it. If GT6 was also released for the PS4, then that would have been more exciting. So it's not true that the PS4 isn't powerful enough to run those features in the game. Still, I think that GT7 will be released for PS5 soon since the latter will start to become obsolete already. We all know that it's a much powerful console than the one it replaces.
     
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  16. ArR29

    ArR29

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    Are you implying PD shouldn't try something new? Instead do the same thing over and over for almost 2 decades. Of course there's going be people who wouldn't like the direction of GTSport. But that's the point you have to take a risk to survive this unpredictable industry.
     
  17. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows Premium

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    No, I'm not. In fact, if you'd had read my posts from earlier in this thread, you'd see that it would have been preferable for PD to:

     
  18. MrWaflz55

    MrWaflz55

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    Oh joy, another thread where real sim racers destroy Gran Tardismo with facts and logic.

    Threads like this are completely pointless as everything contained from the first post thereafter is completely subjective. You can post a huge video essay explaining why you hate everything about GT in minute detail, but in the end your opinion is still subjective. Everything you find bad or wrong, someone else might enjoy. I enjoy my time with Gran Turismo Sport, therefore I stay. That’s about as deep of an explanation as I can give.

    Story time: A long time ago (not actually that long ago, around GT5), I used to be a Lol Flopza Retarrdzz kid and got my hard on for the MNP Skyline GT-R. I blindly hated Forza over the YouTube comments for a long time until I was able to finally play Forza 4 at my friend’s house. I was able to mature and grow out of that mindset of constant negativity and pessimism towards something that was alien to me.

    Perhaps if you feel that way about GT Sport, you should at least attempt to try an online race or use the game the way it was meant to be played before forming a complete opinion about it. I can’t change your viewpoint myself, but maybe you can appreciate something a little more the same way I did. If you still hate it, that’s fair, but at least you tried it.

    Almost reminds me of a time when I was offered to go see Aquaman in theatres but I bounced because I thought the movie was going to suck. But despite it looking really campy and being made by DC Films, the movie was actually really good once I saw it after it left theatres. I regret that choice I made so much in hindsight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  19. jflomario

    jflomario Premium

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    GT never changed directions. They became more focused.


    EA understands there's a market for more than one type of game. They release two or three of the same then re-invent. The same old will become stale. Now their games are just spiritual successors.

    Rivals=High Stakes(similar cover art too)
    2015=Underground 1(night/no super cops)
    Payback=mix of MW and Carbon(though the cops are limited to set pieces)

    Forza had two, so why not GT?

    I stopped watching him recently. That change was recent and stupidly quick. Wow.
     
  20. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I have to be honest as say I think that the visual side is leaving more of an impression that you may have initially thought, as the numbers behind that tell quite a different story, as does the reactions of the cars in specific circumstances.

    I 100% agree that PC and PC2 are difficult titles to get t grips with using a controller (@Wolfe may be able to help with that as he has settings that a lot of people find work well). GTS is certainly better optimised for a controller, but some of that is also down to baked in aids for the controller, and as such its once again another balancing act.

    Playing devils advocate here, how much of that intuitive is down to you simply being more familiar with GT as a series than FM as a series? I would be willing to bet it would not be hard to find people with the opposite viewpoint to this.

    That's a discussion that can be had on many levels, after all at its core NFS hasn't changed its fundamental approach of driving cars at speed on the public road and being chased by the police, that's been a part of its DNA since day one, and a core that has seen it sell more copies than any other racing series and retain a massive player base (one that is bigger than GTS on the PS4 alone). I would argue that in regard to its core focus and direction (street racing with a story) its kept as faithful as it was ever going to be able given that its a publisher owned IP that has been shopped out to multiple development teams, certainly its kept enough of that core t retain a solid player base.

    Now while it's certainly possible to use your own argument against titles in the GT series, and yes GTS does stand out to a degree with its clear shift in focus from single player to eSports, I would actually argue that the two titles that are most unlike other GT titles are actually GT5 and GT6. These both dropped the main core standard that many associates with the GT series, the standards of a high and consistent graphical standard and a push to keep as high and solid a frame rate as possible. GT6 also introduced a new standard for GT titles which has also carried across to GTS, that of releasing an unfinished product to then use updates to 'fill in'. Its also important to remember that as a first party studio PD have an advantage in terms of consistency of 'feel' that NFS was never going to have, which makes for an unequal bar in that regard, yet despite that NFS has not only retained its core gameplay loop but also made it work while other devs doing the same have fallen by the wayside.

    As such its an argument that can be easily used against both series if you focus on specific areas, while I would argue that both have retained core elements that make the series what they are, it just happens to be different areas, and as such a direct comparison can be switched to favour or dismiss either title in this regard.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  21. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    They've done nothing but do different things since GT4 mate. That's the trouble. They've gone completely away from the sandbox gameplay of the first 3 titles.
     
  22. Felix

    Felix

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    Ironically, it was also Forza 4 that got me to try a Forza game out (I even bought an XBox 360 just so I could play the damn thing). I always believed that Forza was typically a couple of years behind GT in the graphics department, but was way ahead with it's sound. I've not really played any of the more modern versions of Forza, but I like how you can play the game on either console or PC. If Kaz ever goes down that route, it could open the game up to a much larger audience and with 3rd party software, have the steering and pedals feel more realistic.

    But like you've said, people will always get positives and negatives out of a game, but what they are differ from person to person.

    @Tired Tyres I would say that Kaz's attitude has always been about the evolution of the game, rather than making drastic changes, which could lose you a large section of the audience. I think the way they manage online racing has been the biggest addition for GT-Sport, as it's meant to be about racing real people, rather than the AI. The thing is, it bite them in the arse as people were unhappy at the lack of any real single player options.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  23. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    I remember being stoked after playing the beta, for the direction that the game was heading into. I had finally wrapped my head around the intention of the penalty system and discovered the joys of clean driving. It was at that point that I was committed to buying GT Sport.

    Jeff Gerstman, gave his opinion on the release of GT Sport, and he was completely dumbfounded, confused, and overtly angry at the seemingly arbitrary nature of the penalty system. I had always considered Jeff as the race game enthusiast at Giant Bomb (to many I'm sure he still is) so I was shocked to realize that he, "didn't get it". Then it occurred to me, nobody in the console market plays racing games correctly. It wasn't Jeff that didn't "get it", it was PD and myself that didn't get "it", "it" being the current console video game climate.

    Instantly after that, I knew that the initial wave of reviews were going to be pretty bad. People thought that they could just race like they normally did, but here was this game constantly slapping their hand and bluntly telling them that they were all cheaters and hacks. That their race craft sucked and that they had no place on the tarmac. It pissed off the gaming community. Even if they couldn't articulate the offense, the penalty system was an indictment of the console gamers' racing abilities from Mario Kart all the way through to GT6.

    People bounced off of the game in droves. Many of us were into this game from the beginning but I remember my friends who wanted to buy the game with me, they totally stopped playing it after 3 months.

    Then, over time it began to win over the YouTube community of sim drivers. They immediately saw what the game was trying to do with the penalty system and though they played all of the other sim racing titles, they kept coming back to GT Sport for it's relatively clean racing combined with it's rapid match making system. I think the YouTubers are the ones to thank for the prolonged interest in GT Sport. New racing games keep coming out and the YouTubers cover them but they always keep GT Sport in the rotation despite how long it's been out.
     
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  24. Richie massie

    Richie massie

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    GTS was never a laughing stock. To make the Best Racing Sim game on a Console takes time & patience. And Polyphony is trusting us to have patience with them while they do their stuff ....
    Forza are just rushing their stuff out hoping for dear lord to make a dent on GTS which just isn't working out at all...
    Figures says it all
     
  25. Beezer215

    Beezer215

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    Ya, still waiting for them to do that. lol
     
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  26. o000o

    o000o

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    Read again I'm not saying GTS is a laughing stock. I'm saying that from PS3 era GT started to become laughing stock, and ironically GTS is NOT, despite having some traits from PS3 GT as I said in first post.
     
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  27. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Oh dear.

    It's not the best racing sim on console.
     
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  28. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows Premium

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    ...as if Polyphony didn't do the exact same thing rushing GT League out the door when people were rightfully pissed about there being no single player content aside from one off arcade mode races, license tests and Circuit Experiences?
     
  29. Richie massie

    Richie massie

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    Ohhhh kayyyy...... I'll take that back
     
  30. beyond72

    beyond72

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    Best 'real driving simulator' since 1997!

    *goes back to playing FM7 freeplay*