How did Gran Turismo Sport make GT franchise no longer a laughing stock?

[ScottPuss20]

Oh look, another Forza vs GT thread. But was GT ever a laughing stock? Yes there were some issues in the past with community involvement and engine sounds, yet the game still has enviable sales and a massive fanbase. If you want a laughing stock, look at Need For Speed.

 

[ARTAsean]

If you want a laughing stock, look at Need For Speed.

I believe you mean Need For Lootbox

 

[AutobacsJM]

Do you really want that? In Sport Mode? Could you imagine?

Besides, I'm glad the days are gone of me hearing a 10yo popping gum or whistling or talking to their younger or older or both brothers and parents in the living room watching to everyone having dinner and I'm trying to race. Nah, I'm good.

that's what the mute button is for...have you played PCars or iRacing at all? communication between drivers is critical, no reason not to have it.

 

[teebone]

Let me guess....GT= real sim, Forza = arcade game

/thread

 

[Hoopzah]

....you really haven't looked at iRacing's system for licenses and such, have you?

No, I have not.

Man, those double standards are getting out of hand


Even with the FIA involved, it’s really not helping it do any more than titles that are running eSports events without having that Tag Line next to their name.

So what you’re saying is that T10 needs to catch up to what GT is copycatting? Are you that unaware of literally anything else on the market? Because you keep pointing at one ripping off the other, but the one your touting up is doing exactly that.

Yeah, that's it. Take what I've said and spin it with a catch all like "so what your saying is.." it. Double standards alright

 

[Silver Arrows]

No, I have not.

If you did, you would have realized pretty quickly that GTS' system of safety ratings is more or less a simplified version of what iRacing has done for years now, and in the case of iRacing, you are actively locked out higher disciplines until you reach a certain threshold.

I really get the sense your mindset is still stuck in 2007, considering you seem to believe the things that GT Sport is doing is somehow new and innovative. It isn't. It might be to a general gaming populace that isn't up to date on sim racers as the rest of this forum is, but it isn't to those that actually have some semblance of time put into it. But that's racing games in a nutshell - most of the good ideas have already been done, and it's just a matter of refinement.

 

[GTV0819]

Once you try it, you'll realise it has missing things, too, that are in GT Sport.

I like FH4 a lot, I really do, but it just annoys me so much at the same time. It could be truly great, but they just aren't interested in making all the changes that would achieve it. For example, tuning is REALLY important in the game, so there is a huge need to time trial your setups, over and over again. All fine, but..... the game doesn't have a time trial mode!!! You have to time trial your setups by racing them against AI, and even on the easiest level, 3 AI start ahead of you and it's a lottery whether you get clean past them or not. So you have to keep restarting the race until you fluke a clean pass of them all without costing yourself any time. I've had to restart maybe 50 times in the course of tuning one car. I'm sure you can imagine how annoying it becomes when you've asked via their official support system for a "no drivatars" option, or a time trial facility, and update after update comes out with "improvements" that are of no interest to you and actively make the game worse for you, while the things that would improve it so much get ignored. That is why I'm here.

Oh, and a taste of what awaits you if you try the ranked racing in FH4:



I had at no point done anything to provoke the driver in the last two incidents. It's very common for people to ram anyone who comes alongside to overtake.

I have yet to play that game but too bad. I still do not have the console to play but it seems I won't be able to buy it since it's kinda obsolete for me already. Would be good if I can get it for my PC although I'm wanting to conserve for other stuff than this game lol.

 

[o000o]

You...you do realize that progenitors of anything can be surpassed by the competition if they are put into a state of complacency, or any other number of factors?

Is that not what happened last generation? Because of Polyphony being caught off guard by the complex architecture of the PS3, among many other factors, it allowed Forza an opening that they took full advantage of, and now we're here.

Being an originator means jack **** in this day and age, especially in sim racing.

PS3 having complex architecture sure, it's also PD's excuse for their half assed work at PS3 that contributes to laughing stock, but everyone ignores PD excuse, looking at many other great games released on PS3, including people here in the past. AND with GT Sport being released late too (even if PD claims PS4 is ideal to work on unlike PS3) and GT Sport being also half assed at release, it's impossible for anyone to take PD or GT seriously anymore but somehow even with flaws GT is not that anymore.

 

[Scaff]

Oh look, another Forza vs GT thread. But was GT ever a laughing stock? Yes there were some issues in the past with community involvement and engine sounds, yet the game still has enviable sales and a massive fanbase. If you want a laughing stock, look at Need For Speed.

You mean the Need for Speed series that is still the biggest selling racing series ever and still has a massive fan base?

I only ask as you seem to be praising GT as a series for the exact same things.

 

[GTV0819]

You mean the Need for Speed series that is still the biggest selling racing series ever and still has a massive fan base?

I only ask as you seem to be praising GT as a series for the exact same things.

Yeah, why would he say that NFS is a laughing stock? It even has a Story mode compared to the other racing games here.

 

[Scaff]

They all released in 1997, and as far as I'm aware of GT was in development long before F1 and TOCA

Don't move the goal posts, development time is irrelevant, Toca launched months before GT, and the first PS F1 title was released in 96, an entire year before GT.

And Justin Bieber is relevant... how...?
I stated an opinion, which I'm entitled to.

It's an analogy, just because something sells well or is popular doesn't exempt it from ridicule.

I'm merely [re]stating what Kaz already has. Are they (Sony/PD) free to change their minds? Of course. But given the loads they've spent on market research, combined with the results of that research I think it's pretty clear what direction their going in... but who knows?

PDs stated direction or claims have turned out to be wrong many times in the past, as such unless you know what's in GT7, you can't be sure.

As far as Sony goes it's main metric will be sales, and in that regard while GTS has done better than GT6, its certainly not returned the series to its past sales heights.

Erm.. if by structure you mean grading based on a players skill and ability to race clean, which by the way is the only logical (and unpatentable) system, then I suppose you could be correct.

None of which changes the fact that it not unique., rather it's been borrowed directly from other series (and not implemented as well).

F1 has an FIA license, but Gran Turismo is the only video game to date that is accredited and FIA certified. And it started with GT6. I don't know the tangibles for future exclusivity (could be 3 years, or 10.. no idea), but as of now, nobody else can do what they are.

You need the FIA licence to run WRC and F1 esport series as well, they both exist, they are both licenced by the FIA and the WRC one was implemented before the GTS one.

In was planned that GT6 would have an FIA licenced series, but it never occurred, so no it didn't start with GT6.

One would think given the manner of your posting style you would elaborate on what exactly PD has "borrowed" from Forza.

There was a rumor I heard a long time ago that Microsoft approached Sony to get GT on XBOX. Sony basically said no. Now.. If you know anything about Microsoft's history in acquisitions, they are extremely aggressive. Microsoft is the company that if you say no, they come back and basically try to destroy you until you give in. Bill Gates was seen as a nerd, but his business savvy was absolutely brutal. That culture IS Microsoft. There are plenty of documented cases where they develop something that changes the market to get another company to submit. Remember the Netscape fiasco?
At this point it doesn't matter, and it was a rumor but, still...

Shortly after Sony declined, Forza is in development and here we are today.

And that's the last time I ever make that many quotes.

Livery editor, hopper racing online, online racing itself, linking with tyre companies to develop and promote a tyre model.

That's off the top of my head not having owned a Forza title this generation, I'm quite sure I've missed a few.

 

[PzR Slim]

I wouldn't say asinine, as much as factual.

Look, to me there is no "us/ them." From the microcosm to the macrocasm we are all one. If you know anything about the advancements humanity has been making into quantum physics, science is proving this.. yet I digress.

I'm very well read on quantum physics thanks and none of what you have written above has any bearing on what is being discussed.

As for your other points, I think they have been very well covered by other members and shown up for what they are. You really do seem to be looking at this whole discussion through heavily tinted GT glasses. There is a whole other world of racing games out there to experience and enjoy. Take of the glasses and broaden your horizons.

 

[ImaRobot]

Yeah, that's it. Take what I've said and spin it with a catch all like "so what your saying is.." it. Double standards alright

There is no spin and there was no catch. You're literally spouting double standards. It's hilarious how oblivious you are to it I also don't think you have any idea what double standards actually are, if that's what you're saying against that point.

 

[Silver Arrows]

This thread shows that for some, there's still a console warrior mentality when it comes to GT, and some of the responses here really do reek of people who seemingly think of GT as this all world beater still when it comes to name brand and recognition. That's about all GT has by this point - the proliferation of PC quality sims on console, plus hyper niche games like DiRT and even Ride have exposed GT for what it is lacking, and that most anything that GT has added with Sport has really just been cribbed from other games - some of it is quite well done (Livery editor by this point is leaps and bounds beyond Forza, I don't think that's much of an argument) and others are basically simplifications of what others have done, and not even that good (Safety ratings being cribbed straight from iRacing, as has already been established in this thread)

Frankly, if it wasn't for the release of Forza in 2005 (and to a much, much lesser extent Enthusia) then GT would, irregardless of any problems adapting to the hardware of the PS3, be in the same situation that Forza is in now with 7: a game that's bloated and very much a game that is going through the motions with regards to there being no more competition left to battle with (Or at least, any meaningful competition) So instead, after having an entire console generation where, through their own actions and actions outside of their control had their teeth kicked in by Forza, GT decided to rearm themselves, but now have thrown the baby out with the bath water and made a game that was obviously something else first - and after many, many (rightful) complaints, have begun to slowly push it back towards the GT most everybody knows, when this could have been avoided completely if Polyphony would have not made any rash follow the pack decisions and focused on areas where GT games previous were lacking. But we're here.

 

[Hoopzah]

There is no spin and there was no catch. You're literally spouting double standards. It's hilarious how oblivious you are to it I also don't think you have any idea what double standards actually are, if that's what you're saying against that point.

You took part of what I wrote, misrepresented (or misunderstood... hard to tell with you particularly) it, and applied YOUR view.. ie "spin." And I didn't say"catch" I said "catch-all" see, you really should read- and at the very least comprehend- ALL of what someone says before coming off like a smug intellect by paraphrasing part of a statement.
Here ya go;
Catch-all (noun): a term or category that includes a variety of different possibilities.

 

[Silver Arrows]

You took part of what I wrote, misrepresented (or misunderstood... hard to tell with you particularly) it, and applied YOUR view.. ie "spin." And I didn't say"catch" I said "catch-all" see, you really should read- and at the very least comprehend- ALL of what someone says before coming off like a smug intellect by paraphrasing part of a statement.

So, lets push it back into the realm of this thread then (a crappy thread, but a thread nonetheless)

So what you’re saying is that T10 needs to catch up to what GT is copycatting? Are you that unaware of literally anything else on the market? Because you keep pointing at one ripping off the other, but the one your touting up is doing exactly that.

Answer the question.

 

[ImaRobot]

You took part of what I wrote, misrepresented (or misunderstood... hard to tell with you particularly) it, and applied YOUR view.. ie "spin."

No I didn't misrepresent your view. You posted this:

With the evolutionary curve Poly seems to be taking GT on Turn 10 needs to come up with something truly unique instead of just ripping PD off as they have in the past.. and continue to do.

You talk about them copy catting and that their behind the "evolutionary curve" presented by PD. However, their "evolutionary curve" with GTS revolves around borrowing( or using the definition you used, stealing) from other developers. So with that, there's no other meaning that T10 needs to hurry up and catch up to what GTS is borrowing(or using the definition you used, stealing) from other devs. It was a simple concept, and none of it was misrepresented. It was just bringing to light how you absolutely have double standards when it comes to one game and another.

And I didn't say"catch" I said "catch-all" see, you really should read- and at the very least comprehend- ALL of what someone says before coming off like a smug intellect by paraphrasing part of a statement.

No you didn't actually, and that hyphen quite literally changes the meaning. So don't blame me for your lack of comprehension. I figured that, with your lack of objectivity and double standards, that you used the word "all like" much like kids do in recent years.

But hey, way to avoid all the points proving you wrong and instead focusing on something literally that has nothing to do with the discussion and instead act like a child and go after the poster, instead of the post. Brushing it under the rug doesn't make it go away.

And just like double standards, I'm also going to assume that you don't know how to actually use "catch-all" because that didn't involve a variety of different possibilities, it revolved around what you said directly about other games, and applying it the same way because you're either willfully ignoring those facts, or you're just ignorant to whats actually going on.

 

[Hoopzah]

Lol..

 

[Satomiblood]

Do you really want that? In Sport Mode? Could you imagine?

Besides, I'm glad the days are gone of me hearing a 10yo popping gum or whistling or talking to their younger or older or both brothers and parents in the living room watching to everyone having dinner and I'm trying to race. Nah, I'm good.

If people want voice chat, then that's great for them if it's ever implemented. I won't be using it. In-game voice chat hasn't been particularly good to me over the years: kids crying/screaming in the background, obnoxious music, players sounding like they've got **** in their mouths, racial slurs, etc. No thanks. I think I'm good. Besides, sound means everything to me in a racing title. And I need to limit outside noises as much as possible.

 

[Hoopzah]

So, lets push it back into the realm of this thread then (a crappy thread, but a thread nonetheless)



Answer the question.

No I didn't misrepresent your view. You posted this:


You talk about them copy catting and that their behind the "evolutionary curve" presented by PD. However, their "evolutionary curve" with GTS revolves around borrowing( or using the definition you used, stealing) from other developers. So with that, there's no other meaning that T10 needs to hurry up and catch up to what GTS is borrowing(or using the definition you used, stealing) from other devs. It was a simple concept, and none of it was misrepresented. It was just bringing to light how you absolutely have double standards when it comes to one game and another.


No you didn't actually, and that hyphen quite literally changes the meaning. So don't blame me for your lack of comprehension. I figured that, with your lack of objectivity and double standards, that you used the word "all like" much like kids do in recent years.

But hey, way to avoid all the points proving you wrong and instead focusing on something literally that has nothing to do with the discussion and instead act like a child and go after the poster, instead of the post. Brushing it under the rug doesn't make it go away.

And just like double standards, I'm also going to assume that you don't know how to actually use "catch-all" because that didn't involve a variety of different possibilities, it revolved around what you said directly about other games, and applying it the same way because you're either willfully ignoring those facts, or you're just ignorant to whats actually going on.

I'm not specifically talking about GT Sport here. If one would care to look I've used "GT, or Gran Turismo" meaning the franchise as a whole. If you see 'GT' I'm saying the franchise. If you see 'GT Sport', I'm talking about this one title.

People have stated in this very thread that the ranking system used is "a simplified version of what iRacing uses." Ok, cool. Is it a direct copy? Nope.. I never provided any exact examples of what is being "stolen" as I put it, either. Reason being, I'm referring to the GT "model" as a whole (tons of cars, pick one, tune/customize, then race) Forza has taken. GT Sport has success with a ranked online system, a few months later Forza now has a ranked online system.. hmmmm..... (See the correlation of the rumor I wrote about now???)

That model was Gran Turismo. They've now dumped it, but it was unique, and it evolved the industry.

It would seem something I said ruffled some feathers and in the heat of the moment some chose to respond without realizing no specific examples of "theft" were cited (because I've only referred to the "model").. so they chose their own examples while also failing to realize the ONLY sim I've compared GT (Gran Turismo the franchise not this one game) to is Forza. Yet you continue to say "other games."
Sorry not sorry. It just seems to me a couple of you want an argument.. not going to entertain this anymore.

 

[Scaff]

I'm not specifically talking about GT Sport here. If one would care to look I've used "GT, or Gran Turismo" meaning the franchise as a whole. If you see 'GT' I'm saying the franchise. If you see 'GT Sport', I'm taking about this one title.

People have stated in this very thread that the ranking system used is "a simplified version of what iRacing uses." Ok, cool. Is it a direct copy? Nope.. I never provided any exact examples of what is being "stolen" as I put it either. Reason being I'm referring to the GT model (as a whole; tons of cars, pick one, tune/ customize, then race) Forza has taken. GT Sport has success with a ranked online system, a few months later Forza now has a ranked online system.. hmmmm..... (See the correlation of the rumor I wrote about now???)

It would seem something I said ruffled some feathers and in the heat of the moment some chose to respond without realized no specific examples of "theft" were cited.. so they chose their own examples while also failing to realize the ONLY dev I've compared GT (Gran Turismo the franchise not this one game) to is Forza. Yet you continue to say "other games."
Sorry.. not sorry.

So you ignore examples people provide and then move the goalposts.

Not a great way to contribute.

 

[Hoopzah]

If those examples were provided with a complete understanding of what I just wrote, then I would have been more than happy.

But they weren't.

 

[Veinz]

communication between drivers is critical, no reason not to have it.

No it’s not. I’m glad we don’t have to listen to mic spamming idiots at all, there is enough of that in other games.

 

[Scaff]

If those examples were provided with a complete understanding of what I just wrote, then I would have been more than happy.

But they weren't.

They were provided with more tgan enough detail.

What part of GTS lifting its livery editor from FM isn't clear?

What part of GT as a series being beaten to online racing or hopper races by Forza wasn't clear.

What part of FM using ties with tyre manufacturers to promote a tyre model before GT used the same idea wasn't clear?

Oh and I just checked, GTS 'unique' ranking system for online that they lifted for iRacing also wasn't the first on console either.

Edited to add that Sega GT beat GT to having a photomode as well, just remembered that one.

 

[Boston77]

No it’s not. I’m glad we don’t have to listen to mic spamming idiots at all, there is enough of that in other games.

I understand why voice is off in sport mode but in my created lobby I would love to have it. (Back)
I’ve raced for years with the same group of people. Having voice is critical for continual clean racing.
My lobbies are not full of screaming kids. Music is not being played. No racism (insta kick).
It’s more like :
“you are clear inside”
“Sorry for that tap”
“Nice pass/nice win”
The party chat system works but is limited to only 8 people. My lobby is regularly full. The 2 party chat system doesn’t work well in this application.
A simple voice on/off option would be best for public lobbies.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I'm not specifically talking about GT Sport here. If one would care to look I've used "GT, or Gran Turismo" meaning the franchise as a whole. If you see 'GT' I'm saying the franchise. If you see 'GT Sport', I'm talking about this one title.

This seems to be splitting hairs to your overall point.

People have stated in this very thread that the ranking system used is "a simplified version of what iRacing uses." Ok, cool. Is it a direct copy? Nope..

It's kind of is. Again, it's a simplified system, and doesn't lock people out of driving faster cars in higher disciplines, but there's no denying that it's a copy.

GT Sport has success with a ranked online system, a few months later Forza now has a ranked online system.. hmmmm..... (See the correlation of the rumor I wrote about now???)

So has PCARS 2, so has Assetto Corsa Competizione, and others. Your point?

It would seem something I said ruffled some feathers and in the heat of the moment some chose to respond without realizing no specific examples of "theft" were cited (because I've only referred to the "model").. so they chose their own examples while also failing to realize the ONLY sim I've compared GT (Gran Turismo the franchise not this one game) to is Forza. Yet you continue to say "other games."

Because what you're trying to argue is that GT is somehow this innovative series compared to Forza, when in reality, many of the 'ideas' that you listed have been done in other games, and is really only Polyphony doing it better (in the case of livery editors) or simplifying it to a general audience (safety ratings)

If the series was so focused on innovation then why would they freely admit to taking ideas from other games?

This is the entire crux of the argument both in this thread, and in your posts. In the case of your posts, it shows that you have an almost total tunnel vision when it comes to what any other game in the sim racing genre does.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm not specifically talking about GT Sport here. If one would care to look I've used "GT, or Gran Turismo" meaning the franchise as a whole. If you see 'GT' I'm saying the franchise. If you see 'GT Sport', I'm talking about this one title.

And that changes nothing, because it's still borrowing(or using the definition you've been using, stealing) from other developers just as much as the one you're trying to chastise.

People have stated in this very thread that the ranking system used is "a simplified version of what iRacing uses." Ok, cool. Is it a direct copy? Nope..

So what you're saying is that now that your original point has been refuted, you're now trying to move the goal posts? You didn't say anything about being a direct copy of anything, what you've been saying is that it's being copied and how T10 isn't original at all. If that's the case, than what you're saying isn't even true about T10 either, because it's literally not an exact replica of the games it's learning from.

I never provided any exact examples of what is being "stolen" as I put it, either.

Because it's very likely that you don't really even know, at all, going off what you've been saying so far. You've even admitted to it directly when asked about iRacing.

Reason being, I'm referring to the GT "model" as a whole (tons of cars, pick one, tune/customize, then race) Forza has taken.

GT did not come up with that at all, aside from having a larger carlist. That's literally the basis for practically any racing game existing, even Need For Speed.

So is that another thing it borrowed(or going by the definition you've been using, stole)?

GT Sport has success with a ranked online system, a few months later Forza now has a ranked online system.. hmmmm..... (See the correlation of the rumor I wrote about now???)

And iRacing has had one for years before GT even attempted it. So is that something else they borrowed?(or going by.. you know what, I think you get this point by now.)

It would seem something I said ruffled some feathers and in the heat of the moment some chose to respond without realizing no specific examples of "theft" were cited (because I've only referred to the "model")..

No, what you said was completely false, so people are just proving you wrong and calling it what it is. You didn't list examples because you labeled the game as a whole as stealing. Is it that hard to see? Must be those double standards.

so they chose their own examples while also failing to realize the ONLY sim I've compared GT (Gran Turismo the franchise not this one game) to is Forza. Yet you continue to say "other games."

Yeah and that doesn't even matter, because what you're doing is saying one game is stealing from PD, yet it's PD who is doing the exact same thing. Other games are mentioned because it's directly relevant to the biased point you're trying to make.

Sorry not sorry. It just seems to me a couple of you want an argument.. not going to entertain this anymore.

Says the person that keeps continuing to argue with factually wrong statements.

The thing is with this genre, is that it's really hard to be innovative here because there's only so much you can do on the "sim market" compared to a full fledged arcade game like Need For Speed. It'll be like the episode of SouthPark where everything they come up with had a kid shouting in the back "Simpsons did it!" At this point, what we need is for PD to continue borrowing idea's from others that are missing from their game, as well as expanding on the ones they already have. It's simple. When I say PD, it goes for most of the Genre as well.

 

[Silver Arrows]

At this point, what we need is for PD to continue borrowing idea's from others that are missing from their game, as well as expanding on the ones they already have.

Somewhat off topic, but it would have been nice if PD hadn't thrown out the baby with the bath water and completely eliminated the single player element at launch, and instead put it in and actually had tried to fix what the series has been plagued with for years (that being completely anemic races which basically come down to chase the rabbit scenarios)

 

[Scaff]

GT did not come up with that at all, aside from having a larger carlist. That's literally the basis for practically any racing game existing, even Need For Speed.

And on console, the very first title to do so was the very first Need for Speed title, back in 1994 on the 3DO. Which was then released on the Playstation in (wait for it) 1996.

 

[ImaRobot]

Somewhat off topic, but it would have been nice if PD hadn't thrown out the baby with the bath water and completely eliminated the single player element at launch, and instead put it in and actually had tried to fix what the series has been plagued with for years (that being completely anemic races which basically come down to chase the rabbit scenarios)

The lack of some sort of offline career mode was a big no for me. They tried to alleviate it after launch, and I'm glad for that, but it still seemed like an afterthought.

And on console, the very first title to do so was the very first Need for Speed title, back in 1994 on the 3DO. Which was then released on the Playstation in (wait for it) 1996.

Oh but GT was probably in development before even that so it doesn't count!