How turning off all aids made me a better, faster driver.

[andryush]

I heard that in time trial events top players drive with SRF ON. I know for sure that it helps a lot on Nordschleife. Especially on last few turns after long straight, if you go too fast, you're dead. SRF can help to go through this corners without problems. Saw one player, who even after going off track at 330kph recovered easily on track...

 

[FerrellJ]

I'd like to point out that this is all speculation and anecdotal evidence, and therefore, invalidated

Okay, I'll rephrase it to be a little less speculative then- I just tested and was able to stop just as quickly without ABS as I was with (from 102 mph to a dead stop).

The point of this thread is that TCS and ABS will inhibit the ultimate capabilities of the car around a racetrack. In that sense, factual observations about laptimes and performance with and without various assists are hardly invalid.

 

[eclipsee]

Okay, I'll rephrase it to be a little less speculative then- I just tested and was able to stop just as quickly without ABS as I was with (from 102 mph to a dead stop).

What tire compound, racing soft?

 

[Skython]

I heard that in time trial events top players drive with SRF ON. I know for sure that it helps a lot on Nordschleife. Especially on last few turns after long straight, if you go too fast, you're dead. SRF can help to go through this corners without problems. Saw one player, who even after going off track at 330kph recovered easily on track...

Yes, a lot of them do. SRF allows you to have unrealistic amounts of grip meaning you can take the corners at a speed fast enough to give an unfair advantage over those who drive without it.

I think lots of people sort of miss the point of driving in order to be at the top of a leaderboard, they tune, or they turn on SRF and all these other little things. The time trial leaderboards become a test of who is the best at exploiting regulations rather than a test of legitimate driving skill. Not saying that those at the top of the leaderboards are bad drivers, because obviously they aren't. Hence why they're at the top, it's just that there are probably better drivers who aren't tuners.

 

[FerrellJ]

What tire compound, racing soft?

Comfort soft. Mazda Atenza.

 

[J24681357]

Now if only there was some kind of trophy or extra credits gained from completing races without aids. C'mon Kaz, you can make it happen.

This happens in Forza

 

[andryush]

Yes, a lot of them do. SRF allows you to have unrealistic amounts of grip meaning you can take the corners at a speed fast enough to give an unfair advantage over those who drive without it.

I think lots of people sort of miss the point of driving in order to be at the top of a leaderboard, they tune, or they turn on SRF and all these other little things. The time trial leaderboards become a test of who is the best at exploiting regulations rather than a test of legitimate driving skill. Not saying that those at the top of the leaderboards are bad drivers, because obviously they aren't. Hence why they're at the top, it's just that there are probably better drivers who aren't tuners.

I have never give much importance to SRF On or Off rooms in Online Lobby, but now, after your post i'm going to race only, in SRF Off rooms to have a good time...

 

[Stotty]

I used ABS 0 for most of career mode and found it a lot more manageable in GT6 than GT5. I enjoyed it... the occasional lock up added an element of challenge and partially made up for the rubbish AI.

But for time trialling, even if you can ultimately stop just as quickly without it, it doesn't make any sense to use ABS 0. It's much easier to be consistent using ABS 1, and as there's no disadvantage to using it, why would you add another variable to setting a fast time?

Maybe it's driver dependent.

Given Ramon is one of the very fastest drivers in the World, it's far more likely you aren't able to get the maximum out of ABS brakes than Ramon's not able to get the most out of not using ABS

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I used ABS 0 for most of career mode and found it a lot more manageable in GT6 than GT5. I enjoyed it... the occasional lock up added an element of challenge and partially made up for the rubbish AI.

But for time trialling, even if you can ultimately stop just as quickly without it, it doesn't make any sense to use ABS 0. It's much easier to be consistent using ABS 1, and as there's no disadvantage to using it, why would you add another variable to setting a fast time?

You answered your own question in a way, the extra element of challenge . For example for licence tests, I'm trying to top my friends list without using ABS, it seems I also got an additional challenge on top of that now too with leaderboards not updating so I may have to beat my time again for it to update. Luckily I know there is a lot more time on the table or it would have been very frustrating due to leaderboards not updating when doing a decent lap. I probably should try and get close to my maximum before carrying on but if I did that, I would probably would lose my mind a few licence tests in .

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I always felt marveled at the lap time of some players on tracks that I thought I knew well.

After I left traction control assist, my laps became as fast as them and discovered that I've always been a good driver, only the electronic was holding me back.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I used ABS 0 for most of career mode and found it a lot more manageable in GT6 than GT5. I enjoyed it... the occasional lock up added an element of challenge and partially made up for the rubbish AI.

But for time trialling, even if you can ultimately stop just as quickly without it, it doesn't make any sense to use ABS 0. It's much easier to be consistent using ABS 1, and as there's no disadvantage to using it, why would you add another variable to setting a fast time?



Given Ramon is one of the very fastest drivers in the World, it's far more likely you aren't able to get the maximum out of ABS brakes than Ramon's not able to get the most out of not using ABS

I am using ABS 0 not to make sense, it's how I prefer to drive in GT as I don't like how the brake assist works.

So, his name is Ramon He is the fast with ABS 1 indeed, but I don't see how you can compare me with him. I was saying that not everyone has the same experience when not using ABS or using ABS. Are you implying that if I used brake assist I will still be slower than him, and he will still be faster than me without brake assist, well that may be true, I'm no alien It will be interesting though to race someone like him in Deadnutseven format ( parity racing ) and have no ABS race

For experience, I never use ABS since day one in GT5 - even when racing online at Deadnutseven against people with ABS 1, never use it on GT Academy and TT as well.
I am on stick, so maybe with wheel I can be better ( used to be great on SEGA F355 with H shifter, Battle Gear, Sega Rally and PC sims - GP3, GPL, NASCAR 2003,etc ( no brake assist here too ) so driving with wheel is nothing new, sadly my old PC Thrustmaster wheel broke a few years back

Yesterday, I tried the supposedly broken MR race car : Audi LMS Ultra Team Phoenix, this car is not broken at all, just the stock setup badly balanced. Did some fiddling with LSD, suspension and brake balance. Running stock power 528HP, no oil change, 599PP, medium downforce ( 300/780 ) and stock gearing at Brands Hatch GP ( long one ) did 1:25s easily on racing hard. Not sure if that's good time or not, but I had a blast with no ABS in that race car, every braking was an adventure.

 

[Stotty]

I am using ABS 0 not to make sense, it's how I prefer to drive in GT as I don't like how the brake assist works.

So, his name is Ramon He is the fast with ABS 1 indeed, but I don't see how you can compare me with him. I was saying that not everyone has the same experience when not using ABS or using ABS. Are you implying that if I used brake assist I will still be slower than him, and he will still be faster than me without brake assist, well that may be true, I'm no alien It will be interesting though to race someone like him in Deadnutseven format ( parity racing ) and have no ABS race

When Ramon said ABS 0 is not as fast as ABS 1 (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...tter-faster-driver.296620/page-4#post-9187586) you replied to him with 'maybe it's driver dependant'.

I know you're committed to ABS 0, but I am 'implying' that, if someone as skilled as Ramon is faster, it is highly likely anyone (including you) would also be ultimately faster using ABS 1.

I understand people using ABS 0 from a challenge, or enjoyment perspective. But it ultimately, I believe it puts you at a disadvantage as far as lap times and are concerned.

What times you run in your own creations are somewhat irrelevant to the discussion as only you have run them... if you want to know how fast you are (or more importantly, how effective/ineffective ABS is) then jump in to a Seasonal TT and see how fast your times are against the majority. Follow one of the top 10 ghosts in to a corner that requires deep and precise trail braking (such as turn 1 in the current TT at Tsukuba)... if you can match the braking of the fastest drivers consistently with no ABS then come back and let me know... I'll be the 1st one to make the switch

 

[hatersgonhate]

I went back and did my own tests and you can stop in MUCH shorter distances without abs. How much depends on the car and the tires. Racecars will stop more quickly compared to road cars so the difference between no abs and abs is higher, but still noticeable in road cars. The grippier the tires the more of a difference as well.

The key to braking is letting the weight transfer. If u start braking before you come of the gas too hard they will lock. But if u let the weight transfer first, you can give it huge amounts of initial force without locking the wheels.

I swear practice proper technique on the brakes and you will be at or near the front of every race.
You make up more time with the brakes than you do with the throttle.

 

[hatersgonhate]

When Ramon said ABS 0 is not as fast as ABS 1 (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...tter-faster-driver.296620/page-4#post-9187586) you replied to him with 'maybe it's driver dependant'.

I know you're committed to ABS 0, but I am 'implying' that, if someone as skilled as Ramon is faster, it is highly likely anyone (including you) would also be ultimately faster using ABS 1.

I understand people using ABS 0 from a challenge, or enjoyment perspective. But it ultimately, I believe it puts you at a disadvantage as far as lap times and are concerned.

What times you run in your own creations are somewhat irrelevant to the discussion as only you have run them... if you want to know how fast you are (or more importantly, how effective/ineffective ABS is) then jump in to a Seasonal TT and see how fast your times are against the majority. Follow one of the top 10 ghosts in to a corner that requires deep and precise trail braking (such as turn 1 in the current TT at Tsukuba)... if you can match the braking of the fastest drivers consistently with no ABS then come back and let me know... I'll be the 1st one to make the switch

The time trials are done with skid recovery force on. Go read up about that and come back.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

When Ramon said ABS 0 is not as fast as ABS 1 (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...tter-faster-driver.296620/page-4#post-9187586) you replied to him with 'maybe it's driver dependant'.

I know you're committed to ABS 0, but I am 'implying' that, if someone as skilled as Ramon is faster, it is highly likely anyone (including you) would also be ultimately faster using ABS 1.

I understand people using ABS 0 from a challenge, or enjoyment perspective. But it ultimately puts you at a disadvantage as far as lap times and are concerned.

What times you run in your own creations are somewhat irrelevant to the discussion as only you have run them... if you want to know how fast you are (or more importantly, how effective/ineffective ABS is) then jump in to a Seasonal TT and see how fast your times are against the majority. Follow one of the top 10 ghosts in to a corner that requires deep and precise trail braking (such as turn 1 in the current TT at Tsukuba)... if you can match the braking of the fastest drivers consistently with no ABS then come back and let me know... I'll be the 1st one to make the switch

Ah, okay, I was wondering if anyone interested to run the LMS Team Phoenix with same power (528HP) and downforce, stock gearing, at Brands Hatch, suspension, brake balance and LSD ( open ) with RH tire, no SRF, ABS 1, will 1:25 be considered quick ? It was my curiosity.


If you look at the Hudson Hornet Hot Lap, ( your lap shown as ghost line when I did the TT along with some others within my time bracket ) I actually can outbrake you and most other ABS 1 driver on the 1st corner at Street of Willow and in front up to entry on 2nd corner, after that you guys rocketed away with tremendous traction from SRF. Most of them but one uses SRF and that was my aim to beat. I got 1:30.250 with no SRF and no ABS, beaten CLSACR which has 1:30.500 ( ABS 1 wheel no SRF ). I believe CSLACR ( GTP_CSL ) is pretty good driver, so I am not that bad. I red lapped a sub 1:30s once

Sadly, I won't ever use SRF on Seasonal TT just to stay competitive And believe me, I can brake as deep as any ABS 1 driver, ask JohnnyPenso, we had many races back in Deadnutseven GT5 day ( when no ABS was sadistic torture for most people ). Right now, my left analog stick is slowing me down

There are a few no ABS wheel driver that can stay at top ten in GT5 TT, some Japanese drivers, can't remember the PSN ID.

I went back and did my own tests and you can stop in MUCH shorter distances without abs. How much depends on the car and the tires. Racecars will stop more quickly compared to road cars so the difference between no abs and abs is higher, but still noticeable in road cars. The grippier the tires the more of a difference as well.

The key to braking is letting the weight transfer. If u start braking before you come of the gas too hard they will lock. But if u let the weight transfer first, you can give it huge amounts of initial force without locking the wheels.

I swear practice proper technique on the brakes and you will be at or near the front of every race.
You make up more time with the brakes than you do with the throttle.

This is true, I can't believe how deep I can trail brake the LMS Ultra Team Phoenix on the 2nd corner hairpin ( I used the Palmer sign as reference )

 

[Laserbeak43]

I feel you! I'll see you online after i hack a million XD

 

[Saidur_Ali]

What times you run in your own creations are somewhat irrelevant to the discussion as only you have run them... if you want to know how fast you are (or more importantly, how effective/ineffective ABS is) then jump in to a Seasonal TT and see how fast your times are against the majority. Follow one of the top 10 ghosts in to a corner that requires deep and precise trail braking (such as turn 1 in the current TT at Tsukuba)... if you can match the braking of the fastest drivers consistently with no ABS then come back and let me know... I'll be the 1st one to make the switch

I'm up for that, if I can beat you without ABS will you make the switch? .

 

[Stotty]

The time trials are done with skid recovery force on. Go read up about that and come back.

I know what SRF is.

Are you saying that ABS/no ABS works proportionally differently with SRF on and off? In so far as having SRF on makes no ABS more difficult? If anything I'd expect it to make no ABS easier with SRF on.

I'm up for that, if I can beat you without ABS will you make the switch? .

I can match Ramon in T1 at Tsukuba in the Integrale (well, within 0.05)... that should be a good guide for you.

Over a lap it's less indicative as mid corner speed and exit speed affect the overall lap time... and you are a faster driver than I am over a full lap my friend

 

[Stotty]

The time trials are done with skid recovery force on. Go read up about that and come back.

I know what SRF is.

Are you saying that ABS/no ABS works proportionally differently with SRF on and off? In so far as having SRF on makes no ABS more difficult? If anything I'd expect it to make no ABS easier with SRF on.

I'm up for that, if I can beat you without ABS will you make the switch? .

I can match Ramon in T1 at Tsukuba in the Integrale (well, within 0.5)... that should be a good guide for you.

Over a lap it's less indicative as mid corner speed and exit speed affect the overall lap time... and you are a faster driver than I am my friend

 

[hatersgonhate]

I know what SRF is.

Are you saying that ABS/no ABS works proportionally differently with SRF on and off? In so far as having SRF on makes no ABS more difficult? If anything I'd expect it to make no ABS easier with SRF on.





I can match Ramon in T1 at Tsukuba in the Integrale (well, within 0.5)... that should be a good guide for you.

Over a lap it's less indicative as mid corner speed and exit speed affect the overall lap time... and you are a faster driver than I am my friend

What I'm saying is having srf on completely nullifies your inputs to the car. Any mistake you make will be overruled by the fake video game assist.

All the other driving assists work as they should, they make it easier to control by dulling your inputs but they come with a speed penalty when they kick in.

SRF adds grip and traction higher than what is possible. I call it need for speed mode

 

[Stotty]

What I'm saying is having srf on completely nullifies your inputs to the car. Any mistake you make will be overruled by the fake video game assist.

All the other driving assists work as they should, they make it easier to control by dulling your inputs but they come with a speed penalty when they kick in.

SRF adds grip and traction higher than what is possible. I call it need for speed mode

Yes, SRF is rubbish, but I don't see what that has to do with whether ABS 0 is faster/as fast or not.

It's purely a comparative test.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I can match Ramon in T1 at Tsukuba in the Integrale (well, within 0.05)... that should be a good guide for you.

Over a lap it's less indicative as mid corner speed and exit speed affect the overall lap time... and you are a faster driver than I am over a full lap my friend

Is there any chance you can tell me your setup so it will be more of a equal battle between with and without ABS, hopefully TT does not run out soon. Will give it a go when I have some time.

Will see about Turn 1, I'm a bit of newbie still when it comes to heavy braking zones without ABS though so will be interesting to see how close I can get.

I hope I can keep up with you, yet to really do a seasonal TT in GT6 and that track I struggle to do well unless I got a good setup. Are you doing the TT without Active Steering? My hope of keeping up is the SRF driving school in the career mode has improved my knowledge on how to get more out of it in the corners .

 

[Whitestar]

I had all assists off in GT5, except ABS set to 1. But now in GT6 the ABS has gone too. It's so much fun driving without it. I've not tested whether I'm faster or slower though, just having fun.

However, there is still one aid that I use unfortunately. One that you may not even realize is having a subconcious effect on many players. What is it? It is...wait for it...the braking warning! What's that? I hear some of you say. It's the red flashing light that tells you that you need to brake. WHAT? I hear you say again! It's the suggested gear, it also doubles as a brake warning when it starts to flash.

I never even realized I was using it until I turned it off. Made me realize that I've never really worked up any of the tracks as regards braking points. All I had been doing was waiting until it flashed & then braking sometime after depending on the corner. The strange thing is, whenever I turn it off I'm slower! I guess I'll just have to go cold turkey at some point & turn the darn thing off.

Hahah, you are describing EXACTLY the same problem as I have. All aids off except this (well, I still often use ABS=1). It can be turned off in the options, right? Think I'll have to do just that. The gear indicator is very often wrong, as suggested by @niceness-dk and @HBR-Roadhog. Guess I'll just have to learn to "feel" the brake points instead.
Nice thread @Sarkazmo 👍

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Is there any chance you can tell me your setup so it will be more of a equal battle between with and without ABS, hopefully TT does not run out soon. Will give it a go when I have some time.

Will see about Turn 1, I'm a bit of newbie still when it comes to heavy braking zones without ABS though so will be interesting to see how close I can get.

I hope I can keep up with you, yet to really do a seasonal TT in GT6 and that track I struggle to do well unless I got a good setup. Are you doing the TT without Active Steering? My hope of keeping up is the SRF driving school in the career mode has improved my knowledge on how to get more out of it in the corners .

May I suggest the Hudson Hornet Hotlap instead if it's still live The game gives you the car and no tuning allowed, make for better battle. Turn 1 braking is just as tricky as Tsukuba. Would love to know your lap time too without SRF and ABS

 

[Saidur_Ali]

May I suggest the Hudson Hornet Hotlap instead if it's still live The game gives you the car and no tuning allowed, make for better battle. Turn 1 braking is just as tricky as Tsukuba. Would love to know your lap time too without SRF and ABS

Will give that a go too if it is still available, my target would be to get below 1:28.5.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Will give that a go too if it is still available, my target would be to get below 1:28.5.

Is that possible without SRF and ABS ? I can see 1:29s, but 1:28 would be very hard ... maybe not with a wheel Honestly, I don't know the limit without SRF, as almost everyone on my friend list uses it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Is that possible without SRF and ABS ? I can see 1:29s, but 1:28 would be very hard ... maybe not with a wheel Honestly, I don't know the limit without SRF, as almost everyone on my friend list uses it.

My target is based on this: Link

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

My target is based on this: Link

Cool, Spurgy, he is an alien, and looks like I am 1.5 second behind. The fishbowl curve is my weakness as my left analog stick often refuses to take it smoothly Only managed to take that corner quickly once and I red lap it when it gave me 1:29.3xx.

 

[FerrellJ]

The game gives you the car and no tuning allowed...

Including brake bias, which, at least with my driving style, is a 100% necessary adjustment if you're turning ABS off.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Cool, Spurgy, he is an alien, and looks like I am 1.5 second behind. The fishbowl curve is my weakness as my left analog stick often refuses to take it smoothly Only managed to take that corner quickly once and I red lap it when it gave me 1:29.3xx.

Yep, I know he is quick but hoping that time is not representative as it looks like I would need to go a lot faster to get in the top 250.