I just traded in my PS3 + GT5 for an XBOX360 + Forza 3.

[deftonesmx17]

430_Riviera, I see that you have a big dislike to GT5 or just a Forza fanboy with claims such as GT5 physics being light-years behind Forzas and also when talking about the feel of the road "Nah, it's not real, not even close. There are serious holes where things are simply ignored, cars will stick like baby sick to a blanket, and refuse to be upset by lumps in the track."

I suggest you go back and actually read the posts 430_riviera and I have written.

For example did you miss my post about collision detection and how the rumble strips in GT5 are perfectly flat objects, but are not in Forza?
Do you understand the difference between an active physics engine and an approximated one? Yes, active ones make mistakes when they come to a wrong conclusion. However, when they do not come to the wrong conclusion they are more believable. The best example I can give of this that almost anyone can understand is ragdolls. As I said, yes they may do odd things when they come to the wrong conclusion, but they are light-years ahead of approximated/canned animations.


Not directed at anyone in particular...
I've got to agree that it is insane how some of us are having an intelligent conversation and in comes the "I have no clue what I am talking about" fanboys.

Also, as stated modern sports cars handle extremely well. The Evo X, GT-R, Audi R8, etc., etc. are all prime examples of this with their state of the art ESC systems.

 

[DJAbacus]

This kind of self destructive chat is indicative of all games and gamers...which platform is better?...which game is better and why?

I don't like these kind of threads...they want to create issues.....

I much prefer stuff like..'what is your favourite car?'

Be a gaming hippy...peace to all games/platforms..👍

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Troll harder. So much passion they forgot to work on 80% of the cars.

And some cool cars

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think maybe you have a skewed idea of how actual high perfromance cars handle. Road and track cone slalom results show that modern performance cars are able to attack a slalom at over 70mph without losing control. Seen as a cone slalom is essentially flinging a car left and right at high speed I'd say Forza is fairly accurate in that you can maintain control whilst doing that. Also worth noting that unless the car is aimed at extreme high performance or track it is fairly likely to be engineered to understeer rather than oversteer as stock, you seem to be expecting it to try and kill you but they wouldn't sell very many if they had a reputation for going backwards into a wall. On fire.

You are correct, I greatly disliked GT5. Maybe because I bought a PS3 specifically for it and was all geared up for it being great. Kind of like ordering a brand new sportscar only to have it show up with a picture of an engine under the bonnet, rather than an actual engine. I've still got it, but it just sits there, staring at me, saying 'I cost you the best part of £400 mate, and i'm not even any good' It has nothing to offer me over Forza, indeed it almost certainly brings less to the table. It sits in it's case next to a well played copy of Motorstorm and sulks.

I may have a skewed idea of how actual high performance cars but I do watch quite a lot of different motorsport racing and also car testing videos. GT5 for me is a game I can relate to real life driving and motorsport videos the most.

I know that modern performance cars are able to attack a slalom at over 70MPH without losing control and I have seen many videos over the years that proves this. You can do this in GT5 as well and requires quite a lot of finesse and throttle control.

Here is an example:



This is not what I was arguing about though. The below video is what I suggested for you to test out.



This kind of driving going unpunished while using no aids for me is not very realistic. Granted I never really seen someone drive like that in real life or driven like that myself so maybe you can keep grip driving like that with no assists in real life but I never seen someone do this. If you can provide proof that you can do this in real life then I will change my perception that this is a realistic behaviour of a car.

Opposite to you my Forza 3 Ultimate Edition has probably been used less than your GT5 copy. I only played it for about 3 days and didn't like the floaty feel I got and the feeling I get that with sport cars, no matter how badly out of shape I get, with a bit of opposite lock, I will get pointing in the right way. GT5 I don't have that feeling and I like that. I haven't played Forza 3 with a wheel so maybe that will make it feel less floaty for me but the feedback from the road I get is similar to the feeling I get when playing Dirt 1. That is just my personal opinion from my experience.

Playing with a steering whee in GT5l, I can feel the bumps unsettling the car and if I don't place the car well for example tracks where the car jumps then I will lose all grip and most likely smash into the barriers. Granted I can get back racing in A-Spec due to lack of mechanical damage in that mode but the AI can catch quite quickly.

I have probably still played rFactor more than GT5 this year due to following F1 testing and I like to get myself up to speed on these tracks and see how fast the lap times are.

I like to add this article. Obviously articles and opinions can have bias so I'm not saying what they say is definitive but I see I'm not alone on the feeling that Forza 3 is less punishing than GT5 is:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/gran_turismo_5_vs._forza_motorsport_3-feature/direct_comparison_3a_gti_and_m3_at_laguna_seca_page_2

 

[superdan]

no matter how badly out of shape I get, with a bit of opposite lock, I will get pointing in the right way. GT5 I don't have that feeling and I like that.

Playing with a steering whee in GT5l, I can feel the bumps unsettling the car and if I don't place the car well for example tracks where the car jumps then I will lose all grip and most likely smash into the barriers.

👍 What I was trying to say.

 

[430_Riviera]

The only time I get that feeling in GT5 is when I touch the grass, even in the dry it's like glass topped with ice and oil. I didn't just discard GT5, I am level 28 on it, so have a fair old idea, and it wasn't particularly bad at it either. Golded the extreme Loeb challenge on a pad with no assists anyway.

It just totally leaves me cold. Utterly. It's just grind through particularly boring races full of stupid, no character AI, flat, uninteresting car modification with little personalisation.

Ah yes, the classic 'steering aid buffer' video. That has nothing to do with physics whatsoever, it simply makes the steering easier with a pad, which the majority of users will use. Having the console interfere with the steering to make the car more driveable isn't the greatest solution i'll admit, but under the circumstances with a physics setup like Forza has, it is likely the only way to make the cars driveable with a pad. Removal of that buffer (and I hope the option is available in FM4) will likely make the game diabolically hard.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

GT5:

Thats not GT5 look at the trees.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Way too much grip. I cant think of a single car on Forza that is difficult to drive.

Try a porsche 911 GT2 or an Ferrari 360 scuderia without all aids. Then come back tell me what happened.👍

 

[JoeMaPampang]

While I do agree, and at some point may buy an Xbox for Forza, I'll never leave GT because it got me to where I am today with racing games. Not going to turn my back on an old friend. Better to have both systems and both games, than one or the other.

I would recommend that too. I have both games. and race them on and of the weird thing is GT tends too frustrate me after playing longer than an half our or so. That's usually when i turn on Forza and i play all naight just doing stuff. Making custom license plates, Photomode(wich is lightyears better than Gt's), Tuning/upgrades (is just remarkebly detailed and indept), Tracks (Wow Gt has some awesome ones too), benchmark (check acc, tpspd, brakedstnc , lateral G's etc.), Telemetry (live feedback on tire temp, dampers and DAMAGE) but the main thing is that you can move true the menu's so much easier and quiker.

Light years in a unit of time so you may have a good point there. I doubt GT5 physics can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iDTXYA_9nQ&feature=player_embedded
Again the left side continue the exact same path even when skidding.
When I hit the curb in Fm3 the car acts like one of those flips Hollywood does where a car hit a parked car in the back (with a hidden ramp) and flips over on it's side.

lol.

While I do agree, and at some point may buy an Xbox for Forza, I'll never leave GT because it got me to where I am today with racing games. Not going to turn my back on an old friend. Better to have both systems and both games, than one or the other.

I'm in this camp on this one. GT5 bored me rigid and I often found myself driving races with one hand with my mind drifting off to think about something else. Not so with Forza 3 or F1 2010, they demand I pay attention, and to me that's what any racing or driving game should have as it's core attraction. Daz

I Concur. .👍

 

[JoeMaPampang]

.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

.

 

[deftonesmx17]

....
....
.....
....
Active Steering
....
....
....

Yes it's a flaw, but was smart game design; I'll explain.

Now see, I'll admit I have no wheel and play with a controller. However, one of my buddies does have a wheel for his PS3. Seeing as how GT5 was made with a wheel in mind, I find the game to be much better at his house than when I get home, load up GT5 and pick up my controller. All assists off in GT5 with a controller is crazy because the game doesn't expect you to be using one. Certain things I can do with ease at my friends with the wheel are hard as hell when I'd do them at home with my controller, until I turn on mild active steering.....

Forza 2 was made with a wheel in mind, thus why there was no active steering issue with it. Too bad the wheel sucked rocks and was abandoned. GT is made with the wheel taking priority; multiple good wheels actually.

As a smart developer, Turn 10 probably thought to themselves. The 360 doesn't have decent wheel options so FM3 will have to be made with the controller in mind. Why hello, Active Steering, you'll help. Most people will not even notice you because if they are racing, there is no 🤬 reasoning why they should be jerking the wheel back and forth anyways.

Just my opinion.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The only time I get that feeling in GT5 is when I touch the grass, even in the dry it's like glass topped with ice and oil. I didn't just discard GT5, I am level 28 on it, so have a fair old idea, and it wasn't particularly bad at it either. Golded the extreme Loeb challenge on a pad with no assists anyway.

It just totally leaves me cold. Utterly. It's just grind through particularly boring races full of stupid, no character AI, flat, uninteresting car modification with little personalisation.

Ah yes, the classic 'steering aid buffer' video. That has nothing to do with physics whatsoever, it simply makes the steering easier with a pad, which the majority of users will use. Having the console interfere with the steering to make the car more driveable isn't the greatest solution i'll admit, but under the circumstances with a physics setup like Forza has, it is likely the only way to make the cars driveable with a pad. Removal of that buffer (and I hope the option is available in FM4) will likely make the game diabolically hard.

You should get a steering wheel, I have a Logitech GT and that completely changes the game compared to using a Pad. Once you start playing with a wheel, playing with a Pad again gets boring quickly.

Also about the grass being like oil and ice, that is the case generally in real life if you put say your rear wheels on it at high speed. This video shows it quite well and I remember it the most:



It may not have anything to do with physics but considering it is forced for both wheel and pad users permanently, it changes the level of difficulty of driving all the cars, and makes losing a car impossible unless you have very high HP enough to smoke the tyres hard. The grip levels on Forza on grass is way to high IMO.

The excuse of it being the only way drivable with a pad is a bit lame considering that is the whole reason of having optional assists in the first place. More so for wheel users. I haven't used it with a wheel but I heard wheel users that play Forza complain about it and from videos of people driving on YouTube with Forza 3 on with no assists with a wheel, it just looks too easy to drive the cars with a wheel. Correcting cars is way to simple and requires very little skill in Forza 3 compared to say GT5, rFactor or Grand Prix Legends as you like. That is mainly due to the active steering working in the background so you have great confidence that you will get the car pointing the right way even if you are bad at countersteering.

Some people like the invincible feeling you get from FM3 in terms of correcting the car, I for one don't. I reckon a lot of people think most of their car saves are all down to their skill in Forza 3 but I quickly found out it wasn't due to messing about with the car and finding that I purposely couldn't lose control of a normal sports car through high-speed sharp left and right turns.

 

[Dopplegagger]

'Lolz, Gt5 is awesome and PD have so much more passion than Turn 10 and Forza only has 500 premium cars, that's like only 300 more than GT5. Sure, they couldn't even be arsed to build a proper physics engine or fix the sound from the stone age PS1 games, that's hardly worth even mentioning lol cos look at the amount of GT4 models you can drive in it!!!111!!one lol.'

I am not disagreeing with you, but in order for Forza to even have "premium" cars they have to have a set of cars that aren't as detailed and direct drops from a version of the game on the old system...

Just sayin'

 

[superdan]

Try a porsche 911 GT2 or an Ferrari 360 scuderia without all aids. Then come back tell me what happened.👍

I haven't driven the cars but i have driven some of the other porsches and found them quite easy, like the porsche time trial car.

 

[Lil Ape]

LOL GT PSP has more cars then that.

forza series is decent. turn 10 has done a good job trying to imitate Gran Turismo, but it's pretty obvious turn 10 lacks the passion for cars that PD has. That's why Gran Turismo games are and will always be so much better.

lol because the cars in GTPSP are incredibly low quality and there are 20+ duplicates of every car, just like GT5 and past GT games. FM3 has 500+ different cars, not a single car(except race cars) are the same, they're all different. FM3 also has 300+ more cockpit views than GT5.

I actually bought a PS3 just for GT5 back around christmas last year. I spent over $400 for a 160GB slim and several games and I've actually spent more time playing motorstorm PR than GT5. Pretty embarrassing for PD that I've put more time into a fantasy off road racer than a game that convinced me to fork over $400.

 

[Jcobsps360]

Congrats! You made a horrible choice! Forza 3 has half the number of cars and even less features and a constant assist. I could keep going, really!
You must be trolling... GT5 is a superior game in every single aspect. Now that you sold your Ps3 you will be missing out on the best games of this whole generation. Have fun with Forza 4 and Gears 3 and... Yea.

 

[CarreraGT]

And some cool cars.

GT5 has none of those cars Can't wait to see what they bring in Forza 4

 

[skubaben]

I dont get how ppl can say that forza 3 is better, i just cant.. If u ask me its 2 complitliee diff Race game's. I get it if u inn to styling cars getting rims on your wheels etc. Thats fine. But why talk crap abut Gt5. Gt5 can get boring to some of u if u dont have that kinda race intrest.
And if u play forza cuse porche is there. Or dont have ps3, Or some random exuse not to play Gt5. Gt5 is the race/car game in the world if u ask me.. Not saying i dont enjoy other race games.
But make Forzaplanet.net instead if u enjoy it more

 

[Terronium-12]

For the sweet love of Jesus.....

Stop insinuating that someone else is wrong just because they prefer one game to another. Someone thinks one game is better and you don't - guess what? That's called an opinion.

Get over it.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

O RLY?

So yeah, lightyears. I'd check up on stuff before you post it, as I've been told to during this thread by 'more knowledgable' types.

Don't give me definitions when referring to a statement that says something is "light years" ahead of something else. Obviously this is not a literal statement the start with. I know very well a literal light year is distance that light travels in a year. Literally I can find GT5 a few feet from Forza 3 in a store.

 

[CarreraGT]

Gt5 can get boring to some of u if u dont have that kinda race intrest.

This is exactly why I get bored with GT5. I love trying to lower my fastest lap at the Nordschleife, but as soon as I want a descent race I switch to F1 2010 👍

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

lol.

Did you really LOL since this is one of the most common glitches in video games? Video games usually has a physic engine (mostly handled by CPU) and a graphic engine (GPU). This is even done on purpose sometimes. For example you can go through cars racing online. Some RPG allows you to go through walls as hidden pathways.

 

[A1-242]

For the sweet love of Jesus.....

Stop insinuating that someone else is wrong just because they prefer one game to another. Someone thinks one game is better and you don't - guess what? That's called an opinion.

Get over it.

And the best thing about having an opinion is the part where you are allowed to argue your point.

And don't bother bringing Jesus into it, thats an argument waiting to happen.

 

[Bogie 19th]

LOL GT PSP has more cars then that.

forza series is decent. turn 10 has done a good job trying to imitate Gran Turismo, but it's pretty obvious turn 10 lacks the passion for cars that PD has. That's why Gran Turismo games are and will always be so much better.

fail

lol I played forza 3... it's just another arcade racing game, not a driving simulator at all. Yeah it's fun to play street racer, but I prefer realism.

It's just not in the same league as GT5... it's more suited for competition with the Need for Speed series.

Might as well say "I traded NFS shift and my PS3 for Forza 3 and and Xbox," Only reason I'd get an xbox is for call of duty... it's an inferior machine when it comes to processing.

fail

I may have a skewed idea of how actual high performance cars but I do watch quite a lot of different motorsport racing and also car testing videos. GT5 for me is a game I can relate to real life driving and motorsport videos the most.

You should get off the couch and actually go and race in real life. I have been doing it for many many years. It's so much better than watching or playing video games about racing. (oh, an racing in real life is realistic )

I know that modern performance cars are able to attack a slalom at over 70MPH without losing control and I have seen many videos over the years that proves this. You can do this in GT5 as well and requires quite a lot of finesse and throttle control.

This kind of driving going unpunished while using no aids for me is not very realistic. Granted I never really seen someone drive like that in real life or driven like that myself so maybe you can keep grip driving like that with no assists in real life but I never seen someone do this. If you can provide proof that you can do this in real life then I will change my perception that this is a realistic behaviour of a car.

Opposite to you my Forza 3 Ultimate Edition has probably been used less than your GT5 copy. I only played it for about 3 days and didn't like the floaty feel I got and the feeling I get that with sport cars, no matter how badly out of shape I get, with a bit of opposite lock, I will get pointing in the right way. GT5 I don't have that feeling and I like that. I haven't played Forza 3 with a wheel so maybe that will make it feel less floaty for me but the feedback from the road I get is similar to the feeling I get when playing Dirt 1. That is just my personal opinion from my experience.

Playing with a steering whee in GT5l, I can feel the bumps unsettling the car and if I don't place the car well for example tracks where the car jumps then I will lose all grip and most likely smash into the barriers. Granted I can get back racing in A-Spec due to lack of mechanical damage in that mode but the AI can catch quite quickly.

Many of us have had the exact opposite experience.

Did you really LOL since this is one of the most common glitches in video games? Video games usually has a physic engine (mostly handled by CPU) and a graphic engine (GPU). This is even done on purpose sometimes. For example you can go through cars racing online. Some RPG allows you to go through walls as hidden pathways.

I not only LOLd, but I LMAOd and ROFLd.

 

[Prince.M5]

FM3 also has 300+ more cockpit views than GT5.

300+ plus cockpit views that didn't impress me at all... Everybody just have to understand, GT5 is a simulator while Forza is more to a hard-racing game! They have both have the same bread, but just different recipe.

I not only LOLd, but I LMAOd and ROFLd.

It happens in GT4 and also a lot more other games... I don't have to LOL for it.

 

[Picbois]

For the sweet love of Jesus.....

Stop insinuating that someone else is wrong just because they prefer one game to another. Someone thinks one game is better and you don't - guess what? That's called an opinion.

Get over it.

:tup:Agree

 

[Bogie 19th]

It happens in GT4 and also a lot more other games... I don't have to LOL for it.

I see it in tons of games as well, but I still LOL when I see it.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Did you really LOL since this is one of the most common glitches in video games? Video games usually has a physic engine (mostly handled by CPU) and a graphic engine (GPU). This is even done on purpose sometimes. For example you can go through cars racing online. Some RPG allows you to go through walls as hidden pathways.

Wooooooooooww

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but...

In GT5, I'm almost certain you can perform a full weight reduction (3 stages) on a car with rear seats, but when you are driving the car and look behind (from cockpit view) you can still see the seats.

In forza 3, you see parts of the car actually being removed when performing weight reductions (like the back seats, front passenger seats etc).

That is correct

There are many issues with the mods in GT5, like how does a carbon prop shaft/flywheel increase engine responsiveness by being lighter, without ACTUALLY MAKING THE CAR LIGHTER? Every little mod in Forza affects everything, from weight, weight distribution, power, skid pan G, torque, shift speed etc. Even the weight increase from installing a beefier diff is factored in. Race brakes are lighter, race exhausts are dramatically lighter than stock, race flywheels can take over 10lbs off a car. All aero mods add weight and can reduce drag or increase downforce. Race weight reduction removes the rear seats in a sedan, you'll see the weight distribution move forward a couple of percent...

Why do we not see these changes in GT5? Simple, for the same reason that we don't see brake upgrades... Because the physics engine doesn't model things properly. No brake fade, no brake upgrades. No grip differences between drastically different models on similar tires, so there is a chance the game doesn't even model weight with regards to tire friction and therefore mechanical grip... Which leads to serious questions about just how accurate the game can be. You'll never see a car roll from hitting a curb in GT5, because it can't happen. But it can happen in real life. It doesn't matter if Forza hams it up a little, the fact it can happen at all is a signifier that it is closer to actuality than GT5.

The physics in Fm3 are several levels more complex than GT5, and they always have been more complex in Forza from the beginning. Forza is maybe a few tweaks away from being an incredibly good sim, Gran Turismo needs a drastic rebuild to be anywhere near.

I Concur.

Forza 3 is like pop music, no soul, crap & people still argue on its behalf. If you notice most Forza 3 owners are looking forward to Shift 2 & other 2nd rate driving game's.

No i own both and am looking forward too FM4 because GT6 or DLC will let me wait another 6 years.

I haven't driven the cars but i have driven some of the other porsches and found them quite easy, like the porsche time trial car.

Thats not considered a sim of Forza/GT caliber.

GT5 has none of those cars Can't wait to see what they bring in Forza 4

I know sure there are a 1000+ cars but there's more epic cars that did not make the list.

I not only LOLd, but I LMAOd and ROFLd.

RMLAOFLOL

 

[caf0011]

WOW talk about Sony central here. Look, to be objectively fair I was born n bred on the GT series (specifically 1-3). I am, however, a Forza convert. GT has rested on its laurels way too much over the years. Forza has been to say the least . . . progressive. GT5 does still feel stale since GT3. I've seen everything bashing Forza but lets keep it real and mature.
1. I've heard that the dash in Forza 3 cars don't work. Thats true for about 5% of the cars.
2. Its not a true simulator because it has a rewind function. Ummm, so do the military simulators (Airforce, Navy, Army), so do major airlines (Delta, Airtran etc. simulators for their pilot training) and F1 simulators so I guess those arent true simulators either. The rewind is actually a great tool to perfect a turn or section of the track, instead of going completely around again. And let me pose a GT5 question here. Leveling up to "win" damage is not arcade? Or having minimal to no damage to begin with? just a question.
3. Permanent assist - This one stumps me. I play with the fanatec wheel, so if there are permanent assists (steering) it must be with the pad which if it's true, I would know nothing about. EVERYTHING CAN BE TURNED OFF. depends on the individual racer.
4. GT5 has sold X number of millions than FORZA 3 has in its lifetime. lmao. So has Ford over Porsche. GT5 has history on its side. All that is doing is reassuring Sony that it's ok to rush a deadline and put out an incomplete product (the masses are asses theory) If we make it they will buy it. This rears its ugly head esp with GT5. They simply put out an incomplete product. That really can't be defended.
5. I am a fan of true racing (exception Nascar). I own a 03 acura rsx-s, a 09 370z and a 09 600rr. If I have access to a race IRL I'm there. GT5 is a simulator, the only problem I see with it is that it's packaged wrong. WTF were they doing for 6 years when Turn 10 pumps out quality every 2. Forza 3 is also a simulator that is polished. Not perfect, but polished. I've played GT5 but havent pulled the trigger on it for some reason.
6. Physics - very subjective. to me both are accurate. And if you haven't played both with the best wheel(s) available (Fanatec for Forza 3 and Fanatec or G25 for GT5), with all assists off (save abs)then no one is in a CREDIBLE position to say one is better than the other. A controller or pad "feel" for physics doesn't cut it.
7. Graphics - Visually speaking Forza 3 is 90% of GT5's premium cars. The thing is, ALL of Forza's cars are 90% of GT5's premium. not 80% garbage and 20% great detail (premiums). Again, its the complete package here. Form and function my friends form and function.
8. Bottom line: Race what you love. I can appreciate the GT5 passion, I once had it for the GT series. The game that wins isn't always the one that makes the most money (with that thought process Ford will always be infinitely better than Porsche) It's the one that pays fine attention to the details, the polishing of everything, the complete experience. I too am having fun shaving 0.327 seconds off my time in Forza but its not a boring chore to do so. Just humbly remember there's an inherent weakness in bashing something in order to make something else look good. It should be strong enough to stand on its own. JUST MY OPINION.