I keep running into people calling arcade games fun and simulation games,well simulation.

[ctdc67]

I know it is just somebody trying to sell their game but it gets under my skin. To each their own, maybe. But as you get older reality is more fun than pretend.

 

[Cowboy]

But as you get older reality is more fun than pretend.

I disagree with that honestly. While I have had my fun moments with simulation games like AC and PCars, I still enjoy the games you can pick up and play such as the Black Box NFS games more.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I know it is just somebody trying to sell their game but it gets under my skin. To each their own, maybe. But as you get older reality is more fun than pretend.

Not sure what point you're trying to make? Thay you have different tastes to other people? I don't get it..

 

[Tornado]

Simulators never have been and never will be the objective "Endgame" for racing games. To imply that it's to do with maturity level is equally absurd, because not everyone cares that much about cars to begin with.

 

[bluemoon_19]

I tend to find everyone wants every game to be simulation and gets angry/upset when it's not. The closest I get to simulation is forza 7 on PC I have fun in that but a little less serious racing is fun also Like the older dirt games.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I tend to find everyone wants every game to be simulation and gets angry/upset when it's not. The closest I get to simulation is forza 7 on PC I have fun in that but a little less serious racing is fun also Like the older dirt games.

I wouldn't say everyone. Its something I've noticed for sure but it isnt everyone. We also have to remenber we're on a discussion forum that leans toward simulation fans.

But I do get where you coming from.

 

[ImaRobot]

I wouldn't say everyone. Its something I've noticed for sure but it isnt everyone. We also have to remenber we're on a discussion forum that leans toward simulation fans.

But I do get where you coming from.

That, and we're also just a tiny portion of the community. We wouldn't even come close to being "everyone."

 

[eran0004]

I know it is just somebody trying to sell their game but it gets under my skin. To each their own, maybe. But as you get older reality is more fun than pretend.

Arcade games are designed to be fun. Simulation games are designed to be realistic.

You can think of it in terms of what features that doesn’t make it into the game. The arcade game would cut features that are boring (even though they are realistic) while the simulation game would cut features that are unrealistic (even though they may be fun).

 

[lancia delta hf]

Arcade games are designed to be fun. Simulation games are designed to be realistic.

You can think of it in terms of what features that doesn’t make it into the game. The arcade game would cut features that are boring (even though they are realistic) while the simulation game would cut features that are unrealistic (even though they may be fun).

Wreckfest probably does the best job of bridging sim and arcade I.e fun vs realism..

 

[ctdc67]

I disagree with that honestly. While I have had my fun moments with simulation games like AC and PCars, I still enjoy the games you can pick up and play such as the Black Box NFS games more.

Point is calling an arcade games fun while simulation games are not(not said but is the other option) is a put down. Basicly dumbed down physics are fun and I am only going after the physics aspect. I had a lot of fun playing PGR 4 but it would of been more fun with realistic physics.

 

[Morgoth_666]

You know, I've had an awful lot of fun over the years playing Arcade titles like NFS and Burnout. Hell, I quite enjoyed Excitebike and Rad Racer(played both a bit within the past few years). I've also had an awful lot of fun playing more simulation-focused titles like Gran Turismo(try telling an NFS player that GT is "Sim-Cade") and rFactor and pCARS(try telling a certain segment of AC fans that pC2 is "simulation" and the result will be similar). It's almost like nobody gets to own the word "fun."

I do see the OP's point that the constant claim that more realistic games aren't fun is rather insulting do those of us who have more fun with them. I don't agree that sims are more fun than arcade titles simply because of your age, taste is not something that can be objectively measured. Even most people who like sims don't often seem to find endurance racing against bots to be all that fun but I do.

Games you enjoy playing are fun, full stop. Apparently belittling others for enjoying different games is also fun or else people wouldn't keep doing it. I'm not accusing anyone here of doing that of course, but we all know how pervasive it is. And listening to it constantly tends to get under your skin which can urge you to "fight back" and that never ends well.

I'm also not sure what term people are going to use to replace the usage of "fun" when they are talking about slightly-less-serious physics and more bells-and-whistles gameplay features. So there's that.

 

[VXR]

The most serious sims leave me cold, whereas GT and Forza allow me to believe I'm a driving god and try out cars that actually interest me, and not the sterile world of race cars.

Driveclub and Horizon 4 shows you can be 'arcade' and have substance.

 

[ctdc67]

The type of car doesn't make a game a simulation/arcade game. The environment doesn't make a game a simulation/arcade game. If you are a good arcade racer you probably be a good simulation racer.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Arcade games are designed to be fun. Simulation games are designed to be realistic.

You can think of it in terms of what features that doesn’t make it into the game. The arcade game would cut features that are boring (even though they are realistic) while the simulation game would cut features that are unrealistic (even though they may be fun).

But the 2 aren't exclusive. Fun will mean different things to different people, some people have fun in simulations driving on cold tyres, crashing and limping back to a pitlane. I dont find that fun. Supposed arcade games can simulate racing and rules and many other things, simulation games can be fun, they can also suck, as can arcade games. Its a matter of taste and preference not a matter, X is this and Y is this.

 

[T0MMY3688]

It all depend on what the player wants, some people just like things to be simple, fun and allow them to do crazy things easily while other find fun in the realism.

Most of the time I think to enjoy sim racing, you do need to be somewhat interested on the sport and its challenge, while arcade racers is just let you have fun on the cars that you like. None of my friends care about sim racing or even semi-sim like FM7 and GTS, they just don't see the joy of doing laps and find them boring but they happily play every new NFS release because it just fun to drive and smash around. They don't like FH much either because of the lack of progression.

 

[eran0004]

But the 2 aren't exclusive. Fun will mean different things to different people, some people have fun in simulations driving on cold tyres, crashing and limping back to a pitlane. I dont find that fun. Supposed arcade games can simulate racing and rules and many other things, simulation games can be fun, they can also suck, as can arcade games. Its a matter of taste and preference not a matter, X is this and Y is this.

Indeed, they are not exclusive. The point is that features that are fun but unrealistic don’t belong in a simulator (because the focus is on realism), while features that are realistic but boring don’t belong in an arcade game (because the focus is on fun).

Features that are fun and realistic could belong to both arcade and simulator games, while features that are boring and unrealistic should ideally not be found in either genre.

And it’s not black and white, most games sit somewhere in the middle.

 

[JEverettL]

The most serious sims leave me cold, whereas GT and Forza allow me to believe I'm a driving god and try out cars that actually interest me, and not the sterile world of race cars.

Driveclub and Horizon 4 shows you can be 'arcade' and have substance.

It took me a bit to figure it out but I can completely relate to what you’re saying. I’ve played more hardcore sims and while I’ve liked them, I haven’t loved them if that makes sense. In addition to GTS, my driving game guilty pleasure at the moment is GRID.

 

[Tornado]

Point is calling an arcade games fun while simulation games are not(not said but is the other option) is a put down.

No it's not. It's a statement of their preference. People aren't obligated to say something is fun when they don't find it fun.

 

[Sage Ages]

I feel like sim players want something that's challenging more than they want something that's realistic.

 

[Dave A]

I suppose the difference is an arcade game takes whatever liberties it wants to in order to be as fun as it can be acoridng to the developers interpretation. A hardcore sim can also be fun, but they take far fewer liberities in the name of achieving fun by design becuase their priority is realism.

So it really depends on what you get your fun out of, just experiencing a game that is designed by nature to be a fun experience for it's target audience or a challenging yourself to be good in as realistic a virtual setting as possible.

You then get the in between games that aim for realism and accessibility and go for the mainstream gamepad users rather then those who have dedicated peripherals. And this is sensible as a business case becuase the hardcore sims don't tend to sell as well as the more accessible games do.

But I think people who refer to arcade games as "fun" are often referring to the fact the game is designed ground up to be fun because it'snot bound by any mantra to be realistic. That doesn't mean a simulation can't be fun as well, but it depends on what you are looking for. Many people can enjoy arcade games and sims.

 

[ctdc67]

Any game that you are competing in has a good chance of being stressful. Arcade games are mostly competion based. I can take a simulation racing game drive around a track with no interest in getting a good time.
If you are playing a racing game.

FUN is the wrong word used. They should describe them as unrealistic.
This is not a big deal to me it is just a observation.

 

[Slapped]

I think it comes down to the type of gamer.

Even back when I was a teenager (I'm 51 now) I was always more interested in games that offered a more sim like experience rather than an arcade experience.

It's horses for courses and each to their own. I would never try to convince anybody to play the stuff I'm interested in unless there was a common genre between us.

 

[Bloodytears]

I feel like sim players want something that's challenging more than they want something that's realistic.

Very true for me, arcade games kinda come and go, while simulation is always keep it going.

 

[Wolfe]

I feel like sim players want something that's challenging more than they want something that's realistic.

You might have found the words for what I've been thinking regarding the situation with PCARS3. It's like no one cares one bit about the handling model, whether it is improved and ultimately more realistic in spite of the newly-fixed variables. It gets no credit at all, now.

Like you say, it's as if the challenge of having to manage these details, or features like pitstops, counts for more than how effectively the game utilizes them or how realistic its handling really is.

 

[Silver Arrows]

This thread truly is emblematic of the simulation all day every day brain worms that have taken ahold of this site's users over the years, especially as the A/AA publisher had collapsed into dust, and the arcade racing genre has subsequently dried up with indie racing games being unable to pick up the slack.

Just utterly cringeworthy. Good lord.

 

[T0MMY3688]

Any game that you are competing in has a good chance of being stressful. Arcade games are mostly competion based. I can take a simulation racing game drive around a track with no interest in getting a good time.
If you are playing a racing game.

FUN is the wrong word used. They should describe them as unrealistic.
This is not a big deal to me it is just a observation.

There is also “fun” in unrealistic elements, it just depend on what is the player prefer. Realism can be fun and wildly unrealistic arcade racers can be fun too. There is really no wrong word if both can be found enjoyable by different people.

Like Burnout, Blur and Split Seconds are games that are very unrealistic but they are great fun too, they are games build around with these unrealistic mechanics and provide game experience that you don’t find in any place. While sim is still fun through its realistic experience and have fun driving cars that you are unlikely to touch in real life.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I dont find sim racers fun, I find them extremely enjoyable, enthralling. Not quite the same thing as fun. I no longer find arcade racers fun though. Found DR2 enjoyable rather than fun. "Wreckfest" and above all "Table Top racers" now that what I found fun. If you've got a bunch of mates pick the game up.

 

[Tristan H]

I enjoy deep, learnable physics and detailed force feedback with interesting and varied driving experiences.

Sadly most "sims" are just circuit racing or rally, and most arcade racers don't bother with good physics and FFB. Wreckfest is a good example of good physics and FFB in a different driving experience to the usual "sim".

 

[Wolfe]

@Tristan H -- I sincerely hope for a day when a developer will leapfrog Forza Horizon and run with the idea of a hardcore open world driving and street racing simulator. It seems like an obvious end goal. Circuit racing has had an effective monopoly on hardcore realism for too long.

(What I would personally consider truly proper rally sims are too far and between by comparison. More titles like Sébastien Loeb Rally Evo would be welcome.)

 

[Tristan H]

@Tristan H -- I sincerely hope for a day when a developer will leapfrog Forza Horizon and run with the idea of a hardcore open world driving and street racing simulator. It seems like an obvious end goal. Circuit racing has had an effective monopoly on hardcore realism for too long.

(What I would personally consider truly proper rally sims are too far and between by comparison. More titles like Sébastien Loeb Rally Evo would be welcome.)

Yeah, I would like a game like that. A game about test driving

It seems like there would be a market for it too, with the success of Euro Truck Simulator and big Assetto Corsa mods.