Im fed up with the dumb AI

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Luckily there's this thread, because it's impossible to find a negative thread about the AI around here. Or any negative thread for that matter.

Sarcasm duly noted!
 
For what's it worth...

Get yourself an overpowered car that can toy with the AI. Get directly besides one of the AI cars, while heading down a straight. Make sure you stay there a while so they can have a good, long hard look at you, then get ahead a little. Keep the inside line while approaching the corner and, so far, the AI moved in on me more often then not, slamming into the outside rear quarter of my car.
That's not late breaking into the corner or cutting in front of the AI, it's just being faster on the straight and taking the inside line on the corner.

Granted, this isn't something I'm doing during a race, I just messed around a little. Still, it shows that the AI has little to no consideration for the players car - at least not in the lower tiers of races.

BULL. This has happened to me once or twice. MAYBE.
 
Its really not so much that the AI hates you (its too stupid to do that), it just wants to follow the line at all cost like a rookie on a sim racer. As long as you stay off the line, the AI wouldn't touch you, but the moment you cut in front and slow down, then the bumping starts.
 
Its really not so much that the AI hates you (its too stupid to do that), it just wants to follow the line at all cost like a rookie on a sim racer. As long as you stay off the line, the AI wouldn't touch you, but the moment you cut in front and slow down, then the bumping starts.

You must not have done any actual RACES yet. Do yourself a favor, get out of the license tests where the AI driving line is totally SCRIPTED. and play the actual AI.
 
BULL. This has happened to me once or twice. MAYBE.

Good for you then. As I said, I did this specifically to see what happens. How often did you try to actually replicate the situation, I wonder?

Okay, admittedly, 'more often than not' is an exaggeration, it was like four out of ten times, but that's still plenty, if you're asking me.
 
Its really not so much that the AI hates you (its too stupid to do that), it just wants to follow the line at all cost like a rookie on a sim racer. As long as you stay off the line, the AI wouldn't touch you, but the moment you cut in front and slow down, then the bumping starts.

I don't really the follow the racing line but do out-in turning so when I do come over it, they pit me.
It is worse & better on a wheel because you feel something on your side and think "Oh no....not again" and also"Im not gonna let you"

They are very annoying with their pitting manouvers........ I, like the OP, have a short fuse. Instead of snapping my £155 wheel, I got him back, ona turn when Im not leading and they are blocking, I usually draw alongside for the straight......But not this time... I used is car as a shield when I hit him, straight into the sand, then a wall. That is the better way of doing it :)
 
Personally I don't understand AI complaints.

Sometimes they are a problem, but who cares, you do what you have to do to win.

Out-run, out-brake, out-drive, and pass them in clean fashion if possible and beat them.

If they do not co-operate in that vein, then you use the chrome horn, eight tires, or other means if necessary to coerce their co-operation.

Whats the freakin problem?

Trust me you will have similar problems in a real race too.
 
Racing the AI on Pro level in arcade mode with Super GT cars, on a custom track I made, they could be faster, but I don't see anything here that doesn't look out of place with human drivers online in any game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQuWWJg_xYw
[YOUTUBEHD]DQuWWJg_xYw[/YOUTUBEHD]
 
You must not have done any actual RACES yet. Do yourself a favor, get out of the license tests where the AI driving line is totally SCRIPTED. and play the actual AI.

Sigh...really? you gotta resort to that?

It happens ALL the time on the oval tracks. You will be on a straight, they will draft, and instead of passing around...they just run right into your tail.
 
Besides, if someone has to drive in a certain way for the AI to work, than it's not a good AI, period.
Absolutely, AI is slowly becoming one of the biggest problem of the game for me, OK I'm not niki lauda but I'm not even such a noob, in some races I have to restar 3 or 4 times in a row because I get pitted....
Take for example the french cars beginner race, I raced with the stock berlinette so I was as fast as the others and it has been a nightmare to keep the other berlinettes and the alpines behind me without getting pitted.... come on, if you're not a pro you have to get a car with 50hp more than the others to be safe.... take for example f1 2010, the AI is very good in that game, they try to avoid you as much as possible, and if you spin in the middle of the track they brake realistically, not like in gt5 that they ram in your car until they pass thru....
 
This video explains how fake GT5's AI is:



Who wants to defend the AI now?
 
The AI is not fast enough. Watching my B-spec driver is enough to turn away in disgust at how horrible the AI is programmed.

I watched in amazement today as my B-spec driver went into a turn on the London track too fast and hit the wall, then proceeded to have a complete meltdown trying to get turned around and back on track. For over 30-60 seconds he kept reversing too fast, then hitting the other wall. Twice he straighten out and point his car down the course backwards, realized the error, then hit the wall turning back around again. I went from 2nd to last on the last lap!
 
This video explains how fake GT5's AI is:



Who wants to defend the AI now?
Me! I want to defend the AI!
yeh he stopped right at the beginning of a turn. In real life cars wouldn't be able to avoid a collision either.

And how about this? What can you tell about the AI from this video?



A 10 seconds comparison of two completely different tracks and the whole game has been analyzed, right?
 
Nice. This proves nothing when its been seen already the AI tries to avoid you. I've seen crashes in real races just like that one. You tube has hundreds of real race crashed like that.
 
I dont think the people defending the AI have done the NASCAR races yet. AI on oval tracks is terrible. You can be in 1st driving normally and they will come up behind you going 30 mph faster because of the draft and just slam into you. If they are off center and hit a corner of your car......... well you spin and end up in last.
 
Strange, I have almost never been taken out by AI and others on other forums are fine aswell, think there must be a huge lack of race craft in this forum.

I have however got fed up with the complete lack of pace of the AI,
1. Braking 50-100 meters too early
2. The way they brake and drop a gear in a corner/sweep that should be flat.
3. Braking half the braking zone then accelerating then braking again onto the apex then nailing it for the exit then getting out of the throttle before finally nailing it again, rinse repeat per corner.

There was more competent AI in GP2, that was made in 96. GT5 P had faster AI, I cant remember any GT being this bad.

This is what I noticed. I was swearing at the AI in license test A10 last night. They were breaking way to early so I'd ram into the ass end of them repeatedly. If I somehow avoided them and got inside they'd ram into the side of me repeatedly like I wasn't there. I'm use to this as GT5P was exactly the same, however, now I get repeatedly DQ'd for the AI's stupid driving. I'm use to having to play bumper cars with the AI as it's just about impossible not too. The combination of the terrible AI and the DQ system is infuriating.
 
Me! I want to defend the AI!
yeh he stopped right at the beginning of a turn. In real life cars wouldn't be able to avoid a collision either.

And how about this? What can you tell about the AI from this video?



A 10 seconds comparison of two completely different tracks and the whole game has been analyzed, right?


Nope but yes he avoids there but in the video before on Eiger, if you analyse 0:05 correctly, the AI driver is out of the driving line then swerves back in, would you do that it you saw someone "stuck" there? Okay they avoided that time but maybe it is the 2 faces of the AI

@LaBounti Yes but in those crashes won't they try and swerve away?
 
This video explains how fake GT5's AI is:



Who wants to defend the AI now?

Well the car in gt5 is "parked" just after the little jump in eiger track, so it's quite diffcult to avoid a car in that spot, here's a more fair video, even if the cars in the video are not zondas, so driving so slow is simplier

 
Nope but yes he avoids there but in the video before on Eiger, if you analyse 0:05 correctly, the AI driver is out of the driving line then swerves back in, would you do that it you saw someone "stuck" there? Okay they avoided that time but maybe it is the 2 faces of the AI

Imagine in real life, you were trying to go into a corner and all of a sudden a car stands still right in the braking zone of a turn or where cars have to turn in. Whatever you do, you'd be in trouble.

Perhaps you're right they should try to avoid (and miss their turn), although that'd be the wrong strategy on a mountain track. ;) I hardly think these "standing still"-experiments are relevant though. Let alone a comparison on two different tracks.
 
Well the car in gt5 is "parked" just after the little jump in eiger track, so it's quite diffcult to avoid a car in that spot, here's a more fair video, even if the cars in the video are not zondas, so driving so slow is simplier



Okay I accept that the AI have eyes (yes!) but what about the rear end slamming?
/no sarcasm
 
Okay I accept that the AI have eyes (yes!) but what about the rear end slamming?
/no sarcasm
nothing to say about that, the rear slamming (ahem.... :D) and the pitting maneuver are the biggest flaws of the AI and I don't think so much people will deny...
 
The AI definitely needs some collision avoidance coded in, it's really shocking how bad they are.

They can't break either making every race trivial as you can just outbreak them into every corner.

Useless AI is one of my top 3 pet peeves with the game.
 
lol I've spent the past 45 minutes on the Extreme NASCAR series, lap 10, pitted EVERY SINGLE TIME

soooooooooo much fun...
 
I agree that they are awful about hitting you from the back or slamming into the side of you. On several of the special challenges (kart, Top Gear, and Nascar) there have been numerous situations where I've clearly made a pass, then on the following corner I take the inside line, and the AI car will smash into my rear quarter panel, spinning me out. Are you kidding me?!

I've been toying with the idea of splicing a bunch of replays together of the worst AI offenses, and uploading them to YouTube. Ought to get a few hits lol.
 
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Yeah I got PIT a few times too... Mostly on the NASCAR Special Event where you have to overtake all of them. Bastards.

Oh well, I'd do the same so...
 
I agree that they are awful about hitting you from the back or slamming into the side of you. On several of the special challenges (kart, Top Gear, and Nascar) there have been numerous situations where I've clearly made a pass, then on the following corner I take the inside line, and the AI car will smash into my rear quarter panel, spinning me out. Are you kidding me?!

I've been toying with the idea of splicing a bunch of replays together of the worst AI offenses, and uploading them to YouTube. Ought to get a few hits lol.

What happens to me a lot too is when I pass an AI car, I keep going and all of a sudden my DFGT wheel starts pulling to one side for no good reason, only for me to find out that the AI car is driving 'glued' to my car, gently pushing one of the rear quarter panels as long as it takes for me to start spinning out. Unless I find some way to get rid of him before it's too late.

Absolutely crazy. No real driver would do that. Ever.
 
My observations:

The AI can avoid you. The problem is that it often chooses not to.

I think, guessing from what goes on in B spec, that it corresponds to the "heat" of the other drivers. When they get too far in the red (which will be either when you're carving through the field or ahead) then they don't manage to avoid you.

This would be fine if it was implemented the same way as Forza, F1 2010, etc. - where the AI car will hit you, but panic and jam on the brakes when it does so. However it's not. The "not managing to avoid the player" situation is implemented as "completely ignore the existence of the player". That's where I think the PIT comes from as once the AI hits you it will not let up on the throttle, at all. Other games' AIs will still hit you but because they back off it takes a lot more for that to result in a spin.

This would be alright were it not also for the drafting system. The draft is stupidly overpowered - two AI cars running together can easily add 50% to the normal top speed of their vehicles. (There also seems to be either rubberbanding or a bug whereby an AI car can be stuck with the maximum drafting bonus, even if it's on its own, which results in one car zooming away form the field at ridiculous pace.)

The drafting system is a big problem here because it ends up with AI cars that are at maximum heat (i.e. highly likely to make mistakes and cause collisions) coming up behind the player, going a lot faster than the player's car where the broken draft system is giving them an unrealistic performance boost. You get an AI car hitting the back of you with a 30mph speed difference, and then because they're in "have collisions" mode they will not back off at all, which unless you're very lucky is going to result in you having a spin.

Interestingly, at least for me it's got a bit better in the later races because I'm not able to overtake my way through the field as quickly, thus not increasing the stress level of the AI as much. Once I do get ahead though they start seeing red again, and stop avoiding me.

Fixing it would, IMO, be pretty simple:

  • Tone the drafting down to realistic levels. What's there doesn't belong from a simulation perspective, and it also doesn't belong from a (modern) gameplay perspective.
  • Make the AI back off when it has a collision, regardless of heat level, rather than trying to power through if it's angry enough.

The first would fix the AI coming from nowhere and ramming you, and the second would fix every crash resulting in a spin. The latter one would need some new code, but the first one in any sensible implementation ought to be nothing more than a parameter/config file change. (Although it may be a little more complicated than that if reducing the drafting bonus would also end up with some off the Jeff Gordon events becoming a lot more difficult.)
 
Toying with the AI in FM3 is fun, they will take them selves out of a race to avoid you. Even on the final stretch of a race. It seems the AI in Fm3 has less to fight for, where in GT5 on the last lap its just chaos to the finish line. I love when the AI spins out after fighting too hard.
 
AI in GT5 it somewhat realistic, in a brutal way. Not giving racing room in real life will usually result in contact plus a penalty for that driver. Really, in a lot of cases where people are having contact with AI cars it's because people aren't driving fairly and are making kamikaze moves expecting the AI to simply move out of the way, or spear away from the user at the slightest contact. Many clean, realistic moves are greeted with restrained movement away from the player by the AI. I think a lot of issues stem from people trying to win every race without fail in order to plough through the game, and if they aren't in first at the first or last corners they start to get desperate. Not winning is a reality for every driver, its not an excuse to start smashing through the field...


I'm not saying the AI isn't flawed - it obviously is, and should be made to relinquish to the player more often to be more enjoyable (this is a game, after all) - but the idea that other drivers will simply get out of your way when you brake super-late into a corner is one that simply won't usually happen in real life - you'll just end up taking someone out and getting penalised. It would be nice if AI actually tried to prevent excessive contact though - moving away after bumping rather than ploughing through...

Also, AI also still love to sit on the racing line - watching B-spec, it seems that every second they move off the racing line there is a simple algorithm built in to see when they can move back to it.

Something like "Move towards racing line. Is a car detected on the racing line? if no, occupy racing line. If yes, wait 1 second. Repeat." Every overtake is accompanied by this slight weave back towards the racing line to see when they can get back there.... bloody annoying.
 
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