Is anybody thinking about making the switch

[Scaff]

I understand where you are coming from. My main contention however, is that no matter how realistic physics get, control of the game will still be lacking.

Say you test the physics engine parameters of a game. Input A command, B happens. Turn 32 degrees under heavy breaking, Z happens. If all the parameters match a real car 100%, what's the point? Your not in a real car, so why should your data match that of a real car?

Take oversteer for example. In a real car, you can almost predict when it's coming and counter-steer accordingly. In a game however, it never feels quite so intuitive.

I don't believe anything I've posted disagrees with what you have said here, however I was not the one who said that "Unless you are sitting in a real car, on a real track, with real feedback, the quality of the physics is irrelevant."

If that is true then why both with sims?

The issue I have with the post you made is it comes across as incredibly narrow in its view, simply because true reality on a sim is almost impossible to achieve (however 7 post shakers comes very close) does not means its not worth trying to find a good balance.

A point on that scale from 0 (say Burnout) to 100 (7 post shaker the closest you can get to simulating the real thing) at which a console sim can sit and still be accessible.

Now every point on the scale above physics are being modeled, so regardless of the lack of physical input and forces, unless you are happy to just play Burnout then the quality of the physics is very relevant.


Scaff

 

[machschnel]

Scaff

I agree with the majority of what you say. I was just trying to get across to the original person I responded to that playing with assists on or without a steering wheel has a lot less bearing on your "real world" driving skills then he/she seemed to think.

Nothing against what your'e saying, just trying to prove a point.

 

[VXR]

I actually spent some time on the demo pod today with GT5 and after setting it to MT and entering a race to find that someone had botched the custom controls and left the game with no gear change buttons[!] - glad I'm not paying the engine refurb on a turbo'd Type-R sat in second all way around Deep Valley - I tried it on sports soft tyres, with ABS set to 5. Whilst the car still seemed a little hesitant to bring its nose closer to the apex on those tyres, I definitely felt for the first time it's an experience I'd enjoy if I bought it, which I'm still waiting to do. Hopefully take advantage of a post-Xmas offer.

 

[88mphSlayer]

I agree with most of this, but they can co exist for me lol. I don't have a wheel for GT5 and probably wont invest in one any time soon. I am looking forward to and hoping PD gives us more meat for offline play because right now its not really grabbing me. I still enjoy buying a random car on Forza and seeing what I can turn it into.

I will say this about not owning a wheel, I don't care what magic tricks are going on behind the scenes in FM3 but that game feels so darn good with the Xbox controller.

Well the truth of the matter is even people who own a wheel don't like using it all the time. I only use my wheel with GT5 half the time because sometimes I don't want to lug my wheel and stand out just for a quick racing session. On top of that is just how chaotic online racing can be and how that negates any advantage to using a wheel beyond simply "immersion".

So there are advantages and disadvantages to having a wheel setup; I think the average gamer would appreciate Forza 3 more though just because it's cheaper to enjoy.

 

[RC45]

Well the truth of the matter is even people who own a wheel don't like using it all the time. I only use my wheel with GT5 half the time because sometimes I don't want to lug my wheel and stand out just for a quick racing session. On top of that is just how chaotic online racing can be and how that negates any advantage to using a wheel beyond simply "immersion".

So there are advantages and disadvantages to having a wheel setup; I think the average gamer would appreciate Forza 3 more though just because it's cheaper to enjoy.

Dont speak for all wheel owners. I have never bothered playing GT3, GT4 or GT5x without a wheel.

I bought that stupid Micro$haft wireless wheel with FM3 - and that is th eonly reason why I started using the controller for FM3, the M$ wheel sucks that badly. Thsi is why even though I kept buying the content for FM3 I stopped playing seriously and went into painting mode until I decided buy the GT2 wheel and give it a try again.

I used a Fanatec FFB with FM2 on the XBox. Never bothered with the controller.

I would say some wheel owners dont use them all the time, but then again some also only use the wheel.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

This is actually not technically true. The 360 actually only supports a NATIVE output of 720p, but through firmware updates, has gained to ability to UPSCALE to 1080p. Now, anyone who knows anything about home theater equipment will tell you that there is a huge difference in quality between a scaled HD image and a native HD image.

Without going into a long, boring, technical explanation, the "lamen's terms" explanation is this: a scaled image uses software that analyzes a pixel's surrounding environment and tries to "fill in the blanks." A native image displays true 1:1 mapping of each pixel, creating a sharper, cleaner image. Here's a link to a video that shows a true 1920x1080p image file on both systems, and you can clearly see the difference.

Skip to the 4 minute mark to see the back to back comparisons and you'll save yourself a lot of boring and long-winded fanboyism from the dumbass that made the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MakQpMSKP7I

To be totally honest, though, I still think the 360 is a better overall system. The online infrastructure is hands-down better, with a more developed community, better features (like video streaming for movie rentals, the ability to change your gamertag, cross game voice chat, the list just goes on and on and on).

Now, don't get me wrong, I like having a PS3 for the blu-ray player and exclusive titles (like uncharted, GOW, metal gear, GT, etc), but when multiplatform games come out, 9 times out of 10 - I'm getting it for the 360. Between bad ports (though that's the fault of the developers, not the system) and the online system leaving much to be desired, it's just no contest. It is what it is...

WRONG, lol. It is TRUE there have been native 1080p games for years. It's the PS3 that struggles with 1080p I have games that won't even scale on PS3, LOL

Don't worry about "lamen's terms" my IQ was tested at 160 so please explain in technical detail how the 360 can't render natively in 1920x1080 with its ATi GPU?

 

[ShylockHolmes]

Hate to burst your bubble mate, but I've been racing Formula Ford for the past 3 years and in my humble opinion, sims (even iRacing) are nothing like driving a car. It's not just me though, a lot of friends that race higher powered cars have come to the same conclusion.

It matters little how many physics related calculations a sim performs per second or how good the physics engine is. Unless you are sitting in a real car, on a real track, with real feedback, the quality of the physics is irrelevant.

At best, sims have helped me remember a few tracks, and honestly, even the F1 Team Simulators are only used for the same reason.

That's why I don't care if Forza auto-corrects steering, or if I'm at a mates house who doesn't have a steering wheel or if the physics in F1 2010 are nothing like what an open wheel car feels like.

I'd love to see some of the "sim-elitists" among us miss their braking marker at turn 1, at over 230km in real lifeand see how well your GT5 experience has prepared you.

Unless you a in a real car, its a game, always will be. Treat it accordingly.

My point is the wheel does EXACTLY what you tell it in terms of moving the wheels and the gamepad doesn't. I never said anything other than that. Everything else you rambled on about was of your own accord. I've driven 650HP cars, so please try and burst my bubble 👎

 

[machschnel]

My point is the wheel does EXACTLY what you tell it in terms of moving the wheels and the gamepad doesn't. I never said anything other than that. Everything else you rambled on about was of your own accord. I've driven 650HP cars, so please try and burst my bubble 👎

Driven? What about raced? Vast difference...

But keen insight there - a gamepad doesn't feel like a wheel. I have to concur.

And my "rambling" was in regards to the fact you obviously think pretty highly of yourself because you don't use aids, use a steering wheel etc. I was just letting you know, no one cares.

 

[FyreandIce]

WRONG, lol. It is TRUE there have been native 1080p games for years. It's the PS3 that struggles with 1080p I have games that won't even scale on PS3, LOL

Don't worry about "lamen's terms" my IQ was tested at 160 so please explain in technical detail how the 360 can't render natively in 1920x1080 with its ATi GPU?

Ugh, for such a bright cookie you're pretty dull.

I honestly cannot think of one Xbox 360 game that is natively 1080p and the reason why the PS3 seems to struggle with upscaling is because it upscales with software where as the Xbox 360 has a hardware upscaler.

 

[88mphSlayer]

Dont speak for all wheel owners. I have never bothered playing GT3, GT4 or GT5x without a wheel.

I bought that stupid Micro$haft wireless wheel with FM3 - and that is th eonly reason why I started using the controller for FM3, the M$ wheel sucks that badly. Thsi is why even though I kept buying the content for FM3 I stopped playing seriously and went into painting mode until I decided buy the GT2 wheel and give it a try again.

I used a Fanatec FFB with FM2 on the XBox. Never bothered with the controller.

I would say some wheel owners dont use them all the time, but then again some also only use the wheel.

Sure, maybe I should've re-worded my statement to not include everybody. I think the point though is that not everybody gets the best possible experience out of a game with so many optional ways to play. For a lot of people wheels just aren't an option, and for some like me having a permanent wheel setup also isn't an option. Personally I even use a controller with super-sims like rFactor sometimes because my PC isn't in a place convenient for my wheel, but it doesn't bother me too much.

When i've got an open weekend though I will drag the wheel out for an all-day event.