Is anyone else disappointed with GT5?

[Sele1981]

Agreed with most of you guys and I´m also frustrated about GT5. What went wrong with GT5? We really need serious answers!

Do Kaz really think his game is perfect? Or does he know about his faults?

This game is not even 50% finished. Such simple and poor things are missing, that is unbelievable! One very poor and simple thing, we´ve got 1000 cars, how the hell should I know wich car I already got??? Why the hell have I got to go back all the menus to check if I already got that car that showed up in the used dealership? I´m not stupid but I can´t remember all 400 cars I already bought.

- Why is it that annoying to buy an car? There are more than 1000 cars in the game and it nearly takes 1 minute to buy 1 car!

- Why did they throw all the good things from GT5P? PP points, penalty system for hitting other cars, wall riding and corner cutting.

- What in the hell is the sense of damage? Without any mechanical damage (offline) it absolutely makes no sense. Why did they even implement it then?

-The "career" mode in GT5P was great and challenging! I remember the 1 lap F40 event. It took me many tries...

- What is the sense of A-Spec? Where is the challenge? What is this game about?

- What is the sense of online playing without any driving profile, stats, wins, skills.

- Where are the options for building GT-clubs

- What was the windtunnel about?

- Why the hell is there no option to save the endurance races? Did Kaz really think that most of the GT players will do an complete 24H race?

There are much more things wich are annoying... The sad thing is, they made a lot of sales, a lot of money with GT5... So maybe they don´t care anymore about the game...

There is hope that Shift II will make things better...

 

[Lux_Lemur]

No.

 

[Destinkeys]

Thing is, physics aren't everything. They're incredible in GT5 and while that's one of the most important aspects of game (to me, at least), it's not the only one that counts...

I'm a burger guy, but if I have to decide between two restaurant...

Restaurant A: Awesome burger, bad fries, bad chicken wings, bad drink.
Restaurant B: Good burger, good fries, good chicken wings, good drink.

I'll take Restaurant B, thanks

If what this article pans out into reality (it's a long one, but try to get through it all), it looks like it is is going to be

Restaurant B: Awesome burger awesome fries, awesome chicken wings and awesome drink...

http://www.needforspeed.com/post/shift-2-unleashed-subject-physics?source=shift2

That's a lot to digest, but try to make it to the last bite. If this pans out, it is going to choke PD

 

[Spacegoat]

Well... Maybe he just picked a random employee and... Well, this is the conversation I could imagine:

Kaz: "Hey, random shirt guy over there!"
Ken: "Mr. Kazunori, the name's Kenshin, I've been working with you since - "
Kaz: "Yeah, whatever, we need more content for GT5. Do something about it!"
Ken: "Mr. Kazunori, I don't really have an idea about what to - "
Kaz: "You have to, we've got to get the game out of the door pretty darn soon!"
Ken: "But Mr. Kaz - "
Kaz: "That's the spirit! If you need me, I'm at the track, racing!" *turns cell phone off, leaves office*

I have a feeling that this conversation actually happened.

 

[Luminis]

If what this article pans out into reality (it's a long one, but try to get through it all), it looks like it is is going to be

Restaurant B: Awesome burger awesome fries, awesome chicken wings and awesome drink...

http://www.needforspeed.com/post/shift-2-unleashed-subject-physics?source=shift2

That's a lot to digest, but try to make it to the last bite. If this pans out, it is going to choke PD

Yeah, read it on speedhunters and was like
Well, I can't bring myself to have that much faith in Shift 2... But, there's one thing I know:
Speedhunters definitely helps them to get an understanding of what car culture is like, and what the people who're involved with it want.

Either way, I doubt anyone's ever going to choke GT/PD in the near future... GT will probably sell based on its name alone, I think. GT6 will at least, I think.

If that doesn't deliver, though...

 

[Devedander]

Yeah, read it on speedhunters and was like
Well, I can't bring myself to have that much faith in Shift 2... But, there's one thing I know:
Speedhunters definitely helps them to get an understanding of what car culture is like, and what the people who're involved with it want.

Either way, I doubt anyone's ever going to choke GT/PD in the near future... GT will probably sell based on its name alone, I think. GT6 will at least, I think.

If that doesn't deliver, though...

has been lovingly recreated for you.

The term lovingly recreated has really left a sour taste in my mouth after GT5's standards....

It is not some game producer's "idea" of how a car should handle.

That line sounds very promising but then later on they talk about how much they apparently got wrong and how it had to be fixed when real world drivers gave input... on one hand it's great they got input from real drivers but on the other hand, if they need to "fix" so much, maybe they really haven't nailed the whole perfect recreation thing yet...

We later discovered that the shock bumpstops of all the high end race cars in SHIFT2 needed some adjustments. It was Tommy that suggested these changes.

Like that...

He also pointed out that we needed to raise up the shift knob in the GT-R's cockpit. It wasn't in quite the right position.

Another odd detail... I guess this means interiors are done by artists by hand and not by some kind of 3D computer plan or laser scan or anything...

Longer beams would be needed to get around the Nurburgring Nordeschleife at night. He thought that the trees, guardrails and signs were lighting up in a realistic fashion but the tarmac itself was not lighting up enough. You just couldn't see where you were going enough in the dead of night on the very remote tracks.

Let's hope headlights are done right here... and by right I don't even mean "technically this is exactly how they would work in real life" I mean "they provide the same level of relative illumination as they would in real life" after all, IRL my eye shave much higher range than my TV does and I am probably in a dark car rather than a lit living room so my nightvision isn't compromised... games should compensate for that kind of thing...

Either way I am excited and hope EA do it right... I actually had a lot of fun with Shift1 so I hope Shift 2 steps it up even if it doesn't turn out to be the uber answer to sim racing.

Oh and Dbox support... sweet... now Dbox - make a somewhat affordable chair please!

 

[Luminis]

That line sounds very promising but then later on they talk about how much they apparently got wrong and how it had to be fixed when real world drivers gave input... on one hand it's great they got input from real drivers but on the other hand, if they need to "fix" so much, maybe they really haven't nailed the whole perfect recreation thing yet...

Well, I don't really think there's much to be added and I agree with most of what you wrote.
One thing though: I think that that's the best they could do.

Create a physics engine that works with the real data they can get from a car; then fix it until it feels right with, like, 10 or 15 cars. If they transfer what they learned from those cars properly, it might turn out decent.

Personally, I think getting feedback from the guys who drive those cars for a living is the way to go 👍

 

[zqxwjv]

"The list just go on. Make no mistake, I do enjoy the game, and if it had taken 3/4 years to be released, i wouldn't be complaining, but after 6 years and the absolutely brilliant GT4, come on PD, where is it, where is that finishing touch that has made each of the previous GT's such a massive hit. A game that has taken this long to develop, should be polished to perfection, I'm afraid GT5 is nowhere near that."

Well said. Ditto.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Well, I don't really think there's much to be added and I agree with most of what you wrote.
One thing though: I think that that's the best they could do.

Create a physics engine that works with the real data they can get from a car; then fix it until it feels right with, like, 10 or 15 cars. If they transfer what they learned from those cars properly, it might turn out decent.

Personally, I think getting feedback from the guys who drive those cars for a living is the way to go 👍

I was hyped up for Shift 1 but then I played the demo and there was just too much arcadeness to it. I hated the driving line, the controls, how every car pretty much drifted every corner, the cockpit view shakiness etc. I hope they make this one actually a sim this time, not that hybrid BS.

 

[Luminis]

I was hyped up for Shift 1 but then I played the demo and there was just too much arcadeness to it. I hated the driving line, the controls, how every car pretty much drifted every corner, the cockpit view shakiness etc. I hope they make this one actually a sim this time, not that hybrid BS.

That's why I don't have much faith in Shift 2 yet. Appearently, Slightly Mad Studios got a little more freedom, but... Well, we'll see how it pans out.

 

[Zer0]

http://eu.gran-turismo.com/gb/dev_info/

1 - Sony Corporation (Howard Stringer - Chairman, CEO and President)
1.1 - SCEI (Kazuo Hirai - President and Group CEO)
1.1.1 - Polyphony Digital (Kazunori Yamauchi - SCEI senior vice president)

This is why I always think it's ridiculous when people blame Sony for pressuring poor Kaz/PD...

Sony OWNS PD and Kaz is CEO of PD and VP of Sony Computer Entertainment...

To say Sony pressured Kaz is like saying the White House pressured the President... they are operationally the same thing!

That is the same as saying that Arnold as a Governor of California had the same operational level as the President Obama.

 

[Devedander]

1 - Sony Corporation (Howard Stringer - Chairman, CEO and President)
1.1 - SCEI (Kazuo Hirai - President and Group CEO)
1.1.1 - Polyphony Digital (Kazunori Yamauchi - SCEI senior vice president)


That is the same as saying that Arnold as a Governor of California had the same operational level as the President Obama.

Except that we are dealing with a product that pretty much is definied by SCEI and is only a part of Sony Corporation.

If you want to use an Arnold vs Obama analogy the closest I could come up with would be if we were talking about something like parking ticket prices for San Francisco or something.

Sure Obama sits way higher up, but it's highly unlikely he is directly involved with operating decisions at the level of GT5. This means that in reality, it's Arnolds decision regardless of the fact he could technically be overruled or overpowered by Obama.

In the same way, sure Kaz is not the top of all of Sony, but he is the top of the part of Sony that is acting on or concerned with a single game release for the video game portion of their entertainment business.

So for all intents and purposes Kaz is pretty much top of the heap when it comes to things like decisions about relase dates for a video game.

 

[ldmj808]

It gets fun at the start then gets boringg

 

[Tornado]

The only influence/involvement that non-SCE Sony would have had in GT5 would be getting 3D into the game, assuming it wasn't something that PD wanted in the game in the first place.

 

[Tesla]

I'm not disappointed really. It's just saddening to see, after nobody my age or under knew what Gran Turismo was before Number 5, that they think this what it's always been like. That, and after this debacle, we may see PD learning from mistakes in GT5 and implementing solutions in GT6, and nobody will buy it because of the quality (or lack thereof) of GT5.

 

[Sele1981]

http://www.needforspeed.com/post/shift-2-unleashed-subject-physics?source=shift2

The comments are funny... "We need an 2 split screen" shows that the targeted group wants an arcade racer, so Shift 2 can´t be an dry poor Sim-racer. Again there is a line between sim elements and arcade physics I think...

For example, look at Supercar Challenge, the physics were outstanding, the braking was right, physicswise everything was great but most casual gamers prefers burnout physics. Supercar Challenge missed because of the graphics I think. It looked more like an better PS2 game. I played it last week and after GT5, the 30 fps from SCC was horrible.

Anyway I get my hopes up for Shift II because really, the A-Spec in GT5 is a big myth. I don´t get it, where is the challenge?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

To think Kaz's VP status is a free roam license, granting great individual leeway at PD, is a misinterpretation IMO.

If anything I believe its more of a restraint.

Kaz is a company man now and must do whats decided is best for the company.
Although he probably has little to say about what that is.

This, added with the fact that during the last, almost two years Sony Corp was bleeding, at the rate of a about a billion a quarter, yields I believe a formula for less say-so, not more.

Edit : Under this circumstance, almost universally, all divisions are called upon to do more with less.

The last factor is GT5, the game itself. While it has some good points, its not even close to the quantity or quality of previous offerings from PD.

This inconsistency is what begs for another influence.
But considering Sony's situation it seems to fit perfectly with what I would expect.

Its possible this game is all Kaz's doing and with the VP title he certainly is culpable.
But when you try to to reconcile these factors, this is the only way it appears to add up.

 

[Vinura]

i like the game, i wouldn't say disappointed, but after 5-6 years of waiting i was a little let down.

the first downer was the interface. what was wrong with the gt4 interface? i liked it it was very simple, and spread out.

secondly, was the poor choice of aftermarket wheels, and no big brakes, why PD?????

thirdly was the even poorer choice for premium cars, cmon man, suzuki cappucino but no ae86? no s14? no supra?

50 skylines but no GTR Z-tune?

The tracks look amazing, but theres so few of them, and they seemed to beef up the list to make it look big by having the track and its reverse seperate on the list.

 

[Zer0]

Except that we are dealing with a product that pretty much is definied by SCEI and is only a part of Sony Corporation.

If you want to use an Arnold vs Obama analogy the closest I could come up with would be if we were talking about something like parking ticket prices for San Francisco or something.

Sure Obama sits way higher up, but it's highly unlikely he is directly involved with operating decisions at the level of GT5. This means that in reality, it's Arnolds decision regardless of the fact he could technically be overruled or overpowered by Obama.

In the same way, sure Kaz is not the top of all of Sony, but he is the top of the part of Sony that is acting on or concerned with a single game release for the video game portion of their entertainment business.

So for all intents and purposes Kaz is pretty much top of the heap when it comes to things like decisions about relase dates for a video game.

- There is pressure from Sony to deliver a high quality game, and the team at Polyphony Digital understand the implications of their work – it has potential to move many PlayStation 3 consoles for the company.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5s-weather-conditions-still-in-limbo/

 

[vrooom]

Just a tiny tiny detail that shows (in my opinion) the general lack of care of PD when they were making GT5.

Double Shadows

(taken from this thread)

I didn't knew that Nurburgring was in a planet with two suns!

Sure the car is modeled better than any other game, the scenery looks photorealistic but why nobody at PD bothered to delete the pre-baked fake-shadow under the car. They are not needed since they have a dynamic shadow system, they destroy the suspension of disbelief and you could argue that if they deleted these pre-baked shadows from all 16-cars on the grid they could save processing power (admittedly not that much)!

So back on topic, I am disappointed with GT5 because apparently there was zero quality assurance, internal bug-testing and also bad code optimization at PD! 👎

The general feeling I get from GT5 is that it is a game that was developed meticulously for 5-6 years (that's why some parts work so good) and it was assembled hastingly in a month before release. That's the main reason I think for most of the bugs, bad menus and curious design choices. That is bad project management any way you look at it.

(By the way: That's a great photo! 👍)

 

[Zer0]

but why nobody at PD bothered to delete the pre-baked fake-shadow under the car. They are not needed since they have a dynamic shadow system,

Is still needed for track shadow zones and because the day changes/dynamic weather(low light/cloudy sky/mist).

Anyway a fade effect is present for that type of shadow in the game, you just needs to jump higher to get rid off them completely. They can not program a real time global illumination shadow system in PS3, maybe in PS4...

Still looks very convincing ingame, and even the car shadow is projected into the volumetric smoke. I would not call that a "lack of care", I doubt many games out there achieve that level of detail.

 

[DA__dogg]

It gets fun at the start then gets boringg

I agree. I had a blast working my way up to the endurance series in both A and B spec. Now I'm at the point were I have to grind endlessly. It's pretty bad when I'd rather grind in B spec to get to level 35 for the x2010 than grind the Indy 500 or the Grand Valley Speedway event to get to level 30 just for the opportunity to try the Vettel challenge. Don't get me wrong I love this game but the career mode xp putout could have been thought out more in my opinion.

 

[imprezzakc]

Do you guys honestly think that these cars would actually just drive off after some of theese high speed physically impossible perfect jumps/flight times ?

 

[Devedander]

- There is pressure from Sony to deliver a high quality game, and the team at Polyphony Digital understand the implications of their work – it has potential to move many PlayStation 3 consoles for the company.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5s-weather-conditions-still-in-limbo/

That particular statement is an editorial comment and does not necessarily conflict with Kaz being a part of the Sony that agrees GT5 needs to come out soon.

Most of us are used to a mindset of "us" "them" and not used to wearing two hats at once, one of which technically supercedes the other so it may be hard to comprehend how such a situation can exist where one of your jobs pressures your other job to do something when you run both.

That still doesn't mean you pressured youreslf, that means that acting as boss of entity 1 you have made a decision that dictates in part how you will run entitity 2.

And when they say "Sony" they mean SCEI, not Sony corporation (which handles everything from PCs, Tvs, Healthcare Equipment and who knows what including video games). As far as Sony corporation is concerned, they want all their products to release ASAP and top notch, but one video game (even a biggie like GT) is not on the radar of the high ups at Sony Corp.

Again, imagine taxi scenario - you, as Owner of taxi company, decide all taxies must refill gas tanks at half full so as to reduce risk of running out of gas while running a customer somewhere.

You as taxi driver dislike this personally because it means wasting your time filling up more often instead of drving customers, but you do it becuase you as boss realized and made the decision to do so.

As far as Sony corp are concerned, in this analogy they would be "World Transportations Inc" or something that handles 400 taxi companies in 20 countries (including yours), high speed and personal rail all over the world, freight shipping, cruise liners, etc etc and as such would not ever come into contact with how one taxi company mandates it's gas refills.

 

[birksy82]

Do you guys honestly think that these cars would actually just drive off after some of theese high speed physically impossible perfect jumps/flight times ?

I do it all of the time in my real car, you want to try it it's great fun

 

[CAG_Theory]

Im satisfied so far, well not that i used to play its older sequels before. Still good as a game

 

[sebbemann]

Apart from the jaggies, my only issue so far is it seems too easy and would appear to be quite short, I'm not that far in but that's the impression I get.
GT4 seemed like it would take forever to "complete" while this looks feasible to do so in a reasonably short amount of time!

Like someone else here, I have to comment on this. Short game? It takes forever. Let me tell you! Because of the stupid lvl system you have to be lvl 40 to finish every race. I takes days, months, maybe years of grinding to complete it. I mean, where is the fun in that? Why couldn't PD just stick with the lisence tests so that every race was available when you have completed all the lisence tests. GT life i broken.

 

[Zer0]

That particular statement is an editorial comment and does not necessarily conflict with Kaz being a part of the Sony that agrees GT5 needs to come out soon.

Most of us are used to a mindset of "us" "them" and not used to wearing two hats at once, one of which technically supercedes the other so it may be hard to comprehend how such a situation can exist where one of your jobs pressures your other job to do something when you run both.

That still doesn't mean you pressured youreslf, that means that acting as boss of entity 1 you have made a decision that dictates in part how you will run entitity 2.

And when they say "Sony" they mean SCEI, not Sony corporation (which handles everything from PCs, Tvs, Healthcare Equipment and who knows what including video games). As far as Sony corporation is concerned, they want all their products to release ASAP and top notch, but one video game (even a biggie like GT) is not on the radar of the high ups at Sony Corp.

Again, imagine taxi scenario - you, as Owner of taxi company, decide all taxies must refill gas tanks at half full so as to reduce risk of running out of gas while running a customer somewhere.

You as taxi driver dislike this personally because it means wasting your time filling up more often instead of drving customers, but you do it becuase you as boss realized and made the decision to do so.

As far as Sony corp are concerned, in this analogy they would be "World Transportations Inc" or something that handles 400 taxi companies in 20 countries (including yours), high speed and personal rail all over the world, freight shipping, cruise liners, etc etc and as such would not ever come into contact with how one taxi company mandates it's gas refills.

I remember in an earlier interview you showed me your business card as a Sony employee, and told me that it had no meaning for you as you had virtually no say in the governing board. That the company was all that mattered. What is your relationship with Sony?

KY: The most important people in my life and close work are of course the employees of Polyphony. We are like a family. On the other hand, some people at Sony helped me, and help them grow professionally also. And those people, my work and my devotion I’m happy to give all I can.


Have you had or have any kind of pressure from Sony in any aspect of the game including launch dates, content, etc?

KY: Not in content, but really the pressure, if we can call it that, of the delivery dates are sometimes difficult to bear.

https://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-interview-reveals-more-on-gt5-development/

 

[machschnel]

Have you had or have any kind of pressure from Sony in any aspect of the game including launch dates, content, etc?

KY: Not in content, but really the pressure, if we can call it that, of the delivery dates are sometimes difficult to bear.

https://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-interview-reveals-more-on-gt5-development/

How can one complain about the pressures involved in getting a game out on time, when you've been developing it for 5 years? What were Sony meant to do?

 

[Devedander]

I remember in an earlier interview you showed me your business card as a Sony employee, and told me that it had no meaning for you as you had virtually no say in the governing board. That the company was all that mattered. What is your relationship with Sony?

KY: The most important people in my life and close work are of course the employees of Polyphony. We are like a family. On the other hand, some people at Sony helped me, and help them grow professionally also. And those people, my work and my devotion I’m happy to give all I can.


Have you had or have any kind of pressure from Sony in any aspect of the game including launch dates, content, etc?

KY: Not in content, but really the pressure, if we can call it that, of the delivery dates are sometimes difficult to bear.

https://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-interview-reveals-more-on-gt5-development/

I am not at all surprised Kaz doesn't do much on the governing board of SCEI as his focus is obviously on his section (PD) however when it comes to making big decisions, his name still says Senior VP SCEI next to it and that means, regardless of how little input he has on overall functions of SCEI, there aren't many people who can just override him.

Again, while he may feel pressure to meet release dates desired by SCEI, he sits on the board that come up with those dates. He may not like them personally, but as a Senior VP, he is a part of the decision making process so they are ultimately (in large part) his decisions.

In fact the reason GT5 has taken so long to come out is undoubatly largely due to his position and ability to demand more time. However even he has to eventually come around and the business side of him has to ultimately overrule his personal project side.