Is anyone else disappointed with GT5?

[Slurm]

Well, you just described every version of Forza. Do they all suck too?

Maybe they do. It also describes every version of GT. I don't care if Forza apparently does that - how irrelevant. The point is it's one of the biggest flaws of THIS game.

I don't get why License / "Special" events should be the only ones that are challenging. None of these are actual races anyway - they're just a repeat of Prologue's "get past 15 moving obstacles in x laps" format.

Anyway the point is, the game makers should have prepared an event that is possible, but difficult; challenging but with some sort of enjoyable flow - surely that's their job as game designers. Right now it's just "Here's yer homework kids, read this book and write something about it, as much or little as you feel like, and yeah just cheat if you really wanna secure a pass."

It's just the same old story as GT4. The "racing" part is too lacking because they haven't set up conditions that favour a good hard race... I don't have much problem with the reactive intelligence of the AI, but I think their actual pace is terribly configured - trying to dice with them is a confusing + bad experience - braking on the exits of turns etc, and the next second going impossibly fast. Even the original TOCA games had far better flow to the racing, albeit basic.

Online could've saved it, but the system is not great... at all. It's a random lottery that occasionally provides some fun. I've been playing this game quite a lot, but it's turned into the same familiar experience as all the other iterations (ie. I end up just driving nice cars in the nice physics engine, which eventually gets lonely and boring).

 

[Tenacious D]

Maybe they do. It also describes every version of GT. I don't care if Forza apparently does that - how irrelevant. The point is it's one of the biggest flaws of THIS game.

I think you're missing what Deve said, and my response both.

Grabbing a car unless it's in a one make race is going to be a crapshoot, if the game is fairly realistic. You can make a gut level guess that Car B which is lighter and less powerful might be competitive with Cars A, C and D which are more powerful but also heavier. So you try it, and if you're wrong, what do you do? Deve keeps saying "So when you mess with these cars, it takes a while to get things sorted." Well duh. You take cars with dissimilar characteristics, and then you throw even more variables into the mix with modifications, and you expect this to get equalized in two minutes? Best of luck, but trial and error is an indeterminate process. Racing leagues and teams take hella more time than a few hours to homologate vehicles.

And yes, it would be nice if PD would have more balance, challenge, whatever. So if it isn't for us right now, what are your options?

• Fuss with GT5 and figure something out that satisfies you.
• Race online for a while.
• Throw it against the wall and go to other racers.
• Take up birdwatching.

Personally, I tried bullet point one because my PC sims just don't satisfy me, and neither does Forza. I can't seem to get online to work well for me, either because the physics or the other racers are frooked. So I find ways to make GT5 a thrill. Amazingly, I don't waste days that Deve seems to messing with my cars. I race. If I blow the bots away, I jingle my earnings and town down my car some, and it's usually not an ordeal to find a fun balance so I win more than half the time. And I get to save replays that will be cool Photo Mode opportunities.

In the words of Kevin Butler, "If I'm wrong, I don't want to be right."

 

[CarreraGT]

AI times are not used in qualifying because CM knew the AI was weak. Qualifying in F1 2010 is nothing but time trial with cars on the track.

That's fine, as long as there is a time to beat it makes absolutely no difference whether the AI are actually setting times or not.

Better than having no qualifying

 

[redhed17]

Surely it can't be that hard to make the cars in a race accelerate and drive at their maximum speed, or at least close to it (even is a real race there would be differences between drivers after all). Add that to a half decent AI and maybe you're close to what people want. You just have to do a one make race to see bad the cars can drive in relation to their performance. There will always be a couple which go a lot slower than all the others, and the rest of them will be very spread out. Maybe it is a way to limit the number of cars on screen at one time.

If you could choose your opponents too, then you could have the races you want. Top Gear in the UK had a Ferrari F40 up against a Porsche 959 this week, it would be nice to set that type race yourself in the game. I know there isn't any proper Porsches in the game to set up that race btw but you get the point. Maybe not give huge credits for that type of race, because people could just race a Ferrari against a field of Mini's for example and clean up, the benefit you got from this race was the actual race itself, not the credit amount. You wouldn't get the odd random overpowered car suddenly appearing after you have tried to match your car to the opposition too. Just an idea.

 

[msako]

The challenge is taking a less powerful car and beating the AI. You have to match your skill to the competition and that involves handicapping yourself, positive or negative, depending on how quick you are.

That's exactly my point. AI drivers should be able to drive any car close to the performance limit of that car, otherwise where's the challenge? If that is too fast for you, you should be able to select an easier difficulty setting which changes which cars you race against, ala GT5 Prologue

 

[Slurm]

I don't know what point I missed Tenacious D, but apologies if I did. I was just referring to the age-old process of trying to make racing in Gran Turismo interesting by self-imposed restrictions, which I thought was being discussed.

The only instance I have truly enjoyed racing in an A-spec event, was the time I was forced to use a 550hp Camaro to beat Chaparral 2J's and Toyota 7's in the Historic cup. I loved it. With their huge power/weight and downforce advantage, the AI's pace was just about right and I was able to win after many FUN attempts where my natural, human pace and rhythm through the corners wasn't constantly broken by unexpected hesitation/brake-testing. I wish it were always like this...

So, how hard can it be to play-test events, log the data and plot natural braking zones and speed through apexes and exits, and then make sure the AI does something similar, whilst setting a good pace?

Anyway Tenacious D, I know you are just trying to be nice and look on the bright side, but I'm already movin on to birdwatching. I was just here as a last call to find some fellow humans who shared my annoyance with the heart to express it!

The challenge is taking a less powerful car and beating the AI. You have to match your skill to the competition and that involves handicapping yourself, positive or negative, depending on how quick you are.

Why should we have to do this and set up these crazy circumstances to get a "challenge"? Why can't the game designers prepare a race that goes at a good pace? The real fun of racing is 4 or 5 perfect laps with the same 2 or 3 opponents practically glued to each other.. A small mistake costs you a position, but you slot in behind and you wait for the favour to be returned, watching for that slightly wide line or bit of wheel-spin... As I said before - the prologue/seasonal format challenge of hot-lapping through 11-15 slow moving objects is not the same! and nor is self-imposed power handicaps.

 

[CERBERA_LM]

How easy would it be to program each car to to fully utilise the gear ratios for each track, making them quicker? That would be a start. Each computer car just simply uses the stock settings that are on the car when we buy them. They could even apply this to downforce and suspension settings, don't think it would be that difficult to program in, do you? I've thought this since GT1. I know it's difficult to program AI in race games but they should try this at least.

 

[spunwicked]

I am so disappointed with GT5.

I can't believe they used the 3 on 3 tag style of gameplay. I felt so cheated loading it up, waiting for ages on the menu screens.

And I can't believe how rubbish Ryu looks in this, SFIV had the art direction right.

I might just snap the disc and sent the BBC the bill. Capcom don't listen to the fans.

Etc, etc...

EDIT: Sorry - right attitude, wrong gaming forum.

 

[dpixel8]

I think beyond EVERY other issue that people are complaining about, the biggest one is that PD is doing the oposite of what they SHOULD be doing: Listening to the BUYERS of this "game", and fixing what needs to be fixed and allowing us to play it how WE want to play it.

I've purchased every GT game since the franchise started, and I won't purchase another one.

 

[Big Ron]

How easy would it be to program each car to to fully utilise the gear ratios for each track, making them quicker? That would be a start. Each computer car just simply uses the stock settings that are on the car when we buy them. They could even apply this to downforce and suspension settings, don't think it would be that difficult to program in, do you? I've thought this since GT1. I know it's difficult to program AI in race games but they should try this at least.

A full event-creator/ manager would be the better feature. Most events start to be ridiculous, because the field of cars is so unrealistic mixed and most cars do not fit to the next one.

 

[Obli]

The AI cars:

• brake too early for corners
• are too cautious when cornering and have slow exit speed
• are too cautious when overtaking

This results in slow (and boring) opponents if cars are all the same. I hope PD make further AI improvements. The recent AI improvements in 1.06 do seem to break up the AI train of cars - there seems to be more overtaking activity and a more human feel to the opponents (they make some mistakes). However, they are still SLOW.

We should be able to choose opponent ability (as can kind of be done on arcade races). The very best AI setting should be able to compete with the best humans in the same car.

Thank God for online, because offline racing in GT5 (A-spec and Arcade) is extremely dull.

 

[msako]

There is no way for the game to know if you are quick or not. I am not sure how they would ever figure that out. I guess they could look at your license golds and figure out if you're lame or not but that might not necessarily be a good measure of quickness. I think it is on the burden of the player to calibrate his speed.

I don't know what point I missed Tenacious D, but apologies if I did. I was just referring to the age-old process of trying to make racing in Gran Turismo interesting by self-imposed restrictions, which I thought was being discussed.

The only instance I have truly enjoyed racing in an A-spec event, was the time I was forced to use a 550hp Camaro to beat Chaparral 2J's and Toyota 7's in the Historic cup. I loved it. With their huge power/weight and downforce advantage, the AI's pace was just about right and I was able to win after many FUN attempts where my natural, human pace and rhythm through the corners wasn't constantly broken by unexpected hesitation/brake-testing. I wish it were always like this...

So, how hard can it be to play-test events, log the data and plot natural braking zones and speed through apexes and exits, and then make sure the AI does something similar, whilst setting a good pace?

Anyway Tenacious D, I know you are just trying to be nice and look on the bright side, but I'm already movin on to birdwatching. I was just here as a last call to find some fellow humans who shared my annoyance with the heart to express it!



Why should we have to do this and set up these crazy circumstances to get a "challenge"? Why can't the game designers prepare a race that goes at a good pace? The real fun of racing is 4 or 5 perfect laps with the same 2 or 3 opponents practically glued to each other.. A small mistake costs you a position, but you slot in behind and you wait for the favour to be returned, watching for that slightly wide line or bit of wheel-spin... As I said before - the prologue/seasonal format challenge of hot-lapping through 11-15 slow moving objects is not the same! and nor is self-imposed power handicaps.

 

[SavageEvil]

I am disappointed and still enjoying the game, I don't even play offline. Once I made it to level 30 I stopped as the only reason it's there to me is to net me some quick cash in a pinch. I made the best of what they gave me, I do wish that PD would seriously give the AI a boost. Why is it the AI only drives top tier race cars hard? Why don't the add difficulty settings to A Spec just like in arcade mode, what in the hell is so hard in that? Also the AI should mod their cars to match your cars' PP the instant you are in a car and before you enter the race in order to remain competitive. If you make changes that increase you PP, they should follow suit restricted by their said vehicles limitations.

As I said I don't play offline because I prefer to race real people as they are not as forgiving as AI and will drive to their utmost limits and plus they can also speak. Since the latest update I have been tuning crazy, buying lots of cars and tuning them. Loads of fun, much more rewarding that racing the AI. Still online needs some tweaking, like the short cut penalties need to be reworked. Some of them give you a penalty even though where you accidentally went could never gain you any time. Penalties should be separate, collision and short cut penalties should be enabled independently. Drive train should also be added to the race restrictions and the biggest one, should also be allowed to restrict races to production cars, special cars(concepts and such), race modded cars, tuner modded and race cars. Nothing more annoying that being in a room clearly stating street cars and someone decides to enter a R390 Road Car, or a PD Tuned LM Car. I know it's there, because when you play arcade mode the AI can tell the type of car you have, so there has to be a flag for it.

While I have serious ought against some things PD did in GT5, I am still enjoying the game, especially online. I wish that some of the people who enter a room and people are having fun talking and not bothering you, don't start complaining, just leave. Had this happen yesterday, some older guy came into the room I was in for like 3 hours and was complaining because we were cutting up and just having fun and still racing very competitively and fairly. His comments " what is school out already?" I hate that sort of crap, what makes you so much of a big man? The fact that you don't know how to enjoy yourself? Get over yourselves, just find another room or just mute everyone except for the host. We play games for fun and enjoyment, nothing more, having a bad day leave that in your house. One guy in our room had a death recently and was online playing to relax and our cutting up and having fun he actually thanked us for making him laugh, we didn't know about the death until he thanked us. Strange but it's not always about being serious to the point of inane, live it up.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I'm Very dissapointed with this game!

* Stupid AI
Proof:

Thats me beating supercars with a 250 hp CR-Z. Yes I am on racing softs and have done all the mods up to 250 hp but I should not be able to do that! I own all the cars that are in that race and I know for a fact that I would destroy my CR-Z without even trying to hard in stock trim. The second lap of that race shows best what is wrong with the AI. I'm talking about the corner where I overtake the car in first place. How can they not program an mr car to outcorner and accellerate an ff car? *Mind is blown*

I can understand that it would be hard to create the perfect AI but the way they take the corners is just sad... Maybe they should allow us to race against our own b-spec drivers in a future update?

* Grinding
Grinding would not be a problem if we had some better AI. Online isnt any help because It take's to long to find a good race and all my friends play cod so no help there either. And then when you find a good race and win it you only get a fraction of the cr. you get from doing the 3 minute indy grind. I don't have all the time in the world (work, school, social life...)

* Stupid prize cars, Why would I do a 3+/- championship to win a car that I can buy in the ucd for less then 100k cr.? And the car I have to use in that championship costs about 5m cr.!!!!

* Bad choices when it comes to premium cars. I will admit that alot of them are stunning, but I just can't understand why they made some of them premium ( I-mev whatever, that small mazda thing, prius OMWTF??? and more cars like that). For those 3 the could have done a primium gt40, veyron (I hate that car but stil...) and a countach.

And how about some newer cars? We all know about the problems with getting porsche to GT but they could have atleast added a newer premium ruf! And why no rs4? Scirocco? rs5? Pretty sure opel is still making cars! Maybe a premium truck? Premium fgt?

I do prefer to use the cockpit view but thats not the reason I wan't some of these cars to be premium. I did expect there to be a premium car available for every race in the game. That way you could kind of get the premium experience .

There is alot more (cosmetic mods, leaderbords, updates that downgrade the game, etc..) but I will leave it this for now.

ps: sorry for the bad english

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I'm Very dissapointed with this game!

* Stupid AI
Proof:

Thats me beating supercars with a 250 hp CR-Z. Yes I am on racing softs and have done all the mods up to 250 hp but I should not be able to do that! ...

What tires were the AI using? Soft racing tires in a lot of cases in better than HP. People found that out when PD lifted tire restrictions in seasonal events. Ultimately tires wins races.
Maybe it was a mistake for PD to put 9 levels of tires in GT5 since everyone wants to race with only soft racing tires on street cars which happens to be the biggest upgrade you can put on street cars. While the AI could be faster yet putting soft racing tires on a street car already stack the deck against the AI. This would be like complaining the AI is easy to beat in other race games when using the rewind feature.

 

[Slurm]

Maybe it was a mistake for PD to put 9 levels of tires in GT5 since everyone wants to race with only soft racing tires on street cars which happens to be the biggest upgrade you can put on street cars.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't enjoy the game online. Only 1% of people are interested in using anything but racing-soft tyres. Totally overwhelms the physics and makes for lousy, frantic racing.

 

[VolkswagenX]

What tires were the AI using? Soft racing tires in a lot of cases in better than HP. People found that out when PD lifted tire restrictions in seasonal events. Ultimately tires wins races.
Maybe it was a mistake for PD to put 9 levels of tires in GT5 since everyone wants to race with only soft racing tires on street cars which happens to be the biggest upgrade you can put on street cars. While the AI could be faster yet putting soft racing tires on a street car already stack the deck against the AI. This would be like complaining the AI is easy to beat in other race games when using the rewind feature.

Like I said before, I own all the cars in that race and they would destroy my CR-Z. All of them are stock with sports hard tires. Just because I'm on racing softs doesn't mean that a california goes around a corner like a grandma. But if you don't believe then try doing the gt world championship (professional series in A-spec) with a stock gt300 car and go to the nurburgring. I used a stock c-west razo silvia (racing hard tires and about 297 hp) and was beating race cars that were using racing tires and had alot more hp then me! The first few corners seem close but at the end of the race I had a very big lead (can't remember how much but I have the replay saved and will upload it if you don't believe me).

Don't make excuses for the bad AI.

 

[CarreraGT]

The challenge is taking a less powerful car and beating the AI. You have to match your skill to the competition and that involves handicapping yourself, positive or negative, depending on how quick you are.

Yes, we have established that. What I'm saying is if I wanted to have a realistic race between, say, a Corvette ZR-1 and a Lamborghini LP-640, I couldn't because the AI is hopeless.

So you're saying the solution is to race a Honda Civic against a Lamborghini LP-640... Kind of defies the "ultimate driving simulator" tag doesn't it. Do you see my point?

 

[VolkswagenX]

This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't enjoy the game online. Only 1% of people are interested in using anything but racing-soft tyres. Totally overwhelms the physics and makes for lousy, frantic racing.

I really wished there were more rooms online wich had restriction that made race fun and balenced. Most of the rooms online only have the hp restriction but no weight restriction. The result is that everybody is in a superlight race car with less hp then stock.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Another thing PD should not forget is that alot of casual gamers bought gt games and without those people GT5 would not have sold as much as it did. Alot of these people are not on forums like gtplanet. Looking at my friends lists I can see alot of them have GT5 (most of them bought it at launch) and all of them are at about 40-50% completion.

The first GT games sold alot because there was nothing much better on the consoles but now people have alot of choices. I know gt5 has sold alot but I think GT6 will sell less unless they made huge improvements (having 2000 cars won't cut it!).

The hardcore GT fan won't make PD enough money to fund future GT games and they should really start thinking about the casual gamer while still keeping the hardcore GT fan happy. GT has physics and graphics but alot of other games do better in the fun department

 

[Vend1go]

No one are dissapointed with GT5 if they like racing games , this is best game ever and stop whining and trolling OMG!!!

 

[DRambo]

I would try a different car if you think its too easy. I am trying to do this now and it is creating a new appreciation for this franchise.

Yes I do this. But that's not my point. The DTM races are an example of the few events that are restricted in A-spec. It is far too easy.

On the point of using different cars; do I really want to have to race in slow cars on low performance tyres, just to remain at the same level as the AI? No, I want to race cars of the same class against each other, but you can't because the AI is so slow. There needs to be some sort of difficulty setting perhaps, rather than everything having to be self-imposed performance restrictions.

 

[Tired Tyres]

No one are dissapointed with GT5 if they like racing games , this is best game ever and stop whining and trolling OMG!!!

Don't try and speak for others. I like racing games and I'm disappointed with GT5. Not with the driving though, just the shockingly short GT-Mode.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

No one are dissapointed with GT5 if they like racing games , this is best game ever and stop whining and trolling OMG!!!

Love it when people say if you don't like GT5, you don't like cars or racing. Hate to break to you, but there are actually people out there who don't think GT5 is the most amazing thing ever.

 

[Vend1go]

Don't try and speak for others. I like racing games and I'm disappointed with GT5. Not with the driving though, just the shockingly short GT-Mode.

Then go play online ...

 

[Vend1go]

Love it when people say if you don't like GT5, you don't like cars or racing. Hate to break to you, but there are actually people out there who don't think GT5 is the most amazing thing ever.

Well its racing game yes?
And becauze its racing game , its need to be realistic right?
So , Gt5 is almost best simulated racing game , it gives us reality .
So if you like racing or cars i think you must like gt5 , becauze its best simulation game in nowa days. :S

Thats only my opinion

 

[redhed17]

Well its racing game yes?
And becauze its racing game , its need to be realistic right?
So , Gt5 is almost best simulated racing game , it gives us reality .
So if you like racing or cars i think you must like gt5 , becauze its best simulation game in nowa days. :S

Thats only my opinion

You're more than welcome to your opinion, just like everyone else. 👍

I would say GT is maybe the best 'driving simulation' game, but not the best 'racing' game, for many of the points throughout this thread. And because again of all the points mentioned throughout this thread, I don't think GT5 is the best GT game, never mind being the best driving game.

They're my opinions by the way.

Feel free to disagree.

Oh and if the answer to the game having rubbish AI/racing is to 'go play online', then that doesn't say much for the whole game. They could have put an online version of the game out in six months (especially this poor online implementation), but they have had 5+ years to make this game. and in so many ways this game is not good enough. But again, that's my opinion.

 

[langjie]

you know what else is dumb with the rolling starts...the camera that follows you and then all of a sudden it's time to start...out of nowhere. have the wrong gear ratios and you're already redlining before you're ready

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Like I said before, I own all the cars in that race and they would destroy my CR-Z. All of them are stock with sports hard tires. Just because I'm on racing softs doesn't mean that a california goes around a corner like a grandma.

Again in GT5 there is a huge difference between hard sport vs soft racing. Now is this realistic, probably not as I doubt street cars would be glue that much to the road even with racing tires.

But if you don't believe then try doing the gt world championship (professional series in A-spec) with a stock gt300 car and go to the nurburgring. I used a stock c-west razo silvia (racing hard tires and about 297 hp) and was beating race cars that were using racing tires and had alot more hp then me! The first few corners seem close but at the end of the race I had a very big lead (can't remember how much but I have the replay saved and will upload it if you don't believe me).

Don't make excuses for the bad AI.

It's hard to take you serious when you use a example where you have a huge advantage over the AI. Now if you are a good driver and know the track you shouldn't have any problem beating any AI in any game on equal terms especially at the Ring. In every racing game I've play the AI always has certain corners I can easily out brake them. The Ring would be the hardest track for the AI since there are so many corners.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Again in GT5 there is a huge difference between hard sport vs soft racing. Now is this realistic, probably not as I doubt street cars would be glue that much to the road even with racing tires.
It's hard to take you serious when you use a example where you have a huge advantage over the AI. Now if you are a good driver and know the track you shouldn't have any problem beating any AI in any game on equal terms especially at the Ring. In every racing game I've play the AI always has certain corners I can easily out brake them. The Ring would be the hardest track for the AI since there are so many corners.

You're being silly now. I agree on always having an advantage over the AI but you missed the point. I'm in a racecar with about 300 HP and racing hardst racing " other racecars with double the HP and racetires".

You're acting like the AI in this game is normal but GT5 is the only racing game with AI this bad that I know of.